I highly suspect it had some sort of symbolic significance at the time it was written. The real question is whether we can understand that symbolism and, even if we can, is it relevant to us today?
How many of you were told to believe the 10 virgins represent “Church goers” and the oil represents the “Holy Spirit”?
Never heard this before since there was no "church" concept in the gospels - only the lost children of Israel from the Old Testament.
If you were told to believe this… and you are still convinced of it… can you share with us what Christ is telling you:
The key word is “all”: 100% of the virgins (Church goers) “slumbered and slept” … while the bridegroom tarried.
There is nothing significant about "all" of them falling asleep - the sandman simply got to them before their inconsiderate bridegroom who'd been keeping them waiting decided to show up at midnight.
What did Christ mean by that?
What is the divine truth that this parable/illustration reveals to you… about you slumbering into sleep?
Far be it for me, an atheist, to know what a "divine" truth would be, but if I was to take a guess, I'd say slumbering into sleep is a blessing while having insomnia is a curse.
Can you cite Scriptures to support your answer? Deuteronomy 28
Curious.
Also, do you see a correlation between the “Fig Tree” (Matt. 24:32-34) & the “10 Virgins”? Well, the fig tree did get cursed...
I’m interested in your perspective… seeking to jump start a healthy exchange… as interpretations of the 10 Virgins scatter the prophetic map. Aprophetic map would be helpful when navigating through the thousands of denominations there are in the world. Where can I buy one?
Additionally, in this thread, we will hear from the Lord God, Christ, the Prophets & Apostles, all of whom speak with one voice on the subject. Then why are you asking for different voices from posters? I'm confused.
How many of you were told to believe the 10 virgins represent “Church goers” and the oil represents the “Holy Spirit”?
If you were told to believe this… and you are still convinced of it… can you share with us what Christ is telling you:
“While the bridegroom tarried,theyall slumbered and slept.” (Matt. 25:5)
The key word is “all”: 100% of the virgins (Church goers) “slumbered and slept” … while the bridegroom tarried.
What did Christ mean by that?
What is the divine truth that this parable/illustration reveals to you… about you slumbering into sleep?
Can you cite Scriptures to support your answer?
Curious.
Also, do you see a correlation between the “Fig Tree” (Matt. 24:32-34) & the “10 Virgins”?
I’m interested in your perspective… seeking to jump start a healthy exchange… as interpretations of the 10 Virgins scatter the prophetic map.
Additionally, in this thread, we will hear from the Lord God, Christ, the Prophets & Apostles, all of whom speak with one voice on the subject.
Peace.
revvel
I never explored this at all but see it as a general reminder to be prepared for living an eternal life with Jesus and try in the here and now to be loving and kind to all. (as hard as that it at times.)
I highly suspect it had some sort of symbolic significance at the time it was written. The real question is whether we can understand that symbolism and, even if we can, is it relevant to us today?
Yes! Waysider. Thank you. That is exactly what Christ is presenting to us: the symbolic significance of a parable, and how it relates to the literal context of Matthew 24, and the future. It is quite relevant as the parable points to the kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
The 10 Virgins: Christ & OT Prophets, Matthew 24:27-31
I think we all can agree, the context of Matthew 25 is Matthew 24.
When Christ’s prophecy (24:27-31) is fulfilled, several Old Testament prophecies will be fulfilled as well. Thus, we have several witnesses speaking with one voice on the subject of the “elect.” Who are the “elect” (the context of the (figurative) 10 Virgins)?
Now, let Christ and the prophets speak...
Christ
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light…. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matt. 24:29, 31)
Ezekiel
Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain [the dead] so that they live.” … He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.” (Ezek. 37:9, 11)
Joel
The sun and moon darken, and the stars withdraw their radiance. The Lord roars from Zion, and sounds His voice from Jerusalem, and heaven and earth quake. But the Lord is a refuge for His people, and a stronghold for the children of Israel. (Joel 3:15, 16)
Isaiah
[Y]ou shall be gathered one by one, O sons of Israel. And in that day the great trumpet shall be blown, and those who were ready to perish in the land of Assyria and the outcasts in the land of Egypt shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.(Isa. 27:12, 13)
“Israel mine elect” (Isa. 45:4). “Israel shall be saved by the Lord with an everlasting salvation”(Isa. 45:17).
Daniel
Seventy weeks have been determined for your people [Daniel’s people: Israel] and upon your holy city… and to make atonement for iniquity…” (Dan. 9:24)
The “Parable of the 10 Virgins” is in the context of the following: the elect, dark moon, great trumpet, Christ’s second coming to Israel to gather the sons of Israel, and the Fig Tree. I’ll come back to this divine truth.
Next: 10 Virgins: “Sleeping” Metaphor, Isaiah, Christ & The Mystery
I never explored this at all but see it as a general reminder to be prepared for living an eternal life with Jesus and try in the here and now to be loving and kind to all. (as hard as that it at times.)
Yes, oldiesman!
Even though the context of the parable is Israel, we can learn a lesson from the wise & foolish virgins... and it relates to what you are saying.
Yes! Waysider. Thank you. That is exactly what Christ is presenting to us: the symbolic significance of a parable, and how it relates to the literal context of Matthew 24, and the future. It is quite relevant as the parable points to the kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
The 10 Virgins: Christ & OT Prophets, Matthew 24:27-31
I think we all can agree, the context of Matthew 25 is Matthew 24.
When Christ’s prophecy (24:27-31) is fulfilled, several Old Testament prophecies will be fulfilled as well. Thus, we have several witnesses speaking with one voice on the subject of the “elect.” Who are the “elect” (the context of the (figurative) 10 Virgins)?
Now, let Christ and the prophets speak...
Christ
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light…. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matt. 24:29, 31)
Ezekiel
Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain [the dead] so that they live.” … He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.” (Ezek. 37:9, 11)
Joel
The sun and moon darken, and the stars withdraw their radiance. The Lord roars from Zion, and sounds His voice from Jerusalem, and heaven and earth quake. But the Lord is a refuge for His people, and a stronghold for the children of Israel. (Joel 3:15, 16)
Isaiah
[Y]ou shall be gathered one by one, O sons of Israel. And in that day the great trumpet shall be blown, and those who were ready to perish in the land of Assyria and the outcasts in the land of Egypt shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.(Isa. 27:12, 13)
“Israel mine elect” (Isa. 45:4). “Israel shall be saved by the Lord with an everlasting salvation”(Isa. 45:17).
Daniel
Seventy weeks have been determined for your people [Daniel’s people: Israel] and upon your holy city… and to make atonement for iniquity…” (Dan. 9:24)
The “Parable of the 10 Virgins” is in the context of the following: the elect, dark moon, great trumpet, Christ’s second coming to Israel to gather the sons of Israel, and the Fig Tree. I’ll come back to this divine truth.
Next: 10 Virgins: “Sleeping” Metaphor, Isaiah, Christ & The Mystery
Peace.
revvel
The "seventy weeks" have been used to try and calculate either the time of the rapture or Jesus' return to earth depending on one's belief. Have your studies of the seventy weeks given you an idea of how soon the above will take place?
Hi Revvel, you've met the sarcastic part of me already. I'll be serious now. What was I spared from and why was I spared?
Charity,
Excellent question.
You were spared from what Peter warned against:
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of the Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation. For no prophecy at any time was produced by the will of man, but holy men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
Regarding the Parable of the 10 Virgins, we need the complete witness of the Old and New Testaments—not a personal interpretation devoid of these witnesses.
Practically speaking, you were spared from the human imagination: the interpretation of the wise & foolish virgins representing “Church goers”—when in reality they represent Israel. Israel will be judged by a completely different lens, versus those cleansed by the blood of Christ.
Israel: Daniel 12:1-3; Matt. 19:28; Matt. 25:31-46
In essence, if you are told to believe the 10 Virgins represent Church goers, then you end up with the incorrect belief that you will be judged as Israel will be judged. That is what you were spared from.
The "seventy weeks" have been used to try and calculate either the time of the rapture or Jesus' return to earth depending on one's belief. Have your studies of the seventy weeks given you an idea of how soon the above will take place?
Charity,
I like the way you think... forward thinking.
When we get to the witness of Christ & the Fig Tree parable/prophecy, you can draw your own conclusions. You seem smart enough to do so.
That assumes it's historically and factually accurate. (Which it is not.)
Your position on the matter is so noted.
Waysider: As a student of the Bible (assuming you are) do you believe you have the right to know the lens by which your teachers/pastors/priests/professors/theologians view the Bible?
Here is the Lens given by Christ that I use.
1.Lens: Divine Revelation
Paul: “But I reveal to you, brothers, that the gospel* which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, neither was I taught it, except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Gal. 1:11, 12)
Paul: 2 Timothy 3:16, 17:“All Scripture is inspired by God [Greek:Theopneustos = God-breathed] and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Peter: 2 Peter 1:21:“For no prophecy at any time was produced by the will of man, but holy men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
John: Rev. 22:16: “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to you with this testimony for the churches.”
2.Lens: The Mystery
Within this lens—of Christ’s divine revelation—there is another lens given to us by Christ on how to view Genesis to Revelation: The Mystery.
[W]e speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age knew it. For had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (1 Cor. 2:7, 8)
From Genesis to the Gospel of John, God had hidden a mystery—in Scriptures given prior to the Crucifixion.
Could Christ have revealed the mystery prior to the Crucifixion? No… of course not.
After the Resurrection/Ascension, Christ could reveal the mystery—and He did. That is the lens by which to view the Book of Acts to the Book of Revelation—while looking back at the rest of the Bible, including the Parable of the 10 Virgins.
Christ handed us the key to unlock prophecies from The Torah to the Book of Revelation: The Mystery.
Romans 16
*Now to Him who has power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret for long ages past, but now is revealed by the prophetic Scriptures according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all the Gentiles for the obedience of faith, to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Rom. 16:25-27)
The revelation of the mystery in Romans: The Church & Israel.
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Twinky
????????
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Rocky
you sound delusional.
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waysider
I highly suspect it had some sort of symbolic significance at the time it was written. The real question is whether we can understand that symbolism and, even if we can, is it relevant to us today?
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Charity
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oldiesman
I never explored this at all but see it as a general reminder to be prepared for living an eternal life with Jesus and try in the here and now to be loving and kind to all. (as hard as that it at times.)
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revvel
Yes! Waysider. Thank you. That is exactly what Christ is presenting to us: the symbolic significance of a parable, and how it relates to the literal context of Matthew 24, and the future. It is quite relevant as the parable points to the kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
The 10 Virgins: Christ & OT Prophets, Matthew 24:27-31
I think we all can agree, the context of Matthew 25 is Matthew 24.
When Christ’s prophecy (24:27-31) is fulfilled, several Old Testament prophecies will be fulfilled as well. Thus, we have several witnesses speaking with one voice on the subject of the “elect.” Who are the “elect” (the context of the (figurative) 10 Virgins)?
Now, let Christ and the prophets speak...
Christ
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light…. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matt. 24:29, 31)
Ezekiel
Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain [the dead] so that they live.” … He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.” (Ezek. 37:9, 11)
Joel
The sun and moon darken, and the stars withdraw their radiance. The Lord roars from Zion, and sounds His voice from Jerusalem, and heaven and earth quake. But the Lord is a refuge for His people, and a stronghold for the children of Israel. (Joel 3:15, 16)
Isaiah
[Y]ou shall be gathered one by one, O sons of Israel. And in that day the great trumpet shall be blown, and those who were ready to perish in the land of Assyria and the outcasts in the land of Egypt shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. (Isa. 27:12, 13)
“Israel mine elect” (Isa. 45:4). “Israel shall be saved by the Lord with an everlasting salvation” (Isa. 45:17).
Daniel
Seventy weeks have been determined for your people [Daniel’s people: Israel] and upon your holy city… and to make atonement for iniquity…” (Dan. 9:24)
The “Parable of the 10 Virgins” is in the context of the following: the elect, dark moon, great trumpet, Christ’s second coming to Israel to gather the sons of Israel, and the Fig Tree. I’ll come back to this divine truth.
Next: 10 Virgins: “Sleeping” Metaphor, Isaiah, Christ & The Mystery
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Charity... you were spared... and you are correct: the "elect" of Matthew 24 refers to the sons of Israel, the literal context of the 10 Virgins.
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Yes, oldiesman!
Even though the context of the parable is Israel, we can learn a lesson from the wise & foolish virgins... and it relates to what you are saying.
You will see parallels.
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Stick around Twinky... your question marks will turn into exclamation marks... courtesy of the Lord God, Christ, the Apostles & Prophets.
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Always good to be back in the greasespotcafe................................... Bartender... over here.
You too Rocky. Stick around. We'll see about that delusional thing...
Peace.
revvel
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Charity
Hi Revvel, you've met the sarcastic part of me already. I'll be serious now. What was I spared from and why was I spared?
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Charity
The "seventy weeks" have been used to try and calculate either the time of the rapture or Jesus' return to earth depending on one's belief. Have your studies of the seventy weeks given you an idea of how soon the above will take place?
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waysider
I mean, for all we know, the writer might have been simply voicing a veiled opinion on the political climate at that time.
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revvel
Charity,
Excellent question.
You were spared from what Peter warned against:
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of the Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation. For no prophecy at any time was produced by the will of man, but holy men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
Regarding the Parable of the 10 Virgins, we need the complete witness of the Old and New Testaments—not a personal interpretation devoid of these witnesses.
Practically speaking, you were spared from the human imagination: the interpretation of the wise & foolish virgins representing “Church goers”—when in reality they represent Israel. Israel will be judged by a completely different lens, versus those cleansed by the blood of Christ.
Church: 1 Cor. 3:11-15; Rom. 14:10-12; Rom. 5:9; Eph. 1:13, 14; 1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9
Israel: Daniel 12:1-3; Matt. 19:28; Matt. 25:31-46
In essence, if you are told to believe the 10 Virgins represent Church goers, then you end up with the incorrect belief that you will be judged as Israel will be judged. That is what you were spared from.
As far as why you were spared, I have no idea.
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Order another one, waysider ...
You can draw your own conclusion--after we hear from the witnesses: The Torah to the Book of Revelation.
Peace.
revvel
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revvel
Charity,
I like the way you think... forward thinking.
When we get to the witness of Christ & the Fig Tree parable/prophecy, you can draw your own conclusions. You seem smart enough to do so.
Peace.
revvel
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waysider
That assumes it's historically and factually accurate. (Which it is not.)
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revvel
Your position on the matter is so noted.
Waysider: As a student of the Bible (assuming you are) do you believe you have the right to know the lens by which your teachers/pastors/priests/professors/theologians view the Bible?
Here is the Lens given by Christ that I use.
1. Lens: Divine Revelation
Paul: “But I reveal to you, brothers, that the gospel* which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, neither was I taught it, except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Gal. 1:11, 12)
Paul: 2 Timothy 3:16, 17: “All Scripture is inspired by God [Greek: Theopneustos = God-breathed] and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Peter: 2 Peter 1:21: “For no prophecy at any time was produced by the will of man, but holy men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
John: Rev. 22:16: “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to you with this testimony for the churches.”
2. Lens: The Mystery
Within this lens—of Christ’s divine revelation—there is another lens given to us by Christ on how to view Genesis to Revelation: The Mystery.
[W]e speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age knew it. For had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (1 Cor. 2:7, 8)
From Genesis to the Gospel of John, God had hidden a mystery—in Scriptures given prior to the Crucifixion.
Could Christ have revealed the mystery prior to the Crucifixion? No… of course not.
After the Resurrection/Ascension, Christ could reveal the mystery—and He did. That is the lens by which to view the Book of Acts to the Book of Revelation—while looking back at the rest of the Bible, including the Parable of the 10 Virgins.
Christ handed us the key to unlock prophecies from The Torah to the Book of Revelation: The Mystery.
Romans 16
*Now to Him who has power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret for long ages past, but now is revealed by the prophetic Scriptures according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all the Gentiles for the obedience of faith, to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Rom. 16:25-27)
The revelation of the mystery in Romans: The Church & Israel.
Next: The revelation of the mystery: Israel.
Peace.
revvel
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modcat5
We're going to let the namecalling slide because it resolved on its own, but in the future please refrain from it.
If you want to question the rational basis of someone's post, employ reason, not namecalling please.
Sincerely, the poster who coined the name Smikeol.
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