quote:It's amazing that such a proud and noble people evolved into the tentacle porn loving perverts of today by simply coming into contact with American and European civilization.
Ever seen any ancient Japanese erotic prints? They were enjoying that long before there even was a United States.
Oh, now you've gone and done it. Broached my favorite topic in the world - Japanese prints.
Yes, numerous prints made during Edo-era Japan were of an erotic nature. These were referred to as "Shun ga" prints (literally "spring pictures). I heard estimates that as much as 40%of all Japanese prints were originally shunga.
Books of shunga (called "pillow" books) were customarily given to young girls approaching marriageable age. I guess these were supposed to be a sort of primer for what to expect on their wedding night.
As for Japanese society prior to contact with the west, well, it wasn't exactly heaven on earth. It was a very strictly stratified society, where the Shoguns, daimyo, and their Samurai ran everything with an iron (and usually brutal) hand.
If you happened to have been born into the upper classes of society, life was good. But if you were in the worker or merchant class, it was a bit less refined. Deference to those of higher class wasn't just a social amenity, it was enforced quite physically.
A notable case being in the late 18th century a merchant was caught standing by the roadside wearing clothes that were a little too flashy for the liking of the passing Daimyo. The merchant was summarily decapitated. (the samurai had the unquestioned right of "kirisute", meaning they could kill whoever they wanted, no questions asked).
And with regards to sexual improprieties, the Japanese needed no help from the west. In the early 17th century the Kabuki theatre originally was performed by an all-woman cast. In actuality, it was simply a live-action avertisement for the services of the prostitute-actresses.
The Japanese government put a stop to that by requiring all the actors in Kabuki to be male. So then they started using young boys for the actors, and STILL indulged in the after-hours sexual trade, only with boys instead of women for the sex providers.
The government again stepped in and demanded that all the actors be grown men, and further, that actors portraying women's roles (called "onnagata" - "in the manner of a woman")
must shave the forelock of their hair - so as to make them sexually unattractive (hey, it's a Japanese thing, I don't get it either). To cover this bald spot the onnagata would wear a purple cloth over their forehead ( a "murasaki boshi").
The theatre still had quite a reputation for sexual goings on, even with all the government restraints. The onnagata were routinely transvestites in real life anyway, and had somewhat odd habits, to put it mildly. And yes, all this happened all on their own, without any corrupting influences from the west.
On the other hand, MUCH of Japanese culture and life is absolutely sublime. They have a handle on certain aspects of life that the west will probably never know.
But, to get back to the movie. I'm confused. I heard the review by the critic on NPR, and he panned it pretty severely. Then I listened to Leonard Malton, and he said it was the greatest thing since "Gone With the Wind".
But, to get back to the movie. I'm confused. I heard the review by the critic on NPR, and he panned it pretty severely. Then I listened to Leonard Malton, and he said it was the greatest thing since "Gone With the Wind".
I guess I'll haveta see it myself...
geo.
Well, I would say that it was not the best nor the worst movie I've ever seen. Although not really related, I guess you could compare some aspects of Dances with Wolves (for the white guy joining a different culture aspect) and Braveheart for the fight sequences. It's also pretty long, but I enjoyed it.
The most refreshing thing for me is that it wasn't overburdened by a love sequence. I don't think I'll spoil it by saying this, but the most Tom Cruise did was get a quick kiss and a hug.
George: I think what P-Mosh was referring to was some of the more recent Japanese adult animation (anime) like Urotsukidoji which featured scenes of women getting raped to death by tentacled demons. Needless to say, I only watched about half of one episode and don't care to see any more of it. Give me old cheesy episodes of Uchuu Senkan Yamato or Kido Senshi Gundam--they can keep the snuff cartoons.
Yeah, I got that, I was just trying to point out that when it comes to aberrant sexual behaviors and desires, Japan needed NO help from the west. They can concoct debauchery with the best of them. Always could...
I haven't seen the movie, yet. I'm still conflicted.
There are some very interesting true stories about Civil War officers of, shall we say, less than stirling reputation who were hired by the ruler of Egypt to train his army for an uprising against the Ottomans. They didn't accomplish much with the army, but they did a lot of surveying on the upper Nile which laid some of the groundwork for Stanley, Livingston, et al.
To the best of my understanding, the Japanese army was upgraded to western standards in the 19th century by GERMAN trainers. And 19th century samurai were sort of like modern British knights. They'd had their military teeth drawn for several hundred years already.
I'm drawn to go see "The Last Samurai" for the spectacle, but I'm repulsed by the ahistoricity of its Hollywood knee-jerk, anti-dead-white-guy-Amerikanism.
Steve: I think you're off-base here. TLS was an excellent movie and there are a few white guys who get killed... Regardless if it was Germans instead of Americans, the real story of TLS is the Japanese themselves. The Japanese supporting cast is top-notch and truly carry the film. So much so, in fact, that anyone could have played Tom Cruise's part and not significantly altered the movie.
I also think the reviews that say it's just another Dances With Wolves don't really do this film justice. I'll go out on a limb and say TLS was a superior film to DWW. While the chances of Cruise getting an Oscar nom are only about 50-50, I think Ken Watanabe will definitely be nominated for Best Supporting Actor. (Andy Serkis should win it, though, for his work in Lord of the Rings, but that's a tricky issue.)
Secret Signature of the Day==v
Atheists will not burn in Hell because of their disbelief, but rather because they're such insufferable a**holes about it.
I saw it las night and found it deeply moving. My son afterwards said "I wish I had that kind of faith, that I was that courageous". Interesting response to what, at times, is a bloodbath. (I told him that this level of faith is already deep within him and that it and the bravery would surface, not by trying, but by *being those things when occasion called for it).
Tom Cruise was surprisingly excellent. The male & female leads were luminous...some of the better acting I've ever seen.
A better comparision than DWW is, as mosh mentioned, is Braveheart. Similar look, sentiment, nobility, etc.
Okay, George. Now, at last I finally know what turns you on. The proof is in the pudding. No need for proof or validation of belief here. You don't like the pudding, use prophylactics.
No, seriously; I started studying Karate a few months ago. My instructor - sensei - has roots and philosophy going back to China. Okinawa, actually, but it all came from China originally. He said that TLS was the best martial arts movie ever made, both historically and (martial) artistically.
Very accurate. There really was a white guy who...
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
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Pirate1974
Ever seen any ancient Japanese erotic prints? They were enjoying that long before there even was a United States.
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George Aar
Oh, now you've gone and done it. Broached my favorite topic in the world - Japanese prints.
Yes, numerous prints made during Edo-era Japan were of an erotic nature. These were referred to as "Shun ga" prints (literally "spring pictures). I heard estimates that as much as 40%of all Japanese prints were originally shunga.
Books of shunga (called "pillow" books) were customarily given to young girls approaching marriageable age. I guess these were supposed to be a sort of primer for what to expect on their wedding night.
As for Japanese society prior to contact with the west, well, it wasn't exactly heaven on earth. It was a very strictly stratified society, where the Shoguns, daimyo, and their Samurai ran everything with an iron (and usually brutal) hand.
If you happened to have been born into the upper classes of society, life was good. But if you were in the worker or merchant class, it was a bit less refined. Deference to those of higher class wasn't just a social amenity, it was enforced quite physically.
A notable case being in the late 18th century a merchant was caught standing by the roadside wearing clothes that were a little too flashy for the liking of the passing Daimyo. The merchant was summarily decapitated. (the samurai had the unquestioned right of "kirisute", meaning they could kill whoever they wanted, no questions asked).
And with regards to sexual improprieties, the Japanese needed no help from the west. In the early 17th century the Kabuki theatre originally was performed by an all-woman cast. In actuality, it was simply a live-action avertisement for the services of the prostitute-actresses.
The Japanese government put a stop to that by requiring all the actors in Kabuki to be male. So then they started using young boys for the actors, and STILL indulged in the after-hours sexual trade, only with boys instead of women for the sex providers.
The government again stepped in and demanded that all the actors be grown men, and further, that actors portraying women's roles (called "onnagata" - "in the manner of a woman")
must shave the forelock of their hair - so as to make them sexually unattractive (hey, it's a Japanese thing, I don't get it either). To cover this bald spot the onnagata would wear a purple cloth over their forehead ( a "murasaki boshi").
The theatre still had quite a reputation for sexual goings on, even with all the government restraints. The onnagata were routinely transvestites in real life anyway, and had somewhat odd habits, to put it mildly. And yes, all this happened all on their own, without any corrupting influences from the west.
On the other hand, MUCH of Japanese culture and life is absolutely sublime. They have a handle on certain aspects of life that the west will probably never know.
But, to get back to the movie. I'm confused. I heard the review by the critic on NPR, and he panned it pretty severely. Then I listened to Leonard Malton, and he said it was the greatest thing since "Gone With the Wind".
I guess I'll haveta see it myself...
geo.
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mstar1
i dont know if I will see the movie, but I enjoyed the history lesson
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Sudo
I second Mstar, George..
I appreciate all your very informative insight into the culture of the far East. You're not boring ME.
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Mister P-Mosh
Well, I would say that it was not the best nor the worst movie I've ever seen. Although not really related, I guess you could compare some aspects of Dances with Wolves (for the white guy joining a different culture aspect) and Braveheart for the fight sequences. It's also pretty long, but I enjoyed it.
The most refreshing thing for me is that it wasn't overburdened by a love sequence. I don't think I'll spoil it by saying this, but the most Tom Cruise did was get a quick kiss and a hug.
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Zixar
George: I think what P-Mosh was referring to was some of the more recent Japanese adult animation (anime) like Urotsukidoji which featured scenes of women getting raped to death by tentacled demons. Needless to say, I only watched about half of one episode and don't care to see any more of it. Give me old cheesy episodes of Uchuu Senkan Yamato or Kido Senshi Gundam--they can keep the snuff cartoons.
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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George Aar
Zix,
Yeah, I got that, I was just trying to point out that when it comes to aberrant sexual behaviors and desires, Japan needed NO help from the west. They can concoct debauchery with the best of them. Always could...
geo.
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Steve Lortz
I haven't seen the movie, yet. I'm still conflicted.
There are some very interesting true stories about Civil War officers of, shall we say, less than stirling reputation who were hired by the ruler of Egypt to train his army for an uprising against the Ottomans. They didn't accomplish much with the army, but they did a lot of surveying on the upper Nile which laid some of the groundwork for Stanley, Livingston, et al.
To the best of my understanding, the Japanese army was upgraded to western standards in the 19th century by GERMAN trainers. And 19th century samurai were sort of like modern British knights. They'd had their military teeth drawn for several hundred years already.
I'm drawn to go see "The Last Samurai" for the spectacle, but I'm repulsed by the ahistoricity of its Hollywood knee-jerk, anti-dead-white-guy-Amerikanism.
Love,
Steve
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Zixar
Steve: I think you're off-base here. TLS was an excellent movie and there are a few white guys who get killed... Regardless if it was Germans instead of Americans, the real story of TLS is the Japanese themselves. The Japanese supporting cast is top-notch and truly carry the film. So much so, in fact, that anyone could have played Tom Cruise's part and not significantly altered the movie.
Go see it, it's not a waste of time or money.
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Mister P-Mosh
I think the fact that Zixar and I agree should be enough to say how good this movie is.
:D-->
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JC'smyfave
I think this movie will be entertaining...and I believe I lived in the East in a former life so...it's even more interesting to me in that light.
Kay
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Zixar
I also think the reviews that say it's just another Dances With Wolves don't really do this film justice. I'll go out on a limb and say TLS was a superior film to DWW. While the chances of Cruise getting an Oscar nom are only about 50-50, I think Ken Watanabe will definitely be nominated for Best Supporting Actor. (Andy Serkis should win it, though, for his work in Lord of the Rings, but that's a tricky issue.)
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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TheEvan
I saw it las night and found it deeply moving. My son afterwards said "I wish I had that kind of faith, that I was that courageous". Interesting response to what, at times, is a bloodbath. (I told him that this level of faith is already deep within him and that it and the bravery would surface, not by trying, but by *being those things when occasion called for it).
Tom Cruise was surprisingly excellent. The male & female leads were luminous...some of the better acting I've ever seen.
A better comparision than DWW is, as mosh mentioned, is Braveheart. Similar look, sentiment, nobility, etc.
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Tom
Okay, George. Now, at last I finally know what turns you on. The proof is in the pudding. No need for proof or validation of belief here. You don't like the pudding, use prophylactics.
No, seriously; I started studying Karate a few months ago. My instructor - sensei - has roots and philosophy going back to China. Okinawa, actually, but it all came from China originally. He said that TLS was the best martial arts movie ever made, both historically and (martial) artistically.
Very accurate. There really was a white guy who...
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Tom
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