i don't know dottie. we have a family story -- aliens visited 2 of my brothers. they were short grey with those yucky black eyes. one put a device up one of my brother's nose (he doesn't have two noses, i mean just one of my brothers). everytime he got a nose bleed after that we knew why.
and one time sister theresa appeared standing at thebottom of my sister's bed. that may have been like an angel or something because we kids were having a very very hard time in life.
For ages, in every millienia, some christian church leader has pointed at a world dominating figure and said "he is the anti-Christ". And we're still here....
"Aliens"?????? JAL? or maybe Bedard...once did a teaching. The essence of it was:
"Jesus is God's redemtion of man, EVERYTHING else is man trying to save himself, and because man's ego refuses to have faith in God he will look elsewhere for salvation, even to the stars"
Mankind is not going to save itself... sorry to all of the "ologists" out there but there will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be the people that don't want to "play by the rules", they're gonna steal, kill, rape, pillage, and plunder... spiritual influence? or just sick? who REALLY knows for sure??? NO ONE!! You either have faith in what the Bible says or you try to make up your own philosophical explaination to satisfy yourself. EITHER WAY you are accepting a set of beliefs.
SOOOOOOOO ??? little green men???? I doubt it!!!
NOW.... end of the world/return of Jesus??? YOU BET!!! I believe the "Thessalonians" ending myself. With that as a given..... HOW ELSE will the "media" explain a disapperance of, probably MILLIONS of people from the earth. And depending on the way it happens.... those "left behind" may very well SEE and WITNESS "us" change, rise, and meet Jesus and each other in the air.
HOW YA GONNA EXPLAIN THAT ONE.... Dan? Peter? Tom?Barbara? (if they're still here, they may not be)
Me personally.... YEAH the stage is being set, the players are being cast, the systems are being invented, the technology is being developed, THE SEEDS ARE BEING SOWN, for the biggest CON since Eve heard "ye shall not surely die!"
Dot: Let me put it this way, I don't think we'll see any aliens in our lifetime. There's a famous equation in the search for extraterrestrial life called the Drake Equation, which deals exactly with this question. It's fairly straightforward as math goes: (paraphrased from http://www.seti-inst.edu/science/drake-bg.html )
The equation is usually written: N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L
Where,
N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.
R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.
fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.
ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.
fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.
fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.
fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.
L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.
That's 9th-grade Algebra I. The problem is that no one has an accurate value for ANY of the terms of the equation. (In other words, your guess is as good as theirs.)
Although our instruments have gotten good enough to detect extrasolar planets (check out the stars 55 Cancri or Upsilon Andromedae for two examples) the only ones we can detect at this point are Jupiter-sized and larger. There are quite a few of those out there, so we have some places to look. Unfortunately, some of these planets are so massive and in the wrong place that they rule out finding any type of Earth-similar life in those whole solar systems.
There's a very thin orbital band around stars in which life as we know it can fluorish. This is called the stellar habitable zone, and Earth just happens to be smack in the middle of the Sun's.(more or less) Venus is too close, and Mars is on the outer fringe of the zone--life is just barely theoretically possible there. Every other planet in our solar system is either baked by the Sun or frozen. In the solar systems outside our own, some of the discovered planets wreck the habitable zone because they're so big they can't support life themselves, and their gravity would attract and destroy smaller planets in the zone. In short, nearly all of the extrasolar planetary systems we've found so far are sterile.
(It's big, but well worth the wait.) This is a picture of a dinky little galaxy in Draco from the new Hubble Advanced Camera for Surveys. Beautiful shot, no? "Yeah, but what am I looking for, Zix?"
Look at the other stars in the photo. Count them. (Hint: It shouldn't take long, there's less than 10 visible.) I'll wait...
[twiddles fingers, hums]
Don't tell me you found almost six thousand? There really are less than ten stars visible in that picture. (They're the ones with the diffraction "spikes" on them.)
EVERYTHING else apart from those 6-7 stars (and the big galaxy in the middle, of course) is another separate galaxy. There are 6,000 galaxies in this one picture of a tiny, tiny portion of the sky. "Ho-lee ....." And that shot was picked more or less at random for the new camera. They knew the big Tadpole Galaxy was there, but had no clue they'd find 6,000 others by sheer accident.
With all those galaxies there just has to be life elsewhere, right? Well, it turns out that there is not only a stellar habitable zone in each solar system, there's a galactic habitable zone in each galaxy, outside of which your whole solar system has little chance of surviving long enough for any possible habitable planets to generate a civilization. That cuts the probability way down again.
The final reason why we won't see aliens in our lifetime is because of the sheer distances involved. There might be Denebian Slime Devils after all, but unless they started riding a light-beam 1500 YEARS ago, we'll never see them. Even our closest neighbor is 4 years away at the speed of light. (They're just now getting baseball broadcasts from 1998...) Since we can't come anywhere close to the speed of light, we can't even go next door to see if anyone's home at Alpha Centauri.
Still, we keep listening for new signals in the hopes that we'll get HBO-Galactic. You can help, if you like. There's a project called SETI@Home ( http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ) that you can download a screensaver from. When active, the screensaver processes data from radio telescopes searching for any type of non-natural signal. Who knows? Your computer's idle time just may be the key to finding those little green men after all...
I'm not holding my breath.
Fiat lux!
Zixar
[This message was edited by Zixar on July 19, 2002 at 8:09.]
I Live in oddball cult central, one of my neighbors builds his life around the existence of extraterrestrials (however you spell it) to come to save us with their superior wisdom. Knows all the planets they are from,the sightings, blah blah infinity-- meanwhile his wife and children have left him and his life has fallen into a huge mess. Some superior wisdom he as there.
(Different cult, different 'beliefs' same results)
Another cultish group (Starseed) believes they are actually descended from aliens, they have an online test somewhere to see if you are one of 'them'. The way some people that I know act I wonder if they are from outer space .
Personally I pretty much have my plate full with my own life and the few people I know . Thats enough without thinking about fantasy beings from space of whatever kind. If they are out there -fine. If they're not out there fine. Doesnt have much impact on my life either way.
If one landed across the street, I wouldnt run across the street to meet them (unless their vehicle was really cool) but on the otherhand if they came to my door Id invite them in for a beer if they acted reasonable and didnt have tracts for me to read or green cards
for me to sign.
As far as beliefs - well at this time it is my firm belief that I should hold no firm beliefs. At least not too firm> They always seem to cloud my judgement in matters temporal or eternal.(See "The Way International")
Direct experience will have to suffice for now, and in this matter I have none.
I don`t know........just because the bible doesn`t see fit to mention life on other planets or planets being suitable for our habitation.......does not necessarily make them non existant.
There are LOTS of areas, this is but one... that the bible doesn`t cover specifically.
I have a neighbor,,.....a retired methodist minister has a very interesting *take* on it all.
He believes that the stars are out there for us to reach for.....he believes that it`s God`s intention that we be fruitfull and multiply..and spread beyond the confines of this particular planet.........and why not?
He figures it is only a matter of time before we advance technologically enough to accomplish this.
Right or wrong, what I am trying to say is......we don`t KNOW where we are headed....if there are habitable planets....or future bretheren that we are unaware of at present.
Think about it....when God gave the *word* to the judeans.......if you would have tried to tell THEM what advancements would be made in the future......the different continents (worlds) they would spread to .....that THEIR decendants would fly through the air to reach their destinations....
That they would be able to speak/ send images instantaneously a world away.....that one day be able to float in space above this planet....heck microwave ovens .......refridgerators.... AIRCONDITIONING even!!
Heck they wouldn`t have been able to even accept the idea that the nasty gentiles and dirty heathens were gonna have access to God one day, based on what the sacred scriptures had to say at the time!!!! lol
The Judeans and early christians would never EVER have been able to believe or understand what would was going to be available to the human race .......what God had in store for mankind based simply on what the *scriptures* contained!
Lol......Don`t you see? We don`t know where scientific advancements are going to take us! It is foolish to turn a blind eye to the heavens and what God might have in store for us ....based on what mans *current* understanding of scriptures that were written, and intended for judean tribesman 3000 years ago.
Maybe God is waiting for us to quit fighting amongst ourselves long enough to focus on learning what we need to know (ie grow up) lol to expand further to explore the places, discover the suprises, and possibly even our fellow denesins in this great universe that he has prepared for us!
What I am trying to say is that......We don`t necessarily know WHAT God`s full plan is for the human race or where he intends for us to finally end up before the final *trump* sounds.....not by a LONG shot!
Ok.....so now you KNOW I am certifiable........lol
Lol Good point Zix........that reminds me of my 6 year old when he asks me why he can`t DRIVE yet..........hee hee
I just tell him (much to his annoyance) don`t worry honey......SOMEDAY... you WILL be old enough, and that there is much yet to learn before you are going to be ready to do so safely!
My speculation at work here. It is arrogant beyond all imagination for me to believe that we are the only form of life in the universe. In many ways I feel that we are somewhat incidental to the vast
enormnity which surrounds us. On the other hand I
certainly marvel at the order which exists and
am perfectly willing to believe that a so called
higher order of intellienge set in motion the existence which is the very source of our animation.
But I don't care to talk about n-dimensional space, crop circles, the freakin' Bermuda triangle, or Aztec calendars derived from alien timetables which will one day enable us to fold time so we can return to the "good ole days". Thats interesting to consider on occasion just likes it interesting to argue for or against the trinity (well not really for me but maybe for others).
Just as Way people become consumed with the minutae of verse interpretation and never really get anything accomplished in life, I know other people who have all but abandoned their daily obligations in hopes that there are aliens "out there" who will somehow change things. Both sets of individuals are equally lost in my opinion because they ignore the here and now (and sometimes even their families) which can be a source of tremendous peace. I accept my very,very,very,very small role in this large universe and I like it but I'm not insignificant and neither are you. If it turns out
that we are royalty (son of god with all power) then thats great but I've got things to do NOW in
THIS life, on EARTH which require my focus and attention. I would think that God would appreciate
I used to believe the twi line I was taught: no water except "under the heavens" (read "on earth"), so no life anywhere else.
Then I read C S Lewis' Out of a Silent Planet trilogy.
Now I can admit that I just don't know...and that I have lots of fun thinking about what might be out there besides earthlings...and that my sci fi bend isn't devilish.
Well, TWI was woefully astronomically-ignorant. The Clementine probe found water ice on the south polar region of the Moon, and the Mars Global Surveyor has shot pictures of water vapor clouds on Mars. Also, the Orion Nebula produces enough water in a single day to completely fill all of Earth's oceans.
Then, some of you folks really believe it was a weather balloon at Roswell?
Even President's of the USA have seen UFO's.
I am not a believer or disbeliever...
I don't know.
But people said they saw the small grey's at the Roswell thing and they were reputable. Maybe on earth we have calculated the speed of light as the fastest speed -- but what if there are smarter beings calculating in other ways?
O.K., so we have this reeeeeeally smart bunch of aliens who're flying billions of miles across the universe at something in excess of light speed navigating through asteroid belts, magnetic fields, radiation belts and who knows what all else, only to crash into a telephone pole here on earth - Doh!
Or maybe they just ran out of fuel ("Captain, the dilithium crystals wunt take eet!"), or Bubba and Joe - Bob mistook their craft for game and shot 'em down wiffen their .410, "It shore looked like a possum to me!" Joe - Bob was reported to say.
Yes, people claim to have seen, and subsequently believe in, a lot of things. Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, cold-fusion, even ancient tales from the Bible.
The only problem comes when you try to find any independant, verifiable, corroborating evidence.
I do believe in some concepts that are relatively 'out there'
reincarnation
astrology, (NOT miss cleo, I have a friend who does this)
celtic pagan beliefs really intrigue me..
the list is long and varied...
My mother in law?????
she is very difficult to deal with, she is paranoid to the extreme...blames her heart disease, arthritis, and my CFIDS and FMS on the fact that she has seen me in the craft with her...
As for the major advancements following Roswell, you mentioned Dot.....The same neighbor I spoke of before, Has a friend whos *job* for the government shortly following the roswell incident was to take complicated looking componenets ( it seems to me he said some were damaged)....to different companies, and ask them to investigate and if possible duplicate them.
These companies became big over night with HUGE technological breakthroughs...I can ask him again if you want me to.......which ones they were. Though I recognised the names then, I don`t remember who they were now.
My neighbor was so convinced of his buddies veracity.....he took a week or two`s vacation and started poking around roswell......he found some fascinating evidence that it was more than just a weather balloon.
On Unsolved Mysteries years back they had a now older gentleman who said he was a civilian around Roswell. He was dating a nurse. The nurse was called into the hospital and worked on these "creatures" that had crashed. When she met with her boyfriend she told him she was forbidden to speak of the incident but drew him pictures, on a napkin of the now famous looking big head almond eyed creatures.
Later, she was called back to the hospital and he went to see her and learn about the hoopla. When he got there she, the nurse, told him to leave for his own saftey -- then military men escourted him out of the building.
This woman, the nurse, was never seen again.
On the same show, one guy, now a respected professional said he had a piece of the weird metal like substance found in the field and the military came and collected it from the home.
Another military guy said he was one of the folks "hiding evidence" and he said he also saw these weird unearthly beings.
Now, when I was in TWI I just dismissed everything as a trick of the devil or a TALL TALL story. But now, I dunno.
My Father went through Roswell area and at the museum the same guy talking about the nurse on Unsolved Mysteries, sits there answering questions. My Dad a highly educated retired professional, said the speaker is very compelling.
I alwyas blew off the abductions as "crazies" and even when the medical reports would provide evidence of a strange implant -- I would think through my Way brain and think "devil trick"
But hey, I was tricked by TWI, so maybe these fols are telling the truth as they know it and the WAY was devil happy about anything they could not explain.
As for measuring things by those indicators we are used to , well God has no begining or end. We think in timelines... God has no "time restraints" Perhaps much like we thought the molecule was the smallest measurment, then we discovered the atom...
What if life as we know it is not the only life?
What if measurements are not held by merely the speed of sound or light? What if things can travel by color or something different? Is there anything in the Bible supporting TWI's theory that all planets are out there, and all life is to bless us?
Could be... Or that could be a self centered way to keep your/my thinking "small".
I heard that was a hoax years ago done by men with boards and rope. I mentioned it because in the movie the crop circles where used as directions or landing areas.
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excathedra
what does the word say ?
if the word doesn't tell us we just don't know!!
ha ha ha ha ha ha
i don't know dottie. we have a family story -- aliens visited 2 of my brothers. they were short grey with those yucky black eyes. one put a device up one of my brother's nose (he doesn't have two noses, i mean just one of my brothers). everytime he got a nose bleed after that we knew why.
and one time sister theresa appeared standing at thebottom of my sister's bed. that may have been like an angel or something because we kids were having a very very hard time in life.
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call me "Al"
For ages, in every millienia, some christian church leader has pointed at a world dominating figure and said "he is the anti-Christ". And we're still here....
"Aliens"?????? JAL? or maybe Bedard...once did a teaching. The essence of it was:
"Jesus is God's redemtion of man, EVERYTHING else is man trying to save himself, and because man's ego refuses to have faith in God he will look elsewhere for salvation, even to the stars"
Mankind is not going to save itself... sorry to all of the "ologists" out there but there will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be the people that don't want to "play by the rules", they're gonna steal, kill, rape, pillage, and plunder... spiritual influence? or just sick? who REALLY knows for sure??? NO ONE!! You either have faith in what the Bible says or you try to make up your own philosophical explaination to satisfy yourself. EITHER WAY you are accepting a set of beliefs.
SOOOOOOOO ??? little green men???? I doubt it!!!
NOW.... end of the world/return of Jesus??? YOU BET!!! I believe the "Thessalonians" ending myself. With that as a given..... HOW ELSE will the "media" explain a disapperance of, probably MILLIONS of people from the earth. And depending on the way it happens.... those "left behind" may very well SEE and WITNESS "us" change, rise, and meet Jesus and each other in the air.
HOW YA GONNA EXPLAIN THAT ONE.... Dan? Peter? Tom?Barbara? (if they're still here, they may not be)
Me personally.... YEAH the stage is being set, the players are being cast, the systems are being invented, the technology is being developed, THE SEEDS ARE BEING SOWN, for the biggest CON since Eve heard "ye shall not surely die!"
OH YEAH BABY.....
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Zixar
Dot: Let me put it this way, I don't think we'll see any aliens in our lifetime. There's a famous equation in the search for extraterrestrial life called the Drake Equation, which deals exactly with this question. It's fairly straightforward as math goes: (paraphrased from http://www.seti-inst.edu/science/drake-bg.html )
The equation is usually written: N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L
Where,
N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.
R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.
fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.
ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.
fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.
fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.
fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.
L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.
That's 9th-grade Algebra I. The problem is that no one has an accurate value for ANY of the terms of the equation. (In other words, your guess is as good as theirs.)
Although our instruments have gotten good enough to detect extrasolar planets (check out the stars 55 Cancri or Upsilon Andromedae for two examples) the only ones we can detect at this point are Jupiter-sized and larger. There are quite a few of those out there, so we have some places to look. Unfortunately, some of these planets are so massive and in the wrong place that they rule out finding any type of Earth-similar life in those whole solar systems.
There's a very thin orbital band around stars in which life as we know it can fluorish. This is called the stellar habitable zone, and Earth just happens to be smack in the middle of the Sun's.(more or less) Venus is too close, and Mars is on the outer fringe of the zone--life is just barely theoretically possible there. Every other planet in our solar system is either baked by the Sun or frozen. In the solar systems outside our own, some of the discovered planets wreck the habitable zone because they're so big they can't support life themselves, and their gravity would attract and destroy smaller planets in the zone. In short, nearly all of the extrasolar planetary systems we've found so far are sterile.
There's another problem, too. Click on this link:
http://imgsrc.stsci.edu/op/pubinfo/PR/2002/11/prc/0211ay.jpg
(It's big, but well worth the wait.) This is a picture of a dinky little galaxy in Draco from the new Hubble Advanced Camera for Surveys. Beautiful shot, no? "Yeah, but what am I looking for, Zix?"
Look at the other stars in the photo. Count them. (Hint: It shouldn't take long, there's less than 10 visible.) I'll wait...
[twiddles fingers, hums]
Don't tell me you found almost six thousand? There really are less than ten stars visible in that picture. (They're the ones with the diffraction "spikes" on them.)
EVERYTHING else apart from those 6-7 stars (and the big galaxy in the middle, of course) is another separate galaxy. There are 6,000 galaxies in this one picture of a tiny, tiny portion of the sky. "Ho-lee ....." And that shot was picked more or less at random for the new camera. They knew the big Tadpole Galaxy was there, but had no clue they'd find 6,000 others by sheer accident.
With all those galaxies there just has to be life elsewhere, right? Well, it turns out that there is not only a stellar habitable zone in each solar system, there's a galactic habitable zone in each galaxy, outside of which your whole solar system has little chance of surviving long enough for any possible habitable planets to generate a civilization. That cuts the probability way down again.
The final reason why we won't see aliens in our lifetime is because of the sheer distances involved. There might be Denebian Slime Devils after all, but unless they started riding a light-beam 1500 YEARS ago, we'll never see them. Even our closest neighbor is 4 years away at the speed of light. (They're just now getting baseball broadcasts from 1998...) Since we can't come anywhere close to the speed of light, we can't even go next door to see if anyone's home at Alpha Centauri.
Still, we keep listening for new signals in the hopes that we'll get HBO-Galactic. You can help, if you like. There's a project called SETI@Home ( http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ) that you can download a screensaver from. When active, the screensaver processes data from radio telescopes searching for any type of non-natural signal. Who knows? Your computer's idle time just may be the key to finding those little green men after all...
I'm not holding my breath.
Fiat lux!
Zixar
[This message was edited by Zixar on July 19, 2002 at 8:09.]
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mstar1
Dont know and honestly dont really care.
I Live in oddball cult central, one of my neighbors builds his life around the existence of extraterrestrials (however you spell it) to come to save us with their superior wisdom. Knows all the planets they are from,the sightings, blah blah infinity-- meanwhile his wife and children have left him and his life has fallen into a huge mess. Some superior wisdom he as there.
(Different cult, different 'beliefs' same results)
Another cultish group (Starseed) believes they are actually descended from aliens, they have an online test somewhere to see if you are one of 'them'. The way some people that I know act I wonder if they are from outer space .
Personally I pretty much have my plate full with my own life and the few people I know . Thats enough without thinking about fantasy beings from space of whatever kind. If they are out there -fine. If they're not out there fine. Doesnt have much impact on my life either way.
If one landed across the street, I wouldnt run across the street to meet them (unless their vehicle was really cool) but on the otherhand if they came to my door Id invite them in for a beer if they acted reasonable and didnt have tracts for me to read or green cards
for me to sign.
As far as beliefs - well at this time it is my firm belief that I should hold no firm beliefs. At least not too firm> They always seem to cloud my judgement in matters temporal or eternal.(See "The Way International")
Direct experience will have to suffice for now, and in this matter I have none.
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fasteel
I AM WITH YOU ON THAT ONE AL!
FRED
Fredric Schuster
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rascal
I don`t know........just because the bible doesn`t see fit to mention life on other planets or planets being suitable for our habitation.......does not necessarily make them non existant.
There are LOTS of areas, this is but one... that the bible doesn`t cover specifically.
I have a neighbor,,.....a retired methodist minister has a very interesting *take* on it all.
He believes that the stars are out there for us to reach for.....he believes that it`s God`s intention that we be fruitfull and multiply..and spread beyond the confines of this particular planet.........and why not?
He figures it is only a matter of time before we advance technologically enough to accomplish this.
Right or wrong, what I am trying to say is......we don`t KNOW where we are headed....if there are habitable planets....or future bretheren that we are unaware of at present.
Think about it....when God gave the *word* to the judeans.......if you would have tried to tell THEM what advancements would be made in the future......the different continents (worlds) they would spread to .....that THEIR decendants would fly through the air to reach their destinations....
That they would be able to speak/ send images instantaneously a world away.....that one day be able to float in space above this planet....heck microwave ovens .......refridgerators.... AIRCONDITIONING even!!
Heck they wouldn`t have been able to even accept the idea that the nasty gentiles and dirty heathens were gonna have access to God one day, based on what the sacred scriptures had to say at the time!!!! lol
The Judeans and early christians would never EVER have been able to believe or understand what would was going to be available to the human race .......what God had in store for mankind based simply on what the *scriptures* contained!
Lol......Don`t you see? We don`t know where scientific advancements are going to take us! It is foolish to turn a blind eye to the heavens and what God might have in store for us ....based on what mans *current* understanding of scriptures that were written, and intended for judean tribesman 3000 years ago.
Maybe God is waiting for us to quit fighting amongst ourselves long enough to focus on learning what we need to know (ie grow up) lol to expand further to explore the places, discover the suprises, and possibly even our fellow denesins in this great universe that he has prepared for us!
What I am trying to say is that......We don`t necessarily know WHAT God`s full plan is for the human race or where he intends for us to finally end up before the final *trump* sounds.....not by a LONG shot!
Ok.....so now you KNOW I am certifiable........lol
CathyWs12
CathyWs12
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Zixar
Cathy: Well, maybe... If God does want us to spread to the stars, He might have made it just a bit easier for us to climb out of our playpen...
God bless!
Zix
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rascal
Lol Good point Zix........that reminds me of my 6 year old when he asks me why he can`t DRIVE yet..........hee hee
I just tell him (much to his annoyance) don`t worry honey......SOMEDAY... you WILL be old enough, and that there is much yet to learn before you are going to be ready to do so safely!
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diazbro
My speculation at work here. It is arrogant beyond all imagination for me to believe that we are the only form of life in the universe. In many ways I feel that we are somewhat incidental to the vast
enormnity which surrounds us. On the other hand I
certainly marvel at the order which exists and
am perfectly willing to believe that a so called
higher order of intellienge set in motion the existence which is the very source of our animation.
But I don't care to talk about n-dimensional space, crop circles, the freakin' Bermuda triangle, or Aztec calendars derived from alien timetables which will one day enable us to fold time so we can return to the "good ole days". Thats interesting to consider on occasion just likes it interesting to argue for or against the trinity (well not really for me but maybe for others).
Just as Way people become consumed with the minutae of verse interpretation and never really get anything accomplished in life, I know other people who have all but abandoned their daily obligations in hopes that there are aliens "out there" who will somehow change things. Both sets of individuals are equally lost in my opinion because they ignore the here and now (and sometimes even their families) which can be a source of tremendous peace. I accept my very,very,very,very small role in this large universe and I like it but I'm not insignificant and neither are you. If it turns out
that we are royalty (son of god with all power) then thats great but I've got things to do NOW in
THIS life, on EARTH which require my focus and attention. I would think that God would appreciate
me tending to the business at hand.
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CoolWaters
I used to believe the twi line I was taught: no water except "under the heavens" (read "on earth"), so no life anywhere else.
Then I read C S Lewis' Out of a Silent Planet trilogy.
Now I can admit that I just don't know...and that I have lots of fun thinking about what might be out there besides earthlings...and that my sci fi bend isn't devilish.
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=CoolWaters'>
http://www.imood.com/query.cgi?email=CoolWaters@cox.net'>
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Zixar
Well, TWI was woefully astronomically-ignorant. The Clementine probe found water ice on the south polar region of the Moon, and the Mars Global Surveyor has shot pictures of water vapor clouds on Mars. Also, the Orion Nebula produces enough water in a single day to completely fill all of Earth's oceans.
Bang goes that theory...
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Dot Matrix
Then, some of you folks really believe it was a weather balloon at Roswell?
Even President's of the USA have seen UFO's.
I am not a believer or disbeliever...
I don't know.
But people said they saw the small grey's at the Roswell thing and they were reputable. Maybe on earth we have calculated the speed of light as the fastest speed -- but what if there are smarter beings calculating in other ways?
Dot Matrix
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Kay1952
This is not poking fun at my mother in law--
but--
she says she's been abducted for years...
I never knew what to say...
so I didn't say nothin'...
She has detailed memories...
????????????????
Kay1952
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excathedra
kay i like your attitude
i don't know really
people tell me lots of interesting things and i'm so much more tolerant than when i was a wayfer faking how much i knew
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George Aar
O.K., so we have this reeeeeeally smart bunch of aliens who're flying billions of miles across the universe at something in excess of light speed navigating through asteroid belts, magnetic fields, radiation belts and who knows what all else, only to crash into a telephone pole here on earth - Doh!
Or maybe they just ran out of fuel ("Captain, the dilithium crystals wunt take eet!"), or Bubba and Joe - Bob mistook their craft for game and shot 'em down wiffen their .410, "It shore looked like a possum to me!" Joe - Bob was reported to say.
Yes, people claim to have seen, and subsequently believe in, a lot of things. Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, cold-fusion, even ancient tales from the Bible.
The only problem comes when you try to find any independant, verifiable, corroborating evidence.
That stuff is mighty hard to come by.
geo.
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Zixar
Let's see...
Air Force separated from Army--1947
Transistor invented--1947
Laser invented--1947
Incident at Roswell--oh, just GUESS which year?
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excathedra
1947 ?
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Kay1952
I do believe in some concepts that are relatively 'out there'
reincarnation
astrology, (NOT miss cleo, I have a friend who does this)
celtic pagan beliefs really intrigue me..
the list is long and varied...
My mother in law?????
she is very difficult to deal with, she is paranoid to the extreme...blames her heart disease, arthritis, and my CFIDS and FMS on the fact that she has seen me in the craft with her...
??????????????????
Kay
Kay1952
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WordWolf
I was fascinated with the idea, on & off, when
I was very young. However, since I KEPT reading,
I discarded my original ideas of aliens in
space.
----------
BTW, the crop cirles have pretty well been
documented as the work of a bunch of pranksters.
I don't have their web address handy.
---------
I think Dennis Miller said it best....
"We imagine a race so advanced, so blase, that
they don't even have windows on their spaceships
to look out at the wonder of space as the pass.
Yet, as soon as they arrive on earth, the first
thing they do is grab some yokel & give him an
anal probe.
What deep mystery of the universe could they
possibly expect to find there? Imagine THEIR
disappointment..."
------------
On a lark, I picked up a Weekly World News that
featured a story about an upcoming et Second
Coming of Christ by spaceship.
Before I started to read, I said to myself
"self, if I'm right, somewhere in this story will
be an account where someone's freewill will get
discarded.
I read the article. This woman saw lights in the
sky. So, she did as a "friend" had instructed her,
once...She cleared her mind, dropped its defenses,
& deliberately tried to be receptive to "any
message" they should try to give. The very
next thing she knew, it was hours later, & she has
no memory of the experience.
But,hey, guys, whatever makes you happy.
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rascal
As for the major advancements following Roswell, you mentioned Dot.....The same neighbor I spoke of before, Has a friend whos *job* for the government shortly following the roswell incident was to take complicated looking componenets ( it seems to me he said some were damaged)....to different companies, and ask them to investigate and if possible duplicate them.
These companies became big over night with HUGE technological breakthroughs...I can ask him again if you want me to.......which ones they were. Though I recognised the names then, I don`t remember who they were now.
My neighbor was so convinced of his buddies veracity.....he took a week or two`s vacation and started poking around roswell......he found some fascinating evidence that it was more than just a weather balloon.
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excathedra
what kind of fascinating evidence ? do you know ?
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rascal
I do not remember the specifics....I just remember thinkin *wow.......That IS wierd*
If he is home....I will ask him this morning and get back here....maybe I could talk him into visiting here, and posting his own info.
CathyWs12
P.S That was supposed to be dot AND zix in my post before....sorry couldn`t find my edit button
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Dot Matrix
On Unsolved Mysteries years back they had a now older gentleman who said he was a civilian around Roswell. He was dating a nurse. The nurse was called into the hospital and worked on these "creatures" that had crashed. When she met with her boyfriend she told him she was forbidden to speak of the incident but drew him pictures, on a napkin of the now famous looking big head almond eyed creatures.
Later, she was called back to the hospital and he went to see her and learn about the hoopla. When he got there she, the nurse, told him to leave for his own saftey -- then military men escourted him out of the building.
This woman, the nurse, was never seen again.
On the same show, one guy, now a respected professional said he had a piece of the weird metal like substance found in the field and the military came and collected it from the home.
Another military guy said he was one of the folks "hiding evidence" and he said he also saw these weird unearthly beings.
Now, when I was in TWI I just dismissed everything as a trick of the devil or a TALL TALL story. But now, I dunno.
My Father went through Roswell area and at the museum the same guy talking about the nurse on Unsolved Mysteries, sits there answering questions. My Dad a highly educated retired professional, said the speaker is very compelling.
I alwyas blew off the abductions as "crazies" and even when the medical reports would provide evidence of a strange implant -- I would think through my Way brain and think "devil trick"
But hey, I was tricked by TWI, so maybe these fols are telling the truth as they know it and the WAY was devil happy about anything they could not explain.
As for measuring things by those indicators we are used to , well God has no begining or end. We think in timelines... God has no "time restraints" Perhaps much like we thought the molecule was the smallest measurment, then we discovered the atom...
What if life as we know it is not the only life?
What if measurements are not held by merely the speed of sound or light? What if things can travel by color or something different? Is there anything in the Bible supporting TWI's theory that all planets are out there, and all life is to bless us?
Could be... Or that could be a self centered way to keep your/my thinking "small".
Dot Matrix
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Dot Matrix
I heard that was a hoax years ago done by men with boards and rope. I mentioned it because in the movie the crop circles where used as directions or landing areas.
Dot Matrix
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