The odd thing was that it was consistently inconsistent. One leader would rip your head off for saying anything during his teaching. Then the next guy would ask obvious questions to the crowd and tear into you for sitting there in silent fear.
In hindsight, it's a great control technique. If you went to the Joseph Stalin school of diplomacy, that is.
okay well i gotta say thank you oak for re-posting this because i skimmed right over it before in the other thread (oh and thank you cherished child)
this may sound arrogant but no way do i mean it to be AT ALL
when i was "in," this kind of lashing out was reserved for the frikkin way corps ~ meaning now that you sold your soul (with your loving sponsors' money) you are able to handle this kind of sh!t. just ask a few here what happened at microphones OHMYGOD
so i see the cruelty became more common for wows, whoever
i gotta say though that i love this guy for ripping off his armband. i would love to have ripped off my nametag and said %@*!_(##!_ to the men in the golden chairs
but i thought i was privileged to get yelled at or watch others.... (not really, made me sick)
sooooooooooooooooooo
boy would i love to be able to go back in time and grab that microphone now. it would be so much fun to confront veepee publicly about his "personal" walk....
Good point about the yelling once being reserved for Way Corps. Yeah, it did turn into everybody getting yelled at in the mid 90's.
Seems like when I got "in" in the late 70's more was expected of Corps folks. In 1994 I remember or Branch Coordinator telling us that we were wrong for thinking that only the Way Corps had made a committment, we all had by showing up to his living room and listening to him teach.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
If I remember correctly, the guy at the microphone talked about love. His (abbreviated) topic definitely dealt with the lack of love he saw and we needed to get back to that.
BTW, I was in the front row at that meeting. Mr "I'm so anxious to go in the Corps." Well, we never did end up going in the corps. That meeting had a lot to do with it. If I wanted screaming, I would have joined the Army.
Unfortuately, it seems that whenever I think back to being residence in the corps, not about the laughs shared with friends, but "doing" the abnormal daily routine, most of what I remember was reproof sessions, complete with strained eyeballs and bursting jugulars. Particularily during and after lunch (lovingly referred to as dinner).
Ex, I too wish we could go through that now. I think I'd rip more than an arm band off. What a bunch of F-heads.
Is it any wonder Way "membership" is so lean?? Who in their right mind would consider it Godly to be the subject of these insane rantings?
Yes indeed, LCM's choice use of words sure inspired me, sure set a godly example. The fact he was selected to "lead" the ministry is proof enough to me that the Selector, the Creature, Box 328 New Knoxville, OH 45871, was as spiritual as his own testicles.
Deck the halls with his balls this wonderful Holiday season ... CHMF.
Reminds me of the Corps weeks when Martindale & Wierwille floated the "athletes only" doctrine. It was presented by Mr. Fore Head and we were given, what?, a day to "work" it.
My skeptical buddies & I found problems in the proposition that *all military language in the NT was wrong.
So we have the "discussion". ForeHead is front & center. Also on stage are Wierwille & cummins. After some more from the stage we are invited to share our questions, agreements, problems. Yeah. Same deal. Fawning & butt-kissing; shameless, emabarrassing. Emboldened by one another, our posse lined up behing a mic. Each of us were angrily interrupted ...not by Mr. Rev Fore S. Head, but by Big Daddy MotorCoach Hisself. His comments, though a bit more articulated, amounted to "shut up dummy, we don't want to hear it".
I'll apologize for the sidetrack ahead of time...sorry.
But VP, LCM, and company knew that the whole athletes thing was a humongous stretch, but VP in particular felt that it was ok to make the leap, because he was after all "the great teacher." He was fishing for ammo to back up his "claim," that the military terms were "athletic." When he didn't get it, he didn't change his teaching, he went forward with it anyway. And then LCM took it to new heights....or depths, depending oh how you look at it. -->
Could it be that this "teaching" and the liberties taken with the scriptures set the stage for LCM's um, stranger teachings of the 90's? that aren't found anywhere in the bible?
*f * t**nk about *t we really s*oulda... we'd *ave been pa*d, more and better food, a cons*stant set of rules and regulat*ons, a recognzable c*a**n of command, etc etc. o** and d*d * ment*on t*at we'd *ave been pa*d?
All right, out with it, Evan--- it was "no perception Paul" and "pablum Pyle", ifn' I 'members correctly.... all this, in a Biblical research and teaching ministry, the likes of which have not been seen since the uno Ce-antch-errryyy!!!!!!!!
sheeesh --> --> --> :D-->
[This message was edited by alfakat on December 20, 2003 at 0:06.]
[This message was edited by alfakat on December 20, 2003 at 0:07.]
My wife and I were at that TC meeting and it was so uncomfortable just to be there. The young man was exhorting the crowd in the tent to "Keep it simple" and that set LCM off on his diatribe. I remember as the words were coming out of his mouth We were cringing in our chairs, not because the young man was wrong, but I guess only LCM and his ego could give direction at "HIS" meeting and we knew what was comming. It was L#$RY Pan^&*$%o who LCM sent to clean up his mess. I must admit at the time I thought it was funny, But it must have been humiliating for the guy and I'm sorry I felt that way. It would have been so easy to have handled it in a kind and loving manner but bullies will do what bullies do. One either earns another's respect through love or intimidates with fear. LCM always chose the latter.
I remember our WOW branch being screamed at by the roving WOW coordinator during my WOW year. That and other things I kept seeing from the "leadership" discouraged me from going in the Way Corps.
Good point Evan and ex10 about Wierwille squelching arguments as well.
From very early on TWI was an organization that did not tolerate dissent. Wierwille usually wasn't as vulgar about it (although I dare say some might dispute that), the incident at the ROA Twig Coordinators meeting was a natural outgrowth of an attitude that had been there for years if nor decades.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
As wannabe "leaders" frequently imitated Wierwille and later Martindale, many started saying "I'm running this meeting" whenever there was any dissent, or if the reproved one disagreed with the assessment of the almighty miniMOG.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
quote:It would have been so easy to have handled it in a kind and loving manner but bullies will do what bullies do.
Freeman,
That quopte just bugs me. It would have been easy to handle "it" in a loving manner? What was "it?" As far as I can tell, there was no "it" that needed to be handled. LCM was just being an obnoxious bully. There was no "it" that needed handling here.
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crystalclearblue
Interesting. I was at this meeting too and always had the impression the man about to share hadn't done a thing wrong. I was mortified for him, and it contributed to my fear of speaking up honestly.
Oakspear
I was at that meeting also. The pattern that it set, at least in my area, was that whoever was running a meeting could do or say whatever they wanted. Martindale said that whoever was running the meet
crystalclearblue
It would be interesting to see how many people could post about a meeting they were at where a leader got out of control and humiliated or verbally assaulted someone in front of everybody.
JustThinking
The odd thing was that it was consistently inconsistent. One leader would rip your head off for saying anything during his teaching. Then the next guy would ask obvious questions to the crowd and tear into you for sitting there in silent fear.
In hindsight, it's a great control technique. If you went to the Joseph Stalin school of diplomacy, that is.
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excathedra
okay well i gotta say thank you oak for re-posting this because i skimmed right over it before in the other thread (oh and thank you cherished child)
this may sound arrogant but no way do i mean it to be AT ALL
when i was "in," this kind of lashing out was reserved for the frikkin way corps ~ meaning now that you sold your soul (with your loving sponsors' money) you are able to handle this kind of sh!t. just ask a few here what happened at microphones OHMYGOD
so i see the cruelty became more common for wows, whoever
i gotta say though that i love this guy for ripping off his armband. i would love to have ripped off my nametag and said %@*!_(##!_ to the men in the golden chairs
but i thought i was privileged to get yelled at or watch others.... (not really, made me sick)
sooooooooooooooooooo
boy would i love to be able to go back in time and grab that microphone now. it would be so much fun to confront veepee publicly about his "personal" walk....
?
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Oakspear
Good point about the yelling once being reserved for Way Corps. Yeah, it did turn into everybody getting yelled at in the mid 90's.
Seems like when I got "in" in the late 70's more was expected of Corps folks. In 1994 I remember or Branch Coordinator telling us that we were wrong for thinking that only the Way Corps had made a committment, we all had by showing up to his living room and listening to him teach.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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JustThinking
If I remember correctly, the guy at the microphone talked about love. His (abbreviated) topic definitely dealt with the lack of love he saw and we needed to get back to that.
BTW, I was in the front row at that meeting. Mr "I'm so anxious to go in the Corps." Well, we never did end up going in the corps. That meeting had a lot to do with it. If I wanted screaming, I would have joined the Army.
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excathedra
what the phhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk was his problem ? LOVE you say ?
?
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JustThinking
Amazin' huh? He seemed pretty humble about it too. Not pushy in any way. Almost pleading. Poor guy. I really felt for him.
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excathedra
loving ? humble ? pleading ? what the heck was he doing in the way ?
;)--> i don't mean that really against nice people
i meant that against arrogant leaders
?
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excathedra
another thing. i have a problem with subtle arrogance. even if they don't have a big mouth.
but that's another story
;)-->
?
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JustThinking
Ex,
:-P
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BackForty
That was absolutely rediculous and totally uncalled for. What a way to attract and keep people.
-->
____
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WhiteDove
Dang I'm almost sorry I left so early I missed all the fun.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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tomtuttle
Unfortuately, it seems that whenever I think back to being residence in the corps, not about the laughs shared with friends, but "doing" the abnormal daily routine, most of what I remember was reproof sessions, complete with strained eyeballs and bursting jugulars. Particularily during and after lunch (lovingly referred to as dinner).
Ex, I too wish we could go through that now. I think I'd rip more than an arm band off. What a bunch of F-heads.
Is it any wonder Way "membership" is so lean?? Who in their right mind would consider it Godly to be the subject of these insane rantings?
Yes indeed, LCM's choice use of words sure inspired me, sure set a godly example. The fact he was selected to "lead" the ministry is proof enough to me that the Selector, the Creature, Box 328 New Knoxville, OH 45871, was as spiritual as his own testicles.
Deck the halls with his balls this wonderful Holiday season ... CHMF.
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TheEvan
Reminds me of the Corps weeks when Martindale & Wierwille floated the "athletes only" doctrine. It was presented by Mr. Fore Head and we were given, what?, a day to "work" it.
My skeptical buddies & I found problems in the proposition that *all military language in the NT was wrong.
So we have the "discussion". ForeHead is front & center. Also on stage are Wierwille & cummins. After some more from the stage we are invited to share our questions, agreements, problems. Yeah. Same deal. Fawning & butt-kissing; shameless, emabarrassing. Emboldened by one another, our posse lined up behing a mic. Each of us were angrily interrupted ...not by Mr. Rev Fore S. Head, but by Big Daddy MotorCoach Hisself. His comments, though a bit more articulated, amounted to "shut up dummy, we don't want to hear it".
For Fore Head this was learned behavior.
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ex10
Oh geeze,
I'll apologize for the sidetrack ahead of time...sorry.
But VP, LCM, and company knew that the whole athletes thing was a humongous stretch, but VP in particular felt that it was ok to make the leap, because he was after all "the great teacher." He was fishing for ammo to back up his "claim," that the military terms were "athletic." When he didn't get it, he didn't change his teaching, he went forward with it anyway. And then LCM took it to new heights....or depths, depending oh how you look at it.
-->
Could it be that this "teaching" and the liberties taken with the scriptures set the stage for LCM's um, stranger teachings of the 90's? that aren't found anywhere in the bible?
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Al Poole
Yea* JT
"* woulda jo*ned t*e army........"
*f * t**nk about *t we really s*oulda... we'd *ave been pa*d, more and better food, a cons*stant set of rules and regulat*ons, a recognzable c*a**n of command, etc etc. o** and d*d * ment*on t*at we'd *ave been pa*d?
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Al Poole
okay.... w*at's *appen*ng???
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alfakat
All right, out with it, Evan--- it was "no perception Paul" and "pablum Pyle", ifn' I 'members correctly.... all this, in a Biblical research and teaching ministry, the likes of which have not been seen since the uno Ce-antch-errryyy!!!!!!!!
sheeesh
--> 
--> 
--> 
:D--> 
[This message was edited by alfakat on December 20, 2003 at 0:06.]
[This message was edited by alfakat on December 20, 2003 at 0:07.]
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WhiteDove
Hmmmmm
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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IMAFREEMAN
Greetings all and happy holidays.
My wife and I were at that TC meeting and it was so uncomfortable just to be there. The young man was exhorting the crowd in the tent to "Keep it simple" and that set LCM off on his diatribe. I remember as the words were coming out of his mouth We were cringing in our chairs, not because the young man was wrong, but I guess only LCM and his ego could give direction at "HIS" meeting and we knew what was comming. It was L#$RY Pan^&*$%o who LCM sent to clean up his mess. I must admit at the time I thought it was funny, But it must have been humiliating for the guy and I'm sorry I felt that way. It would have been so easy to have handled it in a kind and loving manner but bullies will do what bullies do. One either earns another's respect through love or intimidates with fear. LCM always chose the latter.
Peace and Blessings
IMA
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Kevlar2000
I remember our WOW branch being screamed at by the roving WOW coordinator during my WOW year. That and other things I kept seeing from the "leadership" discouraged me from going in the Way Corps.
Thank God.
Kevlar - Not thick, just impenetrable.
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excathedra
cringing for other folks.... the way corps motto....
i remember evan's testimony
and i remember daily the in-residence house of horrors with my tuttles
also if i'm remember right, veepee was with lc initially with the jock chit
then what happened ? after he did the dance, veepee backstepped ??? i forget
?
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Oakspear
Good point Evan and ex10 about Wierwille squelching arguments as well.
From very early on TWI was an organization that did not tolerate dissent. Wierwille usually wasn't as vulgar about it (although I dare say some might dispute that), the incident at the ROA Twig Coordinators meeting was a natural outgrowth of an attitude that had been there for years if nor decades.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Oakspear
As wannabe "leaders" frequently imitated Wierwille and later Martindale, many started saying "I'm running this meeting" whenever there was any dissent, or if the reproved one disagreed with the assessment of the almighty miniMOG.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Raf
Freeman,
That quopte just bugs me. It would have been easy to handle "it" in a loving manner? What was "it?" As far as I can tell, there was no "it" that needed to be handled. LCM was just being an obnoxious bully. There was no "it" that needed handling here.
See what I'm getting at?
Anyway, that quote just nags me.
Welcome to the cafe.
Raf
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