HELP! The PFAL Class was stolen

[WordWolf]

I feel a discussion of plagiarism of pfal is incomplete

without this thread.....

[Belle]

I agree! Thanks WordWolf. :)

[penworks]

Seems to me that this thread is relevant to the current one on plagarism, so thought I'd bring it out of the dust bin of 2005.

peace,

penworks

[Ham]

I wonder if it's relevant to yet another thread..

there are some who own illegal copies of it.. think it's a heritage.. and even think that it's practically a God-given right for the third generation to hear it..

maybe it's like twice dead. Stolen, stolen property..

[waysider]

Da capo----"from the beginning"

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=277

One thing that really struck me was that Wierwille must have been no stranger to the concept of using others' works.

You just can't become as skilled as he was at deliberate deception overnight.

He had to have been following a pattern of this type of activity for a long, long time.

By the time he got to the point in his life where he highjacked Leonard's class, he must have already reached a high level of mastery of his "skills".

Edited April 17, 2008 by waysider

[now I see]

Wierwille defender response:

The original work was not the individual teachings and doctrines. It was putting them all together so that it fit. Bullinger came close, but embraced the Trinity and rejected the manifestations.

Leonard got the manifestations right, but called them gifts and accepted the Trinity too.

The Jehovah's witnesses were right about the Trinity and death, but got a lot of other things wacky.

Wierwille was the only one to combine rejection of the Trinity, dispensationalism, denial of immediate life after death and the operation of the manifestations together under one doctrinal framework.

Nice summation here by Raf from the first page of this thread.  

Too bad vp couldn't have just stopped there and claimed that he put it together only and gave credit to his sources.  

 

[Mark Clarke]

Yeah, but the point is that Wierwille's apologists (all but Mike) don't care about the source of the individual teachings. The original work of Wierwille is putting it all together so that it fit. As long as they believe no one else combines grace, salvation by faith, denial of the trinity, denial of the pre-existence of Christ, manifestations not gifts, dispensationalism (with 7 administrations) and denial of immediate life after death, their minds are made up.<BR><BR>Pointing out the real origin of any one of those components isn't going to impress them, because it's not the components that impressed them in the first place. It's the collection.<BR><BR>Therefore, it is the ACCURACY of Wierwille's claims, not the origin of them, that must be discredited.<BR><BR>Discrediting the origin is just gravy. It's worthwhile if the person you're arguing with thinks Wierwille is some great researcher. We all know how I feel about plagiarism.<BR><BR>Think about how Smikeol responds to the plagiarism charge to understand where I'm coming from: God revealed it to Bullinger, who let his private interpretation get in the way. God revealed some of it to Leonard, Stiles, and these other men. They all let their PI get in the way. So when God revealed the same information to Wierwille, OF COURSE it looked like Wierwille was copying the other men. They were all copying God, the true author. The others just weren't as meek (HA!) as Wierwille. So when Wierwille writes it, it's pure Word of God. When the others write it, it's God's Word mixed with their own private interpretation.<BR><BR>Don't laugh. He really believes that.<BR><BR>What to do?<BR><BR>Challenge the origin, but recognize that's only a small part of the job. Challenging the accuracy is far more important.

We also need to challenge the accuracy of the sources from which VP stole. Just because B. G. Leonard's class or J. E. Stiles's book sounds good, we can't assume that the material was good but just mishandled by VPW. We have to "try every spirit." Leonard and Stiles and Bullinger may not have been as dishonest as Wierwille, but that doesn't guarantee they were right in what they taught. We have to test it against the Bible, and in many cases the material still comes up wanting.

[brideofjc]

Here is a promise given to BG Leonard --<BR>From Rev. Leonard's foreword to his book GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT: <BR><BR>"One day God spoke to me. "If thou wilt wait patiently before me, I will give thee the revelation concerning that which is written in my Word touching these things; the revelation my people need to bring them out of their chaos and confusion." <BR><BR>I believed God. For months I waited before His presence in solitude. During those wonderful days, He revealed the truth to me concerning the gifts of the Spirit. As He did, these things were proven by acting upon the knowledge thus received, and by examining the results in light of His Word."

Wow, that prophetic utterance hit my spirit as a truly ordained prophecy of the Lord.

[JeffSjo]

Dear Penworks,

Thanks for pulling this thread to the front.

Dear Wordwolf,

I see now that you weren't kidding about this topic having been discussed before.

Dear Waysider,

It seems clear to me that Dr. Wirewille had a clear pattern of using other people's works for me too. I'm still considering possibilities that he did it out of concern for "his kids" but if I go that way of thinking it won't be an easy road for sure. I'm really quite uncomfortable already considering what look to be his mistakes, and that's without the villanization.

Dear Brideofjc,

I don't see any reason to doubt this prophecy of B.G.Leonard's either. I think it's worth noting that this prophecy speaks of helping God's people, but the other one refers to more knowledge. I'm not sure where that observation may lead, I'm just throwing it out there.

Dear Ham,

I didn't have any intentions to plagiarize this thread with my newer one, no, really :)

[waysider]

BUMP!

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...l=jim%20mullins

Edited December 23, 2008 by waysider

[OperaBuff]

One thing that really struck me was that Wierwille must have been no stranger to the concept of using others' works.

You just can't become as skilled as he was at deliberate deception overnight.

He had to have been following a pattern of this type of activity for a long, long time.

By the time he got to the point in his life where he highjacked Leonard's class, he must have already reached a high level of mastery of his "skills".

Using other men's works as his own. Using other men's wives as his own. Does anyone else see a connection besides me?

Paging Doctor Freud, paging Doctor Freud. Doctor Freud, please call your office..