I know exactly how you feel. I was where you were just a little over a year ago.
You can see people's email if they put it on their profile. To see profiles, you click on the person's name in a post and then view public profile. If people choose to be emailed, they will put their email in their public profile.
There are a couple of things that you can do to contact posters here.
One is to click on that poster's nickname, and then a menu pops up, and in that menu, there is a link that says "Invite so and so to a private topic". So you can start private topics with various posters that way. Of course, that method relies on the poster somehow being made aware of a private topic.
Another way is to click on the nickname, and click "view public profile for so and so". That will show you if there is a publically listed email address for that person.
And there used to be another way, I'm not sure if it's available or not, where you could click on something and it would allow you to send a private anonymous email to that poster. But I don't know where it is, if it still exists.
Welcome {{{{{teknon20}}}}}! (that's a cyber hug, if you don't mind. :)--> )
I hope that you will find a comfortable table around the cafe and enjoy participating in some conversations. It takes awhile, sometimes, but I know that as you get used to each poster's personality and get used to knowing where you're comfortable, you'll want to jump in somewhere. As you did here with your own topic! Impressive! :)-->
teknon...God bless you!! For your honesty in realizing the truth in some of these areas...some of what you read is VERY hard to swallow, BUT its great...peacewise...once you come to grips with the WAY things really are/were.
I sure welcome you as well & please feel free to e-mail me as well if I can be of any help!! JJ
I can relate to your story quite a bit. I'll explain; I was raised Roman Catholic and never really felt connected to God, just kinda went through the motions. Met a guy whose family was involved with the Way, shed some light on a lot of the ''vain repetitions'' and ''man made traditions'' of the Catholic Church and began to feel a real connection to God and this family. Took the class and spoke in tongues for the first time in 1988.
My experience with TWI was not a bad one, not really. Now that is not to say that the experiences of other posters here should be discounted, they are truthful and sincere. I was very lucky because my TC's were my family and the branch that I belonged to were a great bunch of loving people.
I decided to leave TWI in '94 because I was divorcing my husband and I felt that he needed to fellowship with his family. I still love that family btw, and they are still in. Sadly, the tight knit relationship I had with them isn't there. I still see them from time to time, but it's just not the same. I left at a time when Martindale was on his ''no debt, homos are the debil'' tyrades and I'm glad to say I did.
I still have not found a ''church'' to feel at home, but I talk to the Father everyday and I know I am His, and He is mine. You don't need TWI to have a relationship with God, He knows your heart and He loves you.
My email addy is JNCKraft@aol.com, glad to help if you need it.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
teknon20, welcome to GS Cafe. It has been a rough ride for lots of people.
I never knew I had any problems with my 19 years 'in', till I started reading Waydale and then GS. Then all the fear came back to me. I realized that I was affected, though, in no way like many of the posters here.
I have read with chills down my spine about the misdeeds and downright crimes that have been committed by the men and women in charge of our lives. It hasnt changed, I dont believe. They just want you to think it is a 'gentler' Way Ministry.
You are welcome to start a private topic with me.
Please keep reading everything you can and get a clear picture of the YEARS of abuse in TWI.
You have come to the right place for answers. You wont find them in TWI. That I can say with the utmost of confidence.
you don't owe WayWorld - or any of the people there - a damn thing. NO explanations for your actions, no accounting of your movements or what you do with your money. It's YOUR life. No one has any business telling you how to lead it.
The influence TWI had on many of it's followers (myself included) was lightyears out of proportion to any good they did for them.
The entire ministry is set up, not to be of help or benefit to it's followers, but rather to provide a life of ease for it's leaders.
It's a bitter pill to swallow once you realize that you've been the victim of a horrible conjob, but life gets immeasurably better on the outside. It really does...
I'm so glad you're here. You sound like you've already done some mental inventory and are thinking things through and, heck, God will show you the rest (the parts that YOU need to know).
Just sit back, relax, and let HIM provide and have another cup of coffee on me!
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Teknon: Welcome, and God bless you! It can be a real shock to find out what was going on behind the scenes (it was to me, when I found out) but it's extremely sobering as well.
TWI never did speak for God, only He speaks for Him, and He puts things a hell of a lot better than they ever did.
Rest assured that:
1) You are NOT being tricked by the Adversary,
2) This is NOT just a bunch of sour grapes and grudges,
3) You WILL be better off by shedding waybrain, regardless of your subsequent beliefs, and
4) You will most definitely NOT be a grease spot by midnight! :)-->
quote:...I only know my experierce. For those still in things have seemingly changed for the better. The screaming has stopped. There seems to be a balance now. Personally my family has not subscribed to the mag or tapes for 2+ years. Our tithe is not regular. I don't participate in everything or volunteer like I used to. I rarely go to hookups (like one in the past 3 or 4 months). When I choose to stay home and watch tv instead of go to HHF, I don't always call and I rarely offer a reason why, nor am I asked.
Why be in an organization that you barely participate in or in one you in which you don't feel comfortabale supporting financially? Even moreso, why be a leader in that organization. I'm amazed they want you to teach and assist considering you don't subscribe to the Way Mag or tapes or abs regularly - because if you don't, you aren't up to speed on the "present truth".
I was in TWI for 29 years - my whole adult life. I've only been out for 3 1/2 years and see things clearer about everything in life without the benefit of TWI's teaching or guidance.
I'm glad the screaming has stopped - probably because the king of screamers was de-throned. But ask yourself some questions about things you have discovered here...
Did you know that TWI recently spent $29,000 on a TV commercial that aired on MSNBC which the producers will not air again because they discovered that TWI was considered a cult? Your ABS (no matter how much) paid for that.
Did you know that there is yet another law suit taking place in which the plaintiff is suing TWI for over 25 million dollars?
Are you aware that a former Way clergyman was arrested by TWI for attempting to go into the Way Woods to pay his respects to some of his former TWI collegues who have died?
Did they ever recant on the no debt policy? Can you have a mortgage and coordinate a fellowship?
How about a car loan?
Have they any explanation as to why Donna Martindale is still living at the former president's palatial log home at HQ's while her husband has been living in Toledo, apparently no longer allowed to attend TWI fellowships and (I have heard) marked and avoided?
There are so many questions you can ask but, IMO, I'll bet you won't get straight answers to most of them. (i.e. Craig and Donna's marriage is none of your business... we never had a no debt policy, we're just teaching what the bible says about debt, etc.)
Please feel free to contact me. You can click on my name to find my email address. Good luck and God bless you.
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Does your husband know you've been reading Grease Spot? How does he feel about TWI? Did you tell your HHF leader you were here? What do you think would happen if you did?
...I don't know who I am but life is for learning... we are stardust...size>face>color>
[This message was edited by Hope R. on February 10, 2004 at 16:26.]
And teknon, please don't feel too bad or beat yourself up about being "clueless." I think I can safely say that most of us here, if not all, were equally as clueless. But thank goodness we aren't anymore.
The truth is that leaders of TWI over the years have purposefully tried to keep the dark side of the organization hidden. Lots of things were done in secret. Yeah, I've been through the "how could I be so blind?" stage, and I'm sure many others here have, I just don't beat myself up over it anymore.
There is absolutely no need to say sorry. If anything, I am sorry, sorry that you are still with TWI. Things may have calmed down, and they probably will for a while. Their reputation has been damaged to a brink. They are going to keep the damage control up for a while. Martindale did before he launched his tyracy.
You will no doubt be allowed to "get away" with things for now. But look at what a lot of us are saying. TWI was, has and still is a CULT. It has been deemed that by every CULT study ever done. Some people now out are some of the leading Cult authorities on the internet. www.excultworld.com is one example.
I can tell you, I feel like I have been in a Cult, not because I read any books, but because it has taken me 6 years to recover from TWI. Times of wondering if I left the elite spot, or if the splinters are now the elite spot, or if it was all just a bunch of BS. What God told me, through his word, is that what Wierwille/Martindale taught, 90% right, 10% wrong. That 10% wrong throws the whole thing out the window. I am now in a church that I am comfortable with and now believe what Gods word really says, instead of relying on what TWI said it said in past translations.
I do hope that before TWI thinks things are better and tightens its grip on followers once again, that you and your family can make the concious decision to walk away. I will tell you, that it will take a while to recover from it, but your life will improve, God will not walk away from you, infact he will try as hard as he can to show you which way to go. Just don't stop trusting in him or listening for him. There are now so many times in the past that he told me which way to go, but I was not paying attention. I had just chose to turn away for a time.
Read these forums closely Teknon. Understand what people are saying about TWI. We were all there. Some have seen it first had, some have felt it first hand, and some got out before it happened to them.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
I was in twi almost 20 years. I couldn't stomach the thought of getting up in front of a bunch of wayfers to tell them I loved my life for the past twenty years. It would have been a lie. Part of my reason for leaving was because my local leadership was still trying to control my life. I talked to a lot of people when I went to the ACS in Nov. 2002, and I find that it is different in each area. So much for speaking the same thing.
I moved to my area after being on Staff for 5 years at HQ. I moved into a house with 2 other women. I worked days, Monday through Friday, and they worked mostly night with sporadic days off. They wanted to party when they got home, and they wanted to have friends from work coming over. That's all fine and dandy, but it was always on nights that I had to get up and work. I talked to them, and they didn't want to change their life-style, so I made a decision to move into my own apartment. I didn't think they should change the way they wanted to live, and I shouldn't either. I went to go get an apartment closer to my work place. I talked to my roommates (and my landlord who is in twi also). Everything was OK as far as I knew. I then called my fellowship coordinator to tell her I was moving. This move put me in in a different branch. She was fine at first, but then called me 10 minutes later to give me the "safety in a multitude of counselors" BS story and why didn't I talk to her before making such a big decision. She in turn talked to the branch coord (who was also the limb coord). And this big thing blew up about me not considering that I was leaving these poor girls in a bad situation. The girls never voiced this to me. They didn't even after I left. I stayed friends with them. I told that fellowship coord that I didn't question my need for counsel as I was making the best decision for my life.
In addition to this, I was told by my BC to tell people who inquired about the situation at HQ when lcm left to talk to their fellowship coordinators. I was not to talk about it at all.
I was told by the same BC that my relationship with my boyfriend should not affect the household or there would be no marriage for us. I guess that meant we would have to go outside the household to get married. -->
One of my roommates was demanded by our FC to come over to get her a$$ chewed. My roommate was bed-ridden sick, and the FC knew this. So much for the best leader first being the best servant......
The same FC DEMANDED that we attend her functions. She had fellowship 2 times a week plus 1 or 2 functions a week. Those functions were usually witnessing. We all got tired of twi being our life. We usually decided not to go. We got questioned when we didn't.
I saw twi spoke out both sides of it's mouth. I also know that I wasn't too impressed by the current president while I was at HQ. She was bitchy to me once, so I guess I have a bad taste in my mouth. She has no charisma, and I don't trust her to be my leader personally. Not to mention that I really felt like a twi slave on staff. We worked our arses off. When I first started, we worked 55 hours a week. Try making up work that is not there just so you can put in your time........now that's what I call quality of life....NOT!!!
Just a few things I wanted to share. Sorry it got so long. I was clueless too. Being on Staff and then coming to GSC helped open my eyes to twi's bad habits which started from the foundations with vpw.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
[This message was edited by Wayfer Not! on February 10, 2004 at 20:09.]
Thank you so much for all your encouragement. My hubby has been supportive of my "wonderings" and knows for me to be fully persuaded I may have to explore what else is "out there". (yes he is aware that I'm reading websites) Because Way doctrine is all I've ever been taught he feels once I see the alternatives in the churches I will basically feel icky enough to run back into the arms of the way. He asks for me to support him in his way endeavors and insists that the children be involved. When I did not show at a recent event apparently our current fc said something about my hubby about my absence and being the head of the house blah blah blah and hubby jumped all over him in front God and everyone present. Even the Rev chuckled about it saying the fc had some things to overcome (I assume in the area of minding his own business?) Hubby and I are planning a sit down q&a sessions with the Rev, as the Rev insists he had lots of good answers to peoples questions. Apparently I'm not the only one "challenged". We'll see how it pans out.
In the meantime I do appreciate the email invites and I will open up more as time permits.
Teknon: It could just mean that HQ has just cooked up a good cover story for all the crap they've pulled and the Rev has the latest copy of it.
In my opinion, TWI has slid so far into iniquity that they cannot climb back out. Look to God. He'll lead you where you need to go if you can squint hard through the TWI-blinders.
The church that I am in has more to offer than TWI ever did. At first I was skeptical. But God is forever fighting fo our hearts. Every bible study I have been to, has done nothing but HEAL my wounds, from being in TWI, to even healing other wounds in my life. Every sermon, and every bible study I have walked into, I have walked out feeling that God himself was there and talking to me.
Listen to God. Not with your Way-brain, but with the heart that God gave you. There is no way you can deny that he wants the best for you. And TWI is no longer going to do it. They have tripped and fallen flat on their face. The embarrassment they have is contempt for the people that tripped them. They are not humble enough to release what they know they should.
But I forgive them. Why? Because God says I should. He told me personally. I forgive, and God will help me heal that wound.
So tell your husband that the alternative of being in the Way, is a better life and a greater understanding of God. Some people here will have a longer time to heal their wounds. Wounds run DEEP. You have an opportunity, to stitch your wounds as you leave, and not let it get deeper down the road.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
The church that I am in has more to offer than TWI ever did. At first I was skeptical. But God is forever fighting for our hearts. Every bible study I have been to, has done nothing but HEAL my wounds, from being in TWI, to even healing other wounds in my life. Every sermon, and every bible study I have walked into, I have walked out feeling that God himself was there and talking to me.
Listen to God. Not with your Way-brain, but with the heart that God gave you. There is no way you can deny that he wants the best for you. And TWI is no longer going to do it. They have tripped and fallen flat on their face. The embarrassment they have is contempt for the people that tripped them. They are not humble enough to release what they know they should.
So tell your husband that the alternative of being in the Way, is a better life and a greater understanding of God.
I was in twi for 22 years and my heart was hardened toward Christian churches outside twi. So I drove an hour to attend an extwi fellowship for a while. Finally I searched churches close to home...UCC, Baptist, Evangelical Reformed, and several non-denominational churches.
I am blessed to have found a church that has a pastor with a real Dr. degree.
We have communion service every week, which I prefer to once a year or once a month. The children are taught and I get as much from that as the adult sermon.
Please beware of twi seducing you and hubby to be HHF2 coordinators. TWI seduced a 5 year friend of mine by telling (flattering)her "you have a longsuit in word of wisdom". She was "allowed" to teach and was hooked...her ego wanted to a twi insider.
We attend a real church now because our children are so much more better off than in twi. The above quote really takes the words out of my mouth. God bless you.
Well, if I had any doubts about the fact that there are thoughtful and questioning people still in TWI, I don't now. So glad you posted teknon.
Your approach to these issues (as evidenced by your words) will serve you well. Contact with others is a great idea. I suspect you'll be able to temper the potential deluge of advice (always a good idea). Seems like you've got a pretty fine internal meter working in your favor.
Teknon, welcome to the GSpot! I am glad your husband is supporting your “searching”. My family does not and they are very afraid of being M&A if one of us was to be on the evil internet. They are also afraid to leave twi because they think that God will no longer protect us and that bad things will happen if we leave. God has not given us the spirit of fear, but twi has done a darn good job at it. Twi has tried to break into my e-mail and tried to sign on as me here at the GSpot, so they do watch and they do care about people reading about them, especially those who are still in. Please be careful about what you post on here unless you are ready to see the wolf (twi leadership) jump out of it’s sheep costume.
My family also thinks that no one teaches the truth like twi. Of course they are wrong, but they do not know that because they refuse to even consider other people’s teachings. The fact of the matter is everything twi teaches was copied and plagiarized from others and/or is totally wrong. There are many threads and Rafael and someone else I can’t remember right now both have excellent websites that goes into details. Personal Freedom Outreach has a small pamplet that documents the plagiarism by vpw and it’s only $1.50.
www.excultworld.com has the actual transcripts of rosa-lie and other twi leaders lying in court.
A Day That Will Live in Infamy is on the front page of the GSpot here. This is about a suicide tied to twi and the people who facilitated the events and refused to stop them are still in charge at twi. Are these people pastors over God’s people? I think not.
I didn’t sleep for weeks, maybe months, after finding out all the corruption that has been going on and hidden from people. I read The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse and Release from the Bonds or something like that by Steve Hassan. Both books helped me a lot. I can not recommend both of them highly enough.
Did you know that while lcm was yelling and screaming and kicking people out for not selling their homes twi was building a multi-million dollar expansion that was completely unnecessary onto the corps chalet? The same multi-million dollar palace where donna martindale still lives? Did you know that she never lost her wc status and serves as rosa-lie’s assistant and has not suffered one bit even though all other corps couples are treated as a couple and both face the same consequences if one of them were to get in trouble with twi? Many couples have been M&A’d for extremely trivial matters.
Did you know they are not paying for Mrs. VPW to be taken care of as promised? Nope. They aren’t forking over one red cent for her care despite how the fax read to your fellowhip may have sounded.
Did you know that there is one region coordinator’s wife who counseled many many many women abused by craig martindale and never once did anything about it, to stop it and she even lied to believers when they asked her about having knowledge of the abuse?
There’s so much, Teknon. So much more than I ever imagined and so much more help and support here than I ever felt in twi. My e-mail is not public, but you can open a private topic with me and I will give you my e-mail address. I have to be very careful because I do not want to lose my family and, in my area, I know for certain that they try very hard to break up families if one person wants out and the other doesn’t. I do not want to lose my family. What the he** kind of Christian organization does that to people????? Not a Godly one – that’s for sure!!
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Nottawayfer
Teknon20,
I know exactly how you feel. I was where you were just a little over a year ago.
You can see people's email if they put it on their profile. To see profiles, you click on the person's name in a post and then view public profile. If people choose to be emailed, they will put their email in their public profile.
Welcome to the cafe! There's a lot to learn here.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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Steve!
There are a couple of things that you can do to contact posters here.
One is to click on that poster's nickname, and then a menu pops up, and in that menu, there is a link that says "Invite so and so to a private topic". So you can start private topics with various posters that way. Of course, that method relies on the poster somehow being made aware of a private topic.
Another way is to click on the nickname, and click "view public profile for so and so". That will show you if there is a publically listed email address for that person.
And there used to be another way, I'm not sure if it's available or not, where you could click on something and it would allow you to send a private anonymous email to that poster. But I don't know where it is, if it still exists.
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Raf
Be happy to help in any way.
rafael@livingepistlessociety.org
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ex10
Yeah, me too.
jolise126@yahoo.com
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CoolWaters
Welcome {{{{{teknon20}}}}}! (that's a cyber hug, if you don't mind.
:)--> )
I hope that you will find a comfortable table around the cafe and enjoy participating in some conversations. It takes awhile, sometimes, but I know that as you get used to each poster's personality and get used to knowing where you're comfortable, you'll want to jump in somewhere. As you did here with your own topic! Impressive!
:)-->
?????????????
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Second James
teknon...God bless you!! For your honesty in realizing the truth in some of these areas...some of what you read is VERY hard to swallow, BUT its great...peacewise...once you come to grips with the WAY things really are/were.
I sure welcome you as well & please feel free to e-mail me as well if I can be of any help!! JJ
jj
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jezusfreaky
Welcome the the 'ol greasy spoon, Teknon...
I can relate to your story quite a bit. I'll explain; I was raised Roman Catholic and never really felt connected to God, just kinda went through the motions. Met a guy whose family was involved with the Way, shed some light on a lot of the ''vain repetitions'' and ''man made traditions'' of the Catholic Church and began to feel a real connection to God and this family. Took the class and spoke in tongues for the first time in 1988.
My experience with TWI was not a bad one, not really. Now that is not to say that the experiences of other posters here should be discounted, they are truthful and sincere. I was very lucky because my TC's were my family and the branch that I belonged to were a great bunch of loving people.
I decided to leave TWI in '94 because I was divorcing my husband and I felt that he needed to fellowship with his family. I still love that family btw, and they are still in. Sadly, the tight knit relationship I had with them isn't there. I still see them from time to time, but it's just not the same. I left at a time when Martindale was on his ''no debt, homos are the debil'' tyrades and I'm glad to say I did.
I still have not found a ''church'' to feel at home, but I talk to the Father everyday and I know I am His, and He is mine. You don't need TWI to have a relationship with God, He knows your heart and He loves you.
My email addy is JNCKraft@aol.com, glad to help if you need it.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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year2027
Hi Teknon20
You can Email me any time
rp2027@bbtel.com
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act2
teknon20, welcome to GS Cafe. It has been a rough ride for lots of people.
I never knew I had any problems with my 19 years 'in', till I started reading Waydale and then GS. Then all the fear came back to me. I realized that I was affected, though, in no way like many of the posters here.
I have read with chills down my spine about the misdeeds and downright crimes that have been committed by the men and women in charge of our lives. It hasnt changed, I dont believe. They just want you to think it is a 'gentler' Way Ministry.
You are welcome to start a private topic with me.
Please keep reading everything you can and get a clear picture of the YEARS of abuse in TWI.
You have come to the right place for answers. You wont find them in TWI. That I can say with the utmost of confidence.
The decisions we make today form our future.
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George Aar
And, if I may,
you don't owe WayWorld - or any of the people there - a damn thing. NO explanations for your actions, no accounting of your movements or what you do with your money. It's YOUR life. No one has any business telling you how to lead it.
The influence TWI had on many of it's followers (myself included) was lightyears out of proportion to any good they did for them.
The entire ministry is set up, not to be of help or benefit to it's followers, but rather to provide a life of ease for it's leaders.
It's a bitter pill to swallow once you realize that you've been the victim of a horrible conjob, but life gets immeasurably better on the outside. It really does...
geo.
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waterbuffalo
Welcome to the Cafe, Teknon!
I'm so glad you're here. You sound like you've already done some mental inventory and are thinking things through and, heck, God will show you the rest (the parts that YOU need to know).
Just sit back, relax, and let HIM provide and have another cup of coffee on me!
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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Zixar
Teknon: Welcome, and God bless you! It can be a real shock to find out what was going on behind the scenes (it was to me, when I found out) but it's extremely sobering as well.
TWI never did speak for God, only He speaks for Him, and He puts things a hell of a lot better than they ever did.
Rest assured that:
1) You are NOT being tricked by the Adversary,
2) This is NOT just a bunch of sour grapes and grudges,
3) You WILL be better off by shedding waybrain, regardless of your subsequent beliefs, and
4) You will most definitely NOT be a grease spot by midnight!
:)-->
At your service, in Christ's name,
Zixar
reecew [at] excite [dot] com
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Hope R.
Welcom Teknon -
you wrote:
Why be in an organization that you barely participate in or in one you in which you don't feel comfortabale supporting financially? Even moreso, why be a leader in that organization. I'm amazed they want you to teach and assist considering you don't subscribe to the Way Mag or tapes or abs regularly - because if you don't, you aren't up to speed on the "present truth".
I was in TWI for 29 years - my whole adult life. I've only been out for 3 1/2 years and see things clearer about everything in life without the benefit of TWI's teaching or guidance.
I'm glad the screaming has stopped - probably because the king of screamers was de-throned. But ask yourself some questions about things you have discovered here...
Did you know that TWI recently spent $29,000 on a TV commercial that aired on MSNBC which the producers will not air again because they discovered that TWI was considered a cult? Your ABS (no matter how much) paid for that.
Did you know that there is yet another law suit taking place in which the plaintiff is suing TWI for over 25 million dollars?
Are you aware that a former Way clergyman was arrested by TWI for attempting to go into the Way Woods to pay his respects to some of his former TWI collegues who have died?
Did they ever recant on the no debt policy? Can you have a mortgage and coordinate a fellowship?
How about a car loan?
Have they any explanation as to why Donna Martindale is still living at the former president's palatial log home at HQ's while her husband has been living in Toledo, apparently no longer allowed to attend TWI fellowships and (I have heard) marked and avoided?
There are so many questions you can ask but, IMO, I'll bet you won't get straight answers to most of them. (i.e. Craig and Donna's marriage is none of your business... we never had a no debt policy, we're just teaching what the bible says about debt, etc.)
Please feel free to contact me. You can click on my name to find my email address. Good luck and God bless you.
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Does your husband know you've been reading Grease Spot? How does he feel about TWI? Did you tell your HHF leader you were here? What do you think would happen if you did?
...I don't know who I am but life is for learning... we are stardust...size>face>color>
[This message was edited by Hope R. on February 10, 2004 at 16:26.]
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ex10
And teknon, please don't feel too bad or beat yourself up about being "clueless." I think I can safely say that most of us here, if not all, were equally as clueless. But thank goodness we aren't anymore.
The truth is that leaders of TWI over the years have purposefully tried to keep the dark side of the organization hidden. Lots of things were done in secret. Yeah, I've been through the "how could I be so blind?" stage, and I'm sure many others here have, I just don't beat myself up over it anymore.
I wish you the best.
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WrestlenotAgainst
Teknon,
There is absolutely no need to say sorry. If anything, I am sorry, sorry that you are still with TWI. Things may have calmed down, and they probably will for a while. Their reputation has been damaged to a brink. They are going to keep the damage control up for a while. Martindale did before he launched his tyracy.
You will no doubt be allowed to "get away" with things for now. But look at what a lot of us are saying. TWI was, has and still is a CULT. It has been deemed that by every CULT study ever done. Some people now out are some of the leading Cult authorities on the internet. www.excultworld.com is one example.
I can tell you, I feel like I have been in a Cult, not because I read any books, but because it has taken me 6 years to recover from TWI. Times of wondering if I left the elite spot, or if the splinters are now the elite spot, or if it was all just a bunch of BS. What God told me, through his word, is that what Wierwille/Martindale taught, 90% right, 10% wrong. That 10% wrong throws the whole thing out the window. I am now in a church that I am comfortable with and now believe what Gods word really says, instead of relying on what TWI said it said in past translations.
I do hope that before TWI thinks things are better and tightens its grip on followers once again, that you and your family can make the concious decision to walk away. I will tell you, that it will take a while to recover from it, but your life will improve, God will not walk away from you, infact he will try as hard as he can to show you which way to go. Just don't stop trusting in him or listening for him. There are now so many times in the past that he told me which way to go, but I was not paying attention. I had just chose to turn away for a time.
Read these forums closely Teknon. Understand what people are saying about TWI. We were all there. Some have seen it first had, some have felt it first hand, and some got out before it happened to them.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
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WordWolf
Welcome to the cafe, Teknon!
Congratulations on having the courage to face this. It's NOT
easy, but, as many of us know from experience, it IS
survivable.
(Most of us have faced it, at least.)
There's a LOT of material accessible from the main page
of the website, http://www.greasespotcafe.com
from the menu on the left.
In the meantime, feel free to start private topics if you
want to ask some questions privately.
We understand the need for circumspection here-
most of us, anyway.
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gladtobeout
Teknon
I understand how you feel. If you ever need to talk, please e-mail at gladtobeout@hotmail.com
please say HI from a greasespotter or I'll think it is junk mail
I'll be praying for you
YIPPEE!!!!!
We made it...
Gladtobeout
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Nottawayfer
Teknon20:
I was in twi almost 20 years. I couldn't stomach the thought of getting up in front of a bunch of wayfers to tell them I loved my life for the past twenty years. It would have been a lie. Part of my reason for leaving was because my local leadership was still trying to control my life. I talked to a lot of people when I went to the ACS in Nov. 2002, and I find that it is different in each area. So much for speaking the same thing.
I moved to my area after being on Staff for 5 years at HQ. I moved into a house with 2 other women. I worked days, Monday through Friday, and they worked mostly night with sporadic days off. They wanted to party when they got home, and they wanted to have friends from work coming over. That's all fine and dandy, but it was always on nights that I had to get up and work. I talked to them, and they didn't want to change their life-style, so I made a decision to move into my own apartment. I didn't think they should change the way they wanted to live, and I shouldn't either. I went to go get an apartment closer to my work place. I talked to my roommates (and my landlord who is in twi also). Everything was OK as far as I knew. I then called my fellowship coordinator to tell her I was moving. This move put me in in a different branch. She was fine at first, but then called me 10 minutes later to give me the "safety in a multitude of counselors" BS story and why didn't I talk to her before making such a big decision. She in turn talked to the branch coord (who was also the limb coord). And this big thing blew up about me not considering that I was leaving these poor girls in a bad situation. The girls never voiced this to me. They didn't even after I left. I stayed friends with them. I told that fellowship coord that I didn't question my need for counsel as I was making the best decision for my life.
In addition to this, I was told by my BC to tell people who inquired about the situation at HQ when lcm left to talk to their fellowship coordinators. I was not to talk about it at all.
I was told by the same BC that my relationship with my boyfriend should not affect the household or there would be no marriage for us. I guess that meant we would have to go outside the household to get married.
-->
One of my roommates was demanded by our FC to come over to get her a$$ chewed. My roommate was bed-ridden sick, and the FC knew this. So much for the best leader first being the best servant......
The same FC DEMANDED that we attend her functions. She had fellowship 2 times a week plus 1 or 2 functions a week. Those functions were usually witnessing. We all got tired of twi being our life. We usually decided not to go. We got questioned when we didn't.
I saw twi spoke out both sides of it's mouth. I also know that I wasn't too impressed by the current president while I was at HQ. She was bitchy to me once, so I guess I have a bad taste in my mouth. She has no charisma, and I don't trust her to be my leader personally. Not to mention that I really felt like a twi slave on staff. We worked our arses off. When I first started, we worked 55 hours a week. Try making up work that is not there just so you can put in your time........now that's what I call quality of life....NOT!!!
Just a few things I wanted to share. Sorry it got so long. I was clueless too. Being on Staff and then coming to GSC helped open my eyes to twi's bad habits which started from the foundations with vpw.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
[This message was edited by Wayfer Not! on February 10, 2004 at 20:09.]
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teknon20
Thank you so much for all your encouragement. My hubby has been supportive of my "wonderings" and knows for me to be fully persuaded I may have to explore what else is "out there". (yes he is aware that I'm reading websites) Because Way doctrine is all I've ever been taught he feels once I see the alternatives in the churches I will basically feel icky enough to run back into the arms of the way. He asks for me to support him in his way endeavors and insists that the children be involved. When I did not show at a recent event apparently our current fc said something about my hubby about my absence and being the head of the house blah blah blah and hubby jumped all over him in front God and everyone present. Even the Rev chuckled about it saying the fc had some things to overcome (I assume in the area of minding his own business?) Hubby and I are planning a sit down q&a sessions with the Rev, as the Rev insists he had lots of good answers to peoples questions. Apparently I'm not the only one "challenged". We'll see how it pans out.
In the meantime I do appreciate the email invites and I will open up more as time permits.
Again thanks for the encouragement.
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Zixar
Teknon: It could just mean that HQ has just cooked up a good cover story for all the crap they've pulled and the Rev has the latest copy of it.
In my opinion, TWI has slid so far into iniquity that they cannot climb back out. Look to God. He'll lead you where you need to go if you can squint hard through the TWI-blinders.
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WrestlenotAgainst
The church that I am in has more to offer than TWI ever did. At first I was skeptical. But God is forever fighting fo our hearts. Every bible study I have been to, has done nothing but HEAL my wounds, from being in TWI, to even healing other wounds in my life. Every sermon, and every bible study I have walked into, I have walked out feeling that God himself was there and talking to me.
Listen to God. Not with your Way-brain, but with the heart that God gave you. There is no way you can deny that he wants the best for you. And TWI is no longer going to do it. They have tripped and fallen flat on their face. The embarrassment they have is contempt for the people that tripped them. They are not humble enough to release what they know they should.
But I forgive them. Why? Because God says I should. He told me personally. I forgive, and God will help me heal that wound.
So tell your husband that the alternative of being in the Way, is a better life and a greater understanding of God. Some people here will have a longer time to heal their wounds. Wounds run DEEP. You have an opportunity, to stitch your wounds as you leave, and not let it get deeper down the road.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
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Golfie
eknon20,
WrestlenotAgainst posted this and I say a BIG AMEN to it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
The church that I am in has more to offer than TWI ever did. At first I was skeptical. But God is forever fighting for our hearts. Every bible study I have been to, has done nothing but HEAL my wounds, from being in TWI, to even healing other wounds in my life. Every sermon, and every bible study I have walked into, I have walked out feeling that God himself was there and talking to me.
Listen to God. Not with your Way-brain, but with the heart that God gave you. There is no way you can deny that he wants the best for you. And TWI is no longer going to do it. They have tripped and fallen flat on their face. The embarrassment they have is contempt for the people that tripped them. They are not humble enough to release what they know they should.
So tell your husband that the alternative of being in the Way, is a better life and a greater understanding of God.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was in twi for 22 years and my heart was hardened toward Christian churches outside twi. So I drove an hour to attend an extwi fellowship for a while. Finally I searched churches close to home...UCC, Baptist, Evangelical Reformed, and several non-denominational churches.
I am blessed to have found a church that has a pastor with a real Dr. degree.
We have communion service every week, which I prefer to once a year or once a month. The children are taught and I get as much from that as the adult sermon.
Please beware of twi seducing you and hubby to be HHF2 coordinators. TWI seduced a 5 year friend of mine by telling (flattering)her "you have a longsuit in word of wisdom". She was "allowed" to teach and was hooked...her ego wanted to a twi insider.
We attend a real church now because our children are so much more better off than in twi. The above quote really takes the words out of my mouth. God bless you.
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pamsandiego
Well, if I had any doubts about the fact that there are thoughtful and questioning people still in TWI, I don't now. So glad you posted teknon.
Your approach to these issues (as evidenced by your words) will serve you well. Contact with others is a great idea. I suspect you'll be able to temper the potential deluge of advice (always a good idea). Seems like you've got a pretty fine internal meter working in your favor.
Welcome to GreaseSpot!
Pam
pamsandiego@hotmail.com
Pam's somewhat random yet marginally intriguing link-of-the-week
[This message was edited by pamsandiego on February 11, 2004 at 0:53.]
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insurgent
Teknon, welcome to the GSpot! I am glad your husband is supporting your “searching”. My family does not and they are very afraid of being M&A if one of us was to be on the evil internet. They are also afraid to leave twi because they think that God will no longer protect us and that bad things will happen if we leave. God has not given us the spirit of fear, but twi has done a darn good job at it. Twi has tried to break into my e-mail and tried to sign on as me here at the GSpot, so they do watch and they do care about people reading about them, especially those who are still in. Please be careful about what you post on here unless you are ready to see the wolf (twi leadership) jump out of it’s sheep costume.
My family also thinks that no one teaches the truth like twi. Of course they are wrong, but they do not know that because they refuse to even consider other people’s teachings. The fact of the matter is everything twi teaches was copied and plagiarized from others and/or is totally wrong. There are many threads and Rafael and someone else I can’t remember right now both have excellent websites that goes into details. Personal Freedom Outreach has a small pamplet that documents the plagiarism by vpw and it’s only $1.50.
www.excultworld.com has the actual transcripts of rosa-lie and other twi leaders lying in court.
A Day That Will Live in Infamy is on the front page of the GSpot here. This is about a suicide tied to twi and the people who facilitated the events and refused to stop them are still in charge at twi. Are these people pastors over God’s people? I think not.
I didn’t sleep for weeks, maybe months, after finding out all the corruption that has been going on and hidden from people. I read The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse and Release from the Bonds or something like that by Steve Hassan. Both books helped me a lot. I can not recommend both of them highly enough.
Did you know that while lcm was yelling and screaming and kicking people out for not selling their homes twi was building a multi-million dollar expansion that was completely unnecessary onto the corps chalet? The same multi-million dollar palace where donna martindale still lives? Did you know that she never lost her wc status and serves as rosa-lie’s assistant and has not suffered one bit even though all other corps couples are treated as a couple and both face the same consequences if one of them were to get in trouble with twi? Many couples have been M&A’d for extremely trivial matters.
Did you know they are not paying for Mrs. VPW to be taken care of as promised? Nope. They aren’t forking over one red cent for her care despite how the fax read to your fellowhip may have sounded.
Did you know that there is one region coordinator’s wife who counseled many many many women abused by craig martindale and never once did anything about it, to stop it and she even lied to believers when they asked her about having knowledge of the abuse?
There’s so much, Teknon. So much more than I ever imagined and so much more help and support here than I ever felt in twi. My e-mail is not public, but you can open a private topic with me and I will give you my e-mail address. I have to be very careful because I do not want to lose my family and, in my area, I know for certain that they try very hard to break up families if one person wants out and the other doesn’t. I do not want to lose my family. What the he** kind of Christian organization does that to people????? Not a Godly one – that’s for sure!!
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