Who took my thread?

[Zixar]

Well, getting a list of actual issues is some progress, anyway. I'd like to address these that Rocky posted to laleo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by laleo:

Linda: I agree with others who have said that having a seven page thread over a missing post is ridiculous. But what amazes me about it isn't that Zixar reported the thread (he was doing what Paw asked him to do, which is to keep disputes out of the public forum), but the lack of anger from GreaseSpot in general over the disrespect Rocky has shown to Pawtucket, other posters, and the site itself. Rocky has no regard for any of it.

---

Laleo,

What hypocrisy.

You condone Zixar reporting a thread that broke no rules, but you have tirade after tirade condemning me.

First off, believing that the mere reporting of a thread is some sort of heinous offense is ridiculous. Pawtucket has ignored far more of mine than he's ever responded to, and can corroborate that fact.

Second, the thread was inappropriately posted, and Rocky knows it. While the original Goldwater article had only the typical political bias and wasn't of itself overly offensive, Rocky started making politically inflammatory comments while the thread was still on the Open Forum. Here are his own words, from his second post on the thread:

quote:

---

There is a wingnut "think" tank, or propaganda generating organization that bears his name, the "Goldwater Institute" that Barry denounced before he died.

Barry Goldwater did not mince words. He would never have tolerated what passes for conservatism these days. The current White House squatter is a social conservative and fiscal IRresponsible.

---

Now whether one believes these are "tame" or not, Rocky frequently used the term "wingnut" derogatorily against conservatives on the Political forums, and "White House squatter" is a slur on the President referring to the 2000 election controversy. Regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with Rocky's political sentiments, using this kind of language has always started heated exchanges in the Political forums.

Since Rocky had been banned from those same forums, starting a thread about a political figure, even if originally innocuous, and then starting in with remarks attacking the politics of his opponents was a clear violation of his ban.

I did not post on that thread while it was in the Open forum.

I brought it to Paw's attention, and he agreed it was inappropriate, posting only a single line to the thread before relocating it. Note that he did not erase it or alter it in any way, just moved it to the proper forum. That should have been the end of it, or at least this damnable thread should have terminated when Rocky found out where his thread had gone and that he could still access it.

However, your lack of awareness of what my LEGITIMATE concern about the administration of this site makes your butt-in-ski-ness in this thread all the more absurd.

Because the fact is that MY concern has ONE root and ONE root only.

That is that at QQ's suggestion, Paw set up the alert button so that said concerns could be handled privately, rather than publicly.

This is not entirely true. The alert button has been there since very early on in GreaseSpot's history. It wasn't at QQ's request any more than it was at Rocky's.

Pawtucket banned me for NO other reason but that I used the alert button to report a couple posts made by zixar and qq that were hateful attacks on me.

As has been said before, Pawtucket's view of what is and isn't a "hateful attack" can differ greatly from that of another poster. I myself got caught on the wrong side for something I thought was completely minor. It happens. From what I've been told, the ban had more to do with Rocky's "he hit me BACK first" attitude, i.e., he would bring these attacks on himself, then cry foul. Apparently it happened one too many times, but it was no one's fault but his own.

In response to my reporting of said posts, Paw rewrote the rules more than once to make it such that he could justify saying I didn't have legitimate complaints, when, before the rewrite, I did.

One of these "hateful personal attacks" was Hills Bro referring to Rocky as "Pebbles". Really.

Pawtucket's next step was to try to humiliate me. I refused to be intimidated.

I'd love to see the post in which Paw tried to "humiliate" and "intimidate". I could be wrong, but it's more likely Paw just called him on the carpet--privately--to get him to stop being such a difficult child.

Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from the main political forum.

If one cannot play nice with others...

Zixar continued to harass me and hence the hateful attacks on me continued.

Rocky should document this, and be specific about it.

I called attention to it.

Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from both political forums all together.

I supposedly attack him, and he gets banned for it? Is there anyone here at all that thinks Pawtucket is that colossally stupid?

Then, when I posted a legitimate issue for discussion in the OPEN forum, because that was the only place I was allowed to do so, Zixar's current (now five or six day) attack began and apparently hasn't let up.

As I've posted above, this is false, and a deliberate distortion of the facts. Rocky started this whole thing by abusing this site, then Pawtucket personally, and only after that did he start in on me.

When Pawtucket heeded Zixar's alert (even though I had violated NO rule...so, by definition we have an unbalanced and biased administration of the site, at least in this situation), he moved the thread, and did NOT tell me whether it had simply deleted or moved elsewhere.

At that time, I did NOT have access to the forum, so I posted this thread to ask the question.

Addressed several times before...

Zixar took over and has not let up in his hate for me.

No matter how much Rocky is desperately trying to personalize this so others will dismiss it as a ....ing match, it is not just another Rocky vs. Zixar squabble. Rest assured that if anyone else had reported his original thread besides me that that person would be the one painted as "evil" and "hateful".

Do I owe Pawtucket an apology for me telling the truth about the unbalanced administration of this site?

No, you owe him one for acting like a total spoiled child towards him, for starting this whole flap just because you don't get to run this site to your own pleasure.

Pawtucket has not demanded one, nor has he asked me for one.

That's a dodge. Of course he's not going to ask for one. That would only give Rocky more fodder for his martyr complex, since he's already tarred him as "arbitrary and capricious". Pawtucket deserves one, this whole site deserves one, and it looks like I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Laleo, you copped an attitude against me from the first time we interacted, which I recall had to do with me agreeing with something you said. And you told me you were offended that I would dare to agree with you. You've never been anything but hateful to me, but it hasn't, until this thread, been as intense as that which lives so intensely in the words of Zixar.

Notice that the "hate brush" he paints with just keeps getting wider and wider.

To those who would defend him, I'd ask one question: how long will it be before you disagree with him on something and suddenly become part of the Evil Hateful Anti-Rocky Conspiracy, too?

---

[Radar OReilly]

Zixar,

Just for the record....I think that GW Bush is a wingnut squatter too. Actually, I would use the word lugnut.

Radar

[Mister P-Mosh]

I apologize in advance to anyone with Down's Syndrome, but this came to mind as a result of this thread.

[Radar OReilly]

Pmosh Baby,

You are one sick puppy ;)-->

Radar

[Radar OReilly]

Just another thought on all this "button pushing."

Did anyone "report" CoolWaters for that HILLARIOUS but politically oriented thread she posted on the open forums....the one with all the pix of GWB?

ROR

CW....this is not to get you into the middle of anything, but it is a similiar situation and I am wondering if it was handled similarly or differently by the run of the mill posters here. This is not a reflection on Paw's handling of it....I am interested in the Gspot posters reactions.

[Mister P-Mosh]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Radar O'Reilly:

Pmosh Baby,

You are one sick puppy ;)-->

Radar

---

Heh, thanks. I'll take that as a compliment. :D-->

I do think it's time for a new image like that though. I'm probably going to make one at some point comparing arguing on the internet to supporting terrorism. That one can be offensive without being cruel like the one I posted is. Unfortunately such a thing doesn't exist yet so I had to use the one above.

[Zixar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Radar O'Reilly:

Just for the record....I think that GW Bush is a wingnut squatter too. Actually, I would use the word lugnut.

---

Radar: It doesn't surprise me. I have similar and opposite views about Gore and Kerry. The point is that these things snowball very rapidly. One minute it's "Gore's a sore loser", the next minute it's "Bush is a Nazi deserter who stole the Presidency and should be shot". Things don't tend to get nicer from there. That's why the Political Forum was created in the first place, to keep otherwise-pleasant folks from showing their ugly political sides on the Open Forum.

So, when a person is kicked out of the Political forums because he can't even abide the few rules in that squalid mud pit, what should be done when that person starts pouring water into the dirt of the Open Forum?

There's always going to be differences of opinion, and there are going to be varying degrees of civility when those differences clash. We can't stop it all, that's true. But when an unpleasant situation keeps happening repeatedly, and there's one person who keeps showing up as the common denominator, what's a group supposed to do?

[excathedra]

zix, yes lie to me ;)-->

actually you could have just said nothing in the original post (as far as how you feel about me) or that you don’t like my point of view

but i’m glad it’s the sin in me and not the sinner you don’t like :)-->

thanks for saying you’re sorry for hurting my feelings

can we let it go now ? i’ve embarrassed myself enough already

(and for those who like me, well, i feel like sally field ;)-->)

[Radar OReilly]

Zix,

You are right there will always be controversy over politics and religion....two of the cruelest things on earth. Even though I live in the south now, I am one of the original California girls politically and my 70 year old mom makes me look like a quaker.

You and I have always managed to remain civil to each other and here is one more thing I would like to bring up to you as respectfully as I can.

Please take a look at your last paragraph in the post above. I agree with you to some extent that when there is ONE common denominator in every forum brawl that the "community" may want to intervene.

The problem as I see it with your logic is that there isn't just ONE common denominator in every forum brawl. There are two common denominators, one named Rocky and one named Zixar.

Somewhere in this mess there has to be a realization that "without fuel, the fire goes out." And one or both of the common denominators need to be the first to bury the hatchet and move on.

I know that you are clinging to the notion that Pawtucket has been wronged, but really, that is his business and not yours. He is a grown, adult man that has managed to succeed in his life for quite a few years...and he has pretty much done it on his own. He can handle this too...honest.

Please, won't you and Rocky both just take a deep breath and figure out how to call a cease fire? I am not asking you guys to do a group hug or anything, just a civil posting relationship would be fine.

Radar

[Tom Strange]

well said... just waiting now...

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[Zixar]

Radar: With respect, laleo covered this near the bottom of page 8.

quote:

---

Maybe one of these days some of you will figure out what the common denominator is in these disputes. It isn't Zixar, and it isn't QamiQazi, as much as people might like to blame them. They just won't put up with it, and I guess amid all that noise, the point is somehow lost, and somehow that makes them guilty, too. Fine. But once they have either been removed, or removed themselves, as targets, Rocky will find another, and another, and another, until he wears us all down.

---

Yes, I'm frequently involved, but not always, and I very rarely, if ever, "start" the personal attacks when I am. If you'll look back at the Rocky vs. QamiQazi fight when Rocky threatened to reveal QamiQazi's identity, for example, who was it that tried to head it off at the start?

If you would, please read the following page:

Soap Opera - Page 7 Did I not try to reason with Rocky? What did I get for it? That thread had been going on for six pages before I ever posted on it. And that's just one example.

In short, I am not the common denominator, I'm just the figurehead-du-jour that Rocky's taking his personal troubles out on. Prior to that, it was Pawtucket. Before that, me, or Hills, or QQ, I've lost track. If Paw banned me permanently this instant, Rocky would still continue on to the next person that looked crosseyed at him, because that's what he's done over and over and over again.

I don't claim to be a saint. I don't claim to have never taken a personal shot at Rocky, either. But enough is enough. No, Paw did not ask me to extract an apology from Rocky. Here's what he did say, though:

quote:

---

Since you have now made this public, why don't you at least be honest about the reasons. You haven't been thusfar. You throw about phrases such as "the evil one"; "the hateful one" and "coward" concerning QQ, Zixar and myself. I can't speak for the others, but I have given you EVERY opportunity to join in the community, but you choose to be the persecuted one. That is the choice that you made. And now you advertise it readily whenever you can. You are harassing ME now. I don't usually do anything about that since it comes with the position. But you have done it to others and YOU have been allowed to "get away" with much more than others on this board and I have protected that information and will continue to do so.

---

Now, I ask you, which is more believable--that Pawtucket, QQ, and I have had a secret anti_Rocky conspiracy going for years, and all the fights we've had amongst ourselves were just an elaborate setup to frame him? Or that Rocky will fight with anyone at the drop of a hat if he doesn't get his way?

I'll ask you the same question I'm asking everyone else: after re-reading the first few pages of this thread, does Pawtucket deserve an apology, or not? Take me out of the picture and look at it again.

This situation affects us all, whether I decide to quit this place or not. If you still want to blame me, what else can I say?

Respectfully,

Zix

(edited to fix an ambiguous pronoun)

[This message was edited by Zixar on March 04, 2004 at 11:25.]

[Radar OReilly]

Zixar,

I know for a fact that you and Paw are not now nor have ever been in an anti Rocky conspiracy.

I am basing my opinions on what I personally see and read.

I hope you are not considering leaving Greasespot.

Radar

[Hope R.]

The saddest thing for me is that I know Rocky and Zix and like them both for various reasons. I admire aspects of each of their personalities. (hmmmm makes it sound like they each have two personalities... can you say Sybill??) You get what I mean.

I don't agree with either one of them all the time - and I don't think anyone agrees with anyone all the time! And ya know what - I don't make my disagreements with them PUBLIC on the forums. I email them - or anyone else for that matter - to criticize or to even praise them at times.

Anyway - the point which I'm trying to make is PLEASE KEEP YOUR FIGHTS PRIVATE! How about getting each other's phone # and see how well you can communicate THAT way? Or email, or private topic, or any number of means of communication to keep the rest of the GS community uninvolved.

It hurts me to see smart, witty, and otherwise rational people get so angry over petty things, when in real life, if they really knew each other, it would be settled in a phone call or two.

Please guys - you know I love you both - cut it out - it isn't worth it.

Hope R. color>size>face>

P.S. Rocky has been around since Trancechat and used his real first name there, but I believe he's been Rocky since Waydale. I don't recall him ever having a problem with anyone until recently.

P.P.S. THe yellow "alert" triangle has been here since the start of GS on the Infopoop site - but I don't think we knew about it until Paw told us what it was and how it works -I think about a month or two ago.

Personally, I don't think I'd use it in the case of a wrong topic placement - I'd save it for more egregious violations of the rules. I think (and I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth) that's what Paw and the other moderators are suggesting when they need to be alerted.

[Rocky]

How about teaching your "dear" friend zixar about personal boundaries and other reasonable social skills.

I don't stalk him. He stalks me.

I don't interrupt his discussions. He butts into mine as the whim hits.

Resolution won't come by "taking it private." Because when I did try that, Pawtucket banned me from political forums.

But when your "dear" friend zixar does it, people tiptoe around his feelings, because they love him so.

Resolution will only come by demanding, one way or the other, that he leave me alone as I do him.

And Radar, do you or do you not want this to stop?

Then why on earth do you take his bait looking for people to beg him to stay?

:D--> You talkin to me?

[Tom Strange]

let it go dude... just let it go...

lean back... palms open and up... eyes closed... deep breath in (all through the nose, remember valerieKnowles breathing method)... now out through the mouth... feel the peace....

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[laleo]

Hope and Radar:

Since you're both making similar points, I'll address both of you. First of all, if this is petty, then please tell me what is important for the functioning of this site. I think this is an issue of respect, and once we've lost that, what is left to keep this place going? Maybe preserving it isn't worth it to either of you, and I can understand why since it does get messy, but I think respect on this forum is "worth it."

I do not understand what it is that you're asking Zixar to stop. He is not stalking, harassing, lying, or anything else. He's only explaining his point until he is understood. If you have enough interest in this thread to post, and enough concern for Rocky and Zixar to tell them to "drop it," why not at least make the effort to fully understand what is at stake for each of them, before telling either of them to "let it go"?

[Tom Strange]

laleo:

lean back... palms open and up... eyes closed... deep breath in (all through the nose, remember valerieKnowles breathing method)... now out through the mouth... feel the peace....

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[Zixar]

Hey, Tom? That's not really helping. I don't think laleo is speaking from a position of stress, (although I could be wrong) and, even though your post isn't obstructive on the surface, you're dismissing what she's saying in a passive-agressive manner by implying that she is.

Does that make sense?

[krys]

We all need to step back and think about why this forum exists.

The Owner/Operator of this forum keeps it open in spite of the aggravation he gets because he believes along with us that we still need to keep it open to provide as accurate a glimpse of twi as possible.

We want and need (I believe) a place where we can demonstrate to anyone who wants to know just how evil they are….AND also let anybody who may want to get out of it….that there is, indeed life after twi, and that God will not sneak in in the middle of the night and slay them for “abandoning” what they have erroneously been taught as THE TRUTH.

God will not abandon them, and the debbbil won’t get them.

Now please consider “Respect” for the forums, and Pawtucket and each other in that light.

All of these forums from the “Pictures” to the “Prayers” to the “Doctrine” and the “Politics/light and heavy” serve that aim, (of demonstrating that we didn’t get picked off by the debbbil) and keep us talking among ourselves, something that most of us enjoy.

So – NOW - - the individual skirmishes that occur from time to time will happen anywhere, in any “public” place over enough time with enough “members”.

Look over in the “About the Way” forum and read all about the present trial over ABS. It serves as an example that the organization is still pulling the wool over it’s followers eyes and is, up until now, getting away with it. I guess that means, we, as a collective membership haven’t totally succeeded in stopping their errant ways (neither do I expect we ever will, totally – as long as they exist)

So….when posters come along who don’t comply with the simple rules of r-e-s-p-e-c-t

they either learn them…or somebody cajoles them into abiding by them. Some do better than others…but there is only 1 that I know of who refuses to do that.

I speak only for myself, and you are free to disagree, however, this one continually starts trouble or perpetuates it…cries “persecution”, name calls, and every other such thing. He gets himself banned from the Political Forum, so he starts political trouble over here so he can continue his shenanigans. And we keep trying to “silence” him, but only seem to get drawn into the fracas.

Don’t you think it’s time his plug got pulled and his IP address blocked from this entire site? When is “enough” really enough? IMHO is believe it’s now!

krys

[Zixar]

There's another thing to consider. As long as things are going smoothly, GreaseSpotters tend to have gracefully short memories when it comes to the occasional faux pas, provided the person committing it exhibits some humility in proportion to the severity of the act.

Arrogance may get us into trouble, but it's pride that keeps us there.

For everyone's sake, and yours especially, Rocky, swallow your pride and apologize to Pawtucket.

If you do, I guarantee you that within a MONTH 99.9% of the people here will have forgotten all about this mess. Unless you do something similar again, that is, but that's entirely within your power to control, because it's SELF-control. Like I said way back on page 6:

quote:

---

...If you issue a public apology to Pawtucket on this thread, there wouldn't be an awful lot left to say here, now would there?

---

Well, would there?

[GarthP2000]

Yeah Rocky, let it go. I mean, the point of who's right and who banned who over what politician has been lost in the moonshot and hubris.

Me? I wouldn't have 'reported you to the authorities' for posting the Goldwater thread in Open forum; that's going a tad too far in my opinion. But it wasn't no hate crime either. And I too fail to see any Anti-Rocky Illuminati Corn-spiracy by the Committee to Re-Select The President (:D-->) here either.

Frankly I think you have some good points re: QQ behaving in a malicious manner in the past (IMHO anyway), but Zix, Paw and the others? Nahhh, just the common clash of personalities and viewpoints; no hate crime committed.

And no, I'm not 'kissing up' to Zix either (now you aren't going to take my joking post earlier seriously, are you?), and he knows that he and I can get into it whenever we feel the need to clash. But, as far as I can see, he has made his case far better than you have. And all he asked for you to do is to apologize to Paw. Hell, sometimes I think that we *ALL* should apologize to Paw for all the crap that he undoubtedly goes through. I mean, what's really to stop him from yanking the plug on this little fun machine of GS right now? And precious little we can do about it too.

But this, Rocky, is without a doubt clearly making the mountain out of the molehill for you. And usually you have good points to make in the discussions nonetheless.

To rehash the situation:

1) You're thread is safe and sound, simply relocated in a more appropriate section (one that you can get to by the way)

2) You are still here; its just you can't get into the mean political forum section. Oh well, count your blessings.

3) In a lot of other boards that I know about/participate in, you would have been banned and smoked out of there, with the middle finger extended in your direction by the moderator of said forum. And since all these forums are privately 'owned and operated' by said moderators, your rights have not been violated in the least, regardless of how fair or foul you judge the moderator's judgement.

So just let it go, man. You're still a free man to go and do what you wish (for the most part). And one small little board made up of ex-TWI folks should be raising your blood pressure like this.

It ain't worth it. -->

My own secret sign-off ====v,

Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations. Prophet Emeritus of THE, and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[Zixar]

Garth: Well said. Thanks for your post.

[krys]

IMHO Rocky doesn't seem like he is going to make an apology. Let's just let this thread slide away into "oblivion" and let it rest.

Maybe changes are taking place that we can't see...maybe there won't be any outward signs, but that doesn't keep me from hoping.

From experience, I do know that pride is a very difficult swallow.....and eating one's words is even worse than that. Been there...done that...got the tee shirt...and it hurt like he ll. Maybe something is going on out of sight, under the covers, so to speak. Let's just hope so and let this whole thing rest.

[Zixar]

That's only going to make it worse, in the long run.

[Rocky]

Anyone got a phone number for the Jerry Springer show?

:D--> You talkin to me?