Good question. I would have to say that YES, is the answer.
Can it be that by leading us into a more submitted and obedient relationship with Jesus as Lord, is really what worshipping God "in Spirit" and "in Truth" is all about?
After all, the Comforter is called "the Spirit of truth".
Perhaps part of the problem here is we are trying to define that which cannot be completely defined. It is what it is and we recognize it to some degree some of the time, but we can't define it.
Another thing which may be problematic is that we want others to define it for us, perhaps to validate what we recognize but can't define. But holy spirit would be and individual and unique thing and how it manifests and works for one individual is not the same for another. For example, the preacher JF spoke of. He wanted her husband to have the same response he had, but perhaps this is simply not how holy spirit works in her husband.
Additionally, we want it to be scientific. We want to have the same cause and effect pattern repeat over and over again and when it doesn't we get upset or discouraged or doubtful. But what one needs in one instance will not be the same in the next.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
I think some of the difficulty lies in the fact that many times we tend to focus on forms (tongues etc.) as opposed to the function (closer, submitted and obedient relationship).
It seems the Holy Spirit is more interested in function than forms.
quote:For example, the preacher JF spoke of. He wanted her husband to have the same response he had, but perhaps this is simply not how holy spirit works in her husband.
Exactly my point, GF. Thank you. :)-->
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
I have friends who have "fallen under the power" at conferences and they have all said the Holy Spirit ministered to them while they were on the floor. It has never happened to me that way, but I know the HS has ministered to me in other ways at the same conferences. I believe we are all "wired" uniquely and what is important is that we submit ourselves to the HS and let Him minister to us however He wants to. The manifestations are not what's important (meaning if we fall out of our chairs or not).
Sorry, Abigail, didn't notice you just said the same thing...so I'm agreeing with you.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Waterbuffalo --- "Wired Uniquely" Yes. That says it all. :)--> My experience may not match another's, but that does not mean mine is "right", and their's is "wrong".
Now we have learn on these boards that some fake speaking in tongues
So some fake slain in the spirit but what slain in the spirit is its Virtue
And Virtue is power whether the power trows you to the floor or comes out of your mouth it is still virtue or the power of Christ in you outcoming
But in all right and true virtue there is a comfort
Whether it be words or a feeling
I think there is a story in the Bible were Paul was trow off a horse or at least trow to the grown
Now I believe it is good to get to know the people so you can find who is real and who is fake
Because the ones who fake want to feel that power and truth and you can help by teaching about gifts of spirit and lead them into one
How I believe slain in the spirit works is the person longs to receive the power of God to the point once they receive the power of the gift they are not ready for it
It is like a surprise gift that more than you ever throught it could be
You see we were taught in stages and build up to receiving the power but some get it fast without the build up teaching around it
Now at times it comes by asking for a healing that they are not ready more
But what I do not like is that some make a show of it
But when it comes and one not ready for it that ok but let the spirit flow to others
Now the spirit is all ways moving and flowing we just need to let it go
I not sure what elst to say but keep the pressure off others and let it flow
Agreed. I'm not sure why some people DO fake it, are you? It's not something I'm inclined to do, but who knows? Maybe they think they're supposed to DO something because it's not happening for them (talking about people getting ministered to, not those ministering). I'm not inclined to judge them for that because they have to give an account of their own lives and I've probably done worse in other areas of mine.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, (store-chamber) and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Right on, Jesusfreaky.
Some of my greatest mountain moving experiences have been in my secret place with just God, me and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Roy, I think you've gotit!! Yes, giving in to peer pressure.
Lightside, yep, the HS has ministered the most to me right in my own prayer closet, too, right here in my own home. Thanks for bringing that up because I thought about that earlier too.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Definitely. Function over form is the emphasis I think. And yes, the holy spirit leads us into a relationship of submission and obedience to Jesus Christ. But I think there's more, as far as worship goes. ;)-->
Sometimes our response to the working of the holy spirit can be quite moving and emotional, and may include many expressions by us. But I do have a problem with the "slain in the spirit" thing, and I don't think it's just because I was raised Catholic. I think it's because our response is totally up to us, not out of our control.
Good points, Abigail. Even though the holy spirit is "one size fits all" in a way, we all wear it differently. :)-->
... the holy spirit leads us into a relationship of submission and obedience to Jesus Christ...I think there's more, as far as worship goes...But I do have a problem with the "slain in the spirit" thing, and I don't think it's just because I was raised Catholic. I think it's because our response is totally up to us, not out of our control.
Ex10,
You just reminded me of why people lift holy hands during praise and worship...because it's a universal sign of surrender.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Not only that, but in a more contemporary service, you don't have to hold a prayer book or hymnal to follow along, so we're freer to express ourselves during worship. :)-->
I've had exwayfers tell me that they have a problem with physical expressions of worship. No wonder some people got upset when David danced naked before the Lord. They thought it wasn't dignified enough for the king to be acting like that. Hmmm.....
I love worship service where I can express my gratitude and surrender myself to the Lord by singing to Him and lifting up holy hands to Him. I never dreamed in a million years that I would do this, but it is so healing. I was pretty freaked out to do it, so I didn't for a long time after joining my church. I realized how stiff I was concerning a relationship with God. I didn't want to be stiff. I wanted to be a friend of God, so I gave in, unclenched those tight muscles that my waybrain caused, and decided to enjoy my newfound relationship.
Some of the songs are so healing and really put in you in the frame of mind of how much you really need God. Some really get my heart to realze what God accomplished for us. It is so different to be in a surrendering mind-set than to think that you have it all together. I don't have it all together, and I need God to help me. I never learned that while in twi.
Cool Wayfer, I love that song too. I like to play it in the car while I'm driving. In fact, the whole CD, City on a Hill, is one of my favs. Third Day is coming here in May, and doing an outdoor concert. I can't wait!! ;)-->
Another thing I thought of....in the Catholic church, people, genuflect, kneel, make the sign of the cross, during worship and nobody thinks anything of it, because it's their tradition.
Lotza times, while worshipping, or "being ministered to" people respond emotionally by crying. Sometimes the tears just flow. I think it's a release for people. God created us physically to cry and shed tears to express deep emotion. It's actually physically cleansing to cry. He knew in his wisdom that we needed physical ways to release great emotion. Some people get uptight with that, but I think it's more of a cultural prohibition than anything else. It's harder for men than women, cause they're taught that men don't cry, especially not in public.
I always cry at weddings and funerals, the birth of babies, and sometimes at church. ;)--> I'm glad I'm female, so I don't have to be embarrassed. :D-->
I first started this in my prayer closet. I started to pray to God with added emotion for emphasis. God said keep doin' it, you will see answered prayer. Than God said now pray like Jesus prayed: talk to the mountain, tell the sickness,disease,problem, whatever, to leave, be loosed, bound, removed. I tried it, with the kind of emotion Jesus had when he talked to the fig tree. Oh, my God, Miracles. It works....It works even better with childlike faith and a heart hellbent on seein' something happen.Now I pray like this at fellowship. It is very powerful. Sometimes, at fellowship, people mention something they want prayer for, than ask me to pray.
Jesus knew how to pray......lets be like him.....lets pray like he prayed.....It's in the gospels, hidden there, Oh, may our eyes be opened.
In private, I raise my holy hands. Someday I will not be afraid to do it in public. For me, it's my way of releasing my believing faith to God.
I wrote a word of prophecy and it just happen to fix here I had pray that God would teach me somthing special today and he did
quote:
For I love you my children You are the apple of my eye. You are the children of truth and light. And I am the great light that gives your light its glow
Its is me that made all things happen and without me nothing can happen. Jesus Christ my son is the way unto me. For it is the Christ in you that makes you lights of this world.
I tell of there is no greater love than that love that Christ has gave you. For you he did not just give his life but his whole being his inner self and his outer self so that you might have life for evermore.
By the acts of Christ death has lost its power and its just a matter of time until its of no more. For one day you will not even recall that there was a curse know as death.
As you live in love you grow in truth . Learn that which is pure and that which is just. For it is Christ that is purifying your heart in truth
Breathe the breath of spirit which some call holy spirit. For it is the breath of the spirit. And as the spirit breaths out the power of the breaths go into the world. One is call prophecy and another is faith and all together there are seven plus two.
The two plus are the two that came after Christ rose from the dead and they are the witness of Christ. Just as air comes in the body to help man kind and air goes out of the body to help plant kind. Air goes in the spiritual body the Christ in you to help the spirit and air goes out of spiritual body the Christ in you to help the natural body.
Now I have share these things with you to bless you and help you grow in love . May my love be in you.
Meeeeeeeeee too Excie...I've even started tearing up at the previews! I'm such a sap!
I think the movie will bring people to a whole new appreciation for what Jesus has done for them.
quote: Lotza times, while worshipping, or "being ministered to" people respond emotionally by crying. Sometimes the tears just flow. I think it's a release for people. God created us physically to cry and shed tears to express deep emotion. It's actually physically cleansing to cry. He knew in his wisdom that we needed physical ways to release great emotion.
It's times like these, when I pour my heart and emotions out to Him I feel closest to Him. Isn't it a shame that TWI made us to feel that we were to remain ''at arms length'' from the Father??? I just love laying my head on his lap and bawling my eyes out to Him in complete worship. Gives me the ''warm and fuzzies''! :D-->
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
I love having a relationship with the Lord now. In twi, it was so cold and distant. I remember being told that if we had any vision of God in our minds, it was idolatrous. I remember also being told that it was not available to have a personal relationship with God.
This morning on my way to work, I was thinking about listening to the inner man. Who is the inner man? Is it Christ? I think so because I still believe in Christ in me. I was also remembering about the spirit revealing things to us. In twi, it was our gift, but I really believe now it is the Holy Spirit. I was trying to differentiate between the difference between the spirit in us and the inner man. Is there any difference? Maybe not. Maybe each has a different function.
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Greek2me
Ex,
Good question. I would have to say that YES, is the answer.
Can it be that by leading us into a more submitted and obedient relationship with Jesus as Lord, is really what worshipping God "in Spirit" and "in Truth" is all about?
After all, the Comforter is called "the Spirit of truth".
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Abigail
Perhaps part of the problem here is we are trying to define that which cannot be completely defined. It is what it is and we recognize it to some degree some of the time, but we can't define it.
Another thing which may be problematic is that we want others to define it for us, perhaps to validate what we recognize but can't define. But holy spirit would be and individual and unique thing and how it manifests and works for one individual is not the same for another. For example, the preacher JF spoke of. He wanted her husband to have the same response he had, but perhaps this is simply not how holy spirit works in her husband.
Additionally, we want it to be scientific. We want to have the same cause and effect pattern repeat over and over again and when it doesn't we get upset or discouraged or doubtful. But what one needs in one instance will not be the same in the next.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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Greek2me
Abigail,
Good points.
I think some of the difficulty lies in the fact that many times we tend to focus on forms (tongues etc.) as opposed to the function (closer, submitted and obedient relationship).
It seems the Holy Spirit is more interested in function than forms.
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jezusfreaky
Originally posted by Abi...
Exactly my point, GF. Thank you.
:)-->
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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waterbuffalo
dmiller and Roy,
I have friends who have "fallen under the power" at conferences and they have all said the Holy Spirit ministered to them while they were on the floor. It has never happened to me that way, but I know the HS has ministered to me in other ways at the same conferences. I believe we are all "wired" uniquely and what is important is that we submit ourselves to the HS and let Him minister to us however He wants to. The manifestations are not what's important (meaning if we fall out of our chairs or not).
Sorry, Abigail, didn't notice you just said the same thing...so I'm agreeing with you.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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dmiller
Waterbuffalo --- "Wired Uniquely" Yes. That says it all.
:)--> My experience may not match another's, but that does not mean mine is "right", and their's is "wrong". 
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year2027
Hi Water Buffalo
I guess I did not say it plain
What I am saying is some is real and some is fake
Now we have learn on these boards that some fake speaking in tongues
So some fake slain in the spirit but what slain in the spirit is its Virtue
And Virtue is power whether the power trows you to the floor or comes out of your mouth it is still virtue or the power of Christ in you outcoming
But in all right and true virtue there is a comfort
Whether it be words or a feeling
I think there is a story in the Bible were Paul was trow off a horse or at least trow to the grown
Now I believe it is good to get to know the people so you can find who is real and who is fake
Because the ones who fake want to feel that power and truth and you can help by teaching about gifts of spirit and lead them into one
How I believe slain in the spirit works is the person longs to receive the power of God to the point once they receive the power of the gift they are not ready for it
It is like a surprise gift that more than you ever throught it could be
You see we were taught in stages and build up to receiving the power but some get it fast without the build up teaching around it
Now at times it comes by asking for a healing that they are not ready more
But what I do not like is that some make a show of it
But when it comes and one not ready for it that ok but let the spirit flow to others
Now the spirit is all ways moving and flowing we just need to let it go
I not sure what elst to say but keep the pressure off others and let it flow
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waterbuffalo
Roy,
Agreed. I'm not sure why some people DO fake it, are you? It's not something I'm inclined to do, but who knows? Maybe they think they're supposed to DO something because it's not happening for them (talking about people getting ministered to, not those ministering). I'm not inclined to judge them for that because they have to give an account of their own lives and I've probably done worse in other areas of mine.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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year2027
Hi Water Buffalo
I think the reason some fake it is peer pressure
And some to look big or other reasons
You know in the class we were to SIT the 12 part
Now I never fake it but I fake other things in life but until I got to the point of truth about it I could not change it
And I still fake singing from time to time but I like to sing
I just have fear I will be off tone I think I will ask a friend to help me learn to sing in tone
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Lightside
Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, (store-chamber) and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Right on, Jesusfreaky.
Some of my greatest mountain moving experiences have been in my secret place with just God, me and the power of the Holy Spirit.
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waterbuffalo
Roy, I think you've gotit!! Yes, giving in to peer pressure.
Lightside, yep, the HS has ministered the most to me right in my own prayer closet, too, right here in my own home. Thanks for bringing that up because I thought about that earlier too.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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ex10
Greek,
Definitely. Function over form is the emphasis I think. And yes, the holy spirit leads us into a relationship of submission and obedience to Jesus Christ. But I think there's more, as far as worship goes.
;)-->
Sometimes our response to the working of the holy spirit can be quite moving and emotional, and may include many expressions by us. But I do have a problem with the "slain in the spirit" thing, and I don't think it's just because I was raised Catholic. I think it's because our response is totally up to us, not out of our control.
Good points, Abigail. Even though the holy spirit is "one size fits all" in a way, we all wear it differently.
:)-->
Lightside,
I bet Jesus was there, too.
:D-->
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waterbuffalo
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ex10
WB,
Not only that, but in a more contemporary service, you don't have to hold a prayer book or hymnal to follow along, so we're freer to express ourselves during worship.
:)-->
I've had exwayfers tell me that they have a problem with physical expressions of worship. No wonder some people got upset when David danced naked before the Lord. They thought it wasn't dignified enough for the king to be acting like that. Hmmm.....
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Nottawayfer
I love worship service where I can express my gratitude and surrender myself to the Lord by singing to Him and lifting up holy hands to Him. I never dreamed in a million years that I would do this, but it is so healing. I was pretty freaked out to do it, so I didn't for a long time after joining my church. I realized how stiff I was concerning a relationship with God. I didn't want to be stiff. I wanted to be a friend of God, so I gave in, unclenched those tight muscles that my waybrain caused, and decided to enjoy my newfound relationship.
Some of the songs are so healing and really put in you in the frame of mind of how much you really need God. Some really get my heart to realze what God accomplished for us. It is so different to be in a surrendering mind-set than to think that you have it all together. I don't have it all together, and I need God to help me. I never learned that while in twi.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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Nottawayfer
Here's one of my favorites...
:)-->
God of Wonders
Lord of all creation
Of water earth and sky
The heavens are your tabernacle
Glory to the Lord on high
Chorus:
God of wonders beyond our galaxy
You are holy, holy
The universe declares your majesty
You are holy, holy
Lord of heaven and earth
Lord of heaven and earth
Early in the morning
I will celebrate the light
When I stumble in the darkness
I will call your name by night
Chorus
God of wonders beyond our galaxy
You are holy, holy
The universe declares your majesty
You are holy, holy
Lord of heaven and earth
Lord of heaven and earth
Hallelujah... to the Lord of heaven and earth
Hallelujah... to the Lord of heaven and earth
Hallelujah... to the Lord of heaven and earth
God of wonders beyond our galaxy
You are holy, holy
The universe declares your majesty
You are holy, holy
(x3)
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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waterbuffalo
I love that too!
THANKS Wafer Not!
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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ex10
Cool Wayfer, I love that song too. I like to play it in the car while I'm driving. In fact, the whole CD, City on a Hill, is one of my favs. Third Day is coming here in May, and doing an outdoor concert. I can't wait!!
;)-->
Another thing I thought of....in the Catholic church, people, genuflect, kneel, make the sign of the cross, during worship and nobody thinks anything of it, because it's their tradition.
Lotza times, while worshipping, or "being ministered to" people respond emotionally by crying. Sometimes the tears just flow. I think it's a release for people. God created us physically to cry and shed tears to express deep emotion. It's actually physically cleansing to cry. He knew in his wisdom that we needed physical ways to release great emotion. Some people get uptight with that, but I think it's more of a cultural prohibition than anything else. It's harder for men than women, cause they're taught that men don't cry, especially not in public.
I always cry at weddings and funerals, the birth of babies, and sometimes at church.
;)--> I'm glad I'm female, so I don't have to be embarrassed. 
:D-->
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ex10
PS I cry during movies, too. I'm gonna take a new box of kleenex with me when I go see Mel Gibson's new movie.
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Lightside
EX10 said:
I bet Jesus was there, too.
EX10, I think your right.
I first started this in my prayer closet. I started to pray to God with added emotion for emphasis. God said keep doin' it, you will see answered prayer. Than God said now pray like Jesus prayed: talk to the mountain, tell the sickness,disease,problem, whatever, to leave, be loosed, bound, removed. I tried it, with the kind of emotion Jesus had when he talked to the fig tree. Oh, my God, Miracles. It works....It works even better with childlike faith and a heart hellbent on seein' something happen.Now I pray like this at fellowship. It is very powerful. Sometimes, at fellowship, people mention something they want prayer for, than ask me to pray.
Jesus knew how to pray......lets be like him.....lets pray like he prayed.....It's in the gospels, hidden there, Oh, may our eyes be opened.
In private, I raise my holy hands. Someday I will not be afraid to do it in public. For me, it's my way of releasing my believing faith to God.
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ex10
wow, Lightside
I wish I could go to your fellowship.
;)-->
Check your private topics.
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year2027
Hi All
I wrote a word of prophecy and it just happen to fix here I had pray that God would teach me somthing special today and he did
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jezusfreaky
Meeeeeeeeee too Excie...I've even started tearing up at the previews! I'm such a sap!
I think the movie will bring people to a whole new appreciation for what Jesus has done for them.
It's times like these, when I pour my heart and emotions out to Him I feel closest to Him. Isn't it a shame that TWI made us to feel that we were to remain ''at arms length'' from the Father??? I just love laying my head on his lap and bawling my eyes out to Him in complete worship. Gives me the ''warm and fuzzies''!
:D-->
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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Nottawayfer
I love having a relationship with the Lord now. In twi, it was so cold and distant. I remember being told that if we had any vision of God in our minds, it was idolatrous. I remember also being told that it was not available to have a personal relationship with God.
This morning on my way to work, I was thinking about listening to the inner man. Who is the inner man? Is it Christ? I think so because I still believe in Christ in me. I was also remembering about the spirit revealing things to us. In twi, it was our gift, but I really believe now it is the Holy Spirit. I was trying to differentiate between the difference between the spirit in us and the inner man. Is there any difference? Maybe not. Maybe each has a different function.
Anybody have any ideas?
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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