I have heard of people with CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Deficiency Syndrome) who had their mercury fillings removed and felt much better.
I have heard of people who didn't and were in a full remission of symptoms.
There are so many causes of CFIDS that it is oft impossible to determine the 'exact' cause.
I believe my illness was triggered by several incidents ocurring at the same time. It took nearly two years before the symptoms became alarming instead of just irritating.
For every individual there may be one trigger or many.
Me? I have exactly 17 teeth in my mouth and none of them have any mercury fillings.
For you I wish it was a simple as your fillings, sorry you have had to deal with that illness.
I was hoping you would find a new avenue to look down.
I get migraines and am looking for a reason. I hope it is fillings so I can stop the violent throbbing pain, vomiting, spinning, audible and visual impact and my inability to function.
Thanks for the thoughts and care! I appreciate it immensely.
CFIDS and FMS are a pain, irritating, annoying, rotten, terrible at times, but...
What I have learned wasn't all bad.
I learned to walk with God by myself. It was just God and I for a long time.
Now I have a wonderful husband; we have been friends for 12 years, together as a couple for 11, and legally married for 10 next month.
I have learned to trust Tim as I do God and myself, and so being sick hasn't been all negative.
Thanks for the information, tho. When I was just learning about CFIDS there were so many directions to go, it was hard to make sense of some of the information.
I got involved with the WI CFIDS assoc and got answers and directions.
I have had migraines since I was 9, which have decreased as I have gotten older. There are many medications that help that aren't narcotics. Imitrex is one of them, and when it works it is like a miracle of biblical magnitude. Unfortunately for me, it stopped working, fortunately now that I am in mentalpause (menopause)the migraines come less and less. There is a hormonal component to migraines. Look into that with your doctor, ok?
You might want to click HERE! to read what the American Dental Association has to say about it. I don't think it'll change your mind but silver fillings are safe. Two tiny drops of mercury are added to the mix of silver, zinc and assorted other innocous ingredients to make a silver filling. Heck, even if you swallowed two drops of mercury nothing would happen to you but no.. it's mixed and then placed into a cavity that stays for years and years. How much damage could two drops of mercury do over a course of 20-30 years or more?
If you doubt the motives of the American Dental Association in issuing the statement I provided you the link to... just think about what the motives could possibly be. We dentists have advocated the use of fluoride in drinking water since the early 1950's and have been fought at every turn. Folks said it was a Communist plot and even today the lunatic fringe says fluoride will destroy minds and free will. Click HERE! to see what I'm talking about.
But what was dentists' motives? It was to prevent tooth decay and we knew it was 1) safe and 2) effective. That's why we advocated it. Now think about it, Dot. It would have been in the best interest of dentists to ignore fluoride as it "cut into" our business. We had less cavities to fill.. fewer root canals and crowns to perform. But no.. we did what was in the public best interest... safely reduce their dental disease.
Same thing with dental amalgam. We make lots more money restoring decayed teeth with white fillings. It would be easy to jump on the band wagon and decry the use of mercury fillings. We'd all make much more money. But we dentists have a track record of doing what's in the public's best interest and lots of people can't afford our cosmetic dentistry. Silver amalgam is an alternative that is both safe.. and affordable and that's why it's offered.
To be sure, lots or folks don't want ugly metal fillings in their mouths and I rarely place them myself but you have to be careful of the disinformation on the web.. sort through the reliable sources (like the American Dental Association) and come to your own conclusions.
sudo
[This message was edited by Sudo on July 24, 2002 at 11:07.]
I get all four of the migrains which include cluster, on one side, and whatever else the neurologist said. Imitrex wasn't great for me, but Zomig was/is.
I still take about 5 asprin when I feel them coming on and it can help if it is the first stage. I have had very serious problems with these darn things. I hated to ever tell anyone cause TWI told me they were spiritual.
Therefore, I used to hide the fact that I was ill. (Not very well, mind you)
"We dentists have advocated the use of fluoride in drinking water since the early 1950's and have been fought at every turn. Folks said it was a Communist plot and even today the lunatic fringe says fluoride will destroy minds and free will."
I do not mean any insult to you, nor your profession.
In 1983, my supervisor (ETC SS John T. Burg) had to have a series of operations on his jaw. As I understood it, he grew up in Phillidelphia with flouridated water. Supposedly the water's flourine had dissolved his mandible. When I knew him, they had to slice open his jaw and re-pack it full of ground bone, to fill-in for the bone that had leached away.
His multiple operations took a long time, and appeared to be fairly painfull. He seemed certain that it had been caused by the flourine, and the government did the operations on the assumption that flourine was at fault.
Re:"..he grew up in Phillidelphia with flouridated water. Supposedly the water's flourine had dissolved his mandible."
I don't think so. Here's two links for you HERE! and HERE! They are pretty much the history of how we came to fluoridate the water supplies and I think they will answer most questions about fluoride.
You see.. fluoride is naturally found in drinking waters around the world... it's a natural ingredient. We're just trying to add it in areas where it's not found at all.
One thing I did not see is a cost benefit ratio analyses.
For example:
1. The start up costs to add fluoride to the water.
2. The annual cost of adding fluoride to the dater.
3. What percentage of the water would actually be used for drinking as opposed to cleaning, watering lawns etc?
And, why can?t bottled waters company?s have a with and a with out product thereby giving the consuming public a choice? This choice would not increase state and local taxes.
Re:"One thing I did not see is a cost benefit ratio analyses."
Good question. I've got a few links fer 'ya. First click HERE! and HERE! to see the accepted scientific communities' reasoning.
BUT!!! to show that I'm being fair.. you might want to click HERE! to get the "alternative medicine" take on the issue of fluoridation. These guys want the "poison" taken out of the water and to tell you the turth.. it would mean a big boost to my income if they did just that.
I sometimes wonder why we dentists seem to beat our heads against the wall when it is cutting our throats financially. If you look at all the links closely, you'll see that fluoridation has not just significantly reduced tooth decay but massively. I remember my first position as a dentist after graduating dental school back in 1977. It was in Hardeman county Tennessee and the county seat was a little town called Bolivar which had a fluoridated water supply. I was the county public health dentist and saw the indigent children from the entire county.. all of which had no fluoride in the water. Only Bolivar had fluoridated water.
I could tell as soon as the kids opened their mouths where they lived. It was remarkable. The ones living in the county drinking non-fluoridated water were "eat up" with decay while those growing up in Bolivar were pretty much decay free.
I guess I should get on the band wagon and start demanding that the government stop "poisoning" us with fluoride but.. I can't stand having to stick little kids with big needles and then drilling on their teeth. Now, adults are another issue (G)! They come to the office.. open up.. and let me stick them all I want and them drill them but good!.. and after it's all over.. they go up front and pay me for doing it to them. Hee-hee!
But children? They just don't understand. They look up at you with those big sad eyes.. often with tears rolling down their little faces, sometimes imploring that they will "be good" if you just won't give them shots and the like. As if it's their fault they have dental decay... when all it would have taken was a little fluoride to have made the whole procedure unnecessary. And now.. they're afraid of the dentist for the rest of their lives when it could have easily been avoided.
No.. I don't want that kind of business! And neither do most of us dentists! So I have high disdain for those loonies who want to yank the fluoride out of the drinking waters. We know its safe. We know it works.. BIG TIME! So sue me!
I'm sure Sudo can explain this much better than I, but the benefits of dental health cannot be underestimated. I've been fortunate with my teeth, save for 4 fillings and a crown. Oh, and losing the wisdom teeth, too.
So this story is actually about our cat, Sunny. She rules the roost at our house, even though she was the smallest, physically. Sunny was losing weight and had problems with almost daily vomiting, which the vet could find no good cause for. No food allergies, no GI blockage. It was just put down as a finicky stomach, but Sunny was getting down to skin and bones.
Turns out it was her TEETH that were the problem. She had so much tartar build up that it was causing great pain to her gums whenever she chewed anything. So, she was swallowing her food whole and naturally vomiting it back up. The vet anesthetized her and gave her a thorough dental cleaning, and voila'--problem cured. Sunny went from a sickly 9 lbs. to a healthy 12 lbs. in 3 months.
Anybody who has ever cracked a tooth or otherwise had a dental nerve exposed knows how mind-shatteringly painful it can be. Sodium fluoride and dental amalgams have minimal risk for a huge quality-of-life boost. Our bodies have remarkable tolerance to seemingly-nasty environmental pollutants. Last year, the doctors shot poisonous, radioactive thallium-201 into my veins to do a heart test, but I suffered no ill effects. Every atom of thallium-201 decayed within a few days...into an atom of mercury-201.
I had major health problems several years ago. The oppression and stress of trying to live up to the way's impossible standards didn't help either.
I found out about the toxicity of mercury and prayerfully decided to gradually have my fillings replaced. I felt definite improvements physically and mentally.
There's a book called "It's All in Your Head" by Hal Huggins. (I might not have the author's name right) I recommend it HIGHLY. He's a dentist from Colorado.
The established medical circles frown on evidence that is anecdotal (like mine). They think that only double-blind studies, conducted over and over again and published in journal articles is the only way to go.
I, personally, do not agree. Word of mouth and my heavenly Father's go-ahead are all that I need to make such decisions.
If you want to check out the book, you can probably find it at any large natural foods store that stocks books.
A friend of mine had bad headaches and got rid of them by rubbing progesterone cream on her skin once a day for 25 days each month. (She doesn't use it during her period). Headaches were linked to hormones somehow and the cream diminished them substantially. I use the same cream and it seems to make much more calm (less PMS-ish).
More anecdotal evidence, I know, but maybe worth checking into also???
The cynical me thinks this whole movement was started by unscrupulous dentists who want to charge people for replacing all their fillings. Maybe not. Maybe the movers and shakers behind it are completely sincere, but it's a possibility I can't ignore, given the obvious economical advantage of promoting replacement fillings.
On the other hand, those who suffer from chronic pain certainly are justified in checking out possible solutions that are off the medical beaten path.
Why do some alternative therapies/approaches work? Some are genuinely beneficial. Sometimes they're neither beneficial nor harmful, but people using them experience a placebo effect (they expect relief and they get it, just as some people taking "sugar pills" in a clinical trial get the same results as those getting the real pills). I think it's also possible, though, since each of us is different and has different sensitivities to different things, that some people get genuine symptom relief from using these things while some don't.
Dot, I say if you can afford to have all your fillings replaced and you want to go for it, then go for it. What can it hurt? (Well, it might hurt ...I mean what damage can it do?
Personally, I've already put a couple dentists' kids through college, and the thought of spending hours in the chair having all my fillings replaced is right up there with hitting my finger with a hammer.
Re:"The established medical circles frown on evidence that is anecdotal (like mine). They think that only double-blind studies, conducted over and over again and published in journal articles is the only way to go...I, personally, do not agree."
How else are you going to be able to determine the truth about amalgam? You do double-blind studies.. where neither the patients nor the evaluators know whether or not amalgams were placed or not? And then look at the effects on those that had amalgams, and those who did not?
I think Linda Z is on the right track.. I tend to think it's charlatans playing on peoples' fears for the most part, though it's possible some of these people are just misguided. You might want to click on the link HERE! but it seems you already have your mind made up.
But going back to what I have already posted.. two drops of mercury are placed with the other components and shaken into a mix. Usually, it doesn't even take the whole mix to fill a cavity. But assuming it does take the whole mix.. you still have only two tiny drops of mercury in the filling. And let's say some people have as many as 10 silver fillings. That's 20 drops max. Did you know that 20 drops of mercury even if consumed will do nothing to your health? That's right!
Are you familiar with the Mad Hatter from Alice Through The Looking Glass? Hatters from olden times were often "mad" because they used pure mercury to clean hats. And I'm talking pounds of the stuff on a weekly basis. That's how we came to know that mercury in high amounts had a deleterious effect on health. So no.. I'm not saying that mercury is innocuous but at the amounts used in silver "fillings" it's as close to innocuous as it can be and you want to know why?
Because when silver restorations are removed from the teeth.. 99% of the mercury is still intact. That means that only 1% of two drops of mercury is lost in vapor. That's 1000 times less than the mercury found in one can of tuna fish!
So you tell me if anecdotal evidence is worth the paper it's published on or the hysteria surrounding mercury "poisoning" in silver dental restorations. I've said it many times but people will believe anything.. no matter how outrageous.
It's really an oxymoron as it's not evidence of anything. I open the mailbox and my mail is in there, ergo opening the mailbox PRODUCES my mail, right? Why not? It happens EVERY DAY! Who can deny evidence like that?
Every infomercial, televangelist, psychic, or scam artist of any stripe depends heavily on anecdotal evidence. It was the stock-in-trade of every medicine man, carnival barker that ever lived.
Is that the kind of stuff you want to base your healthcare - or your LIFE - on? Be my guest, but I would certainly hope not.
Suppose you get an unsolicited letter from a stock broker who says "I predict the market will go up (or down) next month, invest with me."
You do nothing about it and the market goes the direction the letter predicted. The next month you get another letter from the same person with another prediction. The market does exactly what this person predicts. After 6 months of letters followed by the market doing what was predicted, you figure this is a person who really has a clue so you invest.
That's anecdotal evidence. If you'd done a scientific analysis of this person's preditions (if they would let you) you'd have seen that the first month they sent out 10,000 letters - half predicting an up market and half predicting a down one. Which ever way the market went they never mailed again to the half that got the "wrong" leter and only mailed the second month to the half that got the "right" letter. This time as well they split the group - half predicting a rise and half a fall. After 6 months 156 people would have gotten a letter 6 months in a row predicting the correct market direction.
Are you still as inclined to invest?
The point is that reading about people or even studies is not the same as being involved and doing or even just analysing the research. As a lay person there are just things you cannot assess without seeing the raw data and having the training to know what to do with it. Most of us don't have either - that's why we have different jobs.
In situations where professional expertise and training is required, a lay person just has to trust the professionals. Not blindly, of course, But with the understanding they know more than I even if I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Unfortunately the way taught us not to trust anybody except them. And look where it got us. Perhaps it's time for some to take another look at our opinion of professionals.
I'm sure that a double-blind study would be the most thorough way to study something. Sometimes, though, a double-blind study isn't possible.
The field of psychology recognizes the case study as a legitimate source of information. Case studies come in handy in situations where a scientific study can't be planned and conducted. For example, the topics of suicide and teenage drinking.
You can't get oone group to go out and kill themselves or drink alcohol if they're underage. Thus, these subjects are studied via the case study.
I have no problem with double-blind studies. But sometimes, like with the amalgam issue, someone's testimony is all we have.
I've heard of trisomy 21 studies that were double-blind studies and involved mice. I guess it would be hard to use animals now to study something such as amalgam, in case it would be harmful to animals. I don't know for sure.
As I've said before, the human body is pretty good at removing or neutralizing small amounts of toxic materials without harm. The mercury-containing preservative Thimerosal has been used to preserve vaccines and eye drops for almost 70 years. There are some individuals who are allergic to mercury compounds who do have mild reactions to thimerosal, but these are the exception rather than the rule.
If you wish to limit your exposure to mercury, that's a sensible thing to do. All I ask is that you don't overreact to the risks. There are nutbars who want to do away with using sodium nitrite in processed meat, thinking increased botulism death is a small price to pay to attack a small increase in cancer rates. Or the hoo-hah over NutraSweet because it uses methanol as a binder. The amount of methanol in aspartame is tiny and the liver is well-equipped to detoxify it.
I have a question. If a little Mercury is okay and a little methanoyl is okay and can be detoxed by the liver, and food dye is okay in moderation, preservatives can be dealt with along with pesticides in small amounts, etc.
How does the body deal with ALL of these small amounts of toxins on a daily basis? Maybe if the body just dealt with Mercury or exhaust fumes -- but it deals with sooooo much. How does the body deal with these combinations? All of it adds up.
Is it possible that my body is doing okay with all of this then BAM one more toxin just pushes it past its ability to detox?
One way to think about the answer to your question is to look at the life expectancy in places where they have a lot of medicine, hygene and yes preserved food. Compare that to places where the lifestyle is more "natural".
I think you'll find that in general the life expectancy is longer. And you'll also find more deaths that have their roots in "lifestyle" activities (too much food, fat, smoking, alcohol, too little exercise). In spite of this the life expectancy is longer. Does that answer your question?
Dot: I think it's difficult to say what's causing your problems. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. It may very well be some sort of adverse reaction to an environmental toxin, but if the mercury leached out of your fillings that fast, the amalgam would weaken and fall out by its own.
You know, there is another possibility. Stomach ulcer repair surgery used to be the #1 performed procedure in the US, until the true culprit was discovered. A bacterium, Helicobacter pylori, was discovered quite by accident, since it's so difficult to culture outside of the body. Now, ulcers can be treated with a course of cheap antibiotics, a little Pepto-Bismol (works wonders against H. pylori), and a few months on acid reducing drugs like Prilosec. Kill the bacteria, and the stomach heals itself rather quickly.
Who knows what other little buggers are swimming around inside us that we just haven't found yet? Heck, you might even have a case of worms, for that matter.
Take two happy pills and call me in the morning. That'll be $120. Cash.
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Kay1952
Ok,
I have heard of people with CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Deficiency Syndrome) who had their mercury fillings removed and felt much better.
I have heard of people who didn't and were in a full remission of symptoms.
There are so many causes of CFIDS that it is oft impossible to determine the 'exact' cause.
I believe my illness was triggered by several incidents ocurring at the same time. It took nearly two years before the symptoms became alarming instead of just irritating.
For every individual there may be one trigger or many.
Me? I have exactly 17 teeth in my mouth and none of them have any mercury fillings.
Kay1952
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Dot Matrix
For you I wish it was a simple as your fillings, sorry you have had to deal with that illness.
I was hoping you would find a new avenue to look down.
I get migraines and am looking for a reason. I hope it is fillings so I can stop the violent throbbing pain, vomiting, spinning, audible and visual impact and my inability to function.
Dot Matrix
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Kay1952
Thanks for the thoughts and care! I appreciate it immensely.
CFIDS and FMS are a pain, irritating, annoying, rotten, terrible at times, but...
What I have learned wasn't all bad.
I learned to walk with God by myself. It was just God and I for a long time.
Now I have a wonderful husband; we have been friends for 12 years, together as a couple for 11, and legally married for 10 next month.
I have learned to trust Tim as I do God and myself, and so being sick hasn't been all negative.
Thanks for the information, tho. When I was just learning about CFIDS there were so many directions to go, it was hard to make sense of some of the information.
I got involved with the WI CFIDS assoc and got answers and directions.
I have had migraines since I was 9, which have decreased as I have gotten older. There are many medications that help that aren't narcotics. Imitrex is one of them, and when it works it is like a miracle of biblical magnitude. Unfortunately for me, it stopped working, fortunately now that I am in mentalpause (menopause)the migraines come less and less. There is a hormonal component to migraines. Look into that with your doctor, ok?
Muchly love,
Kay
Kay1952
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Sudo
Dot,
You might want to click HERE! to read what the American Dental Association has to say about it. I don't think it'll change your mind but silver fillings are safe. Two tiny drops of mercury are added to the mix of silver, zinc and assorted other innocous ingredients to make a silver filling. Heck, even if you swallowed two drops of mercury nothing would happen to you but no.. it's mixed and then placed into a cavity that stays for years and years. How much damage could two drops of mercury do over a course of 20-30 years or more?
If you doubt the motives of the American Dental Association in issuing the statement I provided you the link to... just think about what the motives could possibly be. We dentists have advocated the use of fluoride in drinking water since the early 1950's and have been fought at every turn. Folks said it was a Communist plot and even today the lunatic fringe says fluoride will destroy minds and free will. Click HERE! to see what I'm talking about.
But what was dentists' motives? It was to prevent tooth decay and we knew it was 1) safe and 2) effective. That's why we advocated it. Now think about it, Dot. It would have been in the best interest of dentists to ignore fluoride as it "cut into" our business. We had less cavities to fill.. fewer root canals and crowns to perform. But no.. we did what was in the public best interest... safely reduce their dental disease.
Same thing with dental amalgam. We make lots more money restoring decayed teeth with white fillings. It would be easy to jump on the band wagon and decry the use of mercury fillings. We'd all make much more money. But we dentists have a track record of doing what's in the public's best interest and lots of people can't afford our cosmetic dentistry. Silver amalgam is an alternative that is both safe.. and affordable and that's why it's offered.
To be sure, lots or folks don't want ugly metal fillings in their mouths and I rarely place them myself but you have to be careful of the disinformation on the web.. sort through the reliable sources (like the American Dental Association) and come to your own conclusions.
[This message was edited by Sudo on July 24, 2002 at 11:07.]
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Dot Matrix
Sudo:
Thanks, lots to consider!
Kay:
I get all four of the migrains which include cluster, on one side, and whatever else the neurologist said. Imitrex wasn't great for me, but Zomig was/is.
I still take about 5 asprin when I feel them coming on and it can help if it is the first stage. I have had very serious problems with these darn things. I hated to ever tell anyone cause TWI told me they were spiritual.
Therefore, I used to hide the fact that I was ill. (Not very well, mind you)
Dot Matrix
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Galen
Sudo -
"We dentists have advocated the use of fluoride in drinking water since the early 1950's and have been fought at every turn. Folks said it was a Communist plot and even today the lunatic fringe says fluoride will destroy minds and free will."
I do not mean any insult to you, nor your profession.
In 1983, my supervisor (ETC SS John T. Burg) had to have a series of operations on his jaw. As I understood it, he grew up in Phillidelphia with flouridated water. Supposedly the water's flourine had dissolved his mandible. When I knew him, they had to slice open his jaw and re-pack it full of ground bone, to fill-in for the bone that had leached away.
His multiple operations took a long time, and appeared to be fairly painfull. He seemed certain that it had been caused by the flourine, and the government did the operations on the assumption that flourine was at fault.
Was that in error?
galen
ET1 SS
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Sudo
Galen,
Re:"..he grew up in Phillidelphia with flouridated water. Supposedly the water's flourine had dissolved his mandible."
I don't think so. Here's two links for you HERE! and HERE! They are pretty much the history of how we came to fluoridate the water supplies and I think they will answer most questions about fluoride.
You see.. fluoride is naturally found in drinking waters around the world... it's a natural ingredient. We're just trying to add it in areas where it's not found at all.
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Zshot
Sudo,
I looked at the sites you provided. Thank you.
One thing I did not see is a cost benefit ratio analyses.
For example:
1. The start up costs to add fluoride to the water.
2. The annual cost of adding fluoride to the dater.
3. What percentage of the water would actually be used for drinking as opposed to cleaning, watering lawns etc?
And, why can?t bottled waters company?s have a with and a with out product thereby giving the consuming public a choice? This choice would not increase state and local taxes.
(A small disclaimer? I am a budget analyst)
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Sudo
Zshot,
Re:"One thing I did not see is a cost benefit ratio analyses."
Good question. I've got a few links fer 'ya. First click HERE! and HERE! to see the accepted scientific communities' reasoning.
BUT!!! to show that I'm being fair.. you might want to click HERE! to get the "alternative medicine" take on the issue of fluoridation. These guys want the "poison" taken out of the water and to tell you the turth.. it would mean a big boost to my income if they did just that.
I sometimes wonder why we dentists seem to beat our heads against the wall when it is cutting our throats financially. If you look at all the links closely, you'll see that fluoridation has not just significantly reduced tooth decay but massively. I remember my first position as a dentist after graduating dental school back in 1977. It was in Hardeman county Tennessee and the county seat was a little town called Bolivar which had a fluoridated water supply. I was the county public health dentist and saw the indigent children from the entire county.. all of which had no fluoride in the water. Only Bolivar had fluoridated water.
I could tell as soon as the kids opened their mouths where they lived. It was remarkable. The ones living in the county drinking non-fluoridated water were "eat up" with decay while those growing up in Bolivar were pretty much decay free.
I guess I should get on the band wagon and start demanding that the government stop "poisoning" us with fluoride but.. I can't stand having to stick little kids with big needles and then drilling on their teeth. Now, adults are another issue (G)! They come to the office.. open up.. and let me stick them all I want and them drill them but good!.. and after it's all over.. they go up front and pay me for doing it to them. Hee-hee!
But children? They just don't understand. They look up at you with those big sad eyes.. often with tears rolling down their little faces, sometimes imploring that they will "be good" if you just won't give them shots and the like. As if it's their fault they have dental decay... when all it would have taken was a little fluoride to have made the whole procedure unnecessary. And now.. they're afraid of the dentist for the rest of their lives when it could have easily been avoided.
No.. I don't want that kind of business! And neither do most of us dentists! So I have high disdain for those loonies who want to yank the fluoride out of the drinking waters. We know its safe. We know it works.. BIG TIME! So sue me!
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Zshot
Sudo,
Thank you for providing those links.
On the issue of health I don't have a problem with floride in drinking water.
I am looking at this issue from the dollar end of it.
Also, Since you mentioned adult dental patients...
I think it would be a good idea if better dental insurance was more readily available.
I think (Sudo, you would know better than me), two of the main reasons why adults don't see a dentist on a regular basis is:
1. Fear (due to painfull experiences)
2. Money
I think I could get better and cheaper dental care if I were on welfare
Thanks
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Steve!
Every time I see the title of this thread I think of those 2 Okie promises -
1. The check is in my mouth
and
2. I won't ____ in your mail.
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Zixar
I'm sure Sudo can explain this much better than I, but the benefits of dental health cannot be underestimated. I've been fortunate with my teeth, save for 4 fillings and a crown. Oh, and losing the wisdom teeth, too.
So this story is actually about our cat, Sunny. She rules the roost at our house, even though she was the smallest, physically. Sunny was losing weight and had problems with almost daily vomiting, which the vet could find no good cause for. No food allergies, no GI blockage. It was just put down as a finicky stomach, but Sunny was getting down to skin and bones.
Turns out it was her TEETH that were the problem. She had so much tartar build up that it was causing great pain to her gums whenever she chewed anything. So, she was swallowing her food whole and naturally vomiting it back up. The vet anesthetized her and gave her a thorough dental cleaning, and voila'--problem cured. Sunny went from a sickly 9 lbs. to a healthy 12 lbs. in 3 months.
Anybody who has ever cracked a tooth or otherwise had a dental nerve exposed knows how mind-shatteringly painful it can be. Sodium fluoride and dental amalgams have minimal risk for a huge quality-of-life boost. Our bodies have remarkable tolerance to seemingly-nasty environmental pollutants. Last year, the doctors shot poisonous, radioactive thallium-201 into my veins to do a heart test, but I suffered no ill effects. Every atom of thallium-201 decayed within a few days...into an atom of mercury-201.
God bless!
Zix
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Dot Matrix
Glad your cat bounced back!
And all the talk of risk being at a minimum maybe VERY true. But there have been people who have had strange sid effects from the fillings.
They had the fillings removed and became healthy again. Hard to argue with that.
I have such BAD headaches I am into a quest. A person I know has seizures with no reason. I just can not believe there is no reason.
Yes, we have been to countless Doctors.
I stumbled across this info on fillings and wonder if it may be the cause.... I am ready to check into everything.
Dot Matrix
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moreyt
Hi, Dot!
I had major health problems several years ago. The oppression and stress of trying to live up to the way's impossible standards didn't help either.
I found out about the toxicity of mercury and prayerfully decided to gradually have my fillings replaced. I felt definite improvements physically and mentally.
There's a book called "It's All in Your Head" by Hal Huggins. (I might not have the author's name right) I recommend it HIGHLY. He's a dentist from Colorado.
The established medical circles frown on evidence that is anecdotal (like mine). They think that only double-blind studies, conducted over and over again and published in journal articles is the only way to go.
I, personally, do not agree. Word of mouth and my heavenly Father's go-ahead are all that I need to make such decisions.
If you want to check out the book, you can probably find it at any large natural foods store that stocks books.
A friend of mine had bad headaches and got rid of them by rubbing progesterone cream on her skin once a day for 25 days each month. (She doesn't use it during her period). Headaches were linked to hormones somehow and the cream diminished them substantially. I use the same cream and it seems to make much more calm (less PMS-ish).
More anecdotal evidence, I know, but maybe worth checking into also???
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Linda Z
I tend to agree with Sudo.
The cynical me thinks this whole movement was started by unscrupulous dentists who want to charge people for replacing all their fillings. Maybe not. Maybe the movers and shakers behind it are completely sincere, but it's a possibility I can't ignore, given the obvious economical advantage of promoting replacement fillings.
On the other hand, those who suffer from chronic pain certainly are justified in checking out possible solutions that are off the medical beaten path.
Why do some alternative therapies/approaches work? Some are genuinely beneficial. Sometimes they're neither beneficial nor harmful, but people using them experience a placebo effect (they expect relief and they get it, just as some people taking "sugar pills" in a clinical trial get the same results as those getting the real pills). I think it's also possible, though, since each of us is different and has different sensitivities to different things, that some people get genuine symptom relief from using these things while some don't.
Dot, I say if you can afford to have all your fillings replaced and you want to go for it, then go for it. What can it hurt? (Well, it might hurt ...I mean what damage can it do?
Personally, I've already put a couple dentists' kids through college, and the thought of spending hours in the chair having all my fillings replaced is right up there with hitting my finger with a hammer.
Linda Z
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Sudo
Moreyt,
Re:"The established medical circles frown on evidence that is anecdotal (like mine). They think that only double-blind studies, conducted over and over again and published in journal articles is the only way to go...I, personally, do not agree."
How else are you going to be able to determine the truth about amalgam? You do double-blind studies.. where neither the patients nor the evaluators know whether or not amalgams were placed or not? And then look at the effects on those that had amalgams, and those who did not?
I think Linda Z is on the right track.. I tend to think it's charlatans playing on peoples' fears for the most part, though it's possible some of these people are just misguided. You might want to click on the link HERE! but it seems you already have your mind made up.
But going back to what I have already posted.. two drops of mercury are placed with the other components and shaken into a mix. Usually, it doesn't even take the whole mix to fill a cavity. But assuming it does take the whole mix.. you still have only two tiny drops of mercury in the filling. And let's say some people have as many as 10 silver fillings. That's 20 drops max. Did you know that 20 drops of mercury even if consumed will do nothing to your health? That's right!
Are you familiar with the Mad Hatter from Alice Through The Looking Glass? Hatters from olden times were often "mad" because they used pure mercury to clean hats. And I'm talking pounds of the stuff on a weekly basis. That's how we came to know that mercury in high amounts had a deleterious effect on health. So no.. I'm not saying that mercury is innocuous but at the amounts used in silver "fillings" it's as close to innocuous as it can be and you want to know why?
Because when silver restorations are removed from the teeth.. 99% of the mercury is still intact. That means that only 1% of two drops of mercury is lost in vapor. That's 1000 times less than the mercury found in one can of tuna fish!
So you tell me if anecdotal evidence is worth the paper it's published on or the hysteria surrounding mercury "poisoning" in silver dental restorations. I've said it many times but people will believe anything.. no matter how outrageous.
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George Aar
I'd like to comment re: anecdotal evidence.
It's really an oxymoron as it's not evidence of anything. I open the mailbox and my mail is in there, ergo opening the mailbox PRODUCES my mail, right? Why not? It happens EVERY DAY! Who can deny evidence like that?
Every infomercial, televangelist, psychic, or scam artist of any stripe depends heavily on anecdotal evidence. It was the stock-in-trade of every medicine man, carnival barker that ever lived.
Is that the kind of stuff you want to base your healthcare - or your LIFE - on? Be my guest, but I would certainly hope not.
geo.
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Dot Matrix
Thanks MoreyT
I am thankful for medicine and Doctors and old fashion ways of doing things --
But i am also thankful for alternative medicine
If having your fillings replaced helped then that is hard to deny.
Sudo, George, Linda -- Thanks for your take on things as well. I do not want to spend a lot of money chasing rainbows.
Dot Matrix
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My3Cents
- A parable for more normal economic times -
Suppose you get an unsolicited letter from a stock broker who says "I predict the market will go up (or down) next month, invest with me."
You do nothing about it and the market goes the direction the letter predicted. The next month you get another letter from the same person with another prediction. The market does exactly what this person predicts. After 6 months of letters followed by the market doing what was predicted, you figure this is a person who really has a clue so you invest.
That's anecdotal evidence. If you'd done a scientific analysis of this person's preditions (if they would let you) you'd have seen that the first month they sent out 10,000 letters - half predicting an up market and half predicting a down one. Which ever way the market went they never mailed again to the half that got the "wrong" leter and only mailed the second month to the half that got the "right" letter. This time as well they split the group - half predicting a rise and half a fall. After 6 months 156 people would have gotten a letter 6 months in a row predicting the correct market direction.
Are you still as inclined to invest?
The point is that reading about people or even studies is not the same as being involved and doing or even just analysing the research. As a lay person there are just things you cannot assess without seeing the raw data and having the training to know what to do with it. Most of us don't have either - that's why we have different jobs.
In situations where professional expertise and training is required, a lay person just has to trust the professionals. Not blindly, of course, But with the understanding they know more than I even if I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Unfortunately the way taught us not to trust anybody except them. And look where it got us. Perhaps it's time for some to take another look at our opinion of professionals.
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moreyt
I'm sure that a double-blind study would be the most thorough way to study something. Sometimes, though, a double-blind study isn't possible.
The field of psychology recognizes the case study as a legitimate source of information. Case studies come in handy in situations where a scientific study can't be planned and conducted. For example, the topics of suicide and teenage drinking.
You can't get oone group to go out and kill themselves or drink alcohol if they're underage. Thus, these subjects are studied via the case study.
I have no problem with double-blind studies. But sometimes, like with the amalgam issue, someone's testimony is all we have.
I've heard of trisomy 21 studies that were double-blind studies and involved mice. I guess it would be hard to use animals now to study something such as amalgam, in case it would be harmful to animals. I don't know for sure.
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Zixar
As I've said before, the human body is pretty good at removing or neutralizing small amounts of toxic materials without harm. The mercury-containing preservative Thimerosal has been used to preserve vaccines and eye drops for almost 70 years. There are some individuals who are allergic to mercury compounds who do have mild reactions to thimerosal, but these are the exception rather than the rule.
If you wish to limit your exposure to mercury, that's a sensible thing to do. All I ask is that you don't overreact to the risks. There are nutbars who want to do away with using sodium nitrite in processed meat, thinking increased botulism death is a small price to pay to attack a small increase in cancer rates. Or the hoo-hah over NutraSweet because it uses methanol as a binder. The amount of methanol in aspartame is tiny and the liver is well-equipped to detoxify it.
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Dot Matrix
Zixar-
I have a question. If a little Mercury is okay and a little methanoyl is okay and can be detoxed by the liver, and food dye is okay in moderation, preservatives can be dealt with along with pesticides in small amounts, etc.
How does the body deal with ALL of these small amounts of toxins on a daily basis? Maybe if the body just dealt with Mercury or exhaust fumes -- but it deals with sooooo much. How does the body deal with these combinations? All of it adds up.
Is it possible that my body is doing okay with all of this then BAM one more toxin just pushes it past its ability to detox?
What do you think?
Dot Matrix
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My3Cents
Dot,
One way to think about the answer to your question is to look at the life expectancy in places where they have a lot of medicine, hygene and yes preserved food. Compare that to places where the lifestyle is more "natural".
I think you'll find that in general the life expectancy is longer. And you'll also find more deaths that have their roots in "lifestyle" activities (too much food, fat, smoking, alcohol, too little exercise). In spite of this the life expectancy is longer. Does that answer your question?
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Zixar
Dot: I think it's difficult to say what's causing your problems. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. It may very well be some sort of adverse reaction to an environmental toxin, but if the mercury leached out of your fillings that fast, the amalgam would weaken and fall out by its own.
You know, there is another possibility. Stomach ulcer repair surgery used to be the #1 performed procedure in the US, until the true culprit was discovered. A bacterium, Helicobacter pylori, was discovered quite by accident, since it's so difficult to culture outside of the body. Now, ulcers can be treated with a course of cheap antibiotics, a little Pepto-Bismol (works wonders against H. pylori), and a few months on acid reducing drugs like Prilosec. Kill the bacteria, and the stomach heals itself rather quickly.
Who knows what other little buggers are swimming around inside us that we just haven't found yet? Heck, you might even have a case of worms, for that matter.
Take two happy pills and call me in the morning. That'll be $120. Cash.
God bless!
Zix
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