It's okay. I freak out half the time after I write a post, too. Comes with the self-revelatory nature of this forum, I guess. Yours really was a good post, though.
Laleo said something I've been trying to get said in some way for a while...but my faculties sometimes don't want to cooperate with each other sometimes.
Remember "piffle"? -"everybody's got a doctrine"? I think we're often like that, but our basic doctrine is that we come here to Pawtucket's glorious cafe, which he keeps open at his own expense...(and we cannot even bring an occaisional can of coffee to contribute)...and then, we seem to let some folks beat the krapp out of him verbally (in public and in private)and we never say a freaking word!!!
He never ask us to do a thing except stick to the rules....and this is what happens, or so it seems, as a result.
Quick! Can anybody here, w/o looking at the now-long-abandoned thread that was the initial topic of this thread, tell us what the topic of that now-dead thread was about?
without looking, the thread title IS "As Arizona goes..."
It is about Barry Goldwater and an article written reflecting on his politics.
The thread and the decaf politics forum has been idle for two days....
all without me looking since earlier today (several hours earlier).
The fact of the matter is I disagree strongly with Linda Z. But guess what -- she wasn't attacking me, even when she said she thought I was wrong.
Zixar and laleo can take a lesson from that.
At some point, I really wish people would let it (this thread) die.
I will not be intimidated by anyone who stalks me, who is as intensely and consistently hateful (not JUST) to me, and what I said about what I believe Pawtucket did in this whole series of situations still stands.
Linda: I agree with others who have said that having a seven page thread over a missing post is ridiculous. But what amazes me about it isn't that Zixar reported the thread (he was doing what Paw asked him to do, which is to keep disputes out of the public forum), but the lack of anger from GreaseSpot in general over the disrespect Rocky has shown to Pawtucket, other posters, and the site itself. Rocky has no regard for any of it.
Laleo,
What hypocrisy.
You condone Zixar reporting a thread that broke no rules, but you have tirade after tirade condemning me.
However, your lack of awareness of what my LEGITIMATE concern about the administration of this site makes your butt-in-ski-ness in this thread all the more absurd.
Because the fact is that MY concern has ONE root and ONE root only.
That is that at QQ's suggestion, Paw set up the alert button so that said concerns could be handled privately, rather than publicly.
Pawtucket banned me for NO other reason but that I used the alert button to report a couple posts made by zixar and qq that were hateful attacks on me.
In response to my reporting of said posts, Paw rewrote the rules more than once to make it such that he could justify saying I didn't have legitimate complaints, when, before the rewrite, I did.
Pawtucket's next step was to try to humiliate me. I refused to be intimidated.
Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from the main political forum.
Zixar continued to harass me and hence the hateful attacks on me continued.
I called attention to it.
Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from both political forums all together.
Then, when I posted a legitimate issue for discussion in the OPEN forum, because that was the only place I was allowed to do so, Zixar's current (now five or six day) attack began and apparently hasn't let up.
When Pawtucket heeded Zixar's alert (even though I had violated NO rule...so, by definition we have an unbalanced and biased administration of the site, at least in this situation), he moved the thread, and did NOT tell me whether it had simply deleted or moved elsewhere.
At that time, I did NOT have access to the forum, so I posted this thread to ask the question.
Zixar took over and has not let up in his hate for me.
Do I owe Pawtucket an apology for me telling the truth about the unbalanced administration of this site?
Pawtucket has not demanded one, nor has he asked me for one.
Laleo, you copped an attitude against me from the first time we interacted, which I recall had to do with me agreeing with something you said. And you told me you were offended that I would dare to agree with you. You've never been anything but hateful to me, but it hasn't, until this thread, been as intense as that which lives so intensely in the words of Zixar.
I don't have the the energy to answer point for point. So I'm just going to say what's on my mind after reading the last few posts.
I was as vocal as I wanted be, laleo. I said what I thought about Rocky's behavior and what I thought about Zixar's behavior.
I have to wonder, where was the outrage when QQ was accusing Paw? If I recall correctly it was something like Paw was keeping the rules vague so that he could enforce them however he wanted to. QQ's insults were cloaked in his characteristically eloquent verbiage, but they were insults aimed at Paw nonetheless, from where I was sitting.
Rocky, it's my view that you'd be smart to just shut up and quit insulting the cook. Your interminable accusations against Pawtucket are false and make you look foolish. You might perceive the chain of events the way you outline them here, but have you ever stopped to think that you could be wrong in your perception?
If I were Paw I probably would have banned your butt permanently already. You just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. No personal attack here...just the facts.
As for the victimhood of QQ and Zixar in all this....I'm sorry, but hahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahaha!
Long long LONG before Rocky ever showed his face in the cafe, Satori was bitingly sarcastic and brutal toward many people, always justifying his harshness with cleverly worded posts about how the objects of his disdain deserved being slashed with his sharp tongue.
Long long LONG before Rocky showed his face in the cafe, Zixar and Satori were at each other's throats at every turn. They were like mirror images of each other in their dogged refusal to back down or stop with the personal attacks.
Does that mean I don't think Rocky is being rude and unfair to Paw. Nope. I think Rocky is being rude and unfair to Paw. But Satori, oops, I mean QQ, and Zixar have been right square in the middle of many bitterly fought battles when Rocky wasn't even around yet.
I'm wanting to understand something you said, laleo. Did you mean Paw personally appointed Zixar, specifically, to watch out for disputes in threads? If that's the case, I don't know why Zixar didn't say he was just doing what Paw asked him to do. That's got me confused.
I'm going to bed. Protracted bickering makes me sleepy.
.... compelled by my self absorption (and validation from laleo)
i must say....
i don't think it was fair for zix to compare what happened to me with wierwille and what is going on here
i said before that i don't know what it has to do with anything. and if he were alive today, why should i expect an apology since i didn't get one when he was alive
my problem here is that i see (or don't see) so many points of view
when this particular thing started, i thought paw was wrong for moving a thread to a place a person couldn't see it
so crucify me
i think the whole world owes me an apology (just kidding)
sure i think we're all here because of the longsuffering of pawtucket, but if i think he is right all the time, then (in my mind) i'm back in the way ministry
we all feel we are "right" to some extent
i guess
but i just wish that you, zixar, hadn't said you don't like particularly like me
Good points, ex, and I'm glad you came back and posted.
I don't think Paw is right all the time. Who could be in deciding issues involving such a diverse bunch of renegades as we all are?? But I don't think he's a fraction as wrong is Rocky has convinced himself (and apparently is trying to convince everyone else) he is.
First, no, I didn't mean to say that Zixar was somehow appointed to watch over the threads. At least not that I know about. I only meant that Zixar was using the alert feature for the purpose that Paw publicly stated he would like it used. Sorry for the miscommunication.
Secondly, you may not be connecting Rocky to his former handle, but he has been around since WayDale, which is where the fighting began.
Thirdly, in answer to your question (were you asking me specifically?): "I have to wonder, where was the outrage when QQ was accusing Paw?" It was about as unanimous as anything I've ever seen on GS. I think (hope) he and Paw worked it out.
And, finally, whether we agree or not, I enjoy reading your posts.
i actually got up from bed to have a cigarette and come back here. i am so pathetic
one thing i wanted to say is that the hardest thing for a "victim" (and really for anyone) is to hear that how you "feel" is just to bring attention to yourself or something like that...
so my lesson for the night before i stub this sucker out is that everyone's feelings matter
This STARTED by me being BANNED for doing what ZIXAR is getting praised for doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Linda, I don't take anything you say to me as an attack. It doesn't hurt me for you to tell me what you think. Even in disagreeing with me, or telling me you think I've done something wrong.
There's no malice in what you are saying to me.
That is very UNlike what zixar has been doing PROTRACTEDLY here.
And Linda, have YOU considered that you don't have all of the facts?
the FACT is that PAWtucket got very angry at me for doing what laleo is praising zixar for doing now.
This thread has become utterly ridiculous...guys...this is a forum, on the net, as Mr. Strangedude so eloquently stated. For two guys who are so intelligent as the 2 of you are, I think this is out of control.
I like you both, whether you like me or not...NNNNNNNYYYYYYYAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! :P-->
Just avoid each other and be done with it for Pete's sake...sheesh!
And yes...I resemble that remark...BLISS NINNY!!!! :D-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
In case, JF, you haven't observed, I DO leave his discussions alone.
HE is the one who DOESN'T leave me a lone.
And Pawtucket ALLOWS it, even though he claims to have made rules to prevent such attacks.
And NOW, Zixar's buddies are singing his praises for him doing what got me banned from the political threads, using the alert button to keep it private.
Only, when I used it, it was about posts that violated stated rules.
When zixar used it, it was because I was complying with the rules. You figure it.
Looks like I'm going to have some posting to do in the morning.
But a quick note to excathedra, about not particularly liking you: I'm sorry that hurt your feelings, but would you rather I lied to you? Perhaps my feelings towards you may change in the future. It has happened with other posters I didn't really like before, but I'm not going to lie to you about it now. However, for what it's worth, I think it stems more from just a fundamental difference in viewpoint than any personal flaw on your part. I know that doesn't make it any nicer, perhaps, but it's honestly how I feel about you. It would be disingenuous of me to say "nothing personal" about the situation.
(3rd rate gospel muzak in the background) ... Praise Zix, .... praise Zix, .... p-r-a-i-s-e ZIX!!!.....(till someone mercifully yanks the plug on the muzak :D-->)
Meanwhile, still nobody has come forward in remembering what that All Important Thread was all about that this thread was started out on.
Was it about THE? ... Was it Yet Another Thread about Mastering Smikeol's Piffle? ... Was it even about snow cones? Inquiring minds wanna know. ....
AH AH AH!! Don't look! Gotta remember it from memory, since it was so Gawd-awful important for some folks to raise such a fuss about censoring it and all and reporting it to Paw.
What? I gotta give a prize for the first one who remembers it?? Hells bells! --> ... Ok, first one who gets the right answer wins ..... a free full recording of Howard Dean's Primal Scream political speech that cost him the nomination!
Runner ups get a free Greasespot Cafe board game for you and your entire family.
:D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
And so he has. HOWEVER, as author of that thread, he is disqualified from winning the Grande Prize of the Day. Altho' he can take home the Greasespot Cafe board game as a consolation prize if he wishes. (Gotta get rid of all this back inventory of board games, doncha know)
I guess I musta missed his answer that was buried in all the ((ahem)) 'hubris'. :D-->
Carry on!
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
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laleo
It's okay. I freak out half the time after I write a post, too. Comes with the self-revelatory nature of this forum, I guess. Yours really was a good post, though.
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excathedra
that means a lot to me coming from you
part of me is still such a people pleaser
and part of me wants to stand up for myself
and naturally i would like to believe i have half a brain
anyway
that's all i gotta say for the moment
;)-->
oh and yeah the "self-revelatory nature of this forum" absolutely
:)-->
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krys
Laleo said something I've been trying to get said in some way for a while...but my faculties sometimes don't want to cooperate with each other sometimes.
Remember "piffle"? -"everybody's got a doctrine"? I think we're often like that, but our basic doctrine is that we come here to Pawtucket's glorious cafe, which he keeps open at his own expense...(and we cannot even bring an occaisional can of coffee to contribute)...and then, we seem to let some folks beat the krapp out of him verbally (in public and in private)and we never say a freaking word!!!
He never ask us to do a thing except stick to the rules....and this is what happens, or so it seems, as a result.
I think that sucks, in plain English........
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Rocky
without looking, the thread title IS "As Arizona goes..."
It is about Barry Goldwater and an article written reflecting on his politics.
The thread and the decaf politics forum has been idle for two days....
all without me looking since earlier today (several hours earlier).
The fact of the matter is I disagree strongly with Linda Z. But guess what -- she wasn't attacking me, even when she said she thought I was wrong.
Zixar and laleo can take a lesson from that.
At some point, I really wish people would let it (this thread) die.
I will not be intimidated by anyone who stalks me, who is as intensely and consistently hateful (not JUST) to me, and what I said about what I believe Pawtucket did in this whole series of situations still stands.
Is there a conspiracy? that's ridiculous.
And I didn't say there was...
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krys
I would respectfully suggest that he not start threads which only simmer and broil more adversity which always (predictably?) seem to end like this!
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Rocky
Laleo,
What hypocrisy.
You condone Zixar reporting a thread that broke no rules, but you have tirade after tirade condemning me.
However, your lack of awareness of what my LEGITIMATE concern about the administration of this site makes your butt-in-ski-ness in this thread all the more absurd.
Because the fact is that MY concern has ONE root and ONE root only.
That is that at QQ's suggestion, Paw set up the alert button so that said concerns could be handled privately, rather than publicly.
Pawtucket banned me for NO other reason but that I used the alert button to report a couple posts made by zixar and qq that were hateful attacks on me.
In response to my reporting of said posts, Paw rewrote the rules more than once to make it such that he could justify saying I didn't have legitimate complaints, when, before the rewrite, I did.
Pawtucket's next step was to try to humiliate me. I refused to be intimidated.
Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from the main political forum.
Zixar continued to harass me and hence the hateful attacks on me continued.
I called attention to it.
Pawtucket's next step was to ban me from both political forums all together.
Then, when I posted a legitimate issue for discussion in the OPEN forum, because that was the only place I was allowed to do so, Zixar's current (now five or six day) attack began and apparently hasn't let up.
When Pawtucket heeded Zixar's alert (even though I had violated NO rule...so, by definition we have an unbalanced and biased administration of the site, at least in this situation), he moved the thread, and did NOT tell me whether it had simply deleted or moved elsewhere.
At that time, I did NOT have access to the forum, so I posted this thread to ask the question.
Zixar took over and has not let up in his hate for me.
Do I owe Pawtucket an apology for me telling the truth about the unbalanced administration of this site?
Pawtucket has not demanded one, nor has he asked me for one.
Laleo, you copped an attitude against me from the first time we interacted, which I recall had to do with me agreeing with something you said. And you told me you were offended that I would dare to agree with you. You've never been anything but hateful to me, but it hasn't, until this thread, been as intense as that which lives so intensely in the words of Zixar.
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Tom Strange
oooh.... I don't want to but the spirits are making me....
laleo:
sure they matter to me, and I respect and appreciate this place, and "the man who built it"...I just don't think it's a life or death matter...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Linda Z
I don't have the the energy to answer point for point. So I'm just going to say what's on my mind after reading the last few posts.
I was as vocal as I wanted be, laleo. I said what I thought about Rocky's behavior and what I thought about Zixar's behavior.
I have to wonder, where was the outrage when QQ was accusing Paw? If I recall correctly it was something like Paw was keeping the rules vague so that he could enforce them however he wanted to. QQ's insults were cloaked in his characteristically eloquent verbiage, but they were insults aimed at Paw nonetheless, from where I was sitting.
Rocky, it's my view that you'd be smart to just shut up and quit insulting the cook. Your interminable accusations against Pawtucket are false and make you look foolish. You might perceive the chain of events the way you outline them here, but have you ever stopped to think that you could be wrong in your perception?
If I were Paw I probably would have banned your butt permanently already. You just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. No personal attack here...just the facts.
As for the victimhood of QQ and Zixar in all this....I'm sorry, but hahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahaha!
Long long LONG before Rocky ever showed his face in the cafe, Satori was bitingly sarcastic and brutal toward many people, always justifying his harshness with cleverly worded posts about how the objects of his disdain deserved being slashed with his sharp tongue.
Long long LONG before Rocky showed his face in the cafe, Zixar and Satori were at each other's throats at every turn. They were like mirror images of each other in their dogged refusal to back down or stop with the personal attacks.
Does that mean I don't think Rocky is being rude and unfair to Paw. Nope. I think Rocky is being rude and unfair to Paw. But Satori, oops, I mean QQ, and Zixar have been right square in the middle of many bitterly fought battles when Rocky wasn't even around yet.
I'm wanting to understand something you said, laleo. Did you mean Paw personally appointed Zixar, specifically, to watch out for disputes in threads? If that's the case, I don't know why Zixar didn't say he was just doing what Paw asked him to do. That's got me confused.
I'm going to bed. Protracted bickering makes me sleepy.
Linda Z
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excathedra
.... compelled by my self absorption (and validation from laleo)
i must say....
i don't think it was fair for zix to compare what happened to me with wierwille and what is going on here
i said before that i don't know what it has to do with anything. and if he were alive today, why should i expect an apology since i didn't get one when he was alive
my problem here is that i see (or don't see) so many points of view
when this particular thing started, i thought paw was wrong for moving a thread to a place a person couldn't see it
so crucify me
i think the whole world owes me an apology (just kidding)
sure i think we're all here because of the longsuffering of pawtucket, but if i think he is right all the time, then (in my mind) i'm back in the way ministry
we all feel we are "right" to some extent
i guess
but i just wish that you, zixar, hadn't said you don't like particularly like me
that kind of shut me down
and guess what, i didn't report you
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Linda Z
Good points, ex, and I'm glad you came back and posted.
I don't think Paw is right all the time. Who could be in deciding issues involving such a diverse bunch of renegades as we all are?? But I don't think he's a fraction as wrong is Rocky has convinced himself (and apparently is trying to convince everyone else) he is.
Ok, night all,
Linda Z
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excathedra
yeah right the zixar / satori thing
let's forget that. it didn't happen
i'm sorry. i'm getting upset
and i don't even know why i said that
and rocky, i don't know.....
i can't keep posting right now. gotta go
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laleo
Linda: Just a few small clarifications.
First, no, I didn't mean to say that Zixar was somehow appointed to watch over the threads. At least not that I know about. I only meant that Zixar was using the alert feature for the purpose that Paw publicly stated he would like it used. Sorry for the miscommunication.
Secondly, you may not be connecting Rocky to his former handle, but he has been around since WayDale, which is where the fighting began.
Thirdly, in answer to your question (were you asking me specifically?): "I have to wonder, where was the outrage when QQ was accusing Paw?" It was about as unanimous as anything I've ever seen on GS. I think (hope) he and Paw worked it out.
And, finally, whether we agree or not, I enjoy reading your posts.
Good night, Linda.
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excathedra
i actually got up from bed to have a cigarette and come back here. i am so pathetic
one thing i wanted to say is that the hardest thing for a "victim" (and really for anyone) is to hear that how you "feel" is just to bring attention to yourself or something like that...
so my lesson for the night before i stub this sucker out is that everyone's feelings matter
yes i am saint....ingsomebody
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Rocky
This STARTED by me being BANNED for doing what ZIXAR is getting praised for doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Linda, I don't take anything you say to me as an attack. It doesn't hurt me for you to tell me what you think. Even in disagreeing with me, or telling me you think I've done something wrong.
There's no malice in what you are saying to me.
That is very UNlike what zixar has been doing PROTRACTEDLY here.
And Linda, have YOU considered that you don't have all of the facts?
the FACT is that PAWtucket got very angry at me for doing what laleo is praising zixar for doing now.
It IS that simple.
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Rocky
And Excie, I DO like you, but not because you agree with me (or even if you don't).
You're generally pretty candid with people here but do so in ways that are considerate. And do so much better than I can.
And I admire that. So there.
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vickles
((((((excie)))))))) I like you and that is all that counts....
:D-->
mini me
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
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jezusfreaky
This thread has become utterly ridiculous...guys...this is a forum, on the net, as Mr. Strangedude so eloquently stated. For two guys who are so intelligent as the 2 of you are, I think this is out of control.
I like you both, whether you like me or not...NNNNNNNYYYYYYYAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!
:P-->
Just avoid each other and be done with it for Pete's sake...sheesh!
And yes...I resemble that remark...BLISS NINNY!!!!
:D-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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Rocky
In case, JF, you haven't observed, I DO leave his discussions alone.
HE is the one who DOESN'T leave me a lone.
And Pawtucket ALLOWS it, even though he claims to have made rules to prevent such attacks.
And NOW, Zixar's buddies are singing his praises for him doing what got me banned from the political threads, using the alert button to keep it private.
Only, when I used it, it was about posts that violated stated rules.
When zixar used it, it was because I was complying with the rules. You figure it.
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Zixar
Looks like I'm going to have some posting to do in the morning.
But a quick note to excathedra, about not particularly liking you: I'm sorry that hurt your feelings, but would you rather I lied to you? Perhaps my feelings towards you may change in the future. It has happened with other posters I didn't really like before, but I'm not going to lie to you about it now. However, for what it's worth, I think it stems more from just a fundamental difference in viewpoint than any personal flaw on your part. I know that doesn't make it any nicer, perhaps, but it's honestly how I feel about you. It would be disingenuous of me to say "nothing personal" about the situation.
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vickles
zixar I have a private post to you...thanks
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
[This message was edited by vickles on March 04, 2004 at 0:22.]
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GarthP2000
(3rd rate gospel muzak in the background) ... Praise Zix, .... praise Zix, .... p-r-a-i-s-e ZIX!!!.....(till someone mercifully yanks the plug on the muzak
:D-->)
Meanwhile, still nobody has come forward in remembering what that All Important Thread was all about that this thread was started out on.
Was it about THE? ... Was it Yet Another Thread about Mastering Smikeol's Piffle? ... Was it even about snow cones? Inquiring minds wanna know. ....
AH AH AH!! Don't look!
Gotta remember it from memory, since it was so Gawd-awful important for some folks to raise such a fuss about censoring it and all and reporting it to Paw.
What? I gotta give a prize for the first one who remembers it?? Hells bells!
--> ... Ok, first one who gets the right answer wins ..... a free full recording of Howard Dean's Primal Scream political speech that cost him the nomination! 
Runner ups get a free Greasespot Cafe board game for you and your entire family.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Zixar
Garth: Rocky answered you shortly after you posted the first time...
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GarthP2000
Zix,
And so he has. HOWEVER, as author of that thread, he is disqualified from winning the Grande Prize of the Day. Altho' he can take home the Greasespot Cafe board game as a consolation prize if he wishes. (Gotta get rid of all this back inventory of board games, doncha know)
I guess I musta missed his answer that was buried in all the ((ahem)) 'hubris'.
:D-->
Carry on!
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Radar OReilly
Laleo,
I may be sorry I asked this question....
What was Rocky's former handle at Waydale? Am I the only person here at Greasespot that doesn't know he had a different persona before?
I addressed this to Laleo....but any of you that know...PLEASE, jump right in here.
Rocky, is THIS TRUE?
Radar
[This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on March 04, 2004 at 9:20.]
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