I knew about Marsha in PA. I was on staff and she was corps there. I recall her being sweet and bright. Then, the next time I saw her she looked shell shocked. Then, there was a big hush-hush thing where the Limb leader met with her. Then, we were told at limb that SHE HAD DEVIL SPIRITS.
At this time Bon_ie had gone to HQS and returned to tell us Uncle Harry had Frenched her. I was furious and told the Limb leaders that this was WRONG! They tried to placate me by explaining Harry was just trying to make Bon_ie feel like a woman! I did not like that explanation and began to wonder ?could I be in something wrong here? Naw, PFAL was too wonderful and I da mn near witnessed to the whole town I lived in -- I was so excited about the word.
Next, I moved into a Way home. I was sexually attacked by a visiting region leader. I went to 4 Rev. Leader?s about it. They had a meeting. I thought they were going to help me and toss him out of TWI.
But they called an area meeting and told everyone I was possessed with deceiving spirits. I was devastated! I thought, If only I can talk to VPW he?ll straighten this crap out! Thinking this small cluster of people were corrupt - not ever thinking it was wide spread.
I went into the corps and VPW sent for me. I thought now is my chance! Well, I get into the motor coach and he is naked and asked me to do something lewd. I tell him "no" as I properly avert my eyes. I left the coach in shock and disbelief. If all these people covered for the Region leader and VPW is doing the same thing ----mmmmmm then VPW is the reason all the rest are doing it! I could die.
VPW did hit on me personally! I was flabbergasted! I did go to J____n L_____n about the conduct and M_____l F______t and Chri__toph S_____p and I was told to shut up. Then, I was taken from the cool jobs in the corps and placed on jobs where they could ?watch me?.
I kept thinking I could make a difference, turn things around, save the ministry! I went to see Mrs. VPW as I realized she had to KNOW and felt badly for her. I went into see her and told her ?I want you to know I never did anything with him.? (something to that effect.) She grabbed my hand and cried into a kleen-x for about 45 minutes ? no other words were spoken.
I pulled aside a corps buddy and told her about VPW and she said she knew he had gone after her. I said, ?What have we gotten into?? The confusion was PFAL did work for me but VPW was the antithesis of the class he taught. I did not know how to reconcile any of this stuff. I was young and confused. Up until then, I was on fire moving the word over the world. Now, I was so confused. I guess anguish would be an accurate word to describe my feelings.
Found out later from one of the big leader?s wives who has now divorced him, that all those I went to get help from had a meeting in the corps about me and they decided I could not be trusted.
I was dating two guys that "had promise" in the corps and both were led away from me. Both men were set up with women who were more willing to do the things that were going on in secret.
I went and confronted VPW myself and he told me ?what-so-ever things are pure.... Think on these things.?
I went back to my corps friend. She was working on a paper about the sex stuff being wrong. Someone ratted her out and made her stop working on it. We had a long talk trying to figure out how we could stop this "sex monster" from eating up our ministry! It was too big for us to turn things around.
So, I got out on the field and decided I was not going to stick around. That is when the mantle was passed to LCM. I wrote VPW ? one last time and told him that HE was the one tricked by deceiving spirits and the ministry would not survive if he did not straighten things out before he died. I never heard back from him.
Then, came the liberation of Ralph D. He never had gotten into the sex stuff! Even though VF and everyone (almost) else did. A woman went to him about VPW and he said come back with 2 or 3 witnesses and she returned with (I believe it was) 11. Ralph was blown away and asked VF if he knew. He said they all knew but did not tell Ralph because they knew he would not go for it.
I collected money and flew Ralph into California and we had meetings letting people know the truth about ?the secrets?. VPW was like everyone?s weird Uncle. People knew and did not know what to do.
Then, I stood up at a meeting and told what happened to me and a corps guy stood and called me a liar.
I thought, I had enough of this sh it and I stopped trying to fix things in TWI. I decided to fix me!
Only recently have I re-emerged when I heard of GS.
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 29, 2003 at 17:26.]
I really did not mean to include you in that intentionaly vague statement.
Heck, I have done many things in the past that I am not especially proud of but I certainly don't let that cloud my vision on just how positions of power have been used since the begining of time to take advantage of others...geez, I even understand how the fact that even though some may have been willing participants it will never excuse the behavior.
forgive and forget....heck maybe we forget that it could also mean that the sinner needs to "forget" his bad behavior (ie quit it!)
It is true, and I used to worry if anyone believed me. Some how GS has gotten me to the point that if I tell the truth and people do not believe me -- I do not care anymore.
It is a great blessing to be believed and I am glad you do - but to the doubters I don't care. It happened if you do not believe me -- it still happened and if you do believe me well, cool because it happened.
Why did not one innocent girl, tormented beyond belief,speak up like the Allens....?
Just asking.
"The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones."
Shakespeare
the Allens were getting money and had BIG counsel......i thought you knew that!? AND TWI was already in the dangter.....MOST knew that by then ;)--> ;)-->
never did hear from HER! ..hmm
love your sig! Make's you want to abstain from evil....don't it? VPer shoulda!
second time i've read a post of yours...and they were both ILL!
condescending ___________!
...oh excuse me, i mean "one that would forsake family for your "faith".....sounds like you are already!
watch your roots don't rot with too much of a "watered garden"
now let me continue reading ......I'm hoping that was your only post in this thread :gag:
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
i was ONLY in TWI #1 ....fond memories, yeah....but it sucked too! ....funny thing memory is.....quite selective.....ESPECIALLY if you are in denial!
"I wanna be like Mike"
men wishing they had the picks of women and/or envious of those that do
women wishing they had the picks of men and/or envious of those that do
some get it....some don't!
You wish all the good stuff was true...BUT!
VP was a schmuck! ......you got hoodwinked by a schmuck...ahahahaha.......so did I!
Allens got paid and ditched WayDale! ahahahaha
Norm's going to play some music and chill! ahahahaha
later peeps
on my WAY OUT! Oldiesman! My God is bigger than your TWI #1 God ....nanananana.....would've gotten me where i am, come hell or high water! Both as a matter of fact!
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
Respondez-vous Dot, eh Oldiesman? Wanna pooh-pooh her story?
If you accept it, you must accept that hose-monster Wierwille? and his Way Ministry® were both a flim-flam piece of refuse.
I'm mad!
Not only was I in a cult, but it was a piece of crap cult.
Dot, I'm sure you meant 'when the mantle was being passed to Craig' not Chris. Thank you for the additional detail I don't recall hearing. (Though I've heard enough of the same to make me want to ralph all over again, sorry Ralph).
There is one cardinal rule here at Greasespot that cannot and will not be overlooked and that is that victims of lcm (and others) are not to be ridiculed, and definitely NOT by name.
You don't know what you are talking about regarding the Allens. You don't know them and you don't know what the terms of the settlement with TWI were. You don't know and you will never know. You don't know if there was an exchange of any money......you don't know if either of them post here under "handles" or not, YOU DON'T KNOW CRAP about this whole situation.
Makes you wonder what those mini-MOGs were thinking when they covered up for Vic. Boy I sure want to run out and join a splinter group headed by a "leader" who only spoke up after Vic had kicked the bucket. Wierd cult.
you ARE like Radar on MASH! ....sharp as a tack...with a kind of "knowing"...
BTFW, Radar, i wasn't the first to mention the A**ens --> aren't their names plastered all over this place? AND I don't believe I ridiculed them at all....wasn't part of the settlement that they/he shut down their/his site?
Radar, since you 'may' know......do you know if they are still together? ....i'm curious ;)-->
that's the biggest problem with this site/cult
NO, not the "cardinal" rule thing
the fact that y'all HIDING somethin'!!... Norm Oliveau Jr. here...pleased to meet whoeverthe....youare!
internet anonymity, it's so comfy for ya...aint it?
see yuz....wouldn't wanna be yuz
post your real freakin names ...will ya?....no! aww....ashamed? embarrassed? scared?
oh, the things i WISH i didn't know!
"Crazy!? You wouldn't know crazy if Charles Manson was eating Fruit Loops on your front porch!" - Suicidal Tendencies
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 29, 2003 at 17:52.]
Radar is correct in saying that one of the unspoken "rules" we have always had at Waydale and GS is not to use any full names other than the trustees and their spouses. I always refer to the Axxxx's as "the first lawsuit". I don't want them being "googled" by anyone who could use this stuff against them.
FYI - P.A. did confront the trustees - right to their faces - before he and his wife got kicked off HQ's grounds. Then lies were told about them to the rest of the staff. The lawsuit came later.
Before you post stuff about other people - please get your facts straight. The reason you never heard from HER is because HER husband was gallant enough to protect her from all the comments and speculation regarding the law suit and her victimization. My admiration for him is boundless. I would only hope that you, or any other husband here at GS (including mine!), would have done the same.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
OCD, unless you have seen a copy of the twi/allen settlement....you don't have any idea what the settlement was. You don't know if the status of Waydale was EVEN DISCUSSED, and furthermore it is none of your business.
Hey by the way, I love that part of the state you live in....I used to live there myself, now I am on the Carolina Coast.....and it is BEAUTIFUL.
Radar is correct in saying that one of the unspoken "rules" we have always had at Waydale and GS is not to use any full names other than the trustees and their spouses. I always refer to the Axxxx's as "the first lawsuit". I don't want them being "googled" by anyone who could use this stuff against them.
FYI - P.A. _did_ confront the trustees - right to their faces - before he and his wife got kicked off HQ's grounds. Then lies were told about _them_ to the rest of the staff. The lawsuit came later.
Before you post stuff about other people - please get your facts straight. The reason you never heard from HER is because HER husband was gallant enough to _protect_ her from all the comments and speculation regarding the law suit and her victimization. My admiration for him is boundless. I would only hope that you, or any other husband here at GS (including mine!), would have done the same.
_ Hope R._ color>size>face>
_I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>_
I've always been known for "breaking rules" Hope.....screw YOUR rules!!!
and please, the Allens names are all over this place ....paul and....dangt can't even remember their names......still, anybody "in the know" know how much they got? and if they are still together? I already know their real names from ....um, somewhere -->
thanks.....got some tunes to tend to now, bye y'all!
sorry for derailing your thread EXC, i agree with you on that "missing the boat"
Cat Stevens - Longer Boats
"Longer boats are coming to win us, they're coming to win us, they're coming to win us...Longer boats are coming to win us, hold onto the shore, they'll be takin' the key from the door"
"I don't want no god on my lawn
Just a flower I can help along
'Cause the soul of no body knows
how a flower grows... Oh how a flower grows."
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 29, 2003 at 18:18.]
OCD, unless you have seen a copy of the twi/allen settlement....you don't have any idea what the settlement was. You don't know if the status of Waydale was EVEN DISCUSSED, and furthermore it is none of your business.
ROR
more Way type secrecy....that's all folks!
"closed corporation".....hmm, I want NO part of it, trust me!
have YOU seen a copy? .....you special person you....:gag:
BTW, it should be a public document if it went through the courts....i just don't care :P-->
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
Dot: Thank you. I don't see how anyone could dismiss accounts like yours now--you did everything by the book, and you got screwed. You didn't just make one try, you tried over and over until there was no one left to appeal to.
What the hell else could you do???
I think one thing that you mentioned that isn't hit on enough is that the upper leadership were actively involved in covering up for VPW. They not only KNEW, they ENABLED it to continue. If Ralph Dubofsky couldn't stop it, no one below him had a chance in hell of stopping it.
God bless you, Dot. In my eyes, you're a true heroine.
I think you are a riot, really. I understand where you are coming from. Unspoken rules are difficult NOT to break and yes the names have been everywhere. However, they are trying to get on with their lives and would probably appreciate it if their names were NOT everywhere anymore.
With respect to the settlement. 80% or more of civil cases get settled out of court. The judges push for settlement, so do the laywers. Its cheaper for everyone involved, including us tax payers.
It is extremely common for cases that are settled to have a "no disclosure" clause. This means neither party is allowed to discuss the terms of the settlement.
With respect to names. There are many reasons to not post your real name, here or anywhere else on the internet. I don't want every creep out there (and there are some) to know who I am. I pick and choose who I disclose my real name to and then only privately, via email.
Back on topic.
Excathedra, thank you for starting this thread. I know this is an extremely difficult subject for you to discuss. Dot, thank you as well, for sharing your story.
WG - Having been a victim of date rape, not by anyone in TWI, I can speak from my perspective.
It is very very common, especially for younger women, (who are basically still girls) to blame themselves when someone they know and trust rapes them. It took me almost 15 years to tell my story to someone I knew. It took me almost 15 years to understand that what happened to me that night was rape. It took me almost 15 years to realize it was not my fault.
I don't think I am particularly different from most women. Perhaps this helps you understand some, why it has taken so long for women to speak up regarding VPW. Once one woman was FINALLY able to speak out, it made it easier for others too as well. They knew they were not alone.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
funny, i did a google search, "all the words" "allens the way"
greasespotcafe.com has got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place......silly -->
i think greasespotcafe.com about ruined Doug McMullens chances at a fair shake....from what i 'hear' anyway .......fukk this antiquated crap.....go ahead, help the few that still need it or convert those that don't know they need it yet....i got shlitz to do!
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
"would appreciate it if their names were NOT everywhere anymore" ...ah, the price of "fame"
how's come there is open season on the BOT?
i am in no way a "sympathizer"
why can't everybody speak with truth and boldness?....i guess i grew up in a tough neighborhood, you had better stand up for yourself!!! AND, you wanted everybody to know your name......those days are gone, i suppose
"cheers, no tears" - Maze
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
Millions I had difficulty with. OCD is a laugh riot. I guess you've grown on me. I really do think you are funny and have a lot of heart. Sometimes I think your mouth is bigger than your brain. So what, sometimes my mouth is bigger than my brain to. Guess its part of being human.
Ginger,
Not sure what you mean by "smatter around". I thought we were simply discussing it. However, you are right, there is no book and everyone responds to everything in their own unique and different ways. Though, even in that there are generally similarities.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
If I said I knew the moon was made of Roquefort cheese, would you believe me? Of course not. If I said I knew someone who talked to an uncle of an astronaut who said it, would you believe me then?
No one has answered my question yet. And I did ask it in good faith, because this is something that has bothered me since the first time I read "Marsha's story". Why did he get away with it for so long?
Surely someone must have gone to the authorities, not in TWI, but real authorities?
Watered Garden, your answer is condescending and mean. I realize you can't hear yourself. I conclude this because you can't hear anyone else. "Your" question has been answered so often by so many it's become nearly tedious repetition, if not for the sincerity with which each has answered. I suspect something within you is trying to wear people down. That's what you do. That's how you do it. You just keep saying "I don't understand," and with it, you repeat your accusation, again and again.
We are not discussing something distant and absurd, like the moon made of cheese. How could you draw that analogy? Maybe you are as cold and distant as the moon, despite your protests otherwise. And maybe your pretense of concern is as false as the claim the moon is made of cheese. That's what I think.
I hear in your voice an ordinarily good person, but with something bitter, vindictive, antagonistic, vengeful, a seed of contempt stirring within you. You don't hear it. You wouldn't. You have contempt for this suggestion. But others have heard it in the past. That's where you've heard "shut up, shut up, shut up." Three times you quoted it. You must drive people to exasperation when you want to. And you do want to. That's your game, when you feel like playing it. It's not very pretty, is it?
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Dot Matrix
Okay,
I can validate Hope's story.
I knew about Marsha in PA. I was on staff and she was corps there. I recall her being sweet and bright. Then, the next time I saw her she looked shell shocked. Then, there was a big hush-hush thing where the Limb leader met with her. Then, we were told at limb that SHE HAD DEVIL SPIRITS.
At this time Bon_ie had gone to HQS and returned to tell us Uncle Harry had Frenched her. I was furious and told the Limb leaders that this was WRONG! They tried to placate me by explaining Harry was just trying to make Bon_ie feel like a woman! I did not like that explanation and began to wonder ?could I be in something wrong here? Naw, PFAL was too wonderful and I da mn near witnessed to the whole town I lived in -- I was so excited about the word.
Next, I moved into a Way home. I was sexually attacked by a visiting region leader. I went to 4 Rev. Leader?s about it. They had a meeting. I thought they were going to help me and toss him out of TWI.
But they called an area meeting and told everyone I was possessed with deceiving spirits. I was devastated! I thought, If only I can talk to VPW he?ll straighten this crap out! Thinking this small cluster of people were corrupt - not ever thinking it was wide spread.
I went into the corps and VPW sent for me. I thought now is my chance! Well, I get into the motor coach and he is naked and asked me to do something lewd. I tell him "no" as I properly avert my eyes. I left the coach in shock and disbelief. If all these people covered for the Region leader and VPW is doing the same thing ----mmmmmm then VPW is the reason all the rest are doing it! I could die.
VPW did hit on me personally! I was flabbergasted! I did go to J____n L_____n about the conduct and M_____l F______t and Chri__toph S_____p and I was told to shut up. Then, I was taken from the cool jobs in the corps and placed on jobs where they could ?watch me?.
I kept thinking I could make a difference, turn things around, save the ministry! I went to see Mrs. VPW as I realized she had to KNOW and felt badly for her. I went into see her and told her ?I want you to know I never did anything with him.? (something to that effect.) She grabbed my hand and cried into a kleen-x for about 45 minutes ? no other words were spoken.
I pulled aside a corps buddy and told her about VPW and she said she knew he had gone after her. I said, ?What have we gotten into?? The confusion was PFAL did work for me but VPW was the antithesis of the class he taught. I did not know how to reconcile any of this stuff. I was young and confused. Up until then, I was on fire moving the word over the world. Now, I was so confused. I guess anguish would be an accurate word to describe my feelings.
Found out later from one of the big leader?s wives who has now divorced him, that all those I went to get help from had a meeting in the corps about me and they decided I could not be trusted.
I was dating two guys that "had promise" in the corps and both were led away from me. Both men were set up with women who were more willing to do the things that were going on in secret.
I went and confronted VPW myself and he told me ?what-so-ever things are pure.... Think on these things.?
I went back to my corps friend. She was working on a paper about the sex stuff being wrong. Someone ratted her out and made her stop working on it. We had a long talk trying to figure out how we could stop this "sex monster" from eating up our ministry! It was too big for us to turn things around.
So, I got out on the field and decided I was not going to stick around. That is when the mantle was passed to LCM. I wrote VPW ? one last time and told him that HE was the one tricked by deceiving spirits and the ministry would not survive if he did not straighten things out before he died. I never heard back from him.
Then, came the liberation of Ralph D. He never had gotten into the sex stuff! Even though VF and everyone (almost) else did. A woman went to him about VPW and he said come back with 2 or 3 witnesses and she returned with (I believe it was) 11. Ralph was blown away and asked VF if he knew. He said they all knew but did not tell Ralph because they knew he would not go for it.
I collected money and flew Ralph into California and we had meetings letting people know the truth about ?the secrets?. VPW was like everyone?s weird Uncle. People knew and did not know what to do.
Then, I stood up at a meeting and told what happened to me and a corps guy stood and called me a liar.
I thought, I had enough of this sh it and I stopped trying to fix things in TWI. I decided to fix me!
Only recently have I re-emerged when I heard of GS.
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 29, 2003 at 17:26.]
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WyoMan
Rafael, I said: "some people"
I really did not mean to include you in that intentionaly vague statement.
Heck, I have done many things in the past that I am not especially proud of but I certainly don't let that cloud my vision on just how positions of power have been used since the begining of time to take advantage of others...geez, I even understand how the fact that even though some may have been willing participants it will never excuse the behavior.
forgive and forget....heck maybe we forget that it could also mean that the sinner needs to "forget" his bad behavior (ie quit it!)
Al Hendrickson
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Raf
Dot, thank you so much for sharing that.
I believe you.
What hurts me is the knowledge that people will look at your story and casually dismiss it because it disagrees with their hero worship.
For what it's worth, I believe you.
Al,
Sorry I got defensive.
Raf
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Dot Matrix
Thanks Raf
It is true, and I used to worry if anyone believed me. Some how GS has gotten me to the point that if I tell the truth and people do not believe me -- I do not care anymore.
It is a great blessing to be believed and I am glad you do - but to the doubters I don't care. It happened if you do not believe me -- it still happened and if you do believe me well, cool because it happened.
So, all I can say is
It did happen.
Thanks Raf- Love to you!
Dot Matrix
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OCD #1
the Allens were getting money and had BIG counsel......i thought you knew that!? AND TWI was already in the dangter.....MOST knew that by then
;)--> 
;)-->
never did hear from HER! ..hmm
love your sig! Make's you want to abstain from evil....don't it? VPer shoulda!
second time i've read a post of yours...and they were both ILL!
condescending ___________!
...oh excuse me, i mean "one that would forsake family for your "faith".....sounds like you are already!
watch your roots don't rot with too much of a "watered garden"
now let me continue reading ......I'm hoping that was your only post in this thread :gag:
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
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OCD #1
SHHITT! TWI #1 fans UNITE!!
talk about soul stealing ....yup yup!
i was ONLY in TWI #1 ....fond memories, yeah....but it sucked too! ....funny thing memory is.....quite selective.....ESPECIALLY if you are in denial!
"I wanna be like Mike"
men wishing they had the picks of women and/or envious of those that do
women wishing they had the picks of men and/or envious of those that do
some get it....some don't!
You wish all the good stuff was true...BUT!
VP was a schmuck! ......you got hoodwinked by a schmuck...ahahahaha.......so did I!
Allens got paid and ditched WayDale! ahahahaha
Norm's going to play some music and chill! ahahahaha
later peeps
on my WAY OUT! Oldiesman! My God is bigger than your TWI #1 God ....nanananana.....would've gotten me where i am, come hell or high water! Both as a matter of fact!
----------------------------------------
I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
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TheEvan
Respondez-vous Dot, eh Oldiesman? Wanna pooh-pooh her story?
If you accept it, you must accept that hose-monster Wierwille? and his Way Ministry® were both a flim-flam piece of refuse.
I'm mad!
Not only was I in a cult, but it was a piece of crap cult.
Dot, I'm sure you meant 'when the mantle was being passed to Craig' not Chris. Thank you for the additional detail I don't recall hearing. (Though I've heard enough of the same to make me want to ralph all over again, sorry Ralph).
These were not sinners in "Gods Ministry©", this was the fabric of a corrupt organization, with a corrupt teaching, designed to USE people in the grossest, most uncaring manner possible.
Wierwille was an incredibly cold fish, apparently unable to truly empathize or feel the pain he was causing. Oh Gross.
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Radar OReilly
OCD 1
You are an IDIOT....do you hear me?
There is one cardinal rule here at Greasespot that cannot and will not be overlooked and that is that victims of lcm (and others) are not to be ridiculed, and definitely NOT by name.
You don't know what you are talking about regarding the Allens. You don't know them and you don't know what the terms of the settlement with TWI were. You don't know and you will never know. You don't know if there was an exchange of any money......you don't know if either of them post here under "handles" or not, YOU DON'T KNOW CRAP about this whole situation.
RADAR
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Orange Cat
Thanks Dot - thanks.
Makes you wonder what those mini-MOGs were thinking when they covered up for Vic. Boy I sure want to run out and join a splinter group headed by a "leader" who only spoke up after Vic had kicked the bucket. Wierd cult.
Orange Cat color>
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Dot Matrix
The Evan
Thanks I just went back and changed it! I did mean LCM not Chris!
Thanks OCAT
Dot Matrix
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OCD #1
you ARE like Radar on MASH! ....sharp as a tack...with a kind of "knowing"...
BTFW, Radar, i wasn't the first to mention the A**ens
--> aren't their names plastered all over this place? AND I don't believe I ridiculed them at all....wasn't part of the settlement that they/he shut down their/his site?
Radar, since you 'may' know......do you know if they are still together? ....i'm curious
;)-->
that's the biggest problem with this site/cult
NO, not the "cardinal" rule thing
the fact that y'all HIDING somethin'!!... Norm Oliveau Jr. here...pleased to meet whoeverthe....youare!
internet anonymity, it's so comfy for ya...aint it?
see yuz....wouldn't wanna be yuz
post your real freakin names ...will ya?....no! aww....ashamed? embarrassed? scared?
oh, the things i WISH i didn't know!
"Crazy!? You wouldn't know crazy if Charles Manson was eating Fruit Loops on your front porch!" - Suicidal Tendencies
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I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 29, 2003 at 17:52.]
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Hope R.
Norm, OCD, whatever ....
Radar is correct in saying that one of the unspoken "rules" we have always had at Waydale and GS is not to use any full names other than the trustees and their spouses. I always refer to the Axxxx's as "the first lawsuit". I don't want them being "googled" by anyone who could use this stuff against them.
FYI - P.A. did confront the trustees - right to their faces - before he and his wife got kicked off HQ's grounds. Then lies were told about them to the rest of the staff. The lawsuit came later.
Before you post stuff about other people - please get your facts straight. The reason you never heard from HER is because HER husband was gallant enough to protect her from all the comments and speculation regarding the law suit and her victimization. My admiration for him is boundless. I would only hope that you, or any other husband here at GS (including mine!), would have done the same.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
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Radar OReilly
OCD, unless you have seen a copy of the twi/allen settlement....you don't have any idea what the settlement was. You don't know if the status of Waydale was EVEN DISCUSSED, and furthermore it is none of your business.
Hey by the way, I love that part of the state you live in....I used to live there myself, now I am on the Carolina Coast.....and it is BEAUTIFUL.
ROR
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Radar OReilly
Exxie, sorry to derail this great thread.
ROR
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OCD #1
I've always been known for "breaking rules" Hope.....screw YOUR rules!!!
and please, the Allens names are all over this place ....paul and....dangt can't even remember their names......still, anybody "in the know" know how much they got? and if they are still together? I already know their real names from ....um, somewhere
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thanks.....got some tunes to tend to now, bye y'all!
sorry for derailing your thread EXC, i agree with you on that "missing the boat"
Cat Stevens - Longer Boats
"Longer boats are coming to win us, they're coming to win us, they're coming to win us...Longer boats are coming to win us, hold onto the shore, they'll be takin' the key from the door"
"I don't want no god on my lawn
Just a flower I can help along
'Cause the soul of no body knows
how a flower grows... Oh how a flower grows."
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I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 29, 2003 at 18:18.]
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OCD #1
more Way type secrecy....that's all folks!
"closed corporation".....hmm, I want NO part of it, trust me!
have YOU seen a copy? .....you special person you....:gag:
BTW, it should be a public document if it went through the courts....i just don't care
:P-->
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I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
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Zixar
Dot: Thank you. I don't see how anyone could dismiss accounts like yours now--you did everything by the book, and you got screwed. You didn't just make one try, you tried over and over until there was no one left to appeal to.
What the hell else could you do???
I think one thing that you mentioned that isn't hit on enough is that the upper leadership were actively involved in covering up for VPW. They not only KNEW, they ENABLED it to continue. If Ralph Dubofsky couldn't stop it, no one below him had a chance in hell of stopping it.
God bless you, Dot. In my eyes, you're a true heroine.
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Abigail
OCD,
I think you are a riot, really. I understand where you are coming from. Unspoken rules are difficult NOT to break and yes the names have been everywhere. However, they are trying to get on with their lives and would probably appreciate it if their names were NOT everywhere anymore.
With respect to the settlement. 80% or more of civil cases get settled out of court. The judges push for settlement, so do the laywers. Its cheaper for everyone involved, including us tax payers.
It is extremely common for cases that are settled to have a "no disclosure" clause. This means neither party is allowed to discuss the terms of the settlement.
With respect to names. There are many reasons to not post your real name, here or anywhere else on the internet. I don't want every creep out there (and there are some) to know who I am. I pick and choose who I disclose my real name to and then only privately, via email.
Back on topic.
Excathedra, thank you for starting this thread. I know this is an extremely difficult subject for you to discuss. Dot, thank you as well, for sharing your story.
WG - Having been a victim of date rape, not by anyone in TWI, I can speak from my perspective.
It is very very common, especially for younger women, (who are basically still girls) to blame themselves when someone they know and trust rapes them. It took me almost 15 years to tell my story to someone I knew. It took me almost 15 years to understand that what happened to me that night was rape. It took me almost 15 years to realize it was not my fault.
I don't think I am particularly different from most women. Perhaps this helps you understand some, why it has taken so long for women to speak up regarding VPW. Once one woman was FINALLY able to speak out, it made it easier for others too as well. They knew they were not alone.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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OCD #1
funny, i did a google search, "all the words" "allens the way"
greasespotcafe.com has got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place......silly
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i think greasespotcafe.com about ruined Doug McMullens chances at a fair shake....from what i 'hear' anyway .......fukk this antiquated crap.....go ahead, help the few that still need it or convert those that don't know they need it yet....i got shlitz to do!
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I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
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OCD #1
Hi Abigail....and i thought you didn't like me
"would appreciate it if their names were NOT everywhere anymore" ...ah, the price of "fame"
how's come there is open season on the BOT?
i am in no way a "sympathizer"
why can't everybody speak with truth and boldness?....i guess i grew up in a tough neighborhood, you had better stand up for yourself!!! AND, you wanted everybody to know your name......those days are gone, i suppose
"cheers, no tears" - Maze
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I think everyone should treat one another in a Christian manner.
I will NOT however, be responsible for the consequences. - George Carlin
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Abigail
Awww Norm, I like ya honest.
Millions I had difficulty with. OCD is a laugh riot. I guess you've grown on me. I really do think you are funny and have a lot of heart. Sometimes I think your mouth is bigger than your brain. So what, sometimes my mouth is bigger than my brain to. Guess its part of being human.
Ginger,
Not sure what you mean by "smatter around". I thought we were simply discussing it. However, you are right, there is no book and everyone responds to everything in their own unique and different ways. Though, even in that there are generally similarities.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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Dot Matrix
Zix
Thanks. It was a difficult situation to be in. I think the reasons are obvious.
I always felt so bad for Dorthea, how awful for her to know what went on.
Abg- Thank you.
Dot Matrix
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QamiQazi
Watered Garden, your answer is condescending and mean. I realize you can't hear yourself. I conclude this because you can't hear anyone else. "Your" question has been answered so often by so many it's become nearly tedious repetition, if not for the sincerity with which each has answered. I suspect something within you is trying to wear people down. That's what you do. That's how you do it. You just keep saying "I don't understand," and with it, you repeat your accusation, again and again.
We are not discussing something distant and absurd, like the moon made of cheese. How could you draw that analogy? Maybe you are as cold and distant as the moon, despite your protests otherwise. And maybe your pretense of concern is as false as the claim the moon is made of cheese. That's what I think.
I hear in your voice an ordinarily good person, but with something bitter, vindictive, antagonistic, vengeful, a seed of contempt stirring within you. You don't hear it. You wouldn't. You have contempt for this suggestion. But others have heard it in the past. That's where you've heard "shut up, shut up, shut up." Three times you quoted it. You must drive people to exasperation when you want to. And you do want to. That's your game, when you feel like playing it. It's not very pretty, is it?
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Hope R.
(sorry)
Dot - I lost your email addy. Please check your private message box. Thanks...
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
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