It's not like that. . . they think they are right. . . that is why it goes on. . . and on. . . and on. . .
it's the heart thing. . .
except there has been so much hurt and destruction to people's lives and hearts that it's gone totally beyond that!!
but i don't think they see it that way
as far as I can see, no more excuses -- using people is using people. period! and anyone who does this horrible act will for sure be accountable before God!
just think how God must see it -- i don't know for sure, but i see it as. . .
people using another person's love for God to take advantage of them. . .
how incredibly desceitful can that possibly be? sorry, i know i mispelled some werds. . . but don't see where spell check is!
For me. . . that is the biggest offence there is -- taking advantage of a person's love for God.
My goodness! how evil can you get???????? ??????????? ???????????? ????????????? ????????????? ????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ??????????????
[This message was edited by pawtucket on February 26, 2004 at 7:50.]
Hi, let's see? LCM a copout, sinner, child of God, I guess that makes him one of us eh? Maybe he got smart imself? Once one said,"I've been whipped so much that I like whipping others now.:)--> P.S. God still is love.
I know many people still in consider Craig to truely be a MOG more along the lines of Solomon. They think he is/was very wise and that he just made some bad choices.
Don't be fooled. Many people in TWI still respect him and everything he taught very highly.
:(--> :D--> Hi, Dear friends and countrymen alike. :(--> --> I just wanted you to know that I did not do the above post. That was my dear old forgiving hubby using my handle,cuz he ain't registered. :P--> -->
But he said you all would think it was me lol. I told him that you know I wouldn't post anything positive about Loy Boy. :o--> :(-->
Except I did say in another thread that I had to forgive LCM and VPW, cuz it hurts my head to hate anyone, but that doesn't mean that won't take a lick at them for what they did. As far as I'm concerned they took a perfect (almost) --> ministry and trashed it along with other leadership. --> :(-->
and I truely resent that fact, that they stole my money, and 23 years of my life, the only thing they didn't steal was my sweet forgiving hubby. That issue has cause alot of mysery for both of us. But I wouldn't want him any other way. He has such a dear tender sweet heart that he can forgive anyone, even me when I go on my tirads from time to time on this very subject, anyway He confessed this morning that he posted using my handle. I told him "they" will know its not me, so he told me to go ahead and tell you guys about it.
I told him if he wants to post in here he should register with his handle.
And if he needs help I will help him. Now where did I leave the spoon?lol :P-->
God Bless his beautiful heart, and ROY'S too :D-->
The only reason he wanted to read here is because of Roy's beautiful heart for Gods people. I been hoping that he would come in and at least read some of our stuff, and he was looking over my shoulder at a post by Roy and asked if he could read some more in here, I said yes and since it was 12:30 AM I was going to bed, didn't know he would spend hours looking at posts.
Some of you have read my posts on John Hendricks, and so did he, and he told me that I was off on some points about John, don't know which tho so I can't retract what I may have said. I'm going to ask him to talk about John cuz he knows him a lot better than I do. ;)-->
Once, a young man, I prayed a very serious heart-anxious prayer."Lord, do not let me ever be a cop-out on You." God kept my prayer for years later when I found the way out of the Way. Thank you, Lord Jesus.
So Craig, rejoice and be very glad the Way calls you a cop-out, it is a good thing. You have been very sick in spirit. I know for I saw and heard you. I hope you are healing.
Martindale was very conscious of his "superiority," and thought of himself as chosen by God for his exceptional talents and abilities and discipline etc.
If you missed his "administration," you missed an arrogant jock (by his behavior) lording his authority over a lot of naive followers.
That's about it, Jim.
He used to say he could be working for a fortune 500 company if it wasn't for all of us.
Also, was he really that much of a jock? Is there anywhere on the internet that verifies his so called football success?
He used to say he could be working for a fortune 500 company if it wasn't for all of us.
Also, was he really that much of a jock? Is there anywhere on the internet that verifies his so called football success?
He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it.
But he might be working for one now - who knows?
Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially.
I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.
He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it.
But he might be working for one now - who knows?
Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially.
I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.
Nope, still moping around Toledo. Still, as I understand, living in that TWI paid for home and receiving a respectable (size) pension. Woe is him.
Nope, still moping around Toledo. Still, as I understand, living in that TWI paid for home and receiving a respectable (size) pension. Woe is him.
That's right, he did say running. This delusion was passed on to many twi leaders too. They truly thought the world would be begging for them to manage them. It was a rude awakening for many. That's why they mope.
What about the college football success? Was that ever true? I don't see anywhere he was even mentioned. But I may not be looking in the right place.
He used to say he could be working for a fortune 500 company if it wasn't for all of us.
Also, was he really that much of a jock? Is there anywhere on the internet that verifies his so called football success?
vpw was a basketball player in HIGH SCHOOL and was never on the team in college.
(He said "played basketball all through college", but he never tried to actually say
outright he was on either a varsity or junior varsity team.)
vpw never played for any team after college. (He said he was "involved with the
Sheboygan Redskins" but never actually claimed to play for them. He did claim to
invent the hook shot.) In short, vpw was a bit athlete who wasn't really one in college
and deceived people by creatively phrasing the truth to make it sound like he was
saying one thing when he was saying another.)
As for lcm, his football success was slightly more successful than vpw's basketball
"career." lcm played football in high school, and told us stories about how difficult
it was to learn the MECHANICS of college-level football. Before that, he just ran into
opponents, and now he had to learn a series of steps just to perform a block, and it
wasn't easy. In college, he "rode the bench" and lcm bragged about being on his team
when it was in the Orange Bowl, which was not a lie-
but lcm barely got off the bench in the big game.
He didn't get his uniform dirty in the big game.
"Craig came to HQ basiclly right out of college at KU. He told us while we visited the Corps Chalet (his home on grounds) that he had dreams to play pro football, like most guys who play Division 1 NCAA football do. He said he was a star in high school ball but when he got to the NCAA he realized that all he had to do in high school was grunt and push people out of the way.
Craig was always second string at KU. He told us how the COACHES felt other guys picked up the blocking schemes and techniques ("I had to LEARN stuff!" He said.) faster & better than he and played the other guys in practice more than he and he didn't get the opportunity he felt he deserved to prove himself. Therefore he warmed the bench, not playing as much as he wanted.
He was upset about his lack of playing time when KU went to the Orange Bowl. His team did actually go to the Orange bowl but Craig wasn't a starter, he hardly even got in the game at all. He didn't get his uniform dirty; that's an insult to a football player."
"Craig, to me always seemed a little too attached to his football career. It was pretty obvious to me that he felt he never really got the opportunity to show what he could do. He was angry about his lack of playing time. I believe he felt he was a Pro Bowl calibre player who was treated unfairly. That effected his performance, etc. he never got to play.
He rode the bench in the Orange Bowl and it really burned him. Does it make sense to you guys that his behavior through the years reflects that he was definitely gonna do it HIS way. He was gonna do whatever it took to get the reins then run it as he saw fit, IN YOUR FACE!!!!!"
It IS amazing George. About 98% of this stuff here is news to me. Unimaginable. Some of it is even illegal.
What I find most interesting is how this stuff If it were a movie, it could be called, "Revenge of the Wannabe" Starring L. Craig Martindale. The trailer would say, "Craig Martindale IS the wannabe."
You probably all know by now how Craig REALLY wanted to be a pro football player.
Here's an interesting parallel. I was reminded of this today as I was watching "Friday Night Lights" with my boys (decent flick BTW). For those who've never seen it, its based on a true story about a Texas High School football team's quest to win the 5A (the biggest schools), state championship.
The 5A level in Texas is as big time as HS football gets. In a few other states, like California, Pennsylvania, Florida & Ohio, the top players are a "lock" at NCAA Division 1 colleges and a "good bet" at having a shot at the NFL. Of course there are other HS guys accross the entire country that have a legitimate shot at "the league," but those 5 states get the lion's share of attention from higher level scouts. Oklahoma is arguably among the top five. I'm from PA. (We're the BEST & that's all there is to it. Each of the other states says exactly what I just did. Hey> It IS about competition... :)/>-->)
Craig was a decent player in HS. He felt he had a legitimate shot. But once he moved up a level to Division 1 NCAA he couldn't even start on a team that was not really that great. They had one of those "special" squads you get every so often & made the Orange Bowl one year. LCM rode the bench, the splinter squad, watching from the sidelines, wishing they could get in the game, etc.
The parallel here lies in how the star player in the movie, once he blew out his ACL, the realization hit him that his future NFL career was gone forever. He cried as he also realized that "playing football well is the ONLY thing I can do." Therefore he apparently had NO future at all. All his dreams, gone, poof! In an instant, he left them all on the field.
I all of LCM's rantings, teachings, et al. I can't, for the life of me, remember what his degree from KU is in? I don't even remember if he even finished his degree...??? I DO remember his stories about his football days. He talked about then "aal the time." His picture of the Orange Bowl he sat on the bench in was displayed prominently in his office in the Corps Chalet.
What else was he good at in high school, other than football?
After not having seen a Way Magazine since the last one I worked on in 1988; the first one I saw (about 15 years later) had a picture of him on the set of one of his new classes (I think it was the Adv. WAP). He was holding a football and that Orange Bowl picture was, again, prominently displayed.
That was erie. Now that he was firmly in charge, he had changed EVERYTHING to HIS way.
Now after hearing this stuff the parallels are even downright scary. There ABSOLUTELY IS a heirarchy in big time football. Rookies serve the veterans. If you were a starter as a junior, and basically all seniors made sophomores & freshmen clean our spikes carry our travel bags, etc.
"Go get me a towel." or "Get up! Give ME your seat." ... is not only normal, it is accepted and EXPECTED.
As varsity players, the team is a closed corporation "family." I was a two-sport varsity letterman at a Quad-A western PA High School. We were treated like rock stars in general. Our names were in the newspaper on a weekly basis, people all over the city knew who we were and would talk to us, give us favors, and do stuff like in the movie. Teachers gave us breaks in class at times, especailly the football players because our sport alone funds a large portion of the school's overall budget. When we walked around town in our lettermen jackets, jerseys or sweats. little kids would stare at us as we strutted by, then they'd say "Look mommy, he's a Big Tiger...." (Tiger was our mascot.) We had status, title, and all the perks that go with it.
Coaches don't ask, they DEMAND highly detailed adherance to their policies and procedures. You DON'T question the coach's scheme, you can ask a question, but when it all said & done, YOU bend YOUR will to the way the coach demands that it be done, PERIOD. THAT coach was there because "they" wanted HIM and things done HIS way, because HE was a WINNER. If you brought yourself around and totally sold out, giving your FULL allegiance to the coach's program, he'd lead you to "the promised land of the CHAMPIONSHIP." If the star player needed extra time in the whirlpool "regular" players would give their time up to the star(s), no argument; you contribute a few tackles to the effort, he, a few touchdowns. Bench-warmers don't even get time in whirlpool, even though you get just as sore as the star. Its understood among all involved that that's just "how it is."
Coaches yell and do all sorts of things to players that in other contexts are abusive, to say the least. If you don't like it, tough; don't let the door hit you in the foot on yer way out. If you CAN'T cut it, they cut YOU....goodbye.
I could go on but... I see erie similarities to TWI 2; only the context has changed, but the same types of things go on.
Thousands of guys every year accept the fact that they are NOT a world class player, even though they're very good, they're just never gonna run out of the tunnel to the cheers of thousands of adoring fans; the question, "Hey____! You just won the Super Bowl, what are you gonna do now?" just isn't in your future.
Craig never accepted that reality. He apparently saw TWI as his chance to ascend his throne to the world class status he felt he was robbed of by "not getting the opportunity" to show his stuff to the Orange Bowl's national audience.
I remember saying to him myself, when I first saw the picture, "Hey, I saw that game, I didn't know you were in it!" He went on to tell us the story later pointing out that he didn't get the opportunity to....
Regardless of what TWI was Before LCM, he definitely seems unnaturally fixated on the "big-time sports" life-style and turned TWI into an entity that allowed him to live his fantasy life, this time on top of the heap. His real life experience saw him as the wannabe major player, watching from the bench as the stars grabbed HIS glory.
I remember the first time hearing him teach his "new Ephesians 6 research" (like VPW's research) about the whole armor of God, thinking the "athletes of the spirit" thing was a "stretch." I wondered why he would ever even START to look for an athletic tie to the already crystal clear "soldier" metaphor. Yeah we went along with it though, I know I felt it was "harmless," another way to see it.
Then when he cast HIMSELF as THE athlete!!! Oh - my - God. In SPITE of the fact that he knew he had NO skills, NO training... the big Oakie, by definition, doesn't even have RHYTHM! He brought in "all" of the best "world class" dancers in the ministry... He didn't give one damn about anything other than thumbing his nose at anyone who ever said that he couldn't compete at the "top" athletic level.
If that's not a mid-life crisis, I don't know what is.
That attitude is what led to all the stupid things said & done during "confrontation" sessions; just my opinion.
I remember one time in rez. It was the Superbowl. We were all given the evening off so that we could watch the game live on TV - in fact, a big TV was installed in one of the rooms for this very purpose. A whole evening off! Bliss!!!
As a non-American, this event has no meaning for me. I had no idea what it was. For others in rez, some were not interested; some had other things to do; some were just plain tired and wanted some rest. This entire bunch of people did not go to watch the football on TV.
The next day, LCM himself came and reamed out the non-attenders. Came to "talk" to us all, and had a real screaming fit at those who did not go and watch TV. If we'd had any interest in him, we'd have watched the game - then, we'd have understood him better. He used that very phrase; I remember it now. (Basically, we should have been interested in the game because he was interested in it.)
I crawled out from that thinking, But you said it was time off. You didn't order us to attend. I'm supposed to be interested in The Word, not in your past life or history. I don't want to know what makes you tick, I want to know God better.
And I still didn't know what the Superbowl was. :rolleyes:/>
The next day, LCM himself came and reamed out the non-attenders. Came to "talk" to us all, and had a real screaming fit at those who did not go and watch TV. If we'd had any interest in him, we'd have watched the game - then, we'd have understood him better. He used that very phrase; I remember it now. (Basically, we should have been interested in the game because he was interested in it.)
So full of himself. Yeah, understanding him better? That he exaggerated his abilities and usefulness?
Although if the Olympics had throwing tantrums as a sport, he would have taken the gold medal.
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Sunny1
Dearest Papa John (I just love that pizza):
It's not like that. . . they think they are right. . . that is why it goes on. . . and on. . . and on. . .
it's the heart thing. . .
except there has been so much hurt and destruction to people's lives and hearts that it's gone totally beyond that!!
but i don't think they see it that way
as far as I can see, no more excuses -- using people is using people. period! and anyone who does this horrible act will for sure be accountable before God!
just think how God must see it -- i don't know for sure, but i see it as. . .
people using another person's love for God to take advantage of them. . .
how incredibly desceitful can that possibly be? sorry, i know i mispelled some werds. . . but don't see where spell check is!
For me. . . that is the biggest offence there is -- taking advantage of a person's love for God.
My goodness! how evil can you get???????? ??????????? ???????????? ????????????? ????????????? ????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ??????????????
[This message was edited by pawtucket on February 26, 2004 at 7:50.]
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wyteduv58
Hi, let's see? LCM a copout, sinner, child of God, I guess that makes him one of us eh? Maybe he got smart imself? Once one said,"I've been whipped so much that I like whipping others now.
:)--> P.S. God still is love.
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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WaywardWayfer
I know many people still in consider Craig to truely be a MOG more along the lines of Solomon. They think he is/was very wise and that he just made some bad choices.
Don't be fooled. Many people in TWI still respect him and everything he taught very highly.
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wyteduv58
But he said you all would think it was me lol. I told him that you know I wouldn't post anything positive about Loy Boy.
:o--> 
:(-->
Except I did say in another thread that I had to forgive LCM and VPW, cuz it hurts my head to hate anyone, but that doesn't mean that won't take a lick at them for what they did. As far as I'm concerned they took a perfect (almost)
--> ministry and trashed it along with other leadership. 
--> 
:(-->
and I truely resent that fact, that they stole my money, and 23 years of my life, the only thing they didn't steal was my sweet forgiving hubby. That issue has cause alot of mysery for both of us. But I wouldn't want him any other way. He has such a dear tender sweet heart that he can forgive anyone, even me when I go on my tirads from time to time on this very subject, anyway He confessed this morning that he posted using my handle. I told him "they" will know its not me, so he told me to go ahead and tell you guys about it.
I told him if he wants to post in here he should register with his handle.
And if he needs help I will help him. Now where did I leave the spoon?lol
:P--> 
God Bless his beautiful heart, and ROY'S too
:D-->
The only reason he wanted to read here is because of Roy's beautiful heart for Gods people. I been hoping that he would come in and at least read some of our stuff, and he was looking over my shoulder at a post by Roy and asked if he could read some more in here, I said yes and since it was 12:30 AM I was going to bed, didn't know he would spend hours looking at posts.
Some of you have read my posts on John Hendricks, and so did he, and he told me that I was off on some points about John, don't know which tho so I can't retract what I may have said. I'm going to ask him to talk about John cuz he knows him a lot better than I do.
;)-->
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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Juan Cruz
Once, a young man, I prayed a very serious heart-anxious prayer."Lord, do not let me ever be a cop-out on You." God kept my prayer for years later when I found the way out of the Way. Thank you, Lord Jesus.
So Craig, rejoice and be very glad the Way calls you a cop-out, it is a good thing. You have been very sick in spirit. I know for I saw and heard you. I hope you are healing.
All the best,
Juan
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excathedra
and all the best to you juan
?
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Groucho
Is he still driving a delivery truck?
What a moron...arrogant, stupid, overbearing, self serving and dishonest...a bad combination every time.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
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100% Free
He used to say he could be working for a fortune 500 company if it wasn't for all of us.
Also, was he really that much of a jock? Is there anywhere on the internet that verifies his so called football success?
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Twinky
He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it.
But he might be working for one now - who knows?
Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially.
I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.
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Rocky
Nope, still moping around Toledo. Still, as I understand, living in that TWI paid for home and receiving a respectable (size) pension. Woe is him.
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100% Free
That's right, he did say running. This delusion was passed on to many twi leaders too. They truly thought the world would be begging for them to manage them. It was a rude awakening for many. That's why they mope.
What about the college football success? Was that ever true? I don't see anywhere he was even mentioned. But I may not be looking in the right place.
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WordWolf
vpw was a basketball player in HIGH SCHOOL and was never on the team in college.
(He said "played basketball all through college", but he never tried to actually say
outright he was on either a varsity or junior varsity team.)
vpw never played for any team after college. (He said he was "involved with the
Sheboygan Redskins" but never actually claimed to play for them. He did claim to
invent the hook shot.) In short, vpw was a bit athlete who wasn't really one in college
and deceived people by creatively phrasing the truth to make it sound like he was
saying one thing when he was saying another.)
As for lcm, his football success was slightly more successful than vpw's basketball
"career." lcm played football in high school, and told us stories about how difficult
it was to learn the MECHANICS of college-level football. Before that, he just ran into
opponents, and now he had to learn a series of steps just to perform a block, and it
wasn't easy. In college, he "rode the bench" and lcm bragged about being on his team
when it was in the Orange Bowl, which was not a lie-
but lcm barely got off the bench in the big game.
He didn't get his uniform dirty in the big game.
"Craig came to HQ basiclly right out of college at KU. He told us while we visited the Corps Chalet (his home on grounds) that he had dreams to play pro football, like most guys who play Division 1 NCAA football do. He said he was a star in high school ball but when he got to the NCAA he realized that all he had to do in high school was grunt and push people out of the way.
Craig was always second string at KU. He told us how the COACHES felt other guys picked up the blocking schemes and techniques ("I had to LEARN stuff!" He said.) faster & better than he and played the other guys in practice more than he and he didn't get the opportunity he felt he deserved to prove himself. Therefore he warmed the bench, not playing as much as he wanted.
He was upset about his lack of playing time when KU went to the Orange Bowl. His team did actually go to the Orange bowl but Craig wasn't a starter, he hardly even got in the game at all. He didn't get his uniform dirty; that's an insult to a football player."
"Craig, to me always seemed a little too attached to his football career. It was pretty obvious to me that he felt he never really got the opportunity to show what he could do. He was angry about his lack of playing time. I believe he felt he was a Pro Bowl calibre player who was treated unfairly. That effected his performance, etc. he never got to play.
He rode the bench in the Orange Bowl and it really burned him. Does it make sense to you guys that his behavior through the years reflects that he was definitely gonna do it HIS way. He was gonna do whatever it took to get the reins then run it as he saw fit, IN YOUR FACE!!!!!"
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Twinky
I remember one time in rez. It was the Superbowl. We were all given the evening off so that we could watch the game live on TV - in fact, a big TV was installed in one of the rooms for this very purpose. A whole evening off! Bliss!!!
As a non-American, this event has no meaning for me. I had no idea what it was. For others in rez, some were not interested; some had other things to do; some were just plain tired and wanted some rest. This entire bunch of people did not go to watch the football on TV.
The next day, LCM himself came and reamed out the non-attenders. Came to "talk" to us all, and had a real screaming fit at those who did not go and watch TV. If we'd had any interest in him, we'd have watched the game - then, we'd have understood him better. He used that very phrase; I remember it now. (Basically, we should have been interested in the game because he was interested in it.)
I crawled out from that thinking, But you said it was time off. You didn't order us to attend. I'm supposed to be interested in The Word, not in your past life or history. I don't want to know what makes you tick, I want to know God better.
And I still didn't know what the Superbowl was. :rolleyes:/>
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100% Free
So full of himself. Yeah, understanding him better? That he exaggerated his abilities and usefulness?
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excathedra
how sad to read sunny's posts from what? 10 years ago? am i right about that? WTF am i doing here?
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100% Free
Don't think I ever knew Sunny. Are you ok Exie? Just had some questions and this topic seemed to fit. Hope you're ok.
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excathedra
oh no i'm fine pathetic as i am
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Broken Arrow
He said he played for Lakeland College, which is a very small school in Wisconsin. Claims to have made their Hall of Fame.
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excathedra
he probably claims to have the biggest you know what
which st. peter will absolutely keep him from entering through the golden gates
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