Here is a link that may help you in constructing VALID arguments... It seems posters are often telling you why your posts are without merit...I'd ask you to play by the rules, but clearly the rules are not important to you. Have you ever read the grammar books I proposed?
Ok, I’m game. How’s about yous learning me like an adult, by example, for example.
If you would be so kind, please look at the earlier post I did here, at 9:35 AM this morning. It has a lot of edit indicators, because I worked hard at it, yet it would be great to see it ascend to adult level. How about you correcting it, grammatically for me?
No fair messing with the content or spiritual information, but if you would simply correct it grammatically, line by line, and tell me why each change is being made, I’m sure I’d learn a lot from the lesson.
Then after you’re all done you could put it all together and show me the grand final result. I’m sure I’ll be impressed to the extent of not only cleaning up my GRAMMAR, but I can then also have the motivation to follow up on the LOGIC link you provided and get my act together.
quote: Not only do your accusers have nothing substantial to criticize you of, they also have nothing substantial to say why they stayed in the ministry so long. Either they got blessed and hence stayed, or they were extremely stupid and stayed.
Ah, but when I got out after a dozen years, you said I chickened out and got out too early! You sure do make it up as you go along.
SOME people stayed in for family, some out of fear, as Oak said. Still others had a sense that they might be able to help the ministry better from the inside instead of the outside. Many posters have posted their reasons for staying in TWI. Many have also discussed what they do for a living now, and how much better their lives are now that they are out of TWI.
Also, I wouldn't be so fast to make you and Oldies into an "us." I've never heard Oldies post that he thinks PFAL replaces the Bible.
Honestly, I can no longer actually read through your posts....they give me a pain in my eyes. But running your post through Word, I only found 2 errors. Not bad!
It's not the grammar that keeps me away, though. It is the terrible word choice, the inability to make a concise statement - using as few words as possible, and your condescending attitude, to name a few.
If correcting your post will give you motivation to debate in proper form, well, that's too bad.
Everyone can learn a thing or two about logical fallacy rules. I would never presume you were open to receiving spiritual insights from me, but the link provided is enlightening in its own way.
You wrote: “Honestly, I can no longer actually read through your posts....they give me a pain in my eyes. But running your post through Word, I only found 2 errors. Not bad!”
Sometimes I deliberately misspell a word or make one up or stretch grammar to make a point that stands out.
***
You wrote: “It's not the grammar that keeps me away, though. It is the terrible word choice, the inability to make a concise statement - using as few words as possible, and your condescending attitude...”
I admit to the condescending attitude in SOME matters, but I don’t think it’s wrong. Remember, God condescends down to the level of man to help teach in that figure of speech and in many other ways. Whey you teach a child you employ positive condescension, even though the little one sometimes doesn’t like it at the time. I’m sure when you do this in love it’s not an ego trip. Any inappropriate ego in such a case emminates from the child, not you.
The same holds when I have the truth on a matter and a reader of my posts is in error. If they WANT to learn, then they like my condescension to help them understand. If they don't want to learn their ego trip makes them think I’m on an ego trip when I’m not. Later on, if they decide to dump their broken cistern, they can rejoice at the fountain of living waters I direct them to, and it’s finally clear to them the I’m not trying to say I MYSELF am the fountain, only the director to such.
I explained all this earlier in this thread.
***
You wrote: “Everyone can learn a thing or two about logical fallacy rules. I would never presume you were open to receiving spiritual insights from me, but the link provided is enlightening in its own way.”
May I ask how it is that you can’t read my posts, yet see logical fallacies? I’d think that such an insight would require several careful readings.
Aside from that, something I’ve posted several times is the fact that I often am not trying to prove something as much as simply announcing or making something available. When this is the case I often will use a little logic in the introduction or presentation or follow-up, but the bulk is beyond logical proof. I expect that the meek searchers will get the go-ahead from God, or just mere curiosity will do the same, and they will try it out. The proof is not in the putting, but in the trying.
I was betting my money on them being blessed in the ministry.
Regarding an earlier post on an earlier page, you win the prize. It was "The Thirteenth Tribe" that I was wondering if anyone remembered. I think this is the second time won one of my pop quizzes. Maybe someday you’ll be a fit researcher. The hard part will be becoming meek to God as the Author of the material to be researched. I’m rooting for you.
You wrote: “...I dunno about him being one of the great minds... his history of the Jews was nothing new.”
He wrote a lot on the history and philosophy of science. Prior to that he was a Russian reporter at the time of the revolution and later escaped Stalin. I’m winging it here a bit on memory. It’s ok to Google now to check me out. I think he was also a Harvard professor in Psychology at one time.
In my mind his towering achievement was a book called “The Act of Creation” where he proposes a theory that explains original thought (a questionable concept to me now) in the areas of science, art, and humor. I’ve run into comedians who use his theory to write comedy.
The academic world went ga-ga over him until he wrote “The Thirteenth Tribe" and then almost disowned him. His work there was not on the original side as much as he attempted to legitimized prior work that would never get any attention. He failed. Some say that this contributed to his eventual suicide with his wife, but they were also very old, and at least one had a terminal disease.
I’m open to correction on any of this. It’s a total wing job.
You wrote: “I am merely trying to get you to think for yourself.”
I thought so, and I came up with this on my own. This is why I didn’t answer you. I try to get you to STOP thinking on your own and within the revelation God gave you. Tomorrow’s another day.
You wrote earlier: “I love it when Mike quotes Wierwille's PFAL book to support his belief that PFAL is god-breathed.”
Actually, I quote things like that to prove that you folks were asleep at the switch when you were supposedly mastering Dr’s books. I’ve OFTEN been told that Dr never asserted the God-breathed status of his books, so I post where he did.
Like I posted to karmicdebt above, I’m not proving Dr correct here, I’m proving you folks never seriously took the class.
I had written: “I don’t trust the flawed versions of the Bible that abound. Neither do you if you correct any of the botched verses in them or augment any verses in the margins.”
To which you responded: “...their the same flaws vp learned from. other than other peoples works on them.”
VPW didn’t trust the flawed versions.
I don’t trust the flawed versions.
Dr learned from the flawed versions, and then received God’s revelations to fix them.
I learned from the flawed versions, and then moved on to Dr’s revelations.
***
You wrote: “... I do know I learned some things when I was in that have saved my life. our minds were open for gods word...”
This is comforting to hear. I wish you had typed it in capitals.
***
You wrote: “ when does someone close their mind to a bad thing? not god, I don't think anyone here has a closed mind to god.”
I think they close their minds to HOW God wants to communicate to them.
***
You wrote: “...we all took PFAL, your msg is it's great, not everyone thinks that way”
The reason they don’t think it’s great is because they ONLY took the class, but never really finished it by mastering the books. When they do it will be much greater in their appreciation.
***
You wrote: “I am honest enough to tell you I keep what I found worked for me in PFAL and still do it today.”
Again, this is great to hear. I know that if you come back to the books you’ll find much more that works for you.
***
You wrote: “would I recommend someone contact TWI and find a twig, no, because it was and is run by bad people.”
I agree, but I also believe that when they come back to PFAL and master it they will change and smarten up. We all blew it in different ways and hurt ourselves and others in different ways. We all learned different things and failed to learn other thing. When we all come back and help each other with the mastering it will be a wonderful time. Some people are already experiencing this.
***
You wrote: “I am thankful for what I learned and now I live my life by being the best son of God "I" can be. if PFAL is that great revelation VPW couldn't have closed the door on it, and thats pretty much what he did. if God opens a window, can we close it? did God open a window with PFAL, and if he did, who closed it?”
VPW admitted often hat he was not the best student and implementor of his own writings. He got the revelations and put them into written form, but he admitted to falling short of mastering them in his life. This discouraged all those who had trained their eyes on him as some sort of god. So both he and they closed the door. There are other ways we closed the door, and we all failed in many ways, not just in idolizing him. I include myself in this general failure.
God has opened the door and invited us back to finish learning from His written revelations in the books.
***
You wrote: “do you have an open mind to allow me what you ask of me? you say your mind is shut on this matter, so do most of the posters here. you haven't talked about PFAL here only said the words. this started out saying was DR a real DR, well I guess we all know without telling a lie we can say yes. was he a good man, after all we've learned we know he would have liked to be a better man but he hurt alot of people in many ways, ways I'm sure even he didn't know what was going to be happening in a ripple affect. if you truly want me to understand, why sit in a thread and argue when you could start another thread and show me what your talking about. wouldn't that make more sence and wouldn't people be more receptive? wouldn't that have allowed you to teach what you say is so vital to us. it seems the dr.PFAL debate is really a distraction from a truth you say you have. do you have that open mind you ask of me to tell yourself, ok, these people are nonreceptive and I'm not going to change that. it seems odd to me that you would come to a place where almost 100% of the people were burned in one way or another and wonder why they feel they way they do. a dog bites me I walk away from him.”
I’m doing my best to offer some good stuff. I do it on many threads. This one came along and I jumped on. I will do other threads soon. There are a few here who are blessed in what I do.
If a dog bites me, and I notice that I’m standing on his paw, then I correct my error and try to make friends with him again.
It’s been nice getting to know you a little better, papajohn. I look forward to talking more soon. If I was a little rough in responding to your earlier it was because I thought you were in the crowd of people who were just trying to undo my work here. I can see now you have a good heart.
"I told someone on the phone the other day that if PFAL is wrong I WANT to die. Maybe I'd drop acid and go sky diving without a parachute if I knew for sure it was wrong, just to go out with a bang."
Mike, do you realize what a dangerous place you are living in? When I read that my heart about stopped (figuratively, I mean). When I lived in California, I was witnessed to by Jehova Witnesses. At the time, I was very very young, pre TWI even. I was also very lonely and far from home.
I got to know this couple pretty well, I really liked them. Much of what they taught didn't make sense to me. But I was always afraid to ask too many questions. It seemed to me, they DESPERATELY NEEDED to believe the things they did and that if I asked too many questions, caused them to THINK about what they believed in, caused them to question their own beliefs, it would destroy them.
That is how you strike me Mike and is pretty much what you have said. If your belief system is removed it would destroy you. I have no desire to destroy you Mike.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
This Is what I meant when I said to WhatTheHay that my detractors keep stirring the pot so more can become aware of the Good News I'm saying.
I too was concerned that a lot of this thread would get lost to others who come in late. You’ve just given the more diligent ones a reason to go back and check the context in which I made those statements and the follow-ups. They then can decide if you misrepresented me in your abbreviations and in which items of my many statements you selected. I’m not trying to convert the Bozos here, just those who are tired of the complaining and want some answers. You and your busload of Bozos will eventually see the writing on the wall when carloads of PFAL returnees get blessed and start making even more noise than I do. You’re just a band wagon follower, and this one your on now one is going to end soon. You might want to start thinking about a new outfit when these fashions change and an new handle to hide your eventual shame (I John 2:28).
You wrote: “Mike, do you realize what a dangerous place you are living in? When I read that my heart about stopped (figuratively, I mean).”
It looks like you didn’t read enough to see that I too was speaking figuratively.
You also seem to have missed the volumes I’ve written here and other threads that I am fully aware of ALL the dangers. It’s insulting to me that many think I’m incapable of looking around and seeing all the same dangers you have seen.
Don’t you see that YOUR system is dangerous IF INCORRECT?
***
You wrote: “When I lived in California, I was witnessed to by Jehova Witnesses. At the time, I was very very young, pre TWI even. I was also very lonely and far from home. __ I got to know this couple pretty well, I really liked them. Much of what they taught didn't make sense to me. But I was always afraid to ask too many questions. It seemed to me, they DESPERATELY NEEDED to believe the things they did and that if I asked too many questions, caused them to THINK about what they believed in, caused them to question their own beliefs, it would destroy them.”
I’m very weary with reasonings by analogy like this. It’s cheap and worthless. For every analogy you can think of that says I’m wrong, I can come up with one that says I’m right. You are logical, so surely you must know that analogies are only to be used as teaching devices to ILLUSTRATE proofs already offered. They help people remember the proof, but when substituted as proofs in themselves they portray the giver's of the analogy poverty-of-proof.
***
You wrote: “If your belief system is removed it would destroy you. I have no desire to destroy you Mike.”
You don’t seem to realize that this is true for you too. This is the reason you had a hard time reading this thread where I showed that YOUR belief system with its “To every man his own truth and his own God within” is vapid, full of holes, and worthless. Do you really mean EVERY man? Charles Manson can adopt that line to say murder for fun is spiritually sound. What do you think of HIS god within?
I do think you spotted an excellent point on the broken logic thread. Only thing is, the break occurs not in PFAL, but in your incomplete mastery of it.
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Mike
Oakspear,
I didn't intend offence in the beer comment.
It was just the new girl on the block who flipped out on that one, bless here heart.
She has a lot of homework to do, reading back posts, in seeing what's going on here.
I feel for new people stumbling into these bar room rumbles.
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karmicdebt
Stephen's Guide - fallacies
Mike,
Here is a link that may help you in constructing VALID arguments... It seems posters are often telling you why your posts are without merit...I'd ask you to play by the rules, but clearly the rules are not important to you. Have you ever read the grammar books I proposed?
Time to write like an adult!
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Mike
karmicdebt,
Ok, I’m game. How’s about yous learning me like an adult, by example, for example.
If you would be so kind, please look at the earlier post I did here, at 9:35 AM this morning. It has a lot of edit indicators, because I worked hard at it, yet it would be great to see it ascend to adult level. How about you correcting it, grammatically for me?
No fair messing with the content or spiritual information, but if you would simply correct it grammatically, line by line, and tell me why each change is being made, I’m sure I’d learn a lot from the lesson.
Then after you’re all done you could put it all together and show me the grand final result. I’m sure I’ll be impressed to the extent of not only cleaning up my GRAMMAR, but I can then also have the motivation to follow up on the LOGIC link you provided and get my act together.
How about it?
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shazdancer
WhatTheHay,
I'm sure I don't begin to understand your logic.
Mike,
You said...
Ah, but when I got out after a dozen years, you said I chickened out and got out too early! You sure do make it up as you go along.SOME people stayed in for family, some out of fear, as Oak said. Still others had a sense that they might be able to help the ministry better from the inside instead of the outside. Many posters have posted their reasons for staying in TWI. Many have also discussed what they do for a living now, and how much better their lives are now that they are out of TWI.
Also, I wouldn't be so fast to make you and Oldies into an "us." I've never heard Oldies post that he thinks PFAL replaces the Bible.
Shaz
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karmicdebt
Mike,
Honestly, I can no longer actually read through your posts....they give me a pain in my eyes. But running your post through Word, I only found 2 errors. Not bad!
It's not the grammar that keeps me away, though. It is the terrible word choice, the inability to make a concise statement - using as few words as possible, and your condescending attitude, to name a few.
If correcting your post will give you motivation to debate in proper form, well, that's too bad.
Everyone can learn a thing or two about logical fallacy rules. I would never presume you were open to receiving spiritual insights from me, but the link provided is enlightening in its own way.
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TheInvisibleDan
Well I went back to the first century, and I didn't see Wierwille anywhere in sight.
I did, however, happen spot a broken down Harley near the 19th century ramp, with Ohio plates.
But damn, I didn't see him anywhere in the first century.
Sorry to break this news to you, Mike.
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Mike
Dan,
In your time travels, did you notice Paul headed forward to the Third Heaven.
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Mike
karmicdebt,
You wrote: “Honestly, I can no longer actually read through your posts....they give me a pain in my eyes. But running your post through Word, I only found 2 errors. Not bad!”
Sometimes I deliberately misspell a word or make one up or stretch grammar to make a point that stands out.
***
You wrote: “It's not the grammar that keeps me away, though. It is the terrible word choice, the inability to make a concise statement - using as few words as possible, and your condescending attitude...”
I admit to the condescending attitude in SOME matters, but I don’t think it’s wrong. Remember, God condescends down to the level of man to help teach in that figure of speech and in many other ways. Whey you teach a child you employ positive condescension, even though the little one sometimes doesn’t like it at the time. I’m sure when you do this in love it’s not an ego trip. Any inappropriate ego in such a case emminates from the child, not you.
The same holds when I have the truth on a matter and a reader of my posts is in error. If they WANT to learn, then they like my condescension to help them understand. If they don't want to learn their ego trip makes them think I’m on an ego trip when I’m not. Later on, if they decide to dump their broken cistern, they can rejoice at the fountain of living waters I direct them to, and it’s finally clear to them the I’m not trying to say I MYSELF am the fountain, only the director to such.
I explained all this earlier in this thread.
***
You wrote: “Everyone can learn a thing or two about logical fallacy rules. I would never presume you were open to receiving spiritual insights from me, but the link provided is enlightening in its own way.”
May I ask how it is that you can’t read my posts, yet see logical fallacies? I’d think that such an insight would require several careful readings.
Aside from that, something I’ve posted several times is the fact that I often am not trying to prove something as much as simply announcing or making something available. When this is the case I often will use a little logic in the introduction or presentation or follow-up, but the bulk is beyond logical proof. I expect that the meek searchers will get the go-ahead from God, or just mere curiosity will do the same, and they will try it out. The proof is not in the putting, but in the trying.
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Mike
shazdancer,
I was betting my money on them being blessed in the ministry.
Regarding an earlier post on an earlier page, you win the prize. It was "The Thirteenth Tribe" that I was wondering if anyone remembered. I think this is the second time won one of my pop quizzes. Maybe someday you’ll be a fit researcher. The hard part will be becoming meek to God as the Author of the material to be researched. I’m rooting for you.
You wrote: “...I dunno about him being one of the great minds... his history of the Jews was nothing new.”
He wrote a lot on the history and philosophy of science. Prior to that he was a Russian reporter at the time of the revolution and later escaped Stalin. I’m winging it here a bit on memory. It’s ok to Google now to check me out. I think he was also a Harvard professor in Psychology at one time.
In my mind his towering achievement was a book called “The Act of Creation” where he proposes a theory that explains original thought (a questionable concept to me now) in the areas of science, art, and humor. I’ve run into comedians who use his theory to write comedy.
The academic world went ga-ga over him until he wrote “The Thirteenth Tribe" and then almost disowned him. His work there was not on the original side as much as he attempted to legitimized prior work that would never get any attention. He failed. Some say that this contributed to his eventual suicide with his wife, but they were also very old, and at least one had a terminal disease.
I’m open to correction on any of this. It’s a total wing job.
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Mike
Mark Sanguinetti
You wrote: “I am merely trying to get you to think for yourself.”
I thought so, and I came up with this on my own. This is why I didn’t answer you. I try to get you to STOP thinking on your own and within the revelation God gave you. Tomorrow’s another day.
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Oakspear
Thinking...that's a good thing, right?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
Oakspear,
You wrote earlier: “I love it when Mike quotes Wierwille's PFAL book to support his belief that PFAL is god-breathed.”
Actually, I quote things like that to prove that you folks were asleep at the switch when you were supposedly mastering Dr’s books. I’ve OFTEN been told that Dr never asserted the God-breathed status of his books, so I post where he did.
Like I posted to karmicdebt above, I’m not proving Dr correct here, I’m proving you folks never seriously took the class.
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Mike
Oak,
Yes, thinking is good. Thinking for oneself is doomed to the adversary's influence. Thinking with God's Word is guaranteed to come out right.
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WordWolf
For those of you just joining us, Mike's position concerning the Bible is
as follows:
A) the Bible was the Word of God "in the First Century".
B) Sometime after "the First Century", the Bible was no longer "the Word of
God".
C) After the "First Century", the written "Word of God" was not available.
Period. The only things that were available were woefully-inadequate
Bibles, which he claims were altered sufficient to invalidate the contents.
D) Sometime in the middle-to-late 20th century, God worked in tandem with
vpw to rewrite "the Word of God" entirely from scratch. This is also known
as the collected works of vpw-including pfal and the collaterals, plus
various articles and tapes. Outside of materials written by vpw,
"the Word of God" is inaccessible.
E) According to Mike, vpw definitely thought of his books as replacing the
Bible as the Word of God. He concealed all mention of this cabalistically in
his materials (where only Mike sees it) for several reasons-mainly the
unbelief of the students, and to hide it from the devil.
F) So, according to Mike, there WAS no written "Word of God" for nearly
20 centuries, and this only ended once vpw set pen to paper. UNTIL vpw set
pen to paper, it didn't EXIST in any written form.
G) All references to "the Word of God" by vpw, according to Mike, either
refer to the version lost centuries ago, or refer to the new improved
testament vpw himself was writing.
H) Mike has dogmatically declared that he absolutely will not even entertain
the notion that his position might be wrong.
I) Mike has previously been noted as having held this opinion for many,
many years. In fact, he's compared tape transcription-work to the dictations
Paul did to others. His position concerning pfal has fundamentally remained
the same for many years, minus some minor tweaking.
If you ask Mike, however, he will adamantly assert that he gave other
positions an honest look for a considerable amount of time, and then
eventually concluded his current POV (also known as his original POV) is the
correct one.
If you point this out, however, be prepared to be called several brands of
liar.
Please carefully note the positions concerning "the Word of God" and the
Bible, as this will become critically important soon. That's why I was so
redundant-I wanted to make sure the main points weren't missed.
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Mike
papajohn,
I had written: “I don’t trust the flawed versions of the Bible that abound. Neither do you if you correct any of the botched verses in them or augment any verses in the margins.”
To which you responded: “...their the same flaws vp learned from. other than other peoples works on them.”
VPW didn’t trust the flawed versions.
I don’t trust the flawed versions.
Dr learned from the flawed versions, and then received God’s revelations to fix them.
I learned from the flawed versions, and then moved on to Dr’s revelations.
***
You wrote: “... I do know I learned some things when I was in that have saved my life. our minds were open for gods word...”
This is comforting to hear. I wish you had typed it in capitals.
***
You wrote: “ when does someone close their mind to a bad thing? not god, I don't think anyone here has a closed mind to god.”
I think they close their minds to HOW God wants to communicate to them.
***
You wrote: “...we all took PFAL, your msg is it's great, not everyone thinks that way”
The reason they don’t think it’s great is because they ONLY took the class, but never really finished it by mastering the books. When they do it will be much greater in their appreciation.
***
You wrote: “I am honest enough to tell you I keep what I found worked for me in PFAL and still do it today.”
Again, this is great to hear. I know that if you come back to the books you’ll find much more that works for you.
***
You wrote: “would I recommend someone contact TWI and find a twig, no, because it was and is run by bad people.”
I agree, but I also believe that when they come back to PFAL and master it they will change and smarten up. We all blew it in different ways and hurt ourselves and others in different ways. We all learned different things and failed to learn other thing. When we all come back and help each other with the mastering it will be a wonderful time. Some people are already experiencing this.
***
You wrote: “I am thankful for what I learned and now I live my life by being the best son of God "I" can be. if PFAL is that great revelation VPW couldn't have closed the door on it, and thats pretty much what he did. if God opens a window, can we close it? did God open a window with PFAL, and if he did, who closed it?”
VPW admitted often hat he was not the best student and implementor of his own writings. He got the revelations and put them into written form, but he admitted to falling short of mastering them in his life. This discouraged all those who had trained their eyes on him as some sort of god. So both he and they closed the door. There are other ways we closed the door, and we all failed in many ways, not just in idolizing him. I include myself in this general failure.
God has opened the door and invited us back to finish learning from His written revelations in the books.
***
You wrote: “do you have an open mind to allow me what you ask of me? you say your mind is shut on this matter, so do most of the posters here. you haven't talked about PFAL here only said the words. this started out saying was DR a real DR, well I guess we all know without telling a lie we can say yes. was he a good man, after all we've learned we know he would have liked to be a better man but he hurt alot of people in many ways, ways I'm sure even he didn't know what was going to be happening in a ripple affect. if you truly want me to understand, why sit in a thread and argue when you could start another thread and show me what your talking about. wouldn't that make more sence and wouldn't people be more receptive? wouldn't that have allowed you to teach what you say is so vital to us. it seems the dr.PFAL debate is really a distraction from a truth you say you have. do you have that open mind you ask of me to tell yourself, ok, these people are nonreceptive and I'm not going to change that. it seems odd to me that you would come to a place where almost 100% of the people were burned in one way or another and wonder why they feel they way they do. a dog bites me I walk away from him.”
I’m doing my best to offer some good stuff. I do it on many threads. This one came along and I jumped on. I will do other threads soon. There are a few here who are blessed in what I do.
If a dog bites me, and I notice that I’m standing on his paw, then I correct my error and try to make friends with him again.
It’s been nice getting to know you a little better, papajohn. I look forward to talking more soon. If I was a little rough in responding to your earlier it was because I thought you were in the crowd of people who were just trying to undo my work here. I can see now you have a good heart.
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Oakspear
Mike, the offer of a Leinenkugel on me still stands, even though I disagree with virtually everything you say.
:D-->
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
Thanks Oak,
It's nice to be friendly in spite of the crap we all suffered and the heat of debating on sorting out the good from the bad.
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WordWolf
For those of you who are just skimming this thread, here's an
exchange you may have missed.
Mike: 2/2/04 12:17am
"When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his
hand and teaching you from it."
Mike 2/3/04 5:22am
"Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman.
Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL.
He told me so."
Vickles 2/3/04 7:51pm
"So, Mike, you weren't kidding about JC coming with a PFAL book in his
hand."
Mike 2/3/04 7:53pm
"Totally serious. I've already seen him this way more than once."
===========================
With all the speed this thread's had, I figured a lot of people missed
that.
For those of you who think I made up Mike's position on the current
Bibles, most of it's already reiterated on this thread.
However, his most concise comment on it was from the
"Sincere Answers Please" thread, 1/9/04 1:19am.
"God's Word was LOST in the first century."
On this here thread, his most concise comment on the same subject
was (pg-9 2/3/04, 6:55pm)
"...your present approach has failed for all those who tried it for
2,000 years."
So, you decide if I'm misrepresenting or exaggerating.
(If anything, I think I'm understating.)
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Abigail
"I told someone on the phone the other day that if PFAL is wrong I WANT to die. Maybe I'd drop acid and go sky diving without a parachute if I knew for sure it was wrong, just to go out with a bang."
Mike, do you realize what a dangerous place you are living in? When I read that my heart about stopped (figuratively, I mean). When I lived in California, I was witnessed to by Jehova Witnesses. At the time, I was very very young, pre TWI even. I was also very lonely and far from home.
I got to know this couple pretty well, I really liked them. Much of what they taught didn't make sense to me. But I was always afraid to ask too many questions. It seemed to me, they DESPERATELY NEEDED to believe the things they did and that if I asked too many questions, caused them to THINK about what they believed in, caused them to question their own beliefs, it would destroy them.
That is how you strike me Mike and is pretty much what you have said. If your belief system is removed it would destroy you. I have no desire to destroy you Mike.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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GarthP2000
Not to worry, Abigail. Smikeol is doing the job quite nicely on his own.
-->
Statements like "Thinking for oneself is doomed to the adversary's influence." is but one clear indicator.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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TheInvisibleDan
Absolutely.
And I also saw the Good God descending from hence, "In the 15th Year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar".
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Mike
WordWolf,
Thank You for the promo.
This Is what I meant when I said to WhatTheHay that my detractors keep stirring the pot so more can become aware of the Good News I'm saying.
I too was concerned that a lot of this thread would get lost to others who come in late. You’ve just given the more diligent ones a reason to go back and check the context in which I made those statements and the follow-ups. They then can decide if you misrepresented me in your abbreviations and in which items of my many statements you selected. I’m not trying to convert the Bozos here, just those who are tired of the complaining and want some answers. You and your busload of Bozos will eventually see the writing on the wall when carloads of PFAL returnees get blessed and start making even more noise than I do. You’re just a band wagon follower, and this one your on now one is going to end soon. You might want to start thinking about a new outfit when these fashions change and an new handle to hide your eventual shame (I John 2:28).
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Mike
Abigail,
You wrote: “Mike, do you realize what a dangerous place you are living in? When I read that my heart about stopped (figuratively, I mean).”
It looks like you didn’t read enough to see that I too was speaking figuratively.
You also seem to have missed the volumes I’ve written here and other threads that I am fully aware of ALL the dangers. It’s insulting to me that many think I’m incapable of looking around and seeing all the same dangers you have seen.
Don’t you see that YOUR system is dangerous IF INCORRECT?
***
You wrote: “When I lived in California, I was witnessed to by Jehova Witnesses. At the time, I was very very young, pre TWI even. I was also very lonely and far from home. __ I got to know this couple pretty well, I really liked them. Much of what they taught didn't make sense to me. But I was always afraid to ask too many questions. It seemed to me, they DESPERATELY NEEDED to believe the things they did and that if I asked too many questions, caused them to THINK about what they believed in, caused them to question their own beliefs, it would destroy them.”
I’m very weary with reasonings by analogy like this. It’s cheap and worthless. For every analogy you can think of that says I’m wrong, I can come up with one that says I’m right. You are logical, so surely you must know that analogies are only to be used as teaching devices to ILLUSTRATE proofs already offered. They help people remember the proof, but when substituted as proofs in themselves they portray the giver's of the analogy poverty-of-proof.
***
You wrote: “If your belief system is removed it would destroy you. I have no desire to destroy you Mike.”
You don’t seem to realize that this is true for you too. This is the reason you had a hard time reading this thread where I showed that YOUR belief system with its “To every man his own truth and his own God within” is vapid, full of holes, and worthless. Do you really mean EVERY man? Charles Manson can adopt that line to say murder for fun is spiritually sound. What do you think of HIS god within?
I do think you spotted an excellent point on the broken logic thread. Only thing is, the break occurs not in PFAL, but in your incomplete mastery of it.
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Mike
Hey? ...... where's Brady?
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