Of the supposed one billion Christians on the planet, I wonder how many of them can read, or have the bible accessible to them in their native language, much less know what a Strong's Concordance is. -->
You take PFAL - Foundational, Intermediate - then repeat those, plus Christian Family & Sex, Acts Weekends, you-name-it - then you're eligible for the Advanced Class.
Suddenly, the cult you're in decided that PFAL is an "old wine skin".
New classes, new language and you're back to square one.
You're looking for answers, for truth, for better understanding. They're looking for more ways to get your money, to keep you in their sphere of influence - for you to be their disciple - NOT Jesus Christ's!
Another prime example is how Martin Luther brought the Bible to the layman. The Roman Catholic church had Bibles - but not in a way that John Doe could read it - a purposeful languarge barrier to keep the layman dumb. Luther brought the Bible to everyone - the way God intended it.
Then along comes a preacher man from New Knoxville who says he wishes we could read it in the "original text"....
I agree it is a very effective method. It may be going to far to say that striving for precision because YOU choose to is harmful. Having that be the end goal is pretty suspect though. Especially when it's precise mastery of what someone else said.
It seems one could err the other way too though. Living life based on pure emotion. "Just love, man" sounds nice but it's pretty vague. I've seen comments along those lines on this site and they seem more fortune-cookie logic to me than a plan for life.
Yes your right , this is kind of evil but that is exactly how I mess with their head .
Twi was so great for a minute , till ya learn how small it truly is in research and knowledge of God.
flash 22 years after leaving the "word studies" Im talking to the people who have been doing this five times longer than I ever did and they were serious then and more serious now and If I throw one just one tiny little verse not used by twi in this lesson they go nuts and start asking about my inability to organize my house correctly or something els profoundly personal or they ask hwere I learned that looking for a church or author to attack personly.
they can not I mean to tell ya CAN NOT expand away from the teaching in any way and learn or even listen .
I play with their head this way sometimes, do not call me cruel Im not the one in a cult with a self righteous know it all attitude.
YET it is fun on a saturday night I tell . Talk about the book of revelation and they will tell ya God doesnt want us to understand it and they are the research experts hahahahahaha. it is true.
Ask a question you know pfal never covered, I do this all the time hahahaha they feel stale and get angry .
christians I know outside of the way talk and discuss without the need for complete utter agreement or understanding of what the bible may say about something , the fellowship is for comfort not so much academic stimulation and one up manship. It is about loving and caring about one another listening and hearing sharing life knowing Jesus as LOrd. God blesses our learning of His way which is so high the bible actuly states we cannot understand the blessing is not about a debate or exactness it is about learning to Love as He loved us and gave His life for us.
I truly believe the reason they will not vist a church with ya or consider hearing another organization christian teaching is because they know they are stupid and can not really participate in genuine fellowship or learning without the cult screaming in their head to not listen to any information unless fed to them by twi.
it is fear .
If they have the truth then why cant they go into any group and feel confident in their exact learning and share it????
quote:One of the ways cults control their members aside from the usual stuff like control of information, family etc., is to take advantage of peoples quest for exact answers.
Hi Pat, so then what you're saying is, the reason why we decided to stay in TWI for 10, 15, 20, 25 years is because TWI taught us exact answers that made sense and we fully accepted, like how to get born again, dead not being alive, Jesus is not God, etc. etc.?
I think I agree, although our conclusions are different.
Yes the battle is more enjoyable when the ENEMY is unarmed.
I think Christ came to help Gods children, as ambassadors would it not make sense our position also be one of rescue and love as well? of sacrafice .
of course it is written but when Jeuses finished the job of salavation for mankind the only thing left is to accept it and enjoy what we have.
the works puff up the ego, and make bullies our of men and woman who have the orders of serving one another, rmember the word on a silver platter?? all people really need is a small piece of bread and some wine and to remember it is what christ accomplished!
Your assumptions about the length of our involvement in twi is in error ....oldies
The REASON some of us stayed 10 15 20 years ...is that even when we hated being a part of twi.......we were told that to leave meant we were posessed...we risked death by leaving the protection of God`s household...we were out to lunch spiritually and our family and friends would no longer risk speaking to us...
It was flat out FEAR that twi instilled in us with their wrong teachings that kept many of us involved in spite of the horrors endured.....
It had very little to do with actually recieving anything of benefit.
This is another point where we disagree, Rascal. I think we could have left anytime we wanted. We did. I think we stayed, because we received benefits and blessings. When things became unacceptable, we left. Individual cases may vary.
Disagree all you please...however, Your personal reasons for remaining are not any body elses but your own for staying involved... I refute your theory, for that is all it is.
The pressure applied to many of us through scriptural black mail was enough to prevent many of us from leaving...even when things became abusive, and untenable.
The pressure of not wanting to lose friends and break up marriages held many in bondage as well....
Your proclomation that the majority of us stayed for so long because of benefits recieved....is wrong
Shoot if you think so many stayed because twi was so special...why don`t you start a poll and SEE how why folks stuck around for so long?
I agree with you on the marriages part...that's a good point because then you're not just making decisions based upon yourself, but someone else very special...
Oldie, TWI made the decisions in a marriage if one decided it be best to leave. One eye open and one eye closed.
If you had children then it was even more important to try to stay together. That is, unless you're the type who loves TWI more than your family. Many turned their back on marriage and family in exchange for the love of the household. Not God Oldies, but man.
Pat.... good points. I think that in my case anyway...That in focusing on the minutae of the facts...the single minded absorption of *mastering* the principles and techniques of scriptures ...in reality I was steared away from life, family, God, logical thought process...personal goals and desires...there was no room for anything but the persuit of spirituality through study of twi doctrines.
I first wanted to leave because it felt "weird" but then I had a major tragedy in my life and the only people I felt comfortable talking about it with were my HFC's.
Then I met my spouse and I "put up with" some things because I was in love.
Then I really wanted out but was afraid to talk about it because I didn't want God to strike me down or "allow" my family or me to get hurt or killed.
Them I found out about the lawsuits, found WayDale and GSpot and REALLY wanted out but was afraid of my spouse thinking I was possessed for going on the internet.
Then I told my spouse I wasn't happy with TWI and was told not to break up our marriage by leaving TWI.
Then I just quit talking and started dying inside.
Wayward, I remember during TWI-1 there were a few folks I knew who's spouses didn't accept TWI. The "believing" spouse went to twig, while the "unbelieving" spouse stayed home. The "unbeliever" was considered "sanctified" and it seemed like as long as the couple had an understanding with each other, it was ok. Seemed to work ok then. I wish these things were that simple.
**MAure is standing on her purple velvet and jewel encrusted soapbox**
TO persons that are remaining in TWI because their Spouse won't leave.
I submit that:
if you are miserable at least part of every week,
If you can't share you heart openly and honestly with the person you married,
If you feel like you are alone in your marriage,
If you are going through the motions to fulfill what you perceive is your "duty" but joy and happiness is missing most of the time
If you make decisions based on what others want and mandate disregarding your own wants and feelings on a consistant basis.
IF even two of these are true ----YOU NO LONGER HAVE A FUNCTIONING MARRIAGE
Not By Secular Standards NOR By Biblical Standards ( Reread Ephesians)
YOU have two Choices::
YOu can continue to be Miserable--and therfore hinder your own growth--as well as not being terribly effective in helping others
OR You can take the plunge--pick a quiet time sit and talk to your spouse about how you feel and then present concrete actions you intend to take if things are not rectified.
THis is VERY hard and Very Scarey, and you feel like you are jumping off a cliff without a parachute.
But you must ask yourself the question Is it better to stay on the cliff and continue to "Starve" or jump and get the chance to perhaps create a wonderful life
I agree - the exactness factor is a method of cult control. If you are not getting the answers - you are not detailed and accurate enough, which means you have to keep on keeping your nose to the grindstone to get results doncha know!!
I thought it was fun to hear the detailed teachings at first and to do Word studies (church never taught me that)
But attention to detail is only one factor in salvation (wholeness) there is gist, feelings, love, optimism, morality, hope, etc, etc. etc.
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alfakat
very well put, Pat--knowledge(alone) puffeth up, love edifys, builds with structure that lasts...
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ex10
excellent point, Pat.
Of the supposed one billion Christians on the planet, I wonder how many of them can read, or have the bible accessible to them in their native language, much less know what a Strong's Concordance is.
-->
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pjroberge
ex:
Well, all those people that can't read or study to show themselves approved before men have no chance of salvation.
Or if they are born again, it isn't the "good kind" of salvation like when you study....
Yup, they must all be doomed...
-->
"A battle of wits is hardly enjoyable when the other party is unarmed"
Copyright 2004 by the author
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ChasUFarley
It's called "The Present Truth", to be exact.
You take PFAL - Foundational, Intermediate - then repeat those, plus Christian Family & Sex, Acts Weekends, you-name-it - then you're eligible for the Advanced Class.
Suddenly, the cult you're in decided that PFAL is an "old wine skin".
New classes, new language and you're back to square one.
You're looking for answers, for truth, for better understanding. They're looking for more ways to get your money, to keep you in their sphere of influence - for you to be their disciple - NOT Jesus Christ's!
Another prime example is how Martin Luther brought the Bible to the layman. The Roman Catholic church had Bibles - but not in a way that John Doe could read it - a purposeful languarge barrier to keep the layman dumb. Luther brought the Bible to everyone - the way God intended it.
Then along comes a preacher man from New Knoxville who says he wishes we could read it in the "original text"....
And you're back to square one...
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JustThinking
Pj,
I agree it is a very effective method. It may be going to far to say that striving for precision because YOU choose to is harmful. Having that be the end goal is pretty suspect though. Especially when it's precise mastery of what someone else said.
It seems one could err the other way too though. Living life based on pure emotion. "Just love, man" sounds nice but it's pretty vague. I've seen comments along those lines on this site and they seem more fortune-cookie logic to me than a plan for life.
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dmiller
Chas --- U ROCK!!!
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
No offense meant, but that was the most intelligently, thoughfully CYNICAL way of putting it!!
Now why didn't I think of that?
--> 
--> 
-->
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mj412
Yes your right , this is kind of evil but that is exactly how I mess with their head .
Twi was so great for a minute , till ya learn how small it truly is in research and knowledge of God.
flash 22 years after leaving the "word studies" Im talking to the people who have been doing this five times longer than I ever did and they were serious then and more serious now and If I throw one just one tiny little verse not used by twi in this lesson they go nuts and start asking about my inability to organize my house correctly or something els profoundly personal or they ask hwere I learned that looking for a church or author to attack personly.
they can not I mean to tell ya CAN NOT expand away from the teaching in any way and learn or even listen .
I play with their head this way sometimes, do not call me cruel Im not the one in a cult with a self righteous know it all attitude.
YET it is fun on a saturday night I tell . Talk about the book of revelation and they will tell ya God doesnt want us to understand it and they are the research experts hahahahahaha. it is true.
Ask a question you know pfal never covered, I do this all the time hahahaha they feel stale and get angry .
christians I know outside of the way talk and discuss without the need for complete utter agreement or understanding of what the bible may say about something , the fellowship is for comfort not so much academic stimulation and one up manship. It is about loving and caring about one another listening and hearing sharing life knowing Jesus as LOrd. God blesses our learning of His way which is so high the bible actuly states we cannot understand the blessing is not about a debate or exactness it is about learning to Love as He loved us and gave His life for us.
I truly believe the reason they will not vist a church with ya or consider hearing another organization christian teaching is because they know they are stupid and can not really participate in genuine fellowship or learning without the cult screaming in their head to not listen to any information unless fed to them by twi.
it is fear .
If they have the truth then why cant they go into any group and feel confident in their exact learning and share it????
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Oakspear
MJ...you're cruel
:D--> 
;)-->
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
Oakspear
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Juan Cruz
I LOVED the "exactness" of TWI's pseudo-studies.
I remember we stayed up most of the night studying the diff. between heteros and allos in Galatians once after VP obfuscated it royally.
Not that genuine Greek scholarship isn't valuable... but re:the New Knoxville brand.. I gotta imagine God both laughed and cried that night.
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oldiesman
Hi Pat, so then what you're saying is, the reason why we decided to stay in TWI for 10, 15, 20, 25 years is because TWI taught us exact answers that made sense and we fully accepted, like how to get born again, dead not being alive, Jesus is not God, etc. etc.?
I think I agree, although our conclusions are different.
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mj412
Yes the battle is more enjoyable when the ENEMY is unarmed.
I think Christ came to help Gods children, as ambassadors would it not make sense our position also be one of rescue and love as well? of sacrafice .
of course it is written but when Jeuses finished the job of salavation for mankind the only thing left is to accept it and enjoy what we have.
the works puff up the ego, and make bullies our of men and woman who have the orders of serving one another, rmember the word on a silver platter?? all people really need is a small piece of bread and some wine and to remember it is what christ accomplished!
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rascal
Your assumptions about the length of our involvement in twi is in error ....oldies
The REASON some of us stayed 10 15 20 years ...is that even when we hated being a part of twi.......we were told that to leave meant we were posessed...we risked death by leaving the protection of God`s household...we were out to lunch spiritually and our family and friends would no longer risk speaking to us...
It was flat out FEAR that twi instilled in us with their wrong teachings that kept many of us involved in spite of the horrors endured.....
It had very little to do with actually recieving anything of benefit.
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oldiesman
This is another point where we disagree, Rascal. I think we could have left anytime we wanted. We did. I think we stayed, because we received benefits and blessings. When things became unacceptable, we left. Individual cases may vary.
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rascal
Disagree all you please...however, Your personal reasons for remaining are not any body elses but your own for staying involved... I refute your theory, for that is all it is.
The pressure applied to many of us through scriptural black mail was enough to prevent many of us from leaving...even when things became abusive, and untenable.
The pressure of not wanting to lose friends and break up marriages held many in bondage as well....
Your proclomation that the majority of us stayed for so long because of benefits recieved....is wrong
Shoot if you think so many stayed because twi was so special...why don`t you start a poll and SEE how why folks stuck around for so long?
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oldiesman
I agree with you on the marriages part...that's a good point because then you're not just making decisions based upon yourself, but someone else very special...
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sadie
Oldie, TWI made the decisions in a marriage if one decided it be best to leave. One eye open and one eye closed.
If you had children then it was even more important to try to stay together. That is, unless you're the type who loves TWI more than your family. Many turned their back on marriage and family in exchange for the love of the household. Not God Oldies, but man.
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rascal
Pat.... good points. I think that in my case anyway...That in focusing on the minutae of the facts...the single minded absorption of *mastering* the principles and techniques of scriptures ...in reality I was steared away from life, family, God, logical thought process...personal goals and desires...there was no room for anything but the persuit of spirituality through study of twi doctrines.
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oldiesman
I was under the impression that the Way Corps rule was, if one wanted to leave or had to leave, the partner also had to leave?
That's why I always found it exceedingly hypocritical why Donna Martindale got to stay at hq when Craig left.
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WaywardWayfer
I first wanted to leave because it felt "weird" but then I had a major tragedy in my life and the only people I felt comfortable talking about it with were my HFC's.
Then I met my spouse and I "put up with" some things because I was in love.
Then I really wanted out but was afraid to talk about it because I didn't want God to strike me down or "allow" my family or me to get hurt or killed.
Them I found out about the lawsuits, found WayDale and GSpot and REALLY wanted out but was afraid of my spouse thinking I was possessed for going on the internet.
Then I told my spouse I wasn't happy with TWI and was told not to break up our marriage by leaving TWI.
Then I just quit talking and started dying inside.
I still want to leave TWI.
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sadie
WW..>
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Tom Strange
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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oldiesman
Wayward, I remember during TWI-1 there were a few folks I knew who's spouses didn't accept TWI. The "believing" spouse went to twig, while the "unbelieving" spouse stayed home. The "unbeliever" was considered "sanctified" and it seemed like as long as the couple had an understanding with each other, it was ok. Seemed to work ok then. I wish these things were that simple.
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templelady
**MAure is standing on her purple velvet and jewel encrusted soapbox**
TO persons that are remaining in TWI because their Spouse won't leave.
I submit that:
if you are miserable at least part of every week,
If you can't share you heart openly and honestly with the person you married,
If you feel like you are alone in your marriage,
If you are going through the motions to fulfill what you perceive is your "duty" but joy and happiness is missing most of the time
If you make decisions based on what others want and mandate disregarding your own wants and feelings on a consistant basis.
IF even two of these are true ----YOU NO LONGER HAVE A FUNCTIONING MARRIAGE
Not By Secular Standards NOR By Biblical Standards ( Reread Ephesians)
YOU have two Choices::
YOu can continue to be Miserable--and therfore hinder your own growth--as well as not being terribly effective in helping others
OR You can take the plunge--pick a quiet time sit and talk to your spouse about how you feel and then present concrete actions you intend to take if things are not rectified.
THis is VERY hard and Very Scarey, and you feel like you are jumping off a cliff without a parachute.
But you must ask yourself the question Is it better to stay on the cliff and continue to "Starve" or jump and get the chance to perhaps create a wonderful life
THere are no blanket right answers.
But think about it --- PLEASE---
**MAure leaving soapbox**
MO
(who Used to be Maure)
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CircleGame
I agree - the exactness factor is a method of cult control. If you are not getting the answers - you are not detailed and accurate enough, which means you have to keep on keeping your nose to the grindstone to get results doncha know!!
I thought it was fun to hear the detailed teachings at first and to do Word studies (church never taught me that)
But attention to detail is only one factor in salvation (wholeness) there is gist, feelings, love, optimism, morality, hope, etc, etc. etc.
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