I see how this might be difficult. I dropped out of college to go into the Corps, but finished my associate degree afterward. Still haven't gotten my BA and may never get it! I think my kids have kept me busier than TWI at this point in my life!
Oh well - if none of these apply, please post your particular situation. Thanks!
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
I went WOW instead of to college,and then for a couple of years running I was apprentice corpse.
A couple of years after the poop paper I started back at college and graduated as Valedictorian from a 4-year program that you complete in 3 years. And I've since gotten 2 Master's degrees.
I went to college while still in and still OK for college kids to have loans, but then dropped out agter two years for fear of having too much debt or any debt period.
After working my *** off at two ****e jobs 80hrs a week + having fellwship in my home I got out of the debt I aquired.
I eventually left TWI and went back to school the same year, with the help of my biological father. I got my BS in industrial design.
I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
While in, though, I was asked repeatedly to go on staff or Wayfer Desciple and "when are you going into the corpes". No pressure of course. --> Leaving the mnistry was the best thing I ever did. Going back to school was the second best thing.
Of course, :D--> both of those come after marrying the Lady I love and having our little man.
I did college courses while underwater, while doing twigs. I got out of the Navy and went to college, living on the Veitnam Era G.I. Bill. When my G. I. Bill ran out, I went back into the Navy and I still took more college courses while underwater. Pretty much 'in' TWI the whole time. I got a M.A. in Theology, B.S. in Computer Science, minoring in Horticulture.
A number of times at the annual 'limb' Meetings (Corpse Recruitment Drives) I have been approached by some corpse person that I did not know. They would usually tell me that God's plan in my life was to go Corpse, and they would usually ask my why I had been denying God's desire in my life. I usually responded:
"VPW taught us in PFAL that G-d must talk to me first if he wants to tell me something, then secondly G-d would talk to beleivers in my fellowship and my immediate leadership. VPW told us what to think of anyone else who heard 'little birdies' telling them otherwise. So why do you think that YOU would be the first to 'hear' such a thing from God."
Hope, I graduated college IN the Corps, believe it or not. Perhaps I'm the only one who did. I went College WOW my first year of school. Then I after my second year, I took a leave of absense and got married. My third year, we were apprentice Corps, so I transferred to the Independent Study program of the university in readiness for my in-res year. While at Rome City, I chose a couple of more academic-looking courses, sent the paperwork back to my advisor at college, who then found a professor to verify them, and I got college credit for them. I completed my degree just before Corps graduation, and had my diploma mailed to me.
Credit the looseness of the early 70's for letting me get away with THAT one! I got a BA from NYU, in Dance and Biblical Studies.
Shaz - that is amazing. I know a couple of people who went to college to finish their degree on their interim year - with VP's permission and blessing, but never heard of anyone getting their degree while in residence.
I also know of several staffers who took night classes somewhere near HQ's to get or finish their degrees - again, with the blessing of those in charge. Most of them ended up working in their field on staff.
My favorite college story isn't mine. My old friend Donna B. earned many credits towards her law degree on the LIRR commuter train between her area of Long Island and her job in NYC. I thought it was so cool that some college offered that as an option. What a great use of commuter time! Someone was thinking!
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
Hope, VP was a Walking Contradiction in many ways. He clearly articulated that to do anything at all, a person needed to go in the Way Corps and get the training, etc. to "really" learn how to stand, etc. He pushed some people to go in he wanted there, others he didn't. If you had something going for you like an education or money or an influential family all the better. If not, he often expressed an attitude like "well, you're not doing anything worthwhile anyway, you should", yada yada yada. He was always "on", always promoting and selling some aspect of the Way. He was a good example of what he wanted the Corps to be, able to go forth in areas of concern, interest and need and sell.
I think I've mentioned before we were thinking of going in to the Peace Corps before the Way came along. When everyone was taking one of the first PFAL classes out here, we were taking a Pottery class we'd signed up for together and we didn't want to miss the last few sessions so we waited for the next one. :D-->
I think the last class I took before dropping out and dropping in was a computer class, and figure this was 68, 69. Which is right where I picked up again a couple years after moving back out West. :P-->
I was thinking about all those ECU guys who were actually in college right before TWI. I know Bob M. got his degree and was a math teacher for about 5 minutes, but not sure if any of those other dudes finished - like Duke or Ian M. for example. VP grabbed a lot of the 2nd & 3rd right out of college - he needed "leaders" to get more leaders. Kinda like a pyramid scheme in a way - wasn't it?
I still haven't finished my bachelors, mostly because, even close to 50, I have no idea of what I want to be when I grow up.
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
Hope, yeah, you're right. The whole ECU men's "Way Home". Hadn't thought of that for awhile. That was some Prime Beef coming out of there. Randy A, great guy! The West coast had the Anti-Version I think. VP was bound and determined to get California past The Great Split, but it never really happened IMO.
I hear ya. What to do when we grow up? :D--> I've been working on a Communications degree, I think I have enough credits, classes and "life's experience" portfolio credits to be a Doctor of All Fluff 'n' Stuff. :P-->
Raising our kids and having families that aren't little Wayfer Units prepping for WOW, Corps, and a lifetime of assignments...now THAT'S a victory.
You made me think though, way back when, my first "job" of sorts when I was about 18 was working in a data processing installation on the graveyard shift, learning "bursting" of forms while I took computer classes, operator stuff, started Fortran. I cut my hair, and had the classic "day job" while I played nights. The hair grew back, I left after a couple years.
Lo 'n' behold in '92 I walked into a job, graveyard shift, in a data processing department with a company I'm still at and one of the first things I cross trained in was - bursting! Dammed if the machinery looked familiar. It was weird but gratifying in a way. I've moved around quite a bit since then in the company. Talk about "starting over" vibes. I just dug in. But you KNOW the thing I emphasize to my kids is...get your degree. Experiment, look around, try stuff, take a break if you want, but focus and work on the education now.
well i'm a space cowboy
bet your weren't ready for that
i'm a space cowboy
i'm sure you know where it's at, yeah yeah yeah
(steve miller)
[This message was edited by socks on December 28, 2003 at 1:25.]
I have a daughter who's a sophomore at ASU and she's starting to get the 'itch' that I had at her age...She's not all that excited about the prospectus of getting her degree,settling down,and working in her field the rest of her life...I had the same itch to get out of Dodge when I was her age...College was not much of an option for me,but I did have a great job with a leading edge technology firm my apprentice corps year..They were sending me to school and had high hopes for me...But I was 21,and not ready to settle into my career job just then,and technology bored me(and still does)...TWI was a good ticket out of Dodge,and tho I may have convinced myself that I would rather serve God,I probably was more interested in the adventure of going in the way corps than the humdrum of the work-a-day world in my hometown...
Like so many things, Wierwille and TWI talked out of both sides of their mouths regarding college. While I recall some folks being encouraged to finish their degrees, mostly anything "secular" was derided in comparison to the 'things of God", i.e. WOW, the Corps, etc. Didja notice that Wierwille's kids went to college?
In the 90's there was more of a push for people to go to college, I don't know what was behind it, but it did coincide with the Trustees' kids reaching college age.
My oldest son was pushed to take some classes at the local community college by our BC, supposedly to widen his "sphere of influence". He had no desire to go, but relented and signed up anyway.
He ended up taking his classes on-line.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
I did not finish college because I beleived VP when he gave us that crap about we don't need "secular" knowlege. Yea Right. I had no skills when I graduated from the Way Corps other than teaching the bible and cleaning windows.
It really hurt me in the long run. I was raised to go to college.
I got all my college education after the Way and during, and after the military....
I ended up going on scholarships and paying for a little out of pocket. My dad (the birth one, not my stepdad who raised me) offered to pay for me to go to school, and somehow got a loan for it that he then used to go buy a new car.
TWI never really factored in much in my college plans. I figured I would go WOW or WD later on, because I needed to get school out of the way first. Of course, I ended up getting a decent job during school and then later on I found an even better one, during which time I left TWI amidst all the pressure that was increased on me to quit my job and go work at Fazolli's and live in a one bedroom apartment with ten people as a Way Disciple or whatever nonsense they do.
I began college with the huge pressure of "Make sure you are near a fellowship" College is a huge experience for an 18 year old. Your mind is bombarded with all kinds of new ways of thinking, both in the classroom, and at the Greek parties. Anyway, "thinking" is at cross-purposes with twi. Every paper was about "saying things to get the grade in this crooked world, but we know the truth!" I was so consumed with God and twi and devil spirits. "College is a dangerous place, it will take you away from the Word!" Confusion central!!
That combined with "You'll get higher grades if you give more to the way" Supporting classes and going witnessing. Oh and sending in my weekly schedule of what I was doing every 15 minutes. I got completely derailed from my focus to go to school. I got convinced from one of lcm's rantings that school is a waste of time and I eventually dropped out and went Way-D. (I was at school w/ a full-ride, studying what I love to do)
Yup, my biggest regret in life is I didn't finish college. After I left TWI, I tried to put myself through it. But it was a catch-22. I made enough to support myself, but too much for loans. Now that I'm older, I'm certainly not going to put myself into thousands of dollars of debt to get one. Why? Most companies are going to want to hire the youngs kids fresh out of college for much less than they'd pay an older person.
What used to gall me was the hypocrisy. I remember VP wouldn't let JP or Sarah go into the corps until they finished college. I remember thinking, you b**t**d, you had thousand of kids give it up for the corps, but your own kids have to go to college. What's wrong with this picture?
Then, of course, LCM puts his kids through school. If just going corps was good enough for all us who went corps, why wasn't it good enough for his kids? What do they need college for? Why wasn't LCM being a great inspirational example and walking the talk and making sure his kids did too.
Yup, my biggest regret in life is I didn't finish college. After I left TWI, I tried to put myself through it. But it was a catch-22. I made enough to support myself, but too much for loans. Now that I'm older, I'm certainly not going to put myself into thousands of dollars of debt to get one. Why? Most companies are going to want to hire the youngs kids fresh out of college for much less than they'd pay an older person.
What used to gall me was the hypocrisy. I remember VP wouldn't let JP or Sarah go into the corps until they finished college. I remember thinking, you b**t**d, you had thousand of kids give it up for the corps, but your own kids have to go to college. What's wrong with this picture?
Then, of course, LCM puts his kids through school. If just going corps was good enough for all us who went corps, why wasn't it good enough for his kids? What do they need college for? Why wasn't LCM being a great inspirational example and walking the talk and making sure his kids did too.
We were such suckers.
I don't know your situation completely or your the desires of your heart but I can tell you I see a lot of older folks who've finished raising kids begin their college education. One lady I know is a grandma and she's decided to go to college and start a new career. She's really got a "plenty of life left to live" attitude. I say this because I'm still young and I thought my opportunities were shot. That lady really helped me put things in perspective.
I don't know much about being educated except that it qualifies you in the eyes of an employer to be employed by them. I had a hard time reconciling the believing doctrine (that we now know is a bunch of bunk) and the discouragement to getting an education. When I was young and in the proper window of time to get myself ready for "gainful employment" I was being told like all of us in the 80's that this was not a practical way of going about things. This was said in other words that I can't recall exactly but that translated into the fact that "with God all things are possible". Questions were posed back at me. Why would I ask such a thing?!? The more you know of God's Word the better off you'lll be. It was like being in a canoe and asking for oars and being told I didn't need them I'd be fine. God will take the canoe where you need to go. All your needs will be met. There were numerous ways that we were discouraged from pursuing an education. It was very puzzling. But I would miss fellowship!!!! I did an experimental attempt by going to night school. It was in connection with the employment that I had. I could not bear the guilt and pressure of not bieng at fellowship and fell behind. That certainly wasn't a success thought my tiny poor excuse for a mind.
I needed an education to be successful!?1? You don't need and education, believe that God will meet your needs?
Well here I sit 22 years later. By God's Grace and Mercy I became employed over five years ago as a sales person for a North American wide subsidiary of a larger corporation. I have been very successful by their standards. But as in all things T.W.I.. the whole crux of the matter was too many young people getting educations meant a loss of control on the direction that those minds would take. They knew who would be the looser. As time progressed and revealed the practices to be unrewarding and the only evidence of propserity came to those (for some reason) who had gotten their educations before getting involved, I realized what was going on. My gave a damn got busted. Yes Sunesis I saw that coming but didn't want to believe that such a "virtuos Bible truth seeking person" would deny us ours without our best interests in mind. I like the Wz/i@z$ard of (O$Z analogy. It is so appropriate. I've been through my personal hell since I saw behind the curtain so to speak. And I am so sorry for not getting my education.
That said, I am not suffering. I have a God who loves me and gave his Son for me. I have freedom to pursue the course needed to become qualified to become employed where I wish given time and resources. There are alot of crooks out there. I've been had but boy am I wiser. I can't say I feel this way all the time but winning is what this is all about.
My first step is to keep my mind focused on reading things other than a Bible. Formal education was not the only education from which we were discouraged. Secular knowledge was spouted from the pulpit. How did he know that? They were spiritual enough to read papers and magazines but that was an unwritten no-no; Worldly nowledge. I have to retrain my brain to stay focused to be able to read and make sense of what is written. Education puts you in the drivers seat for understanding how to live in this world and in the pursuit of that, you develop the sticktuitiveness to figure things out and make things happen. That would be a life other than what a controlling cult would have us to live. Your education was not in their best interests.
Well I guess my opening sentence wasn't representative of what I do know of what an education is about. But I'll leave it there. It was a start.
Bolshevik, I'm going to be one of those people. I was raised in the "you can do anything you put your mind to" kind of way. But lofty goals were given replacements of being the best Window cleaner or House cleaner you could be. I thought I was missing something. It has been said before BS baffles brains.
When I was in AZ there were College WOWs. These were the best fellowships and fun to be at.
The corpse probably cost me about 25k a year now cause of what I didn't get in credentials.
25k times 30 years = 750,000 bucks and I believe this is a conservative estimate. This probably ....es me off more than any other thing about wayville.
So next time your kid wants to drop out of college ask them if they would "rather get a tattoo".
When I got involved with The Way, college was not really an option for me.
I was already on my own and had very little money.
I was trying to put together some kind of career in music and theatre.I had made a lot of solid connections. (My talents were only so-so but you never know where the next road may lead.) Sooo, I stopped pursuing my dream in favor of TWI.
As I was on my way out of TWI, I went to school on a loan and worked night jobs.(I was only a twiggy by this time)
I got my A.A.S. in a medical field and discovered I hated the work I had studied for. So, I went back for another associate and almost finished when the school pulled the plug on the program. This was a state school, too.( TWI is not the only organization that has misrepresented a program.)
Now, I work in a mechanically related field. It's not great but it pays the bills(If I keep them low enough) and I'm not that far away from retirement. I don't have regets about college per se, but I do reget not pursuing my initial dreams.
I guess a lot of people in this world who have never heard of TWI could recount similar events.
No matter who you are or what you've accomplished, you will always find yourself saying"What if?" from time to time.
Let's see, I was 16 and in 11th grade when I got in TWI in 1974. I gave up a full academic scholarship to college to go WOW when I graduated from high school. After going WOW I came back and went to college for 2 years before dropping out of college to go into the Corps. Got married in the WC weddings and then went back to school while hubby worked PT for TWI. Got a BA and MA then after leaving TWI (in 1987) got a Ph.D. (94) So glad that I didn't give up on that part of my life.
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Hope R.
I see how this might be difficult. I dropped out of college to go into the Corps, but finished my associate degree afterward. Still haven't gotten my BA and may never get it! I think my kids have kept me busier than TWI at this point in my life!
Oh well - if none of these apply, please post your particular situation. Thanks!
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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Steve!
I went WOW instead of to college,and then for a couple of years running I was apprentice corpse.
A couple of years after the poop paper I started back at college and graduated as Valedictorian from a 4-year program that you complete in 3 years. And I've since gotten 2 Master's degrees.
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lindyhopper
I went to college while still in and still OK for college kids to have loans, but then dropped out agter two years for fear of having too much debt or any debt period.
After working my *** off at two ****e jobs 80hrs a week + having fellwship in my home I got out of the debt I aquired.
I eventually left TWI and went back to school the same year, with the help of my biological father. I got my BS in industrial design.
I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
While in, though, I was asked repeatedly to go on staff or Wayfer Desciple and "when are you going into the corpes". No pressure of course.
--> Leaving the mnistry was the best thing I ever did. Going back to school was the second best thing.
Of course,
:D--> both of those come after marrying the Lady I love and having our little man.
It don't mean a thing, all you gotta do is swing.
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Galen
I did college courses while underwater, while doing twigs. I got out of the Navy and went to college, living on the Veitnam Era G.I. Bill. When my G. I. Bill ran out, I went back into the Navy and I still took more college courses while underwater. Pretty much 'in' TWI the whole time. I got a M.A. in Theology, B.S. in Computer Science, minoring in Horticulture.
A number of times at the annual 'limb' Meetings (Corpse Recruitment Drives) I have been approached by some corpse person that I did not know. They would usually tell me that God's plan in my life was to go Corpse, and they would usually ask my why I had been denying God's desire in my life. I usually responded:
"VPW taught us in PFAL that G-d must talk to me first if he wants to tell me something, then secondly G-d would talk to beleivers in my fellowship and my immediate leadership. VPW told us what to think of anyone else who heard 'little birdies' telling them otherwise. So why do you think that YOU would be the first to 'hear' such a thing from God."
No individual repeated that confrontation.
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shazdancer
Touché, Galen.
Hope, I graduated college IN the Corps, believe it or not. Perhaps I'm the only one who did. I went College WOW my first year of school. Then I after my second year, I took a leave of absense and got married. My third year, we were apprentice Corps, so I transferred to the Independent Study program of the university in readiness for my in-res year. While at Rome City, I chose a couple of more academic-looking courses, sent the paperwork back to my advisor at college, who then found a professor to verify them, and I got college credit for them. I completed my degree just before Corps graduation, and had my diploma mailed to me.
Credit the looseness of the early 70's for letting me get away with THAT one! I got a BA from NYU, in Dance and Biblical Studies.
Regards,
Shaz
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Hope R.
Shaz - that is amazing. I know a couple of people who went to college to finish their degree on their interim year - with VP's permission and blessing, but never heard of anyone getting their degree while in residence.
I also know of several staffers who took night classes somewhere near HQ's to get or finish their degrees - again, with the blessing of those in charge. Most of them ended up working in their field on staff.
My favorite college story isn't mine. My old friend Donna B. earned many credits towards her law degree on the LIRR commuter train between her area of Long Island and her job in NYC. I thought it was so cool that some college offered that as an option. What a great use of commuter time! Someone was thinking!
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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socks
Hope, VP was a Walking Contradiction in many ways. He clearly articulated that to do anything at all, a person needed to go in the Way Corps and get the training, etc. to "really" learn how to stand, etc. He pushed some people to go in he wanted there, others he didn't. If you had something going for you like an education or money or an influential family all the better. If not, he often expressed an attitude like "well, you're not doing anything worthwhile anyway, you should", yada yada yada. He was always "on", always promoting and selling some aspect of the Way. He was a good example of what he wanted the Corps to be, able to go forth in areas of concern, interest and need and sell.
I think I've mentioned before we were thinking of going in to the Peace Corps before the Way came along. When everyone was taking one of the first PFAL classes out here, we were taking a Pottery class we'd signed up for together and we didn't want to miss the last few sessions so we waited for the next one.
:D-->
I think the last class I took before dropping out and dropping in was a computer class, and figure this was 68, 69. Which is right where I picked up again a couple years after moving back out West.
:P-->
baby's calling me home,
she keeps on callin' me home....
(boz scaggs)
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Hope R.
Socksie -
I was thinking about all those ECU guys who were actually in college right before TWI. I know Bob M. got his degree and was a math teacher for about 5 minutes, but not sure if any of those other dudes finished - like Duke or Ian M. for example. VP grabbed a lot of the 2nd & 3rd right out of college - he needed "leaders" to get more leaders. Kinda like a pyramid scheme in a way - wasn't it?
I still haven't finished my bachelors, mostly because, even close to 50, I have no idea of what I want to be when I grow up.
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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socks
Hope, yeah, you're right. The whole ECU men's "Way Home". Hadn't thought of that for awhile. That was some Prime Beef coming out of there. Randy A, great guy! The West coast had the Anti-Version I think. VP was bound and determined to get California past The Great Split, but it never really happened IMO.
I hear ya. What to do when we grow up?
:D--> I've been working on a Communications degree, I think I have enough credits, classes and "life's experience" portfolio credits to be a Doctor of All Fluff 'n' Stuff. 
:P-->
Raising our kids and having families that aren't little Wayfer Units prepping for WOW, Corps, and a lifetime of assignments...now THAT'S a victory.
You made me think though, way back when, my first "job" of sorts when I was about 18 was working in a data processing installation on the graveyard shift, learning "bursting" of forms while I took computer classes, operator stuff, started Fortran. I cut my hair, and had the classic "day job" while I played nights. The hair grew back, I left after a couple years.
Lo 'n' behold in '92 I walked into a job, graveyard shift, in a data processing department with a company I'm still at and one of the first things I cross trained in was - bursting! Dammed if the machinery looked familiar. It was weird but gratifying in a way. I've moved around quite a bit since then in the company. Talk about "starting over" vibes. I just dug in. But you KNOW the thing I emphasize to my kids is...get your degree. Experiment, look around, try stuff, take a break if you want, but focus and work on the education now.
well i'm a space cowboy
bet your weren't ready for that
i'm a space cowboy
i'm sure you know where it's at, yeah yeah yeah
(steve miller)
[This message was edited by socks on December 28, 2003 at 1:25.]
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simonzelotes
I have a daughter who's a sophomore at ASU and she's starting to get the 'itch' that I had at her age...She's not all that excited about the prospectus of getting her degree,settling down,and working in her field the rest of her life...I had the same itch to get out of Dodge when I was her age...College was not much of an option for me,but I did have a great job with a leading edge technology firm my apprentice corps year..They were sending me to school and had high hopes for me...But I was 21,and not ready to settle into my career job just then,and technology bored me(and still does)...TWI was a good ticket out of Dodge,and tho I may have convinced myself that I would rather serve God,I probably was more interested in the adventure of going in the way corps than the humdrum of the work-a-day world in my hometown...
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Oakspear
Like so many things, Wierwille and TWI talked out of both sides of their mouths regarding college. While I recall some folks being encouraged to finish their degrees, mostly anything "secular" was derided in comparison to the 'things of God", i.e. WOW, the Corps, etc. Didja notice that Wierwille's kids went to college?
In the 90's there was more of a push for people to go to college, I don't know what was behind it, but it did coincide with the Trustees' kids reaching college age.
My oldest son was pushed to take some classes at the local community college by our BC, supposedly to widen his "sphere of influence". He had no desire to go, but relented and signed up anyway.
He ended up taking his classes on-line.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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valerie52
I did not finish college because I beleived VP when he gave us that crap about we don't need "secular" knowlege. Yea Right. I had no skills when I graduated from the Way Corps other than teaching the bible and cleaning windows.
It really hurt me in the long run. I was raised to go to college.
I got all my college education after the Way and during, and after the military....
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Mister P-Mosh
I ended up going on scholarships and paying for a little out of pocket. My dad (the birth one, not my stepdad who raised me) offered to pay for me to go to school, and somehow got a loan for it that he then used to go buy a new car.
TWI never really factored in much in my college plans. I figured I would go WOW or WD later on, because I needed to get school out of the way first. Of course, I ended up getting a decent job during school and then later on I found an even better one, during which time I left TWI amidst all the pressure that was increased on me to quit my job and go work at Fazolli's and live in a one bedroom apartment with ten people as a Way Disciple or whatever nonsense they do.
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Bolshevik
This college stuff rips me.
I began college with the huge pressure of "Make sure you are near a fellowship" College is a huge experience for an 18 year old. Your mind is bombarded with all kinds of new ways of thinking, both in the classroom, and at the Greek parties. Anyway, "thinking" is at cross-purposes with twi. Every paper was about "saying things to get the grade in this crooked world, but we know the truth!" I was so consumed with God and twi and devil spirits. "College is a dangerous place, it will take you away from the Word!" Confusion central!!
That combined with "You'll get higher grades if you give more to the way" Supporting classes and going witnessing. Oh and sending in my weekly schedule of what I was doing every 15 minutes. I got completely derailed from my focus to go to school. I got convinced from one of lcm's rantings that school is a waste of time and I eventually dropped out and went Way-D. (I was at school w/ a full-ride, studying what I love to do)
FU twi
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Dot Matrix
I lost out on finishing college due to TWI and the corps.
Shaz, If I had KNOWN that I would have asked to do that.
Geez- without the "degree" the good jobs have been a dream...
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Sunesis
Yup, my biggest regret in life is I didn't finish college. After I left TWI, I tried to put myself through it. But it was a catch-22. I made enough to support myself, but too much for loans. Now that I'm older, I'm certainly not going to put myself into thousands of dollars of debt to get one. Why? Most companies are going to want to hire the youngs kids fresh out of college for much less than they'd pay an older person.
What used to gall me was the hypocrisy. I remember VP wouldn't let JP or Sarah go into the corps until they finished college. I remember thinking, you b**t**d, you had thousand of kids give it up for the corps, but your own kids have to go to college. What's wrong with this picture?
Then, of course, LCM puts his kids through school. If just going corps was good enough for all us who went corps, why wasn't it good enough for his kids? What do they need college for? Why wasn't LCM being a great inspirational example and walking the talk and making sure his kids did too.
We were such suckers.
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Dot Matrix
Yeah, suckers
That pizzes me off they put their kids through college
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WordWolf
Gee,
lcm and vpw were "do as I say, not as I do" types,
aka, hypocrites.
Can you imagine?
The shock.....
In 20/20 hindsight, it's blindingly obvious.....
Scary how we missed it the first time....
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Bolshevik
I don't know your situation completely or your the desires of your heart but I can tell you I see a lot of older folks who've finished raising kids begin their college education. One lady I know is a grandma and she's decided to go to college and start a new career. She's really got a "plenty of life left to live" attitude. I say this because I'm still young and I thought my opportunities were shot. That lady really helped me put things in perspective.
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Its Busted
I don't know much about being educated except that it qualifies you in the eyes of an employer to be employed by them. I had a hard time reconciling the believing doctrine (that we now know is a bunch of bunk) and the discouragement to getting an education. When I was young and in the proper window of time to get myself ready for "gainful employment" I was being told like all of us in the 80's that this was not a practical way of going about things. This was said in other words that I can't recall exactly but that translated into the fact that "with God all things are possible". Questions were posed back at me. Why would I ask such a thing?!? The more you know of God's Word the better off you'lll be. It was like being in a canoe and asking for oars and being told I didn't need them I'd be fine. God will take the canoe where you need to go. All your needs will be met. There were numerous ways that we were discouraged from pursuing an education. It was very puzzling. But I would miss fellowship!!!! I did an experimental attempt by going to night school. It was in connection with the employment that I had. I could not bear the guilt and pressure of not bieng at fellowship and fell behind. That certainly wasn't a success thought my tiny poor excuse for a mind.
I needed an education to be successful!?1? You don't need and education, believe that God will meet your needs?
Well here I sit 22 years later. By God's Grace and Mercy I became employed over five years ago as a sales person for a North American wide subsidiary of a larger corporation. I have been very successful by their standards. But as in all things T.W.I.. the whole crux of the matter was too many young people getting educations meant a loss of control on the direction that those minds would take. They knew who would be the looser. As time progressed and revealed the practices to be unrewarding and the only evidence of propserity came to those (for some reason) who had gotten their educations before getting involved, I realized what was going on. My gave a damn got busted. Yes Sunesis I saw that coming but didn't want to believe that such a "virtuos Bible truth seeking person" would deny us ours without our best interests in mind. I like the Wz/i@z$ard of (O$Z analogy. It is so appropriate. I've been through my personal hell since I saw behind the curtain so to speak. And I am so sorry for not getting my education.
That said, I am not suffering. I have a God who loves me and gave his Son for me. I have freedom to pursue the course needed to become qualified to become employed where I wish given time and resources. There are alot of crooks out there. I've been had but boy am I wiser. I can't say I feel this way all the time but winning is what this is all about.
My first step is to keep my mind focused on reading things other than a Bible. Formal education was not the only education from which we were discouraged. Secular knowledge was spouted from the pulpit. How did he know that? They were spiritual enough to read papers and magazines but that was an unwritten no-no; Worldly nowledge. I have to retrain my brain to stay focused to be able to read and make sense of what is written. Education puts you in the drivers seat for understanding how to live in this world and in the pursuit of that, you develop the sticktuitiveness to figure things out and make things happen. That would be a life other than what a controlling cult would have us to live. Your education was not in their best interests.
Well I guess my opening sentence wasn't representative of what I do know of what an education is about. But I'll leave it there. It was a start.
Bolshevik, I'm going to be one of those people. I was raised in the "you can do anything you put your mind to" kind of way. But lofty goals were given replacements of being the best Window cleaner or House cleaner you could be. I thought I was missing something. It has been said before BS baffles brains.
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griffp
When I was in AZ there were College WOWs. These were the best fellowships and fun to be at.
The corpse probably cost me about 25k a year now cause of what I didn't get in credentials.
25k times 30 years = 750,000 bucks and I believe this is a conservative estimate. This probably ....es me off more than any other thing about wayville.
So next time your kid wants to drop out of college ask them if they would "rather get a tattoo".
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waysider
When I got involved with The Way, college was not really an option for me.
I was already on my own and had very little money.
I was trying to put together some kind of career in music and theatre.I had made a lot of solid connections. (My talents were only so-so but you never know where the next road may lead.) Sooo, I stopped pursuing my dream in favor of TWI.
As I was on my way out of TWI, I went to school on a loan and worked night jobs.(I was only a twiggy by this time)
I got my A.A.S. in a medical field and discovered I hated the work I had studied for. So, I went back for another associate and almost finished when the school pulled the plug on the program. This was a state school, too.( TWI is not the only organization that has misrepresented a program.)
Now, I work in a mechanically related field. It's not great but it pays the bills(If I keep them low enough) and I'm not that far away from retirement. I don't have regets about college per se, but I do reget not pursuing my initial dreams.
I guess a lot of people in this world who have never heard of TWI could recount similar events.
No matter who you are or what you've accomplished, you will always find yourself saying"What if?" from time to time.
That's human nature.
But, to address the initial question:
TWI was no substitute for college by a long shot.
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wrdsandwrks
Let's see, I was 16 and in 11th grade when I got in TWI in 1974. I gave up a full academic scholarship to college to go WOW when I graduated from high school. After going WOW I came back and went to college for 2 years before dropping out of college to go into the Corps. Got married in the WC weddings and then went back to school while hubby worked PT for TWI. Got a BA and MA then after leaving TWI (in 1987) got a Ph.D. (94) So glad that I didn't give up on that part of my life.
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washingtonweather
I left Ohio U in 77 to go WOW...
then went in the way bore.
Last may I finally finished my Bachelor's!!
I had started back in 1999 part time and really cranked it up after we left (with a year to get to know life again in between)
It was not easy, but I am glad I did it.
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