Krys, you must have been posting while I was still typing.
I don't want to see you go. I enjoy your posts, usuaally. We just happen to disagree on this issue. You think Rocky's the only one who stirred things up, and I think there were two people with a spoon in hand.
These skirmishes heat up from time to time and then they die down. I really don't think this particular one (they're always intense when we're in the midst of one) is going to mean the demise of GS.
I hope that you can bounce back after this fray and look at it from another perspective (when you are ready).
I too, recognize that l9ife is short...too short to engage in petty conflicts, as you already know.
I wonder if you are more upset with Rocky due to the inferences QQ made in another thread (in the past) where he added his spin on Rocky's response to you?
I don't think Rocky is laffin' his arse off over this thread, especially since criticizms are flying left and right.
What I do think is this ~
More is read where less is said!
It's usually what happens here...after all, it's a message board and cannot reveal the 'nature' or even the authentic 'personality' of another poster because it's just folks who leave a message to anothers' thoughts and ideas.
This 'war'... 'flaming' ... whatever cyber-space limitation (and it's limited) presents, doesn't define the people participating ... even if it appears to, it cannot do anyone true justice.
Zixar has been disagreeing with Rocky as much as Rocky disagrees with Zixar!
Flip the coin and you'll see the same scenario.
If anything, let's recognize that Rocky hasn't the intention to destroy GS.
I'm sure Zixar might like it to continue as well.
Clashes happen.
If it's new, (which I think theirs is unlikely at this point), people may have learned to settle their differences before it gets out of hand...and if they can't...they need to ignore an offender (they perceive) once they set the record straight.
Sometimes these 'old wars' are unreconcilable in as far the participants go.
The wise thing to do then would SEEM to refrain from any personal contact, like in the real world.
Nobody can control another adult ~ least of all ~ they are biting into the unreasonable if they expect to.
Chances are ~ if people 'ignored' the flamings, the tantums, the demanding of others to do thus and so... it would die out.
But we don't.
Truth is, this forum has a pugnacious nature that crosses the line into personal attacks!
What are you going to do ~ after all, TWI2 people are healing from C.M.'s ****ty example and to take it a step further, who really gets this upset about what another is thinking in real life when they don't even like them?
It's a curse and maybe the cure for some people to flesh-out their flaws in public.
I don't like it when it backfires either
...but it is revealing in how petty and narrow-minded the arguments here really are.
It's human though.
Perhaps, in the future, posters will realize it isn't worth it to persist in being right or getting their way when many a malice-full or hardened heart gets to 'get in a lick' for one last time.
Enough is enough... in the real world, isn't it?
Balance is the key.
There is an inbalance here.
What do we expect with such needs and egos at stake all over the place?
Taking a break is the best way to clear ones' head and gain some perspective, I think.
Impulsive release of anger can be detrimental at times, to the recipient, or at least hurtful to others, as we have seen here and in SO many other threads around here.
Why blame Rocky for all the ills at GS?
That's scape-goating to me.
We are all flawed human beings and have feelings...
Why is it okay to harm one and protect another?
With blinders off ~ it can be seen to take place at the precious GSC.
I guess it's still okay for personal attacks here.
It has been ok for some to persue others ~
If life is an illusion then the GS is just a game in the maze...
It doesn't mean any post defines a person, just like any poster here can define another...
Too bad people don't turn 'off' the combative aspects, huh?
If there wasn't some type of gratification in it, even for curiosity sake, this wouldn't have such an effect on people.
Don't you think (by now) that some people might actually enjoy smearing people with all kinds of garbage? Or offend and ridicule publically, someone else?
They do.
It gets alot of attention here too, btw.
Check out the hits.
Sad but true!
It's a kick, I guess.
Linda, I hear you loud and clear.
Ex, what can I say... by-standers beware?
Laleo ~ who started a thread about Ex & Ginger once to 'air' garbage?
Next week it will be someone else... unless you (we, us?) decide not to give it our full attention.
Watch what you are 'hitting' around here if you don't like the fights ~
I wish this were a kinder place ~ because it has so much more potential.
But can we flame one or two people because it isn't... or change what grown adults decide to do/say to each other?
That's the bottom line!
What choices people make to say what they choose to each other here is in part ~ the good, the bad and the ugly.
If only we could respect each others' humanity here ... leave it intact ... where one is better off for showing up ... instead of what a few wish others to experience that isn't best for them, let alone others ...
I guess there may be a 'competion' element that gets to some peoples heads as well.
THAT is not the part of this place that could raise the bar for everyone to contribute freely, I think.
quote: I wonder if you are more upset with Rocky due to the inferences QQ made in another thread (in the past) where he added his spin on Rocky's response to you?
Actually I had forgotten all about that until you just reminded me. But it's interesting that you would think that of me.
quote: Zixar has been disagreeing with Rocky as much as Rocky disagrees with Zixar!
Absolutely true! But you don't see him bellyaching to Pawtucket about it, and you don't see him accusing Pawtucket when Rocky starts something up.
quote: Why blame Rocky for all the ills at GS?
That's scape-goating to me.
Rocky is responsible for bringing this over here when he was banned from the Political Forums. It started when he brought the Barry Goldwater thing.
quote: Why blame Rocky for all the ills at GS?
That's scape-goating to me.
I'm not scape-goating anybody.If you'll read my last few posts, I think you'll see that I think we've all been brought into - or sucked into - a boiling cauldron, and I made an appeal to everybody to "cool it"
quote: Why is it okay to harm one and protect another?
With blinders off ~ it can be seen to take place at the precious GSC.
I guess it's still okay for personal attacks here.
This is never ok.
***************************************
I wasn't defending Zixar and preferring him over Rocky. I stood with him in believing that Rocky should apologize to Pawtucket for all his shennanegans. If anybody is harrassed here, it's Pawtucket, in fact, he said so. Go back and look among the earlier pages on this thread if you have the energy and read it for yourself.(for anybody who thinks differently)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is an old Icelandic Proverb that says: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
I no longer have the energy to fend off the heat. I've reached that stage in my life where it is a waste of time to plan for the future and as time passes I have less energy to spend, so I want to be careful how I invest it. It breaks my heart to see some of the best of the best fighting over trivialities that they cannot control. It hurts me to see people reading into things ideas that aren't there.
I surprised myself when I clicked on the desktop icon to take my morning coffee to the forums...habit, I guess. But it was an interesting adventure....kinda cool seeing what folks think about you when you're not around...but I shall not be back. I'll be more careful tomorrow morning :)-->
Krys on the last page mentioned that Rocky hasn't posted to this thread in several pages. She then makes the assumption that this is because he is laughing at what havoc he supposedly has caused. Hmm, on an earlier post she claimed that Zix was trying to ignore Rocky and that Rocky kept blasting away with depth charges. Which is it?
To me it looks like Rocky pulled away from the fray first, not that he sat back to laugh, but because he wanted to turn the other cheek and go on. Even his last couple of posts here were in reference to Jerry Springer, not Zix. I agree with other posters that in THIS PARTICULAR THREAD, there is the likelihood that Zix was prodding Rocky, and his motives were not so very altruistic towards Paw as he claimed. We all know that Rocky has been on the other side in other threads however.
To Zix's credit, he hasn't posted in a few pages either. I expect the fracas has been upsetting to both of them.
I do want to mention that Paw has also stayed out of this, and I for one, respect him all the more for that, even in the absence of a public apology demanded publicly by Zix, but not publicly by Paw.
I hope that Paw understands that my lack of supporting Zix in this demand had to do with my disagreement with Zix's assessment and nothing to do with any of Paw's actions related to this website.
Lets all move on- and I send a hug to Rocky, Zix and Excat who got caught up in Zix's animosity toward Rocky. and also to Paw.
{{{{{PAW, ROCKY, ZIX, EXCATHEDRA}}}}}
~HAPe4me
A candle loses nothing of its light by lighting another candle.
Ummmmmmmmmmmm...'scuse me, fellas/ladies...there is this little thread a few pages down that offers some levity and a break from all this unhappiness, anger and bad feelings. Mebee y'all heard of it??? It's that very, very, extremely, obnoxiously...yada, yada, yada...thread...
Go check it out...even if it's for some recess!
Thanks...sorry to interrupt...on with the bickering...
(This has been an unpaid advertisement from the Princess of Happiness and Resident Bliss Ninny)
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
I don't know, Ginger. Your posts are a study in unintended irony. You took a shot at QamiQazi, Krysilis, Zixar, and me, meanwhile encouraging all of us to "raise the bar." Okay. Whatever. You didn't raise the bar. You just shot at a different target.
If you think I ever started a thread about you and Ex to "air garbage," then all I can say is that "more is read where less is said." The only thread I recall is one in which I opened with a summary of a conflict from another thread in an attempt to move it (the conflict) away from the main thread. Wasn't that, like, two, or even three, years ago? You've got a good memory, Ginger, maybe fueled by grudge. When I started that thread (two, if not three, years ago), I had been gone from GreaseSpot for six months or more, and completely misjudged the level of hostility that had sprung up between some of the posters here. I'm sure you remember it well. I thought it was just a matter of a simple misunderstanding, since the people who were then viciously fueding had once been good friends, from what I remembered. Anyway, that thread was a disaster on many levels, successful on others, though barely. If nothing else, I found out who my friends are (and aren't), but overall it sure wasn't worth it. If you want to make a parallel between that thread and this one, go ahead, although as a parallel, it is very limited. But I think you should also note, since it's also central to this thread, that I did apologize to people for the mess that ensued from that thread, especially Pawtucket.
excathedra: Once again, while Zixar didn't use a very good example, he chose it in an attempt to illustrate his point by relating it to your own experience. I think you can understand that, even if you didn't appreciate the analogy. I think you can also see that Zixar hasn't once responded in anger. Impatience, maybe. But not anger. I think that in itself speaks loudly, if anyone is listening.
I'd like to ask all those supposedly disinterested, impartial, neutral third parties that have seen fit to point fingers at me here if they even read what I wrote to excathedra on the evening of March 3rd, and her subsequent reply to me the next morning?
Well, let me try it again, then. Maybe this will help:
I did not know that excathedra would react the way she did to my original statement. I did not think it was any great secret that she and I do not see eye to eye, and I certainly did not think she would be as hurt as she was by the way I phrased it. Had I known, I certainly would not have worded it as I did.
I am truly sorry that she was hurt by what I did.
For my part, I did not intend for it to be accusatory, malicious, or anything other than matter-of-fact. I thought that the analogy would be an illustration that would be instantly and personally identifiable to her, but I erred in that I did not take into account that her particular trauma would be exacerbated by the tiniest semblance of negativity. I thought that I had qualified it sufficiently with "particularly" to move the emphasis away from our contentions in the past and on towards the second part of the comparison. Yet another lesson learned in "no one ever reads things quite the way you wrote them."
So, excathedra, I apologize if what I said sounded hurtful, mean, or malicious to you. That was not my intent at any time, and I'm sorry that my lapse caused you any undue grief.
I'll address the rest of this weekend's issues in the morning.
I don't ALWAYS agree with everything said here. Sometimes I post my disagreement, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I privately email the person, sometimes I don't. Everyone gets something different from what is typed in these forums because they're typed they're up to individual interpretation.
I don't "know" but a few of you. I do feel I know personalities though, but I won't really know until I experience them in person, face to face. And I could be dead wrong, that's a possibility and I'm open to it.
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
I don't think anyone's been brought into anything. Each person who has posted has seen comments made that he/she feels a need to respond to. The sharper are perceived the comments, the greater the need felt to say something.
That's how a few of Mikes threads got going and going and going. And there is nothing wrong with replying as one sees the need. But no one is FORCING people to respond, either in Mike's threads, this one, or any other.
So, when I see people blame it all (whatever "it" is) on the starter of the thread ("but daddy, he started it"), I cringe. Yes, I made a response myself, to a very insensitive post a little while back, but I cant and wont blame anyone else for my response.
Let's face it...people can post things we decide we really need to respond to. But, if someone is so tired of what goes on sometimes, why keep posting then blame it on someone else? Even people who claim to be leaving often keep coming back "one more time".
Some threads with a lot of squabling just keep drawing attention, partly from those who complain about the squabling. Other threads, such as my "I love you" thread from two and a half years ago, dont go too far (and sometimes disappear as in that case).
". . . But what I see now is as if we're in a WWII movie and Zix in in the submarine trying to evade the enemy, the big boat on the surface tossing depth charges. No matter what the sub does.....it's only a matter of time until those depth charges get thrown overboard and start shaking things up again. And whenever the sub tries to launch a torpedo it either narrowly misses, or otherwise seems to be of no avail."
Subs work the best when un-seen. With lots of sub-hunters over-head there is not much a sub can do without being observed, and thus sunk.
Once detected, the battle is lost. Not necessarily the war however. Go deep quick, shut everything off, hide under a thermal-layer, and go to sleep. Sit on the bottom, with no motors running, no equipment making noises, dont allow anyone out of their bunks. (More men up and about means more noise. Subbers are used to this effort, no hard-soled shoes, no music, no PA systems, etc.) After a day of mucking-up the water, the targets get bored and leave. Then as they begin to leave the area, we can slowly rise up to P.D. (Periscope-depth) program one torpedoe for each skimmer target, launch at least one fish at each target, when we hear their hulls crunching from the extreme pressures of the sea as they go down, we can go on about our business again.
Your story of sub-skimmer warfare seemed a little 'hopeless', the idea is to sink everyone before the hunters find you, or make yourself 'impossible' to find (quite, under a thermal-layer, or wedged in among the silty-muck on the bottom). (( for more cool info on wedging in with the silty-muck on the bottom chekc out our new "Brown-water subs". They converted 2 old boomers to work better while sucking mud for reactor cooling. ))
I think I get Krys' point, whether or not I agree with it...which I dont feel like getting into right now. Obviously, Galen, you have it all over the rest of us when it comes to sub warfare, but she has it over us on the point she is trying to make.
I just thought I'd make that point...Krys may not answer, as she has said she has left this thread...twice.
Now, for a little diversion, I have to say I like your post anyway. I have done a lot of general studies of WWII and the sub warefare part, among some other things, has fascinated me.
My mom and dad were in the navy, and my dad served on a ship (think it was a cruiser) where if you were torpedoed or bombed you still might have a reasonable chance of survival. But if you were on a sub (submerged) and are depth charged...well...
I have also studied at length the THRESHER accident. Those last minutes and seconds must have been a terrible time for those on board.
Just thought I'd mention that; maybe this thread could use a derailing.
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Linda Z
Krys, you must have been posting while I was still typing.
I don't want to see you go. I enjoy your posts, usuaally. We just happen to disagree on this issue. You think Rocky's the only one who stirred things up, and I think there were two people with a spoon in hand.
These skirmishes heat up from time to time and then they die down. I really don't think this particular one (they're always intense when we're in the midst of one) is going to mean the demise of GS.
Hope you don't feel the same way in the morning.
I'd miss you and your butterfly.
Linda Z
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Ginger Tea
then
[This message was edited by Ginger Tea on March 07, 2004 at 3:10.]
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Ginger Tea
I hope that you can bounce back after this fray and look at it from another perspective (when you are ready).
I too, recognize that l9ife is short...too short to engage in petty conflicts, as you already know.
I wonder if you are more upset with Rocky due to the inferences QQ made in another thread (in the past) where he added his spin on Rocky's response to you?
I don't think Rocky is laffin' his arse off over this thread, especially since criticizms are flying left and right.
What I do think is this ~
More is read where less is said!
It's usually what happens here...after all, it's a message board and cannot reveal the 'nature' or even the authentic 'personality' of another poster because it's just folks who leave a message to anothers' thoughts and ideas.
This 'war'... 'flaming' ... whatever cyber-space limitation (and it's limited) presents, doesn't define the people participating ... even if it appears to, it cannot do anyone true justice.
Zixar has been disagreeing with Rocky as much as Rocky disagrees with Zixar!
Flip the coin and you'll see the same scenario.
If anything, let's recognize that Rocky hasn't the intention to destroy GS.
I'm sure Zixar might like it to continue as well.
Clashes happen.
If it's new, (which I think theirs is unlikely at this point), people may have learned to settle their differences before it gets out of hand...and if they can't...they need to ignore an offender (they perceive) once they set the record straight.
Sometimes these 'old wars' are unreconcilable in as far the participants go.
The wise thing to do then would SEEM to refrain from any personal contact, like in the real world.
Nobody can control another adult ~ least of all ~ they are biting into the unreasonable if they expect to.
Chances are ~ if people 'ignored' the flamings, the tantums, the demanding of others to do thus and so... it would die out.
But we don't.
Truth is, this forum has a pugnacious nature that crosses the line into personal attacks!
What are you going to do ~ after all, TWI2 people are healing from C.M.'s ****ty example and to take it a step further, who really gets this upset about what another is thinking in real life when they don't even like them?
It's a curse and maybe the cure for some people to flesh-out their flaws in public.
I don't like it when it backfires either
...but it is revealing in how petty and narrow-minded the arguments here really are.
It's human though.
Perhaps, in the future, posters will realize it isn't worth it to persist in being right or getting their way when many a malice-full or hardened heart gets to 'get in a lick' for one last time.
Enough is enough... in the real world, isn't it?
Balance is the key.
There is an inbalance here.
What do we expect with such needs and egos at stake all over the place?
Taking a break is the best way to clear ones' head and gain some perspective, I think.
Impulsive release of anger can be detrimental at times, to the recipient, or at least hurtful to others, as we have seen here and in SO many other threads around here.
Why blame Rocky for all the ills at GS?
That's scape-goating to me.
We are all flawed human beings and have feelings...
Why is it okay to harm one and protect another?
With blinders off ~ it can be seen to take place at the precious GSC.
I guess it's still okay for personal attacks here.
It has been ok for some to persue others ~
If life is an illusion then the GS is just a game in the maze...
It doesn't mean any post defines a person, just like any poster here can define another...
Too bad people don't turn 'off' the combative aspects, huh?
If there wasn't some type of gratification in it, even for curiosity sake, this wouldn't have such an effect on people.
Don't you think (by now) that some people might actually enjoy smearing people with all kinds of garbage? Or offend and ridicule publically, someone else?
They do.
It gets alot of attention here too, btw.
Check out the hits.
Sad but true!
It's a kick, I guess.
Linda, I hear you loud and clear.
Ex, what can I say... by-standers beware?
Laleo ~ who started a thread about Ex & Ginger once to 'air' garbage?
Next week it will be someone else... unless you (we, us?) decide not to give it our full attention.
Watch what you are 'hitting' around here if you don't like the fights ~
I wish this were a kinder place ~ because it has so much more potential.
But can we flame one or two people because it isn't... or change what grown adults decide to do/say to each other?
That's the bottom line!
What choices people make to say what they choose to each other here is in part ~ the good, the bad and the ugly.
If only we could respect each others' humanity here ... leave it intact ... where one is better off for showing up ... instead of what a few wish others to experience that isn't best for them, let alone others ...
I guess there may be a 'competion' element that gets to some peoples heads as well.
THAT is not the part of this place that could raise the bar for everyone to contribute freely, I think.
Ginger
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WhiteDove
Krysilis- Love from Kansas
Without Coffee I Would Have No Personality At All.
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krys
GT wrote
Actually I had forgotten all about that until you just reminded me. But it's interesting that you would think that of me.
Absolutely true! But you don't see him bellyaching to Pawtucket about it, and you don't see him accusing Pawtucket when Rocky starts something up.
Rocky is responsible for bringing this over here when he was banned from the Political Forums. It started when he brought the Barry Goldwater thing.
I'm not scape-goating anybody.If you'll read my last few posts, I think you'll see that I think we've all been brought into - or sucked into - a boiling cauldron, and I made an appeal to everybody to "cool it"
This is never ok.
***************************************
I wasn't defending Zixar and preferring him over Rocky. I stood with him in believing that Rocky should apologize to Pawtucket for all his shennanegans. If anybody is harrassed here, it's Pawtucket, in fact, he said so. Go back and look among the earlier pages on this thread if you have the energy and read it for yourself.(for anybody who thinks differently)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is an old Icelandic Proverb that says: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
I no longer have the energy to fend off the heat. I've reached that stage in my life where it is a waste of time to plan for the future and as time passes I have less energy to spend, so I want to be careful how I invest it. It breaks my heart to see some of the best of the best fighting over trivialities that they cannot control. It hurts me to see people reading into things ideas that aren't there.
I surprised myself when I clicked on the desktop icon to take my morning coffee to the forums...habit, I guess. But it was an interesting adventure....kinda cool seeing what folks think about you when you're not around...but I shall not be back. I'll be more careful tomorrow morning
:)-->
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HAPe4me
Krys on the last page mentioned that Rocky hasn't posted to this thread in several pages. She then makes the assumption that this is because he is laughing at what havoc he supposedly has caused. Hmm, on an earlier post she claimed that Zix was trying to ignore Rocky and that Rocky kept blasting away with depth charges. Which is it?
To me it looks like Rocky pulled away from the fray first, not that he sat back to laugh, but because he wanted to turn the other cheek and go on. Even his last couple of posts here were in reference to Jerry Springer, not Zix. I agree with other posters that in THIS PARTICULAR THREAD, there is the likelihood that Zix was prodding Rocky, and his motives were not so very altruistic towards Paw as he claimed. We all know that Rocky has been on the other side in other threads however.
To Zix's credit, he hasn't posted in a few pages either. I expect the fracas has been upsetting to both of them.
I do want to mention that Paw has also stayed out of this, and I for one, respect him all the more for that, even in the absence of a public apology demanded publicly by Zix, but not publicly by Paw.
I hope that Paw understands that my lack of supporting Zix in this demand had to do with my disagreement with Zix's assessment and nothing to do with any of Paw's actions related to this website.
Lets all move on- and I send a hug to Rocky, Zix and Excat who got caught up in Zix's animosity toward Rocky. and also to Paw.
{{{{{PAW, ROCKY, ZIX, EXCATHEDRA}}}}}
~HAPe4me
A candle loses nothing of its light by lighting another candle.
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jezusfreaky
Ummmmmmmmmmmm...'scuse me, fellas/ladies...there is this little thread a few pages down that offers some levity and a break from all this unhappiness, anger and bad feelings. Mebee y'all heard of it??? It's that very, very, extremely, obnoxiously...yada, yada, yada...thread...
Go check it out...even if it's for some recess!
Thanks...sorry to interrupt...on with the bickering...
(This has been an unpaid advertisement from the Princess of Happiness and Resident Bliss Ninny)
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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laleo
I don't know, Ginger. Your posts are a study in unintended irony. You took a shot at QamiQazi, Krysilis, Zixar, and me, meanwhile encouraging all of us to "raise the bar." Okay. Whatever. You didn't raise the bar. You just shot at a different target.
If you think I ever started a thread about you and Ex to "air garbage," then all I can say is that "more is read where less is said." The only thread I recall is one in which I opened with a summary of a conflict from another thread in an attempt to move it (the conflict) away from the main thread. Wasn't that, like, two, or even three, years ago? You've got a good memory, Ginger, maybe fueled by grudge. When I started that thread (two, if not three, years ago), I had been gone from GreaseSpot for six months or more, and completely misjudged the level of hostility that had sprung up between some of the posters here. I'm sure you remember it well. I thought it was just a matter of a simple misunderstanding, since the people who were then viciously fueding had once been good friends, from what I remembered. Anyway, that thread was a disaster on many levels, successful on others, though barely. If nothing else, I found out who my friends are (and aren't), but overall it sure wasn't worth it. If you want to make a parallel between that thread and this one, go ahead, although as a parallel, it is very limited. But I think you should also note, since it's also central to this thread, that I did apologize to people for the mess that ensued from that thread, especially Pawtucket.
excathedra: Once again, while Zixar didn't use a very good example, he chose it in an attempt to illustrate his point by relating it to your own experience. I think you can understand that, even if you didn't appreciate the analogy. I think you can also see that Zixar hasn't once responded in anger. Impatience, maybe. But not anger. I think that in itself speaks loudly, if anyone is listening.
Krysilis, I understand. Rest and hurry back.
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Ginger Tea
...maybe someone else can look at it!
Sometimes, we see only what we want to see...
ta-ta
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Zixar
I'd like to ask all those supposedly disinterested, impartial, neutral third parties that have seen fit to point fingers at me here if they even read what I wrote to excathedra on the evening of March 3rd, and her subsequent reply to me the next morning?
Well, let me try it again, then. Maybe this will help:
I did not know that excathedra would react the way she did to my original statement. I did not think it was any great secret that she and I do not see eye to eye, and I certainly did not think she would be as hurt as she was by the way I phrased it. Had I known, I certainly would not have worded it as I did.
I am truly sorry that she was hurt by what I did.
For my part, I did not intend for it to be accusatory, malicious, or anything other than matter-of-fact. I thought that the analogy would be an illustration that would be instantly and personally identifiable to her, but I erred in that I did not take into account that her particular trauma would be exacerbated by the tiniest semblance of negativity. I thought that I had qualified it sufficiently with "particularly" to move the emphasis away from our contentions in the past and on towards the second part of the comparison. Yet another lesson learned in "no one ever reads things quite the way you wrote them."
So, excathedra, I apologize if what I said sounded hurtful, mean, or malicious to you. That was not my intent at any time, and I'm sorry that my lapse caused you any undue grief.
I'll address the rest of this weekend's issues in the morning.
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Tom Strange
I don't ALWAYS agree with everything said here. Sometimes I post my disagreement, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I privately email the person, sometimes I don't. Everyone gets something different from what is typed in these forums because they're typed they're up to individual interpretation.
I don't "know" but a few of you. I do feel I know personalities though, but I won't really know until I experience them in person, face to face. And I could be dead wrong, that's a possibility and I'm open to it.
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Lifted Up
I don't think anyone's been brought into anything. Each person who has posted has seen comments made that he/she feels a need to respond to. The sharper are perceived the comments, the greater the need felt to say something.
That's how a few of Mikes threads got going and going and going. And there is nothing wrong with replying as one sees the need. But no one is FORCING people to respond, either in Mike's threads, this one, or any other.
So, when I see people blame it all (whatever "it" is) on the starter of the thread ("but daddy, he started it"), I cringe. Yes, I made a response myself, to a very insensitive post a little while back, but I cant and wont blame anyone else for my response.
Let's face it...people can post things we decide we really need to respond to. But, if someone is so tired of what goes on sometimes, why keep posting then blame it on someone else? Even people who claim to be leaving often keep coming back "one more time".
Some threads with a lot of squabling just keep drawing attention, partly from those who complain about the squabling. Other threads, such as my "I love you" thread from two and a half years ago, dont go too far (and sometimes disappear as in that case).
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Galen
krysilis:
". . . But what I see now is as if we're in a WWII movie and Zix in in the submarine trying to evade the enemy, the big boat on the surface tossing depth charges. No matter what the sub does.....it's only a matter of time until those depth charges get thrown overboard and start shaking things up again. And whenever the sub tries to launch a torpedo it either narrowly misses, or otherwise seems to be of no avail."
Subs work the best when un-seen. With lots of sub-hunters over-head there is not much a sub can do without being observed, and thus sunk.
Once detected, the battle is lost. Not necessarily the war however. Go deep quick, shut everything off, hide under a thermal-layer, and go to sleep. Sit on the bottom, with no motors running, no equipment making noises, dont allow anyone out of their bunks. (More men up and about means more noise. Subbers are used to this effort, no hard-soled shoes, no music, no PA systems, etc.) After a day of mucking-up the water, the targets get bored and leave. Then as they begin to leave the area, we can slowly rise up to P.D. (Periscope-depth) program one torpedoe for each skimmer target, launch at least one fish at each target, when we hear their hulls crunching from the extreme pressures of the sea as they go down, we can go on about our business again.
Your story of sub-skimmer warfare seemed a little 'hopeless', the idea is to sink everyone before the hunters find you, or make yourself 'impossible' to find (quite, under a thermal-layer, or wedged in among the silty-muck on the bottom). (( for more cool info on wedging in with the silty-muck on the bottom chekc out our new "Brown-water subs". They converted 2 old boomers to work better while sucking mud for reactor cooling. ))
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Lifted Up
I think I get Krys' point, whether or not I agree with it...which I dont feel like getting into right now. Obviously, Galen, you have it all over the rest of us when it comes to sub warfare, but she has it over us on the point she is trying to make.
I just thought I'd make that point...Krys may not answer, as she has said she has left this thread...twice.
Now, for a little diversion, I have to say I like your post anyway. I have done a lot of general studies of WWII and the sub warefare part, among some other things, has fascinated me.
My mom and dad were in the navy, and my dad served on a ship (think it was a cruiser) where if you were torpedoed or bombed you still might have a reasonable chance of survival. But if you were on a sub (submerged) and are depth charged...well...
I have also studied at length the THRESHER accident. Those last minutes and seconds must have been a terrible time for those on board.
Just thought I'd mention that; maybe this thread could use a derailing.
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pawtucket
This post will be filled later today and the thread reopened.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on March 08, 2004 at 8:13.]
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