Greasespot Cafe always used to come up first!! Looks like the cafe isn't so popular now. Just the old-timers left.
If TWI is still going, there are still going to be people who need what the Cafe has to offer. Need to boost our profile a bit. How?
Hmmm....good observation. They own the name and the org, net, and com and may own others, including domains that redirect to the org or com site. Other Way friendly and influenced churches, operations, bureaus, remote offices and ministries and businesses world wide that the Way Nash recognizes and permits can use their name, and products too which builds brand strength and recognition. I'd also assume they've figured out SEO by now and have gotten past having everyone's kids advise them on technology and have gotten some professional guidance. Still the ol' World Wide Web recognizes usage so all the Facebook and other platforms they use with their name add to it.
So technically they should come up first if you search their name(s). But if you search - is the way international a legitimate church? or is The Way International a cult? or what does the Way International really do on that farm? or my friend took a class by the Way International and now won't talk to me and needs money help even though he/she talks all the time about abundant life and needs being met and should I be concerned? or any number of other questions, different results will come up, including some of theirs. Sometimes. (it's the same if you search for the words Donald Trump, lots of current links come up, wikipedia, other government links etc, so you'd have to use a different term if you want to reinforce how much people love him or hate him, etc) (********* Please don't start any part of this as political, I know that's not allowed and I don't want anyone to lose their shit over seeing his name, especially an admin who can put it all on lockdown, so to clarify this is NOT political, just what I hope will be an easy to understand comparative example. Inset any other name if it serves better, thanks ************)
If GS Cafeteria wants more face time in search results without spending any money it will have to get some content up, some currently dated uploads, some clicks and click throughs, maybe cross pollinate some links to books and writers content that will build usage up.
But search results will first try to answer specific questions, well, specifically. Try the question - is the Way a dangerous cult? - and see what comes up.
It was inevitable - retention was terrible on their stats for years, people leaving, law suits, they had to keep their heads down and bide their time, and for the old crew that was about all they seemed to really want to do, that and get even with anyone that opposed them. But that was then - the last big walkout a few years ago may have been the last of the old timers who would have been competing with themselves for position (which is largely what I think they were all about the last 24 + years or so since they dumped Craig, who himself ascended to the throne of the Way having beat back some of his peers)
What's left can almost tell a new narrative, one that still gives a nod to Dr VPW and PFAL ("PFALT" ) but can take the position that they aren't the bad guys, it's not your pappy's Way anymore and now that all the riff raff has left, it's a clean house and everything's fine and back to normal, even more normal than it EVER was.
But to the question, their active presence online has brought them to the forefront. My suggestion, one way to get GS up front, continue going through old links and revitalize them, maybe add a comment that's current, get some search words pinging to the content. Try an seo optimization search, and proceed.
Cheers and a grand '25 ahead for all! Stay safe and sound!
First 2 paragraphs are much as twi might describe itself.
Third paragraph:
They also adopted a hierarchical educational structurewhich many say is used to exercise excessive control over its members. "The Foundational Class on Power for Abundant Living," serves as an entry point into a system that encourages participants to climb a ladder of increasing commitment and involvement, astructure often compared to pyramid schemes [not unlike Scientology]. Members who commit to the Way have reported severe sleep deprivation, isolation from families, and other forms of control from church leaders, which have led them to drop out of school, quit taking medicine, or prepare for a prophesized nuclear holocaust.
Some of their worst abuses started to come to light after former members launched lawsuits against the organization. In addition to concerns about psychological manipulation and financial control, former members testified about a widespread coordination of up to fifty leaders[aka conspiracy] to assist in and coverup the sexual abuse of female members at the hands of the presidents and high-ranking leaders. Court documents and media sources reported thatgirls as young asthirteenare shown pornography and trainedinhow to provide sexual gratification while being taught thata woman's purpose is to give sexual pleasure to men. Victims revealed how leaders usedthe guilt of disobeying God and fears of death tocoerce them into submission. Meanwhile other trusted leaders told them howprivileged they were to be able to satisfy such great men of God.
At it's peak, The Way was considered the second largest cult in America, with up to 40,000 members. While membership declined significantly in the 1990s, the organization still exists today, remainingcuriouslyquietabout their abusive history.
Excellent posts although they seem to be about twi from the past. What do we know about twi in the present - what is taught in their classes now, how are their programs being run today? IOW, are they still following many of the old twi's footsteps?
But for the most part, it's hard to know what twi is really like unless GSC becomes more inviting to their current members. Maybe creating a new forum aimed at The Way International Today might attract new members. It would not have the same purpose as the current About the Way forum which has mainly focused on the problems of the past. The threads instead could be about asking questions and inviting discussions about topics of interest on twi's website today (e.g., Way magazine articles, ROA 2025, books, etc).
To avoid a repeat of the incessant arguing that went on in the past with posters like Mike, it would be more aimed at helping current members work through their beliefs and concerns using critical thinking.
Such a forum may never take off, but it might be worth a try. Yes/no?
Probably most of the old head honchos have died or permanently dropped out of sight. RFR is shortly going to be 85. Bill Greene is still around, and on the board of directors. Donna and Craig a bit younger. Others have departed completely and either set up their own show or gone to CFFM or R&R.
Vern I remember as being a really sweet man - but that was 35-40 years ago and who knows what has happened since? The younger folk, such as Oldies references above, may know absolutely nothing about the history as we know it. How would they? TWI isn't going to say anything!
It's not so much what they teach - it's what they do. And how they do it.
WHAT they teach is as problematic as HOW (H-O-W) they teach it and what they DO with it once they've got it...
I agree. It was after studying tithing in the bible for myself and knowing vpw's "Christians Should be Prosperous" book wasn't accurate, as well as being reproved by my country coordinator for thinking I knew more than vpw when I went to talk to him about it, that I left twi for good after 11 years. It was both the tithing doctrine itself and the cc's arrogant and belittling attitude towards me that showed it was loyalty to wierwille that really mattered.
I think it's the cognitive dissonance that results from believing a doctrine and seeing the opposite behavior of the one teaching it that can lead someone to question the teacher and their words. That's what led to the deconstruction of my belief in the bible.
Greasespot Cafe always used to come up first!! Looks like the cafe isn't so popular now. Just the old-timers left.
If TWI is still going, there are still going to be people who need what the Cafe has to offer.Need to boost our profile a bit. How?
On 2/9/2025 at 3:21 PM, Charity said:
But for the most part, it's hard to know what twi is really like [today] unless GSC becomes more inviting to their current members. Maybe creating a new forum aimed at The Way International Today might attract new members. It would not have the same purpose as the current About the Way forum which has mainly focused on the problems of the past. The threads instead could be about asking questions and inviting discussions about topics of interest on twi's website today (e.g., Way magazine articles, ROA 2025, books, etc).
Such a forum may never take off, but it might be worth a try. Yes/no?
2 hours ago, Rocky said:
Let me put it this way, with many first hand records of abuse by twi leadership, if you were in their shoes, would you feel welcome here?
I'm not sure who "their" is referring to above but what I was referring to was a new additional forum that would reach out to new twi's followers who are having doubts about twi's present-day doctrines/dogmas and practices. As well as being able to search through the hundreds of threads in "About the Way" for topics of interest, a new and fresh forum would be another option for them to come and discuss specific matters. An inviting description of the forum would explain this.
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
I really appreciate your post penworks, especially your last paragraph. It would be nice if it could remain available to see and read instead of it being replaced by the next thread that is created on this forum.
I really appreciate your post penworks, especially your last paragraph. It would be nice if it could remain available to see and read instead of it being replaced by the next thread that is created on this forum.
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Twinky
Greasespot Cafe always used to come up first!! Looks like the cafe isn't so popular now. Just the old-timers left.
If TWI is still going, there are still going to be people who need what the Cafe has to offer. Need to boost our profile a bit. How?
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socks
Hmmm....good observation. They own the name and the org, net, and com and may own others, including domains that redirect to the org or com site. Other Way friendly and influenced churches, operations, bureaus, remote offices and ministries and businesses world wide that the Way Nash recognizes and permits can use their name, and products too which builds brand strength and recognition. I'd also assume they've figured out SEO by now and have gotten past having everyone's kids advise them on technology and have gotten some professional guidance. Still the ol' World Wide Web recognizes usage so all the Facebook and other platforms they use with their name add to it.
So technically they should come up first if you search their name(s). But if you search - is the way international a legitimate church? or is The Way International a cult? or what does the Way International really do on that farm? or my friend took a class by the Way International and now won't talk to me and needs money help even though he/she talks all the time about abundant life and needs being met and should I be concerned? or any number of other questions, different results will come up, including some of theirs. Sometimes. (it's the same if you search for the words Donald Trump, lots of current links come up, wikipedia, other government links etc, so you'd have to use a different term if you want to reinforce how much people love him or hate him, etc) (********* Please don't start any part of this as political, I know that's not allowed and I don't want anyone to lose their shit over seeing his name, especially an admin who can put it all on lockdown, so to clarify this is NOT political, just what I hope will be an easy to understand comparative example. Inset any other name if it serves better, thanks ************)
If GS Cafeteria wants more face time in search results without spending any money it will have to get some content up, some currently dated uploads, some clicks and click throughs, maybe cross pollinate some links to books and writers content that will build usage up.
But search results will first try to answer specific questions, well, specifically. Try the question - is the Way a dangerous cult? - and see what comes up.
It was inevitable - retention was terrible on their stats for years, people leaving, law suits, they had to keep their heads down and bide their time, and for the old crew that was about all they seemed to really want to do, that and get even with anyone that opposed them. But that was then - the last big walkout a few years ago may have been the last of the old timers who would have been competing with themselves for position (which is largely what I think they were all about the last 24 + years or so since they dumped Craig, who himself ascended to the throne of the Way having beat back some of his peers)
What's left can almost tell a new narrative, one that still gives a nod to Dr VPW and PFAL ("PFALT"
) but can take the position that they aren't the bad guys, it's not your pappy's Way anymore and now that all the riff raff has left, it's a clean house and everything's fine and back to normal, even more normal than it EVER was. 
But to the question, their active presence online has brought them to the forefront. My suggestion, one way to get GS up front, continue going through old links and revitalize them, maybe add a comment that's current, get some search words pinging to the content. Try an seo optimization search, and proceed.
Cheers and a grand '25 ahead for all! Stay safe and sound!
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Rocky
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=is+the+way+international+a+dangerous+cult&atb=v353-1&t=chromentp&ia=web
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Rocky
https://www.cultfacts.com/cults/the-way-international
First 2 paragraphs are much as twi might describe itself.
Third paragraph:
They also adopted a hierarchical educational structure which many say is used to exercise excessive control over its members. "The Foundational Class on Power for Abundant Living," serves as an entry point into a system that encourages participants to climb a ladder of increasing commitment and involvement, a structure often compared to pyramid schemes [not unlike Scientology]. Members who commit to the Way have reported severe sleep deprivation, isolation from families, and other forms of control from church leaders, which have led them to drop out of school, quit taking medicine, or prepare for a prophesized nuclear holocaust.
Some of their worst abuses started to come to light after former members launched lawsuits against the organization. In addition to concerns about psychological manipulation and financial control, former members testified about a widespread coordination of up to fifty leaders[aka conspiracy] to assist in and coverup the sexual abuse of female members at the hands of the presidents and high-ranking leaders. Court documents and media sources reported that girls as young as thirteen are shown pornography and trained in how to provide sexual gratification while being taught that a woman's purpose is to give sexual pleasure to men. Victims revealed how leaders used the guilt of disobeying God and fears of death to coerce them into submission. Meanwhile other trusted leaders told them how privileged they were to be able to satisfy such great men of God.
At it's peak, The Way was considered the second largest cult in America, with up to 40,000 members. While membership declined significantly in the 1990s, the organization still exists today, remaining curiously quiet about their abusive history.
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Rocky
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Charity
Excellent posts although they seem to be about twi from the past. What do we know about twi in the present - what is taught in their classes now, how are their programs being run today? IOW, are they still following many of the old twi's footsteps?
(When I looked on The Way International Bookstore, they still sell books about vpw which paint him in a "good light" such as Born Again to Serve,
Faithful Bridge Builders Of The Way and Life Lines.)
But for the most part, it's hard to know what twi is really like unless GSC becomes more inviting to their current members. Maybe creating a new forum aimed at The Way International Today might attract new members. It would not have the same purpose as the current About the Way forum which has mainly focused on the problems of the past. The threads instead could be about asking questions and inviting discussions about topics of interest on twi's website today (e.g., Way magazine articles, ROA 2025, books, etc).
To avoid a repeat of the incessant arguing that went on in the past with posters like Mike, it would be more aimed at helping current members work through their beliefs and concerns using critical thinking.
Such a forum may never take off, but it might be worth a try. Yes/no?
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oldiesman
This is TWI's most recent Sunday Night Service:
https://www.theway.org/sunday-teaching-services/current/
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Twinky
Probably most of the old head honchos have died or permanently dropped out of sight. RFR is shortly going to be 85. Bill Greene is still around, and on the board of directors. Donna and Craig a bit younger. Others have departed completely and either set up their own show or gone to CFFM or R&R.
Vern I remember as being a really sweet man - but that was 35-40 years ago and who knows what has happened since? The younger folk, such as Oldies references above, may know absolutely nothing about the history as we know it. How would they? TWI isn't going to say anything!
It's not so much what they teach - it's what they do. And how they do it.
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Nathan_Jr
And beleeving is what they do.
Either you amputate some fingers or beleeve the glove to fit. Whatever you do, you gotta MAKE it fit.
I didn’t say it. Victor did.
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Nathan_Jr
WHAT they teach is as problematic as HOW (H-O-W) they teach it and what they DO with it once they've got it...
Bibliolatry
”You can’t go beyond what you’ve been taught.”
Jesus's bastard bar mitzvah
Four crucified
Six denials
Fantastic zoological claims about cocks in antiquity
Eve the lesbian
Thorns
Glossolalia
"It doesn't matter what you do unless you believe it does." -VPW
Greek and Hebrew can be mistranslated in order to MAKE it fit. (See maxim above)
Holocaust denial or minimization
The unforgivable sin...
...and several hundred others.
Edited by Nathan_JrSnow. So much snow…
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Charity
I agree. It was after studying tithing in the bible for myself and knowing vpw's "Christians Should be Prosperous" book wasn't accurate, as well as being reproved by my country coordinator for thinking I knew more than vpw when I went to talk to him about it, that I left twi for good after 11 years. It was both the tithing doctrine itself and the cc's arrogant and belittling attitude towards me that showed it was loyalty to wierwille that really mattered.
I think it's the cognitive dissonance that results from believing a doctrine and seeing the opposite behavior of the one teaching it that can lead someone to question the teacher and their words. That's what led to the deconstruction of my belief in the bible.
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waysider
Oh, sure. It's a cult. But, it's the BEST cult. Am I right or what?
Good, better, best
Never let it rest.
Until your good is better
And your cult is the best
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Rocky
Oh my, Charity! Without purging from GSC all of the things so many have said about twi over the last couple of decades? I can't imagine.
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Charity
Hi Rocky, I would never want anything purged from GSC so I need help understanding what you mean. Thanks!
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Rocky
Let me put it this way, with many first hand records of abuse by twi leadership, if you were in their shoes, would you feel welcome here?
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Charity
I'm not sure who "their" is referring to above but what I was referring to was a new additional forum that would reach out to new twi's followers who are having doubts about twi's present-day doctrines/dogmas and practices. As well as being able to search through the hundreds of threads in "About the Way" for topics of interest, a new and fresh forum would be another option for them to come and discuss specific matters. An inviting description of the forum would explain this.
What do you think?
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penworks
Isn't it true that the current Way organization still lauds the corrupt VPW as their founding "man of God?" About the Founder - Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
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Charity
I really appreciate your post penworks, especially your last paragraph. It would be nice if it could remain available to see and read instead of it being replaced by the next thread that is created on this forum.
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penworks
I'll post it in a couple other places here today.
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Rocky
People who come here wanting to know what TWI is all about... maybe a child or friend... or themselves.
In addition to Penworks' insight from her first hand experience, I offer these resources. https://freedomofmind.com/ https://BITEmodel.com
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