Departing from TWI brain and exploring other concepts has been refreshing for me; here's one to watch:
I appreciate how he shows the destructiveness of the false rapture doctrine.
What is bothersome to me, though, is how he condemns the unjust killings from 2 wars (one that is currently ongoing and a nuclear one happening quite possibly in the future) yet he has no problem with the 70 000 Israelites he mentions who were killed by God with a plague nor with the last war he says is certain to happen. As he puts it, “God’s fiery judgment at the end of time – it is a heavenly fire, not an earthly one. At that day, the last day, the end of time, there will be no survivors (which he states 4 times).”
Although he uses the bible to preach that there be peace, not war, in the world today, he is very political against Zionism.
Edited by Charity Changed first sentence and added last one.
In the 14th century, a bubonic plague wiped out half of Europe’s population - 50 million!
God must have been very p$ssed with someone or something to have killed so many that time.
Then there will be the 7 plagues in Revelation to look forward to - thank goodness though for the gathering together which will save Christians from this specific wrath of God - oh wait - there will be no rapture.
Nope, VPW said this in one of his "classes". He was presenting this as a sarcastic interpretation of mainstream Christianity's doctrine on the subject.
I wouldn't doubt, though, some versions of this have appeared in non-TWI contexts.
Nope, VPW said this in one of his "classes". He was presenting this as a sarcastic interpretation of mainstream Christianity's doctrine on the subject.
I wouldn't doubt, though, some versions of this have appeared in non-TWI contexts.
Ha! That was my initial reflex, but I hadn’t yet SIT this morning, so I couldn’t be sure if it was revelation or just experiential intuition or phenomenon. Plus, the answer only came to me once, not twice. An unestablished revelation is no revelation at all.
There haven't been many points of view made on the specific topic itself considering the sub-forum it's on. If anyone who views this thread (195 so far) would like to discuss if there will be a rapture or not, please do.
What I've seen asked on podcasts I've watched are these 3 questions. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Do you care if it's true or not?
There haven't been many points of view made on the specific topic itself considering the sub-forum it's on. If anyone who views this thread (195 so far) would like to discuss if there will be a rapture or not, please do.
What I've seen asked on podcasts I've watched are these 3 questions. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Do you care if it's true or not?
Part of the process is to learn other viewpoints, and that takes some time. Remember in PFAL VPW dissuaded us from reading commentaries; but how the heck can we know what else is out there? I'd like to review everything now...
No. But hold on while I make some tea. I can hardly wait for this!
Oh I forgot to come back to VPW's distinction between a resurrection and a rising.
I'm going from memory, so if anyone still has Are the Dead Alive Now, feel free to chime in.
We know Revelation teaches that there will be a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. But where does the Gathering Together fit in? Well, the GC is not a resurrection at all, because even though all those people are getting up from the dead, they're joining people who are living, so it's just a rising, not a resurrection.
See?
As opposed to the first and second resurrections, which feature formerly dead people... also... joining... the living... wait.
Oh I forgot to come back to VPW's distinction between a resurrection and a rising.
I'm going from memory, so if anyone still has Are the Dead Alive Now, feel free to chime in.
We know Revelation teaches that there will be a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. But where does the Gathering Together fit in? Well, the GC is not a resurrection at all, because even though all those people are getting up from the dead, they're joining people who are living, so it's just a rising, not a resurrection.
See?
As opposed to the first and second resurrections, which feature formerly dead people... also... joining... the living... wait.
I see.
A glove here, a hand there. What accuracy! Such in-depth spiritual awareness and perception.
Oh I forgot to come back to VPW's distinction between a resurrection and a rising.
I'm going from memory, so if anyone still has Are the Dead Alive Now, feel free to chime in.
We know Revelation teaches that there will be a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. But where does the Gathering Together fit in? Well, the GC is not a resurrection at all, because even though all those people are getting up from the dead, they're joining people who are living, so it's just a rising, not a resurrection.
See?
As opposed to the first and second resurrections, which feature formerly dead people... also... joining... the living... wait.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one as I don't understand it but here is a preterist explanation of "RISE".
(It took me a long time to believe some of the preterist views) this one is taking me longer...
I'm so glad that if I ever heard this cr@p [resurrection/rising], I've forgotten it. But likely, I never heard of it. TWI had found some other atom to try splitting, with nonsensical purpose.
If there's a resurrection/rising, or rapture, or whatever, then it's beyond my puny capabilities to affect it. Therefore, I will expend my energies on something more useful in the here and now...
... helping the disadvantaged, the homeless, those with little in this life. Those with too much trouble in this life. Those with no hope and nothing to look forward to.
Recommended Posts
Raf
Just listened to the beginning and it reminded me of the ridiculous distinction VPW tried to draw between a resurrection and a rising.
You guys remember that nonsense?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
No. But hold on while I make some tea. I can hardly wait for this!
Edited by Nathan_JrIs the distinction self-interpreting?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Make some popcorn while you're at it, this may take a while.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
I appreciate how he shows the destructiveness of the false rapture doctrine.
What is bothersome to me, though, is how he condemns the unjust killings from 2 wars (one that is currently ongoing and a nuclear one happening quite possibly in the future) yet he has no problem with the 70 000 Israelites he mentions who were killed by God with a plague nor with the last war he says is certain to happen. As he puts it, “God’s fiery judgment at the end of time – it is a heavenly fire, not an earthly one. At that day, the last day, the end of time, there will be no survivors (which he states 4 times).”
Although he uses the bible to preach that there be peace, not war, in the world today, he is very political against Zionism.
Edited by CharityChanged first sentence and added last one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
70K? Amateur stats.
In the 14th century, a bubonic plague wiped out half of Europe’s population - 50 million!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
God must have been very p$ssed with someone or something to have killed so many that time.
Then there will be the 7 plagues in Revelation to look forward to - thank goodness though for the gathering together which will save Christians from this specific wrath of God - oh wait - there will be no rapture.
Edited by CharityAdded last sentence
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
We'll all be walking streets of gold, smoking 50 cent cigars.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Steely Dan?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Nope, VPW said this in one of his "classes". He was presenting this as a sarcastic interpretation of mainstream Christianity's doctrine on the subject.
I wouldn't doubt, though, some versions of this have appeared in non-TWI contexts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Ha! That was my initial reflex, but I hadn’t yet SIT this morning, so I couldn’t be sure if it was revelation or just experiential intuition or phenomenon. Plus, the answer only came to me once, not twice. An unestablished revelation is no revelation at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
You can say that again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Wouldn't that defeat the point being made?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
There haven't been many points of view made on the specific topic itself considering the sub-forum it's on. If anyone who views this thread (195 so far) would like to discuss if there will be a rapture or not, please do.
What I've seen asked on podcasts I've watched are these 3 questions. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Do you care if it's true or not?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Sure, but if you say it again, it becomes....Oh, wait a minute.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Established
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Uh huh, Uh huh.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
For a preterist view of the 7 plagues and related, here is one commentary:
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-16-a-preterist-commentary/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Part of the process is to learn other viewpoints, and that takes some time. Remember in PFAL VPW dissuaded us from reading commentaries; but how the heck can we know what else is out there? I'd like to review everything now...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Oh I forgot to come back to VPW's distinction between a resurrection and a rising.
I'm going from memory, so if anyone still has Are the Dead Alive Now, feel free to chime in.
We know Revelation teaches that there will be a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. But where does the Gathering Together fit in? Well, the GC is not a resurrection at all, because even though all those people are getting up from the dead, they're joining people who are living, so it's just a rising, not a resurrection.
See?
As opposed to the first and second resurrections, which feature formerly dead people... also... joining... the living... wait.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I still have the book, but I moved recently and it's packed away, amongst the multitude of boxes of otherwise useless mementos.
Maybe I'll look for it...or maybe not. I have a lot on my plate at the moment.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
I see.
A glove here, a hand there. What accuracy! Such in-depth spiritual awareness and perception.
mmmph
(Math and stuff.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one as I don't understand it but here is a preterist explanation of "RISE".
(It took me a long time to believe some of the preterist views) this one is taking me longer...
https://www.google.com/search?q=dead+in+Christ+will+rise+first+preterist+view&sca_esv=5d5dc4b0a4716fb1&sxsrf=AHTn8zrZ4LMBgoHb-QAzUjFVYR9eJEXNVw%3A1740442538767&source=hp&ei=qgu9Z_fZLKyv5NoPrPCN8Aw&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ70ZutvU5p4uv40zThIflar2qh5G3-Gp&ved=0ahUKEwj31pfaxd2LAxWsF1kFHSx4A84Q4dUDCBo&uact=5&oq=dead+in+Christ+will+rise+first+preterist+view&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I'm so glad that if I ever heard this cr@p [resurrection/rising], I've forgotten it. But likely, I never heard of it. TWI had found some other atom to try splitting, with nonsensical purpose.
If there's a resurrection/rising, or rapture, or whatever, then it's beyond my puny capabilities to affect it. Therefore, I will expend my energies on something more useful in the here and now...
... helping the disadvantaged, the homeless, those with little in this life. Those with too much trouble in this life. Those with no hope and nothing to look forward to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.