Have you ever heard one of Bobby Knight's public apologies? Not to imply he is alone in this or invented it, but he is just the one I think of right now. Charitably, it is the "I am sorry if you were offended by what I did or said, even though I didn't do anything wrong, you just happened to be at the wrong place and time" type of "apology". Not so charitably, he seems to say "it's your own fault if, besides the fact that I'm right, you are so oversensitive."
In short, it doesnt say a thing about perhaps he really thinks he may have been (gasp) wrong.
But at least that is not as bad as announcing "I apologize if anyone is offended or hurt but what I am about to do or say. Howver, I am going to go ahead and do it anyway, because since I am doing it, that means I don't think it is wrong in the least. That's because I intend only for those who would not be offended to hear it, kind of ike sexist jokes in the workplace."
No, I am not referring to Rocky, Zix, Paw, or Pam...PamSanDiego that is. I have communicated with two of the above on the MAIN matter of this thread and don't feel anyone has enough of an edge on this for me to comment.
and by the way. shortly after his post, Mr. P-mosh commented...
quote: I'm probably going to make one at some point comparing arguing on the internet to supporting terrorism. That one can be offensive without being cruel like the one I posted is. Unfortunately such a thing doesn't exist yet so I had to use the one above.
HAD to??? Well, if you equate Christ to Santa Claus (it's not dangerous unless you get serious) or Freddy Kreuger, as he did on another thread, I see why he may have FELT he had touse it.
By the way, I think Bobby Knight is a great basketball coach. Kind of like Ron Luciano, formaer major league umpire, respected his major nemesis, Earl Weaver. Weaver had a rather marked disregard for the integrity of umpires. Luciano explained that he respected Weaver anyway for knowing how to manage, for never allowing his pitchers to throw at opposing players, and other things.
[This message was edited by Lifted Up on March 07, 2004 at 7:40.]
If that's all you got out of it, HAPe4Me, then why did you bother to read the whole thing? I disagree with your conclusion, but that's one you still could have reached by page 6, or even earlier.
Pawtucket can correct me if I'm wrong, but had he discovered Rocky's thread before I did, he still would have done the same thing. The ONLY reason I even revealed that I was the one who reported it was to deflect some of Rocky's hissy fit. Do you even know what I said in the report? Or do you even care, seeing as how you've already prejudged my guilt?
I've read an awful lot of bitching from an awful lot of folks, along with a lot of silly "both sides were wrong" posts, but of all the people who want to criticize me for this, I've only gotten two honest answers to my question about whether Paw deserves an apology from Rocky--and even then, Excathedra didn't know, and Vickles said it was none of her business.
So, which is it in your eyes, Hap? Will you be the first one to say that Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology?
I stuck my nose into this eight days ago. Been looking for it ever since. Now that I've found it, I think I'll keep it where it belongs. Before I go, I'll drop a few words.
Pawtucket moved the thread. Pawtucket is a big boy. He can administer this place as he sees fit, and can explain or defend himself (or not) as he sees fit. The "Report This Post" feature is anonymous for a reason. Both the identity of the person reporting, and any discussion about the reason for reporting are intended to be known only to the person reporting and the administrator(s), in order not to inflame personal conflicts between posters. Discussion between the administrator(s) and the author of any reported post are also intended to be private, for the same reason and others. Sometimes Pawtucket will post a brief statement explaining why he edits, moves, or deletes a post. Other than that, he keeps private communication private, unless another party to that communication makes it public. There's a lesson in that, to which all would do well to pay heed.
Okay, I know this has gone on long enough, and most are tired of it, but I can't help myself! (It’s the sno-cones that are giving me a chill.)
This thread was not started to trash Zixar (even though he became a target). It was started to trash Pawtucket. Radar said earlier that it takes two. Maybe sometimes it does, but please show me anywhere after page two that Pawtucket has even posted, much less "fueled the fire." He isn't even defending himself, but Rocky continues to take jabs at him. A couple of you have said that Paw is a big boy (ain't that the case), and can handle this on his own, but, still, I find it hard to believe that if a thread was started to trash you, Radar, or you, Long Gone, or you, Hope, you wouldn't appreciate someone, anyone, stepping in and offering at least a little validation on your behalf. I don't know about Long Gone, but Hope and Radar have been very vocal in the past about banning posters who "attack" others, especially unprovoked. Please show me anywhere on this thread where Pawtucket has deserved the attacks that Rocky has leveled at him, or in any way contributed to them.
HAPe4me: "so what it boils down to is Zix reported Rocky's thread because it was in the wrong forum?"
No. What it boils down to is that Zixar reported a thread that potentially could cause a major conflict. Evidently Pawtucket agreed, because the thread was moved. That didn't sit well with Rocky, so he started yet another thread that potentially could cause a major conflict, and here we are.
Long Gone: I very much agree with what you said about privacy, maybe more than you realize, which is one reason why I don't allude to, reveal, post, or otherwise make known any exchanges that happen outside of these forums. The only thing I comment on publicly is what is posted publicly. If people want communications kept private, I respect that. Rocky has repeatedly insisted that these things be settled publicly. As far as I'm concerned, if Rocky wants a public debate out of this, he should get one. Rocky put this out on the Open forum. Not Pawtucket. Not Zixar. Not HillsBro. Not QamiQazi. Not anyone else who he loves to hate. Maybe it's time for him to take some responsibility for his words and quit blaming others for his own hostile attacks.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 05, 2004 at 21:05.]
The ONLY reason I even revealed that I was the one who reported it was to deflect some of Rocky's hissy fit. Do you even know what I said in the report? Or do you even care, seeing as how you've already prejudged my guilt?
.....(snipped).....
So, which is it in your eyes, Hap? Will you be the first one to say that Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology?
How would I know what you said in your report, other than what you attested to in posts on this thread?
Do I care what you wrote in your report? No- why would I care?. You told us enough of the reasons for us to draw our own conclusions.
Pre-judged your guilt? I didn't prejudge, nor did I say you were guilty. Do you feel guilty? Maybe you revealed your report in order to coax Rocky into attacking you, maybe you were being altruistic on Paw's behalf. Only you know the answer to that.
Will I be the first? No, I have no desire to feed your quest against Rocky. For all I know that has been done privately, maybe not. This whole thread would have been better handled that way between you and Rocky, or between Rocky and Paw. For all I know, the two of them have worked it out, and I have no way of knowing that either.
Enough said, in the great scheme of things, this thread is an iota. :-) or is it a new "thread that won't end".
~HAPe4me
A candle loses nothing of its light by lighting another candle.
Hap: All right, how about "prejudged my complicity" or "prejudged my motivation" instead, if you don't like "guilt"?
No, it hasn't been worked out privately. That should be obvious. Paw never says much, but he'd tell me to stop if it had been. And I'm also certain that if Pawtucket ever gets fed up with me, this thread will be locked and buried in the archives somewhere.
So, if you won't say that Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology, and so far, no one else will either, on any side of the conflict, doesn't that pretty much tell you what the truth of the matter is? Even if I were twice the "hateful, "stalking" monster that Rocky's branded me, his words are still there in black and white and blue. Yet, apparently there's no positive defense for them anywhere to be found.
I don't care if you or anyone else thinks I'm some sort of colossal ******* for standing up for Pawtucket, I really don't. The longer this crap goes on, the more people put up with it, the greater chance it will happen again, and again, on a wider and wider scale. Why? Because it already HAS, from previous conflicts. We all get the kind of community we deserve, in the long run.
If you won't stand up for Pawtucket when he's clearly been wronged, what makes you think you deserve to ever have anyone stand up for you?
Anybody?
How about just declaring open season on everybody, then? We're all big boys and girls, right? Yet, look at how many people immediately leapt to excathedra's defense when all I said was that I didn't particularly like her.
Zixar, We all may have come to excie's defense but did anyone demand of you to apologize to her? There is the difference.
I can see both of your sides. Both of you are right and both of you are dead wrong. ITs just too bad that you all have to bring others into the mud of it.
I think I've said this to you before zix, I really like both you and rocky as far as posts go. I really don't know either of you but I have gotten to know rocky a little bit more through chat. He seems like a very nice and compassionate guy. Sometimes his posts don't convey that. Which is too bad. But I think its his style of writing.
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
quote:laleo posted: I don't know about Long Gone, but Hope and Radar have been very vocal in the past about banning posters who "attack" others, especially unprovoked.
Not posters, just one poster as far as I can recall.
quote:I find it hard to believe that if a thread was started to trash you, Radar, or you, Long Gone, or you, Hope, you wouldn't appreciate someone, anyone, stepping in and offering at least a little validation on your behalf.
I did have people jump in and help me deal with this one particular person - and it was much appreciated. I thanked most of these people privately. The way they helped was not by attacking the source of my conflict, but by agreeing with what I had to say at the time, and my right to say it. Come to think of it, some didn't agree with what I had to say at all - but they did post that I had the right to express myself as long as it was within the boundaries of the forum.
quote:Please show me anywhere on this thread where Pawtucket has deserved the attacks that Rocky has leveled at him, or in any way contributed to them.
I don't think I ever said Paw deserved any criticism that was thrown his way - my post - my one post on this thread - simply asked for the two battling parties to keep it to themselves. I also told them that I liked and appreciated them both. That was pretty much it.
I will say the response I received from one of them I considered rude and unnecessary - which is why I haven't posted here again until now. The only reason I am posting is because I have an awful lot of respect for you, laleo, and think that I needed to respond to your previous post in which my name is mentioned.
I only check out GS once or twice a day now. Sometimes I don't have the time (or energy) to read through a 10 - 15 page thread. I apologize if what I said in my previous post was out of bounds. I only skimmed through the thread before I posted.
Hope R. color>size>face>
... there's a star on the far horizon, rising bright in an azure sky,
for the rest of the time that you're given, why walk when you can fly?
In my opinion this thread isn't about PAWTUCKET and it never really was about Pawtucket. It certainly hasn't had a thing to do with him in half a dozen pages if ever.
In my experiences here at Greasespot over the past four years Paw has been remarkably consistent in his handling of situations like this. If a thread gets ugly...he makes a decision about THE THREAD and then tells the posters to work it out between themselves, preferably privately. I HAVE NEVER seen him ASK let alone DEMAND that one poster apologize to another. It is his choice to maintain the boards and threads, administer the site and expects the participants to "work out their own salvation.
Now...that said, on occasion I personally have told a poster or two that I think they need to apologize to someone for something that they have said, but no matter how bad I felt the affront was I simply stated my opinion and then moved on. To my best recollection, I just cannot remember my ever having asked in the forums for another poster to be to be banned....not that I haven't thought that one or two should be. But, this isn't about Radar and what Radar wants.
In my opinion this thread is just another Rocky/Zixar battle, with Zix choosing to use his belief that Pawtucket was wronged as the fuel to keep it going. Paw has not asked for Zixar's help publically, and has not demanded an apology from Rocky publically. What has transpired between the three of them privately is anybody's guess.
I think that Rocky and Zixar have both behaved badly towards each other for quite a long time now. I would like to see them work out their disagreements like adult men and stay out of each other's way and off each others threads if that is what it takes. Somehow the two of them manage to start an argument over just about every topic they both end up on.
These are my final thoughts on this thread.
Radar
Note to Laleo: I am still interested in why you believe that Rocky had another handle/persona at Waydale and said that in your post to Linda Z. If it is true...I have been in the dark for years, it just doesn't seem to be Rocky's style. Others may have done that for whatever their personal reasons or whims...but it doesn't fit for me in this context. -->
Okay...I just went back and read the whole thread. In the first 3 pages it was clearly about Pawtucket.....but in the last 8 it is clearly about ROCKY AND ZIXAR.
[This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on March 06, 2004 at 12:38.]
Disclaimer: I am not defending and never have defended Rocky's repeated protests that Pawtucket has wronged him. This isn't about that.
Radar, I believe you hit the nail on the head (my emphasis added):
quote:In my opinion this thread is just another Rocky/Zixar battle, with Zix choosing to use his belief that Pawtucket was wronged as the fuel to keep it going. Paw has not asked for Zixar's help publically, and has not demanded an apology from Rocky publically. What has transpired between the three of them privately is anybody's guess.
I think that Rocky and Zixar have both behaved badly towards each other for quite a long time now. I would like to see them work out their disagreements like adult men and stay out of each other's way and off each others threads if that is what it takes.
Zixar, you really want us to think this is all about defending Pawtucket, don't you? Maybe you've convinced yourself that it is, but you haven't convinced me. I think it's just as Radar portrays it.
Were you defending Pawtucket in the following exchange, taken from the "Gays on TV" thread?
quote:(Plotinus asks) Jonny, Do you agree with Paul [Eph. 6:5], that slaves should obey their masters?
(Johnny Lingo says) Plotinus-Although we do not have "doulos-servant slaves (indentured servants)in this country, I agree with it for that time. If a person were to indenture themselves in this day and time, then I believe it would apply. Maybe our closest modern example would be the military, ie, doing a four or six year hitch. So... YES.
(Rocky asks Jonny Lingo) Do you really still believe Wierwille's bull$hit on slavery?
(Johnny Lingo says) Well now! Aren't you one to troll for someone to flame up! That was as incendiary as it comes!I will not take your bait...
Okay, I've seen people say much harsher things to Jonny Lingo than that, but he decides to accuse Rocky of trolling and being incendiary.
Zixar, seeing his opening, says:
quote: Jonny: You might as well...it will be most informative, in one way or another.
So, surely because Zixar has nothing but the best interests of this board and its owner in mind, he encourages Jonny to take the "bait."
Yep, it's all about sticking up for Paw, Zixar. I can see that now. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the bad blood between you and Rocky that has gone on for what seems like forever to some of us.
[in fairness, Rocky then goes into his mantra once again about how he's been wronged. Give it a rest, Rocky, please. You've made your point...over and over and over.]
I didn't think your first post was out of bounds. I was just surprised by it, considering the thread topic. As many people as there are who like to say that this is between Zixar and Rocky, I don't think it is. I think it's about preserving respect for this forum.
I said posters (plural) in an attempt to keep it general. In other words, what I was trying to say is that you probably wouldn't put up with Rocky's antics coming from someone else. Again, I don't specifically mean satori, but I think that's who you are referring to. Now that his name is mentioned, in my humble opinion, I think the two of you got caught up in a series of misunderstandings, and it got worse from there. It was during a period of time when he was angry and you were depressed, and that combination made for some very bad chemistry between you. Under better circumstances, I think you might have been friends, or at least friendly cyber-acquaintances, and who knows how it will end, since the last chapter has yet to be written.
I'm not sure why Rocky gets a pass in all of this. The way he answered your post is the same way that he consistently answers many others -- dismissive and rude. And from the sounds of it, he has been answering Pawtucket the same way during Paw's many attempts to settle this privately with him.
I respect you, too, Hope. Thanks for posting.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 06, 2004 at 14:41.]
Radar: I think you might be getting tangled up in Zixar's wording, as far as his "demands" for an apology. He is only trying to say that Pawtucket deserves one, not that he will ever get one.
I will echo Zixar is saying that "Paw never says much, but he'd tell me to stop if it had been." I am very confident that if I am speaking out of turn, or misrepresenting Paw in any way, he will let me know. Emphatically. No doubt in my mind.
As far as Rocky's handle goes, I'm curious why Rocky hasn't answered that. I didn't think it was any big mystery. Linda said twice in her previous post, "Long before Rocky." My point is that there is no such thing as "long before Rocky." If I'm mistaken, perhaps Rocky should step in and clarify.
And, Linda, good grief. How perfect does someone have to be before he can contribute to a topic? This thread IS about "Rocky's repeated protests." Surely you've read the opening post and every subsequent post. What is your point? Is Zixar's personality so deficient that he has no business posting his opinion? Well, hell, if there's a requirement for having achieved self-actualization, I guess that excludes most of us from posting then. I don't even get what you're trying to say with posting that exchange from another thread. What proof does it offer of what exactly? Whatever is clear to you in that exchange sure isn't clear to me.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 06, 2004 at 15:33.]
I quoted from the other thread because (1) I didn't want to clutter yet another thread by adding any fuel to yet another stupid Zixar and Rocky fight, and (2) to point out that Zixar was clearly egging Jonny on to get into a battle with Rocky.
Zixar seems to be contending that he has only altruistic motives. His protests to the contrary, he hasn't convinced me that this is all about "defending Pawtucket." That sounds noble, but to me it looks like a smokescreen.
I'm not going to turn this into an argument between you and me. Let's just leave it at "we disagree."
Linda Z
PS. While it's true that one doesn't have to like someone to agree (and the converse), I see no reason to declare one's dislike for someone twice, after the first time clearly caused hurt feelings.
quote:excathedra: How about this one, then? If Wierwille were alive today, do you think he would at least owe you an apology for what he did to you?
i don't know. he didn't apologize when he was alive, so why would he apologize now ?
quote:More to the point, how would you respond if someone basically told you "Ok, you've made your point about VPW, but I'm sure you were partly to blame, too, so shut up about him already"?
i think people do feel that way and i was partly to blame for being so stupid
quote:I don't particularly like you, excathedra, but I don't think you're exaggerating or overstating your abuse by VPW, either.
and where does that fit in with anything on this thread ?
quote:It's too late for you to get any sort of recompense for his deplorable behavior out of him, since he's long since dead.
yeah so ?
i gotta stop this, it's too hard to copy and paste
but what in the hell does this have to do with rocky owing an apology to pawtucket ?
i have to say, i think you went wrongly overboard here to prove some point
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Lifted Up
Have you ever heard one of Bobby Knight's public apologies? Not to imply he is alone in this or invented it, but he is just the one I think of right now. Charitably, it is the "I am sorry if you were offended by what I did or said, even though I didn't do anything wrong, you just happened to be at the wrong place and time" type of "apology". Not so charitably, he seems to say "it's your own fault if, besides the fact that I'm right, you are so oversensitive."
In short, it doesnt say a thing about perhaps he really thinks he may have been (gasp) wrong.
But at least that is not as bad as announcing "I apologize if anyone is offended or hurt but what I am about to do or say. Howver, I am going to go ahead and do it anyway, because since I am doing it, that means I don't think it is wrong in the least. That's because I intend only for those who would not be offended to hear it, kind of ike sexist jokes in the workplace."
No, I am not referring to Rocky, Zix, Paw, or Pam...PamSanDiego that is. I have communicated with two of the above on the MAIN matter of this thread and don't feel anyone has enough of an edge on this for me to comment.
and by the way. shortly after his post, Mr. P-mosh commented...
HAD to??? Well, if you equate Christ to Santa Claus (it's not dangerous unless you get serious) or Freddy Kreuger, as he did on another thread, I see why he may have FELT he had touse it.
By the way, I think Bobby Knight is a great basketball coach. Kind of like Ron Luciano, formaer major league umpire, respected his major nemesis, Earl Weaver. Weaver had a rather marked disregard for the integrity of umpires. Luciano explained that he respected Weaver anyway for knowing how to manage, for never allowing his pitchers to throw at opposing players, and other things.
[This message was edited by Lifted Up on March 07, 2004 at 7:40.]
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Zixar
If that's all you got out of it, HAPe4Me, then why did you bother to read the whole thing? I disagree with your conclusion, but that's one you still could have reached by page 6, or even earlier.
Pawtucket can correct me if I'm wrong, but had he discovered Rocky's thread before I did, he still would have done the same thing. The ONLY reason I even revealed that I was the one who reported it was to deflect some of Rocky's hissy fit. Do you even know what I said in the report? Or do you even care, seeing as how you've already prejudged my guilt?
I've read an awful lot of bitching from an awful lot of folks, along with a lot of silly "both sides were wrong" posts, but of all the people who want to criticize me for this, I've only gotten two honest answers to my question about whether Paw deserves an apology from Rocky--and even then, Excathedra didn't know, and Vickles said it was none of her business.
So, which is it in your eyes, Hap? Will you be the first one to say that Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology?
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LG
I stuck my nose into this eight days ago. Been looking for it ever since. Now that I've found it, I think I'll keep it where it belongs. Before I go, I'll drop a few words.
Pawtucket moved the thread. Pawtucket is a big boy. He can administer this place as he sees fit, and can explain or defend himself (or not) as he sees fit. The "Report This Post" feature is anonymous for a reason. Both the identity of the person reporting, and any discussion about the reason for reporting are intended to be known only to the person reporting and the administrator(s), in order not to inflame personal conflicts between posters. Discussion between the administrator(s) and the author of any reported post are also intended to be private, for the same reason and others. Sometimes Pawtucket will post a brief statement explaining why he edits, moves, or deletes a post. Other than that, he keeps private communication private, unless another party to that communication makes it public. There's a lesson in that, to which all would do well to pay heed.
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Zixar
Long Gone: Point taken. Rest assured that this is the last time I'll ever tell the board I reported a post.
Cripes, some folks would have gone easier on me if I'd announced I like stomping puppies to death.
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Tom Strange
6er! I can't believe you like doing that! and here I thought you were Christian...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Zixar
Hardy-har, Tom.
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laleo
Okay, I know this has gone on long enough, and most are tired of it, but I can't help myself! (It’s the sno-cones that are giving me a chill.)
This thread was not started to trash Zixar (even though he became a target). It was started to trash Pawtucket. Radar said earlier that it takes two. Maybe sometimes it does, but please show me anywhere after page two that Pawtucket has even posted, much less "fueled the fire." He isn't even defending himself, but Rocky continues to take jabs at him. A couple of you have said that Paw is a big boy (ain't that the case), and can handle this on his own, but, still, I find it hard to believe that if a thread was started to trash you, Radar, or you, Long Gone, or you, Hope, you wouldn't appreciate someone, anyone, stepping in and offering at least a little validation on your behalf. I don't know about Long Gone, but Hope and Radar have been very vocal in the past about banning posters who "attack" others, especially unprovoked. Please show me anywhere on this thread where Pawtucket has deserved the attacks that Rocky has leveled at him, or in any way contributed to them.
HAPe4me: "so what it boils down to is Zix reported Rocky's thread because it was in the wrong forum?"
No. What it boils down to is that Zixar reported a thread that potentially could cause a major conflict. Evidently Pawtucket agreed, because the thread was moved. That didn't sit well with Rocky, so he started yet another thread that potentially could cause a major conflict, and here we are.
Long Gone: I very much agree with what you said about privacy, maybe more than you realize, which is one reason why I don't allude to, reveal, post, or otherwise make known any exchanges that happen outside of these forums. The only thing I comment on publicly is what is posted publicly. If people want communications kept private, I respect that. Rocky has repeatedly insisted that these things be settled publicly. As far as I'm concerned, if Rocky wants a public debate out of this, he should get one. Rocky put this out on the Open forum. Not Pawtucket. Not Zixar. Not HillsBro. Not QamiQazi. Not anyone else who he loves to hate. Maybe it's time for him to take some responsibility for his words and quit blaming others for his own hostile attacks.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 05, 2004 at 21:05.]
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Rocky
1-800-96-Jerry
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Rocky
I hope you folks get some sort of cathartic thrill out of your hostility toward me...
...mwah!
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Zixar
Is that what you got with your hostility towards Pawtucket, a cathartic thrill? Are we all just playthings for your amusement, Rocky? How noble.
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HAPe4me
How would I know what you said in your report, other than what you attested to in posts on this thread?
Do I care what you wrote in your report? No- why would I care?. You told us enough of the reasons for us to draw our own conclusions.
Pre-judged your guilt? I didn't prejudge, nor did I say you were guilty. Do you feel guilty? Maybe you revealed your report in order to coax Rocky into attacking you, maybe you were being altruistic on Paw's behalf. Only you know the answer to that.
Will I be the first? No, I have no desire to feed your quest against Rocky. For all I know that has been done privately, maybe not. This whole thread would have been better handled that way between you and Rocky, or between Rocky and Paw. For all I know, the two of them have worked it out, and I have no way of knowing that either.
Enough said, in the great scheme of things, this thread is an iota. :-) or is it a new "thread that won't end".
~HAPe4me
A candle loses nothing of its light by lighting another candle.
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Zixar
Hap: All right, how about "prejudged my complicity" or "prejudged my motivation" instead, if you don't like "guilt"?
No, it hasn't been worked out privately. That should be obvious. Paw never says much, but he'd tell me to stop if it had been. And I'm also certain that if Pawtucket ever gets fed up with me, this thread will be locked and buried in the archives somewhere.
So, if you won't say that Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology, and so far, no one else will either, on any side of the conflict, doesn't that pretty much tell you what the truth of the matter is? Even if I were twice the "hateful, "stalking" monster that Rocky's branded me, his words are still there in black and white and blue. Yet, apparently there's no positive defense for them anywhere to be found.
I don't care if you or anyone else thinks I'm some sort of colossal ******* for standing up for Pawtucket, I really don't. The longer this crap goes on, the more people put up with it, the greater chance it will happen again, and again, on a wider and wider scale. Why? Because it already HAS, from previous conflicts. We all get the kind of community we deserve, in the long run.
If you won't stand up for Pawtucket when he's clearly been wronged, what makes you think you deserve to ever have anyone stand up for you?
Anybody?
How about just declaring open season on everybody, then? We're all big boys and girls, right? Yet, look at how many people immediately leapt to excathedra's defense when all I said was that I didn't particularly like her.
And Pawtucket doesn't deserve an apology?
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vickles
Zixar, We all may have come to excie's defense but did anyone demand of you to apologize to her? There is the difference.
I can see both of your sides. Both of you are right and both of you are dead wrong. ITs just too bad that you all have to bring others into the mud of it.
I think I've said this to you before zix, I really like both you and rocky as far as posts go. I really don't know either of you but I have gotten to know rocky a little bit more through chat. He seems like a very nice and compassionate guy. Sometimes his posts don't convey that. Which is too bad. But I think its his style of writing.
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
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Hope R.
Not posters, just one poster as far as I can recall.
I did have people jump in and help me deal with this one particular person - and it was much appreciated. I thanked most of these people privately. The way they helped was not by attacking the source of my conflict, but by agreeing with what I had to say at the time, and my right to say it. Come to think of it, some didn't agree with what I had to say at all - but they did post that I had the right to express myself as long as it was within the boundaries of the forum.
I don't think I ever said Paw deserved any criticism that was thrown his way - my post - my one post on this thread - simply asked for the two battling parties to keep it to themselves. I also told them that I liked and appreciated them both. That was pretty much it.
I will say the response I received from one of them I considered rude and unnecessary - which is why I haven't posted here again until now. The only reason I am posting is because I have an awful lot of respect for you, laleo, and think that I needed to respond to your previous post in which my name is mentioned.
I only check out GS once or twice a day now. Sometimes I don't have the time (or energy) to read through a 10 - 15 page thread. I apologize if what I said in my previous post was out of bounds. I only skimmed through the thread before I posted.
Hope R. color>size>face>
... there's a star on the far horizon, rising bright in an azure sky,
for the rest of the time that you're given, why walk when you can fly?
Mary Chapin Carpentersize>color>
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Radar OReilly
In my opinion this thread isn't about PAWTUCKET and it never really was about Pawtucket. It certainly hasn't had a thing to do with him in half a dozen pages if ever.
In my experiences here at Greasespot over the past four years Paw has been remarkably consistent in his handling of situations like this. If a thread gets ugly...he makes a decision about THE THREAD and then tells the posters to work it out between themselves, preferably privately. I HAVE NEVER seen him ASK let alone DEMAND that one poster apologize to another. It is his choice to maintain the boards and threads, administer the site and expects the participants to "work out their own salvation.
Now...that said, on occasion I personally have told a poster or two that I think they need to apologize to someone for something that they have said, but no matter how bad I felt the affront was I simply stated my opinion and then moved on. To my best recollection, I just cannot remember my ever having asked in the forums for another poster to be to be banned....not that I haven't thought that one or two should be. But, this isn't about Radar and what Radar wants.
In my opinion this thread is just another Rocky/Zixar battle, with Zix choosing to use his belief that Pawtucket was wronged as the fuel to keep it going. Paw has not asked for Zixar's help publically, and has not demanded an apology from Rocky publically. What has transpired between the three of them privately is anybody's guess.
I think that Rocky and Zixar have both behaved badly towards each other for quite a long time now. I would like to see them work out their disagreements like adult men and stay out of each other's way and off each others threads if that is what it takes. Somehow the two of them manage to start an argument over just about every topic they both end up on.
These are my final thoughts on this thread.
Radar
Note to Laleo: I am still interested in why you believe that Rocky had another handle/persona at Waydale and said that in your post to Linda Z. If it is true...I have been in the dark for years, it just doesn't seem to be Rocky's style. Others may have done that for whatever their personal reasons or whims...but it doesn't fit for me in this context.
-->
Okay...I just went back and read the whole thread. In the first 3 pages it was clearly about Pawtucket.....but in the last 8 it is clearly about ROCKY AND ZIXAR.
[This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on March 06, 2004 at 12:38.]
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Linda Z
Disclaimer: I am not defending and never have defended Rocky's repeated protests that Pawtucket has wronged him. This isn't about that.
Radar, I believe you hit the nail on the head (my emphasis added):
Zixar, you really want us to think this is all about defending Pawtucket, don't you? Maybe you've convinced yourself that it is, but you haven't convinced me. I think it's just as Radar portrays it.
Were you defending Pawtucket in the following exchange, taken from the "Gays on TV" thread?
Okay, I've seen people say much harsher things to Jonny Lingo than that, but he decides to accuse Rocky of trolling and being incendiary.
Zixar, seeing his opening, says:
So, surely because Zixar has nothing but the best interests of this board and its owner in mind, he encourages Jonny to take the "bait."
Yep, it's all about sticking up for Paw, Zixar. I can see that now. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the bad blood between you and Rocky that has gone on for what seems like forever to some of us.
[in fairness, Rocky then goes into his mantra once again about how he's been wronged. Give it a rest, Rocky, please. You've made your point...over and over and over.]
Linda Z
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laleo
Hope,
I didn't think your first post was out of bounds. I was just surprised by it, considering the thread topic. As many people as there are who like to say that this is between Zixar and Rocky, I don't think it is. I think it's about preserving respect for this forum.
I said posters (plural) in an attempt to keep it general. In other words, what I was trying to say is that you probably wouldn't put up with Rocky's antics coming from someone else. Again, I don't specifically mean satori, but I think that's who you are referring to. Now that his name is mentioned, in my humble opinion, I think the two of you got caught up in a series of misunderstandings, and it got worse from there. It was during a period of time when he was angry and you were depressed, and that combination made for some very bad chemistry between you. Under better circumstances, I think you might have been friends, or at least friendly cyber-acquaintances, and who knows how it will end, since the last chapter has yet to be written.
I'm not sure why Rocky gets a pass in all of this. The way he answered your post is the same way that he consistently answers many others -- dismissive and rude. And from the sounds of it, he has been answering Pawtucket the same way during Paw's many attempts to settle this privately with him.
I respect you, too, Hope. Thanks for posting.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 06, 2004 at 14:41.]
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laleo
Radar: I think you might be getting tangled up in Zixar's wording, as far as his "demands" for an apology. He is only trying to say that Pawtucket deserves one, not that he will ever get one.
I will echo Zixar is saying that "Paw never says much, but he'd tell me to stop if it had been." I am very confident that if I am speaking out of turn, or misrepresenting Paw in any way, he will let me know. Emphatically. No doubt in my mind.
As far as Rocky's handle goes, I'm curious why Rocky hasn't answered that. I didn't think it was any big mystery. Linda said twice in her previous post, "Long before Rocky." My point is that there is no such thing as "long before Rocky." If I'm mistaken, perhaps Rocky should step in and clarify.
And, Linda, good grief. How perfect does someone have to be before he can contribute to a topic? This thread IS about "Rocky's repeated protests." Surely you've read the opening post and every subsequent post. What is your point? Is Zixar's personality so deficient that he has no business posting his opinion? Well, hell, if there's a requirement for having achieved self-actualization, I guess that excludes most of us from posting then. I don't even get what you're trying to say with posting that exchange from another thread. What proof does it offer of what exactly? Whatever is clear to you in that exchange sure isn't clear to me.
[This message was edited by laleo on March 06, 2004 at 15:33.]
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excathedra
oh MY wretched life! i'm back.
zixar,
that might be a small thing to you....Link to comment
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laleo
excathedra,
The point was that you don't necessarily have to like someone in order to agree with him or think he is right.
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excathedra
ok let me think about that alright ?
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Linda Z
laleo:
I quoted from the other thread because (1) I didn't want to clutter yet another thread by adding any fuel to yet another stupid Zixar and Rocky fight, and (2) to point out that Zixar was clearly egging Jonny on to get into a battle with Rocky.
Zixar seems to be contending that he has only altruistic motives. His protests to the contrary, he hasn't convinced me that this is all about "defending Pawtucket." That sounds noble, but to me it looks like a smokescreen.
I'm not going to turn this into an argument between you and me. Let's just leave it at "we disagree."
Linda Z
PS. While it's true that one doesn't have to like someone to agree (and the converse), I see no reason to declare one's dislike for someone twice, after the first time clearly caused hurt feelings.
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excathedra
i think i get the point about agreeing and disagreeing
i just would not go out of my way to tell someone i don't like them
plus use wierwille as a comparison since that has been one of the most difficult things in my life
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excathedra
ocd here
i don't know. he didn't apologize when he was alive, so why would he apologize now ? i think people do feel that way and i was partly to blame for being so stupid and where does that fit in with anything on this thread ? yeah so ?i gotta stop this, it's too hard to copy and paste
but what in the hell does this have to do with rocky owing an apology to pawtucket ?
i have to say, i think you went wrongly overboard here to prove some point
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