If you don't know about that one, then you probably don't know about the others....Pat's done a bang up job of documenting facts, posting copies of depositions and newspaper articles. There's a wealth of information there about the ugly legal stuff TWIts aren't told about. The lawyers are probably laughing all the way to the bank with TWIt abundant sharing.
If I recall, there have been several professional opinions posted here at GS, by attorneys, concerning sueing for ABS...or our "tithe"...and there are no real legal grounds for this approach...am I wrong?
As much as I would like to see the Peelers take twi over the coals...I have my doubts. If they win their lawsuit...I will be the first to sign up for a class action suit.
I respect what Johnny Lingo is saying...however, the same is not true for me. At first, I gave to God from the heart...but it didn't take long for me to cop an attitude when twi began pressuring me into giving them what I OWED! It instantly became a case of giving grudgingly and out of necessity...and it also became clear to me that what I had designated for God, was being hijacked by a few cult leaders.
They hang around twi for years, freely give money because they are blessed, but then years later when bad things happen and they don't like what's happening, they sue for their money back. Does that make any sense?
UncleHairy, I'm not an attorney but I don't see any real legal basis for this lawsuit.
I wonder if something like this would fall into the category of a frivilous lawsuit? Don't know but if I were the judge, I'd think about it. There should be consequences for abuse of the legal system.
If a person can sue a church to get his "tithes" back...a pandora's box of litigation would flood the courts. I believe that there have been legal precedents that deal with this very issue.
oldies says..."they hang around twi for years, freely give money because they are blessed..."
I cannot agree with you on this one...most folks I knew gave their money because they were intimidated, threatened, and browbeat to give it. Twi taught that giving them your money was a NECESSITY...check out your bible...that's a freakin' lie....and blessed? Give me a break! The main reason used to extort money out of people was because they WERE NOT blessed, and they needed to give MORE MONEY to become blessed.
Wherever twi used the word "blessed", you can exchange it with the word "fu*ked" and come up with a more accurate assessment of the situation....When you stand with twi, you are fu*ked, when you give twi your money, you are fu*ked, when the twi leader would say "bless you", he really meant "fu*k you"...I think you get the idea.
I don't know how this is happing. I'm agreeing with oldies and he's from New York.
But to be serious, this is a laugh. If you give you money freely to God then it is a act of worship.
Their only grounds could be that they were forced to give more then what they wanted or they would have to leave. This case walks a fine line.
Personally I turned my back on twi and never looked back. I miss some of the old friends. But I knew that leaving would mean leaving friends. That was there control over us.
Personaly my belief is that when I give money to the church I'm giving it to God. If the church wastes it or throws it away its between them and God. The one thing I have learned over the years is that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He doesn't need the money. What happens is that as we sacrifice things by giving the money rather than spending it. We are placeing God first in our lives.
TWI was right in the aspect of you can tell a lot about a person by how they spend their money.
Respectfully and humbly, I feel that I must point out something.
"Wherever twi used the word "blessed", you can exchange it with the word "fu*ked" and come up with a more accurate assessment of the situation....When you stand with twi, you are fu*ked, when you give twi your money, you are fu*ked, when the twi leader would say "bless you", he really meant "fu*k you"...I think you get the idea."
I read this humourously.
I can agree that in many case such was the case.
I however dont use the phrase is such a manner, and I know others who do not use such.
When I say "Bless You", I do mean it, and I have no intention of saying or meaning anything near what you are implying.
:-)
When we collect: 'tithes and abundant sharing', we also welcome ideas of who locally should get the blessing of that money. We have bought Bibles to stock public library shelves, we have stocked the pantrys of homeless shelters, we have covered rent and/or utility bills when the military has made mistakes in people's pay causing them to go months without pay. I would have to assume that many other fellowships have done and are doing the same. In our travels we have seen other fellowships that did these kinds of things as well.
ex70'shouston says..."Twi was right in the aspect of you can tell a lot about a person by how they spend their money"
Might be the truest thing twi ever said...When I gave twi my money, I was clearly a mark and a sucker. I would have done better to send my money to Ron Pompeil for one of those garden weasles.
Galen...I certainly don't mean that tithing to a church is a bad thing...I am referring exclusively to twi. They were not a church, they were/are a cult...and I do not recall anytime in which I was consulted as to how my ABS money should be spent...in fact, twi made a point of centralizing all their money into one location and into the control of just a few people.
I cannot agree with you on this one...most folks I knew gave their money because they were intimidated, threatened, and browbeat to give it.
The worst I ever heard or read was that you owed God the tithe and if you didn't pay, you wouldn't prosper. But, that's still up to the individual to try it to see if it works or not.
We can spin this any way we wish, but the bottom line is, we gave money freely. Even if our giving was considered a religious obligation. Even if our giving was considered a way to get God's hedge of protection around us. Individuals had and have the ability not to believe that, and not give. If you didn't want to partake, you didn't have to. That's the whole reason why the Peeler case is so ludicrous. They could have declined to give at any point in the process.
I abhor the state we find the courts in today. Half the suits filed these days are nothing but legal extortion useing the courts and insane judges that agree to hear a "complaint." I firmly believe that all suits should be "loser pays all costs." Which the defendant does if he loses.... but if the plaintiff loses he must sue to recover his costs. Usually a losing proposition. Perhaps it should be if the plantiff cannot pay the costs to the vindicated defendant.... the attorneys that brought the suit should have to pay!!! Bet that would redue the number of bull sh1t dangs filed!!!
But I digress... in this case I hope the insanity of our courts works in favor of the Peelers.
I abhor the state we find the courts in today. Half the suits filed these days are nothing but legal extortion useing the courts and insane judges that agree to hear a "complaint."
Al, I was about to agree with you, until you typed that last paragraph. But this one is good.
I think the Peeler lawsuit is insane and frivilous. You summed it up quite well.
Hatred of twi doesn't mean the legal system should be abused in the process.
I'm thinking it would be a difficult case to win in court. I'm sure TWI's attorneys will trot out the definition legal definition of TWI, which includes "...a follower of The Way FREELY avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth." TWI seems to be really prepared to handle complaints like this. They actually DO know what they are really doing to people.
I don't see how the plaintiff's attorneys can get past the freewill offering aspect regarding every penny they gave. If they recieved a class paid for it is a completed transaction regardless of how awful said class was.
Personally, I feel a great deal of the "victory" here is that a judge thought there was enough merit in the Peelers' case to hold it over for court.
Problem is though, TWI does such a great job at focusing on the correct personality types and then brainwashing their current followers that even if the Peelers should prevail, it would make virtually no difference.
Current TWIt's would probably give more to help "heal 'God's' ministry."
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danteh1
i haven't heard anything. maybe paw might know if they have set a date.
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Out There
What is this case about? can you give some vague or not so vague details?
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Belle
Out There, here's a link to information on the trial excultworld Lawsuit Section
If you don't know about that one, then you probably don't know about the others....Pat's done a bang up job of documenting facts, posting copies of depositions and newspaper articles. There's a wealth of information there about the ugly legal stuff TWIts aren't told about. The lawyers are probably laughing all the way to the bank with TWIt abundant sharing.
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bowtwi
As I recall, either this month or next has court dates in this matter.
Pat - do you know what's scheduled next and when?
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bowtwi
The Peeler trial date has been moved to September 7, 2005.
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GrouchoMarxJr
After reading the provided links concerning the Peeler case, am I correct that they are sueing twi for the ABS money they gave?...
If that's the case, I'm gonna file my lawsuit next week!
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oldiesman
The lawsuit is ludicrous.
Yeah, maybe we should all sue them for all our ABS money back.
-->
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outandabout
yeah, like a class action?
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J0nny Ling0
I could never sue to get ABS back.
Ever. When I gave, in my heart, I gave it to God.
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GrouchoMarxJr
If I recall, there have been several professional opinions posted here at GS, by attorneys, concerning sueing for ABS...or our "tithe"...and there are no real legal grounds for this approach...am I wrong?
As much as I would like to see the Peelers take twi over the coals...I have my doubts. If they win their lawsuit...I will be the first to sign up for a class action suit.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I respect what Johnny Lingo is saying...however, the same is not true for me. At first, I gave to God from the heart...but it didn't take long for me to cop an attitude when twi began pressuring me into giving them what I OWED! It instantly became a case of giving grudgingly and out of necessity...and it also became clear to me that what I had designated for God, was being hijacked by a few cult leaders.
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oldiesman
They hang around twi for years, freely give money because they are blessed, but then years later when bad things happen and they don't like what's happening, they sue for their money back. Does that make any sense?
UncleHairy, I'm not an attorney but I don't see any real legal basis for this lawsuit.
I wonder if something like this would fall into the category of a frivilous lawsuit? Don't know but if I were the judge, I'd think about it. There should be consequences for abuse of the legal system.
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GrouchoMarxJr
If a person can sue a church to get his "tithes" back...a pandora's box of litigation would flood the courts. I believe that there have been legal precedents that deal with this very issue.
oldies says..."they hang around twi for years, freely give money because they are blessed..."
I cannot agree with you on this one...most folks I knew gave their money because they were intimidated, threatened, and browbeat to give it. Twi taught that giving them your money was a NECESSITY...check out your bible...that's a freakin' lie....and blessed? Give me a break! The main reason used to extort money out of people was because they WERE NOT blessed, and they needed to give MORE MONEY to become blessed.
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GrouchoMarxJr
,,,In fact, I will take it one step further...
Wherever twi used the word "blessed", you can exchange it with the word "fu*ked" and come up with a more accurate assessment of the situation....When you stand with twi, you are fu*ked, when you give twi your money, you are fu*ked, when the twi leader would say "bless you", he really meant "fu*k you"...I think you get the idea.
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ex70sHouston
I don't know how this is happing. I'm agreeing with oldies and he's from New York.
But to be serious, this is a laugh. If you give you money freely to God then it is a act of worship.
Their only grounds could be that they were forced to give more then what they wanted or they would have to leave. This case walks a fine line.
Personally I turned my back on twi and never looked back. I miss some of the old friends. But I knew that leaving would mean leaving friends. That was there control over us.
Personaly my belief is that when I give money to the church I'm giving it to God. If the church wastes it or throws it away its between them and God. The one thing I have learned over the years is that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He doesn't need the money. What happens is that as we sacrifice things by giving the money rather than spending it. We are placeing God first in our lives.
TWI was right in the aspect of you can tell a lot about a person by how they spend their money.
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Galen
UncleHairy:
Respectfully and humbly, I feel that I must point out something.
"Wherever twi used the word "blessed", you can exchange it with the word "fu*ked" and come up with a more accurate assessment of the situation....When you stand with twi, you are fu*ked, when you give twi your money, you are fu*ked, when the twi leader would say "bless you", he really meant "fu*k you"...I think you get the idea."
I read this humourously.
I can agree that in many case such was the case.
I however dont use the phrase is such a manner, and I know others who do not use such.
When I say "Bless You", I do mean it, and I have no intention of saying or meaning anything near what you are implying.
:-)
When we collect: 'tithes and abundant sharing', we also welcome ideas of who locally should get the blessing of that money. We have bought Bibles to stock public library shelves, we have stocked the pantrys of homeless shelters, we have covered rent and/or utility bills when the military has made mistakes in people's pay causing them to go months without pay. I would have to assume that many other fellowships have done and are doing the same. In our travels we have seen other fellowships that did these kinds of things as well.
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GrouchoMarxJr
ex70'shouston says..."Twi was right in the aspect of you can tell a lot about a person by how they spend their money"
Might be the truest thing twi ever said...When I gave twi my money, I was clearly a mark and a sucker. I would have done better to send my money to Ron Pompeil for one of those garden weasles.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Galen...I certainly don't mean that tithing to a church is a bad thing...I am referring exclusively to twi. They were not a church, they were/are a cult...and I do not recall anytime in which I was consulted as to how my ABS money should be spent...in fact, twi made a point of centralizing all their money into one location and into the control of just a few people.
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oldiesman
The worst I ever heard or read was that you owed God the tithe and if you didn't pay, you wouldn't prosper. But, that's still up to the individual to try it to see if it works or not.
We can spin this any way we wish, but the bottom line is, we gave money freely. Even if our giving was considered a religious obligation. Even if our giving was considered a way to get God's hedge of protection around us. Individuals had and have the ability not to believe that, and not give. If you didn't want to partake, you didn't have to. That's the whole reason why the Peeler case is so ludicrous. They could have declined to give at any point in the process.
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rascal
Ummm I was told that as long as I gave over 10 percent of my money before taxes to twi....God could protect me and Satan would not hurt me....
Sounds like a clear case of extortion to me.
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Al Poole
I abhor the state we find the courts in today. Half the suits filed these days are nothing but legal extortion useing the courts and insane judges that agree to hear a "complaint." I firmly believe that all suits should be "loser pays all costs." Which the defendant does if he loses.... but if the plaintiff loses he must sue to recover his costs. Usually a losing proposition. Perhaps it should be if the plantiff cannot pay the costs to the vindicated defendant.... the attorneys that brought the suit should have to pay!!! Bet that would redue the number of bull sh1t dangs filed!!!
But I digress... in this case I hope the insanity of our courts works in favor of the Peelers.
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oldiesman
I think the Peeler lawsuit is insane and frivilous. You summed it up quite well.
Hatred of twi doesn't mean the legal system should be abused in the process.
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HCW
I'm thinking it would be a difficult case to win in court. I'm sure TWI's attorneys will trot out the definition legal definition of TWI, which includes "...a follower of The Way FREELY avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth." TWI seems to be really prepared to handle complaints like this. They actually DO know what they are really doing to people.
I don't see how the plaintiff's attorneys can get past the freewill offering aspect regarding every penny they gave. If they recieved a class paid for it is a completed transaction regardless of how awful said class was.
Personally, I feel a great deal of the "victory" here is that a judge thought there was enough merit in the Peelers' case to hold it over for court.
Problem is though, TWI does such a great job at focusing on the correct personality types and then brainwashing their current followers that even if the Peelers should prevail, it would make virtually no difference.
Current TWIt's would probably give more to help "heal 'God's' ministry."
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GrouchoMarxJr
oldies says..."We can spin this any way we wish, but the bottom line is, we gave money freely"
Hey oldies...who's the "we" you're talking about? Are you the official spokesman here, representing others? I suggest that you speak for yourself.
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