After I took the PFAL in 75, I began to inquire the references VP mentioned and noticed a few ripoffs, I mean, similarities between 'his' work and 'their' lifetime of work... but, but, but noooooo, that just could not be so. And I reasoned within my manipulated, sorry er uh I mean, renewed mind to ignore the obvious in '75 (out '95)... and now it is 2003...
EW Bullinger's works really impressed me in 75 >>>, but i kinda TWIsted the obvious to mean that it was VP whom EW should credit! (Didn't EW die before VP was born???)
The mother that killed the child was the "fire engine red curtains" (red flag), but I put that cookie back in the jar for 20 years worth involvement (forgive the puns... according to usage ya know).
I became "GodBlessYouAreTheBest!" KJV leather binders with thin gold leaf "India" pages praises raise my arm i don't believe in your jeZus ... oh "GAWD KEEDS" the thoughts do roil in...
The good prudence choice should have been... "I'm a bit of a bullsh!tter myself, but sometimes I like to sit down & listen to a real pro!" and then walk away. Oh such is the delight hindsight for futuresight today... I wish I had known then what I know now.
And such is now.
PFAL was, is, will forever be>>> a work of theft and other things...
[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on February 19, 2003 at 19:55.]
I got 119 more of these songs. Twig level only.That's, i know that's only 6 songs per year my 20 year involvement... Nahhh ... I wasn't committed besides the poems and the journals and the...
Learning is life on an exciting adventure... or something like that...
"God Bless You Are The Best"... okay... so where does that leave you...
I wonder why I dig Roller Coasters???
[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on February 19, 2003 at 21:56.]
You were hip to it before most of us! Yes Bullinger was in the 1800's. (Again after the first century - before Weirwille)
Those Research guys had to know all this stuff. When I think of VP yelling, "Walter, what ya got?" Asking for his research and all of us jotting it down in our margins, as if Walter just found it this morning! When it was all "lifted" from other men's work. So, the class "worked" because VP had little to do with it!
Then, the research they were involved in, was all tainted. Things like abortion being okay because of the first breath teaching....
And that whole Christian Family and Sex class -- ya know that was the first time I really thought what the phook are you talking about?
Then, in an Advanced class for Christian study we had porn movies of dogs doing women! That was my first porn movie I ever saw and the MOG was showing it! I can still hear VPW, "The dog has more sense then the women!"
All VPW's stuff was tainted with sex and self gratification.
No... a thousand times no i was not hip to it... I Ignored It. That's the tear jerker of it all. I also ignored the rumours Dr's womanizing, plagerisim, lying etc... all that stuff was out there years ago... many ignored it and still ignore it to this day... but some of us don't ignore it anymore...
quote:Again, I contend there were TWO ministries at work here. That is what has led us to ?stay too long? ?be confused as to the class and the man who taught it? ?our dedication? ?the problem in reconciling good class with a bad man? and ?some folks undying allegiance to VP and unwillingness to believe the horrible things he did ? how could he the class was so good!? Folks it was NOT his class!
Thanks for adding your insight to this thread. For me, this thread has really answered LOADS OF QUESTIONS that I pondered for years.
I even pulled out the book, Born Again To Serve, and read the section regarding BG Leonard..... how enlightening. Even Mrs. W. seems to highlight BG's teachings and knowledge as a turning point in vpw's understanding.
Even BG'S CLASS PICTURES...... vpw copied this style after each class.
BG LEONARD WAS THE TUPOS, THE STANDARD, THE CATALYST...... for vpw's work application!
Then, with Bullinger's research, and Kenyon, and Stiles, and Moseley, and Pillai...... vpw just filled in some pieces.
IMO this background check documents vpw's style, his ideas and his work.
Well, the sad thing to me is, that VP didn't even do a very good job of stealing stuff. he stole it, and then put his personal spin on it, and totally corrupted what he taught. It doesn't even much resemble the original, the way VP packaged it.
Don't all gang up on me at once-but it never bothered me that most of the class was taken from other souces. If my fuzzy memory serves, vp admits in 'the way-living in love'(haha), that the class isnt original. His personal'claim to fame' was in putting it all together, tho he did claim to be original in the holy spirit field(which is what the whole snowstorm was supposed to be about)
Otherwise, I am neither qualified or interested
in seperating out what was stolen or not. It was a class taught mostly to people who knew nothing about the bible, and amid all the odd concepts,did provide some fundamental basics for those who cared.
At least if I'm ever in a church where they use the Bible, and they tell you to turn to Hosea, I can get there faster than anyone.
That's not exactly worth 12 years of hell in the way, but I'm trying to look at the positive.
I also can't believe I sat through that sucker start to finish well over 40 times-the mental gymnastics I used to do keep awake!
If all you want to do is turn on the light, then that's fine! But for those that still attribute the discovery of electricity to the wrong person, this stuff is HUGE! :)-->
More and more I thought of the Way as a "paper ministry" great on paper (books, mags, classes and music) but so fluctuating in life. Harshness, impatience etc. Now I understand. It brings back when I was in Jr. High, tempted to copy a book report off the sleeve instead of reading the book. I did copy once or twice - it was hard work rearranging the words and paragraphs, and I was nervous handing it in. Did it a couple of times because I didn't have time to read the book.
Also cheated a couple of times in Jr. High on tests. TRUE CONFESSIONS first revealed HERE at GS!! VPW must have started copying and cheating a long time ago - HS/College/Masters - the nerve to plagarize! An ordained minister - in his 30's/40's!!Wow, that is something!!
I would like to have been a part of BG Leonards ministry. He sounded sweet! His writing style is better than VPW
Read through this thread again today. Someone mentioned the law of believing If my memory is correct that came from Dr. Norman Vincent Pele's work on positive thinking and Tremendous Jones also. He came to the way in the eary 70's to teach I may have that old teaching on reel would be worth a listen again in light of this thread. Also lest we forget Charles Welch and his contributions to PFAL. I was looking at a book we carry called Selected Writings one of a series of Bullingers works that was recently published by TRuth For Today because of a grant that was given them by a man who was so thrilled with their studies of Bullingers works. These books are a compulation from his newsletters and articles that were not in print. Of interest is one called the man of God a study on II Timothy 3:16 &17. I think I heard that somewhere before.(Session two P.F.A.L.) I talked to them at some length about these books and there will be 4 or 5 when done they thought.
It is possible for two people to come up with the same conclusions and not have anything to do with each other. Newton and Leibniz both independently came up with calculus, for example. And, if VPW had otherwise demonstrated integrity, he might even be allowed the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he came up with Four Crucified without ever reading Bullinger's work on it.
However, the plagiarism is pretty damning to any claims of VPW's integrity. If he had been honest, footnoted everything with proper credit, and claimed that he was merely the compiler of all this stuff and not the creator of it, we could cut him some slack in the matter. But this is not the case. The evidence is substantially against his claims of ownership or scholarship.
The sad thing is that his vain, arrogant, prideful abuse of others' works casts a shadow over everything he taught--even those places where he might have actually divided the Word correctly. That wasn't just a crime against all of us, it was a smear on God.
Gee f*cking thanks, "Doc".
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
I had started a thread some time ago asking if anyone had compiled a "one stop shop" on
VPW, TWI, etc. This thread may not be exhaustive but it is excellent in what it
presents. Kudos to all of you who contributed without over-the-top emotion. Not that you may not have it but it didn't stop a great deal of valuable factual information being presented here.
It sounds like a good book or thesis paper in the works. Or discovery material for
a class action lawsuit. ;-) Just kidding.
Is this another case of TWI acting completely within the letter of the law? From other threads, I understand BGL didn't copywrite his work, for example so VPW was free to make off with it.
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Hugs and kisses to you Mr. Bailey!
This way of perception has finally helped me to understand the dynamics of the trickery we were in -- what a gooey sticky net we were caught in!
Dot Matrix
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"He just compiled other people's work!"
Dot Matrix
Ya know Dot...
After I took the PFAL in 75, I began to inquire the references VP mentioned and noticed a few ripoffs, I mean, similarities between 'his' work and 'their' lifetime of work... but, but, but noooooo, that just could not be so. And I reasoned within my manipulated, sorry er uh I mean, renewed mind to ignore the obvious in '75 (out '95)... and now it is 2003...
EW Bullinger's works really impressed me in 75 >>>, but i kinda TWIsted the obvious to mean that it was VP whom EW should credit! (Didn't EW die before VP was born???)
The mother that killed the child was the "fire engine red curtains" (red flag), but I put that cookie back in the jar for 20 years worth involvement (forgive the puns... according to usage ya know).
I became "GodBlessYouAreTheBest!" KJV leather binders with thin gold leaf "India" pages praises raise my arm i don't believe in your jeZus ... oh "GAWD KEEDS" the thoughts do roil in...
The good prudence choice should have been... "I'm a bit of a bullsh!tter myself, but sometimes I like to sit down & listen to a real pro!" and then walk away. Oh such is the delight hindsight for futuresight today... I wish I had known then what I know now.
And such is now.
PFAL was, is, will forever be>>> a work of theft and other things...
[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on February 19, 2003 at 19:55.]
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
A Piece of Ode De Song
circa 1979
compliments PFAL 1975
Old man
You have nothing for us
You are empty
Renewed mind is the key to power
and release from our prisons.
Studying The Word
is showing ourselves approved before God
No condemnation
Five sonship rights
Standing faithful
In Christ our Lourd
Living The Word
Knowing what we stand for and serve
Ambassadors for God's Christ,
Speaking The Word is our mission...
One day Christ will return with us
and rule with an iron rod,
But now we stand
So masterfully weilding God's Sword >>>
I got 119 more of these songs. Twig level only.That's, i know that's only 6 songs per year my 20 year involvement... Nahhh ... I wasn't committed besides the poems and the journals and the...
Learning is life on an exciting adventure... or something like that...
"God Bless You Are The Best"... okay... so where does that leave you...
I wonder why I dig Roller Coasters???
[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on February 19, 2003 at 21:56.]
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Dot Matrix
WOW Songrts-
You were hip to it before most of us! Yes Bullinger was in the 1800's. (Again after the first century - before Weirwille)
Those Research guys had to know all this stuff. When I think of VP yelling, "Walter, what ya got?" Asking for his research and all of us jotting it down in our margins, as if Walter just found it this morning! When it was all "lifted" from other men's work. So, the class "worked" because VP had little to do with it!
Then, the research they were involved in, was all tainted. Things like abortion being okay because of the first breath teaching....
And that whole Christian Family and Sex class -- ya know that was the first time I really thought what the phook are you talking about?
Then, in an Advanced class for Christian study we had porn movies of dogs doing women! That was my first porn movie I ever saw and the MOG was showing it! I can still hear VPW, "The dog has more sense then the women!"
All VPW's stuff was tainted with sex and self gratification.
Wild huh?
Dot Matrix
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
WOW Songrts-
You were hip to it before most of us!
Dot Matrix
No... a thousand times no i was not hip to it... I Ignored It. That's the tear jerker of it all. I also ignored the rumours Dr's womanizing, plagerisim, lying etc... all that stuff was out there years ago... many ignored it and still ignore it to this day... but some of us don't ignore it anymore...
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Dot Matrix
That is a sad song, sung by most of us!
Dot Matrix
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FreshAir 99
Dot and others,
Thanks for adding your insight to this thread. For me, this thread has really answered LOADS OF QUESTIONS that I pondered for years.
I even pulled out the book, Born Again To Serve, and read the section regarding BG Leonard..... how enlightening. Even Mrs. W. seems to highlight BG's teachings and knowledge as a turning point in vpw's understanding.
Even BG'S CLASS PICTURES...... vpw copied this style after each class.
BG LEONARD WAS THE TUPOS, THE STANDARD, THE CATALYST...... for vpw's work application!
Then, with Bullinger's research, and Kenyon, and Stiles, and Moseley, and Pillai...... vpw just filled in some pieces.
IMO this background check documents vpw's style, his ideas and his work.
Thanks again.
Fresh
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ex10
Well, the sad thing to me is, that VP didn't even do a very good job of stealing stuff. he stole it, and then put his personal spin on it, and totally corrupted what he taught. It doesn't even much resemble the original, the way VP packaged it.
Too sad for words.
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WordWolf
Somebody just mentioned this, so I thought I'd
bring it back now, for those of you who missed
it the first time.
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Dot Matrix
Fresh
Cool! I read stuff like this here about 2 years ago and read on other x-way sites stuff like this and it did connect the dots for me!
Praying for our troops to return safely,
Dot Matrix
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hiway29
Don't all gang up on me at once-but it never bothered me that most of the class was taken from other souces. If my fuzzy memory serves, vp admits in 'the way-living in love'(haha), that the class isnt original. His personal'claim to fame' was in putting it all together, tho he did claim to be original in the holy spirit field(which is what the whole snowstorm was supposed to be about)
Otherwise, I am neither qualified or interested
in seperating out what was stolen or not. It was a class taught mostly to people who knew nothing about the bible, and amid all the odd concepts,did provide some fundamental basics for those who cared.
At least if I'm ever in a church where they use the Bible, and they tell you to turn to Hosea, I can get there faster than anyone.
That's not exactly worth 12 years of hell in the way, but I'm trying to look at the positive.
I also can't believe I sat through that sucker start to finish well over 40 times-the mental gymnastics I used to do keep awake!
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Dot Matrix
Hiway29
Pretty darn funny!
:D-->
Praying for our troops to return safely,
Dot Matrix
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Dot Matrix
P.S.
If all you want to do is turn on the light, then that's fine! But for those that still attribute the discovery of electricity to the wrong person, this stuff is HUGE!
:)-->
Praying for our troops to return safely,
Dot Matrix
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CircleGame
More and more I thought of the Way as a "paper ministry" great on paper (books, mags, classes and music) but so fluctuating in life. Harshness, impatience etc. Now I understand. It brings back when I was in Jr. High, tempted to copy a book report off the sleeve instead of reading the book. I did copy once or twice - it was hard work rearranging the words and paragraphs, and I was nervous handing it in. Did it a couple of times because I didn't have time to read the book.
Also cheated a couple of times in Jr. High on tests. TRUE CONFESSIONS first revealed HERE at GS!! VPW must have started copying and cheating a long time ago - HS/College/Masters - the nerve to plagarize! An ordained minister - in his 30's/40's!!Wow, that is something!!
I would like to have been a part of BG Leonards ministry. He sounded sweet! His writing style is better than VPW
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The Skeptical Texan
ping
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The Skeptical Texan
Weirwille stole MAGGIE MUGGINS, HENRY BOLOKO, AND JOHNNY JUMPUP?
That's not low; it's lame.
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WhiteDove
Read through this thread again today. Someone mentioned the law of believing If my memory is correct that came from Dr. Norman Vincent Pele's work on positive thinking and Tremendous Jones also. He came to the way in the eary 70's to teach I may have that old teaching on reel would be worth a listen again in light of this thread. Also lest we forget Charles Welch and his contributions to PFAL. I was looking at a book we carry called Selected Writings one of a series of Bullingers works that was recently published by TRuth For Today because of a grant that was given them by a man who was so thrilled with their studies of Bullingers works. These books are a compulation from his newsletters and articles that were not in print. Of interest is one called the man of God a study on II Timothy 3:16 &17. I think I heard that somewhere before.(Session two P.F.A.L.) I talked to them at some length about these books and there will be 4 or 5 when done they thought.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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Zixar
It is possible for two people to come up with the same conclusions and not have anything to do with each other. Newton and Leibniz both independently came up with calculus, for example. And, if VPW had otherwise demonstrated integrity, he might even be allowed the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he came up with Four Crucified without ever reading Bullinger's work on it.
However, the plagiarism is pretty damning to any claims of VPW's integrity. If he had been honest, footnoted everything with proper credit, and claimed that he was merely the compiler of all this stuff and not the creator of it, we could cut him some slack in the matter. But this is not the case. The evidence is substantially against his claims of ownership or scholarship.
The sad thing is that his vain, arrogant, prideful abuse of others' works casts a shadow over everything he taught--even those places where he might have actually divided the Word correctly. That wasn't just a crime against all of us, it was a smear on God.
Gee f*cking thanks, "Doc".
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Dot Matrix
I reread this again and it still blows my mind and answersome disturbing, nagging questions I carried for years! Thanks folks
Loved this Zix
Tex
Yes, that was horrible! It really helped me to understand just how tricked by VP we were.
Dot Matrix
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Dot Matrix
Zix
Private topic
Dot Matrix
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Zixar
Dot: I reposted the thread from the archive...
;)-->
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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WordWolf
Clicking back to the top....
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JustThinking
All,
I had started a thread some time ago asking if anyone had compiled a "one stop shop" on
VPW, TWI, etc. This thread may not be exhaustive but it is excellent in what it
presents. Kudos to all of you who contributed without over-the-top emotion. Not that you may not have it but it didn't stop a great deal of valuable factual information being presented here.
It sounds like a good book or thesis paper in the works. Or discovery material for
a class action lawsuit. ;-) Just kidding.
Is this another case of TWI acting completely within the letter of the law? From other threads, I understand BGL didn't copywrite his work, for example so VPW was free to make off with it.
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Dot Matrix
Yes, I agree I learned a lot on this one. Especially from The Evan.
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