Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health, struck up a long-distance friendship with Daniel Nieto at a time when Nieto considered himself an atheist. (Texas Baptists Photo)
After deciding the church didn’t have answers to his many questions about spiritual matters and the soul, Daniel Nieto declared himself an atheist at age 15.
From that point, he dove into YouTube video debates between Christians and atheists, never encountering anyone who could change his opinion.
“My favorite debaters were atheists, and they made sense to me at the time. I knew there were geniuses who were Christians, but I felt like they were wrong,” said Nieto, a 32-year-old resident of Bakersfield, Calif. “I was debating online all the time, but no one could answer my questions.”
In late 2021, Nieto watched a debate between Aron Ra, an atheist activist, and Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health. Expecting the same results he always had experienced—Christians with weak arguments being blown away by the strong-spoken atheists—Nieto was surprised to see the opposite outcome.
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before. It blew my mind a little, and I feel like Aron embarrassed himself in that debate,” recalled Nieto, noting he watched the debate at least a dozen times.
Please note this is not a political discussion. Read the article before commenting, and stick to the topic as raised WITHOUT venturing into the political angle.
Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health, struck up a long-distance friendship with Daniel Nieto at a time when Nieto considered himself an atheist. (Texas Baptists Photo)
After deciding the church didn’t have answers to his many questions about spiritual matters and the soul, Daniel Nieto declared himself an atheist at age 15.
From that point, he dove into YouTube video debates between Christians and atheists, never encountering anyone who could change his opinion.
“My favorite debaters were atheists, and they made sense to me at the time. I knew there were geniuses who were Christians, but I felt like they were wrong,” said Nieto, a 32-year-old resident of Bakersfield, Calif. “I was debating online all the time, but no one could answer my questions.”
In late 2021, Nieto watched a debate between Aron Ra, an atheist activist, and Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health. Expecting the same results he always had experienced—Christians with weak arguments being blown away by the strong-spoken atheists—Nieto was surprised to see the opposite outcome.
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before. It blew my mind a little, and I feel like Aron embarrassed himself in that debate,” recalled Nieto, noting he watched the debate at least a dozen times.
The article does show that atheists can change their beliefs and become a Christians just as Christians can change their beliefs and become an atheist.
Quotes of Nieto from the article:
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before."
“Eric was hitting me with the concepts and philosophies that Aron didn’t know about."
"I’m so glad I never gave up and threw myself into the fire of philosophy to learn more.”
("Fire of philosophy" here does not come with a definition. Google offers some but who knows if they are what Nieto meant.)
“I’ve come to the conclusion that Christianity is the only way I’m going to make an impact, spread the truth and try to save the world."(Common Christian talk)
“I feel like I have a different mission in life, and that’s to go down that philosophical road and keep looking for God.”
~~~~~~~~~
Hernandez has done a couple of debates about the "soul" and one of the Texas Baptists' statements of belief is that they believe in "Soul competency, accountability, and responsibility."
Without learning more about how Hernandez integrates philosophy into Christianity, it's impossible to know why Nieto says Hernandez answered his questions about spiritual matter and the soul that no church had ever been able to do.
Lots of words but not much said in the way of information. it's more of a glimpse at the inner thoughts of individual characters. Well, that's OK, I suppose, but I didn't really learn anything about the topic, itself.
The article does show that atheists can change their beliefs and become a Christians just as Christians can change their beliefs and become an atheist.
Quotes of Nieto from the article:
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before."
“Eric was hitting me with the concepts and philosophies that Aron didn’t know about."
"I’m so glad I never gave up and threw myself into the fire of philosophy to learn more.”
("Fire of philosophy" here does not come with a definition. Google offers some but who knows if they are what Nieto meant.)
“I’ve come to the conclusion that Christianity is the only way I’m going to make an impact, spread the truth and try to save the world."(Common Christian talk)
“I feel like I have a different mission in life, and that’s to go down that philosophical road and keep looking for God.”
~~~~~~~~~
Hernandez has done a couple of debates about the "soul" and one of the Texas Baptists' statements of belief is that they believe in "Soul competency, accountability, and responsibility."
Without learning more about how Hernandez integrates philosophy into Christianity, it's impossible to know why Nieto says Hernandez answered his questions about spiritual matter and the soul that no church had ever been able to do.
You'll find that is a common theme in these articles. The atheist was declared the loser of the debate without a single example of a failed argument or a successful rebuttal, based on the response of a single person.
Being curious myself, I have googled both the term and Hernandez (who declares he is one) and could not find a definition or explanation. My conclusion is that this "title" is simply one Hernandez invented for himself and may be explained as follows.
Millennials were born between 1981 and 1996.
A 2019 article titled "In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace" says "Data from Pew [Research Center] between 2020 and 2021 reported that nearly half of millennials surveyed (49%) described themselves as Christians, the most of all religions, another 10% identify with non-Christian faiths and four in 10 now identify as religious 'nones.'
I'm guessing that Hernandez, who is a Baptist apologist, sees himself as a specialist in targeting millennials in order to get them "saved" such as Raf's second post about the conversion of the atheist Daniel Nieto shows. Why would he want to do this?
One reason might be that getting 28-43 year olds converted increases the probability that their children will be brought up in religious homes and as a result, reverse the increase of "religiously unaffiliated" which has consecutively occurred over the past 5 generations.
You'll find that is a common theme in these articles. The atheist was declared the loser of the debate without a single example of a failed argument or a successful rebuttal, based on the response of a single person.
Oh well.
I wondered about this when I read the article "Relationship with apologist changes heart of atheist," so I tried to find the debate Daniel Nieto mentioned in that article. It looks like Aron Ra (atheist) and Eric Hernandez (Christian apologist) have done two debates; one on faith and one on the soul. I think it's the debate on faith that may be the one in question. It seems to be well known because there is a portion where Aron Ra is accused of "losing his mind over a simple question and yelling at Hernandez." A very popular 16-minute clip on YouTube focuses on this portion and uses gimmicks to make fun of Aron Ra. Hernandez shows it at the top of his home page for Eric Hernandez Ministries. It all just looks like a PR promotion for Hernandez.
Aron Ra seems to discuss this debate in an hour-and-a-half video which I have only started to watch in order to find out what was said to be wrong about his definition of faith. I also want to see how Hernandez operates in his role as an apologist.
As some Christians have become evolutionary creationists because they can no longer deny the science of evolution, I wonder if Hernandez’s teachings on biblical philosophy is a way to get around or legitimize the growing awareness of the gospels being linked to Homer and Paul’s epistles to Plato, Socrates and Aristotle.
Here are some quotes from Hernandez’s webpage “Do Christians Need Philosophy?”
The greatest commandment in scripture tells us to love God with all of our heart, strength, and mind (which literally means your intellectual capacity and faculty of understanding). The first thing to note is that we are commanded to exercise our faculty of understanding as a way of honoring God, being made in His image, as a reflection of His intellect.
As a Christian, or as merely a person with a mind, we need tools to help guide our thinking. Philosophy and theology are vital tools that God has given us to exercise such guidance.
And as a side note, could we not say that the Holy Spirit has guided us to engage in proper philosophy? The issue here isn’t with philosophy, per say, but in engaging in proper philosophy.
We should not think of philosophy as man trying to make up stuff to sound smart. That is what Christians who have bad philosophy tend to do. Philosophy literally comes from the words “philo”, the love of, and “Sophia”, meaning wisdom. So it literally means the love of wisdom, and a quick look at the book of proverbs clearly tells us much about wisdom.
Hence, if we have good philosophy, our thinking will be properly guided when we engage in virtually every other field of study. Especially and most importantly, our theology- the study of God.
Colossians 2:8...The context of this verse here is Paul speaking to Christians who have had people attempting to persuade them using “hollow and deceptive” philosophy. The key in this verse is to avoid the BAD philosophy, and not simply to avoid philosophy altogether.
Lastly, I’d like to address the view that some Christians take by saying, “the gospel is simple, we don’t need philosophy to understand it”. The error again is that this is not only false, but un-biblical. How can we have the audacity to assume that our own thinking is so precise and proper, that we can afford to be intellectually lazy and neglect the very tools(such as philosophy) God gave us to help understand all that He is? Are we really that prideful to admit we don’t know it all and need help? Or are we too lazy and find it easier to simply say, “the Holy Spirit will just tell me.” This is not how Christ lived his life, because he himself grew in wisdom (luke 2:52), and in claiming otherwise, we make ourselves out to be better than Jesus. Such assertions make these people hard to be taken seriously.
Philosophy is a gift from God, and a gift that will enrich our lives, our minds, our worship, and our outlook on who God is. This is what it means to love God with our minds.
Philosophy is a gift from God, and a gift that will enrich our lives, our minds, our worship, and our outlook on who God is. This is what it means to love God with our minds.
Again, I feel like I'm late to the party. I'm finding out that Hernandez's view about "good" philosophy being a necessary (or at least a helpful) tool to help Christians understand life and God better is not that uncommon among scholars and some ministries. Just goes to show that up until a couple of months ago, I was still holding onto vp's catchphrase "it's the word, the word and nothing but the word" (or something like that).
I guess the bible is fair game for ministers, preachers, and believers to come to their own truth. The likelihood is zero, though, that anyone will find a "truth" that takes all the guesswork and inconsistencies out of God and his promises for our lives in the here and now (IMHO).
I'm going to pull a quote from the otherwise overtly political article "The God delusion of secular liberals."
Quote
By now it’s a cliché that liberalism in the Anglosphere has become a religion, whether or not its adherents know it. But less often remarked is a fact somewhat in tension with this claim: namely, that its worshippers get to be minor gods too, making up the moral rules themselves.
Needless to say, this is the kind of obnoxious projection that makes it impossible to have a constructive dialogue with people who are incapable of recognizing simple concepts.
Simple concept number 1: Some people don't worship anyone or anything, no matter what your holy book says. And you don't get to define worship into existence. Worship is not the same thing as honor or respect or prioritization. And for the love of hate, atheists don't worship themselves. We don't think highly enough of ourselves to do such a thing.
2. Morality does not come from religion. If it dud, the expression "BuT iT wAs AnOtHeR tImE" would not exist. The evolving morality of any society often leaves religious tenets way behind. The Bible is less forgiving of cheeseburgers than it is of slave ownership.
The Bible is less forgiving of cheeseburgers than it is of slave ownership.
and shellfish?
Leviticus 11:9-11
New International Version
9 “‘Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean.
Both my sons are baptized, as is my daughter. I take no issue with it. It's a cultural rite of passage and in this case it's more for my wife than it is for the kids.
I feel like some people think this is such a huge Gotcha! As if I want my kids baptized just in case I'm wrong about Yahweh. Let me assure you, if that were my concern I would spend a lot less time openly declaring my belief that he is an emotionally unstable sociopath with a raging case of insecurity and an unhealthy need for unceasing affirmation.
This is a gish gallop of an article. So many ridiculous statements fired in rapid succession. Good for a laugh. Anyone want to discuss?
Tempting, considering the author's statement, "Accordingly, the celebrity atheist scientist could certainly take a look at the abundance of Near Death Experiences, the Shroud of Turin, bloody Eucharist hosts, and the Guadalupe Tilma. All of these supernatural items have been examined by numerous scientists from around the world, who have concluded that only a miracle from God could have caused them."
But, I don't have the stomach for the article and its links at the moment, so unfortunately my funny bone will remain untickled for now. It'd be interesting to see a discussion develop though.
Both my sons are baptized, as is my daughter. I take no issue with it. It's a cultural rite of passage and in this case it's more for my wife than it is for the kids.
I feel like some people think this is such a huge Gotcha! As if I want my kids baptized just in case I'm wrong about Yahweh. Let me assure you, if that were my concern I would spend a lot less time openly declaring my belief that he is an emotionally unstable sociopath with a raging case of insecurity and an unhealthy need for unceasing affirmation.
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Raf
Relationship with apologist changes heart of atheist.
Relationship with apologist changes heart of atheist
| SOURCE: TEXAS BAPTISTS
Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health, struck up a long-distance friendship with Daniel Nieto at a time when Nieto considered himself an atheist. (Texas Baptists Photo)
Teresa Young
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After deciding the church didn’t have answers to his many questions about spiritual matters and the soul, Daniel Nieto declared himself an atheist at age 15.
From that point, he dove into YouTube video debates between Christians and atheists, never encountering anyone who could change his opinion.
“My favorite debaters were atheists, and they made sense to me at the time. I knew there were geniuses who were Christians, but I felt like they were wrong,” said Nieto, a 32-year-old resident of Bakersfield, Calif. “I was debating online all the time, but no one could answer my questions.”
In late 2021, Nieto watched a debate between Aron Ra, an atheist activist, and Eric Hernandez, apologetics lead and millennial specialist with Texas Baptists’ Center for Church Health. Expecting the same results he always had experienced—Christians with weak arguments being blown away by the strong-spoken atheists—Nieto was surprised to see the opposite outcome.
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before. It blew my mind a little, and I feel like Aron embarrassed himself in that debate,” recalled Nieto, noting he watched the debate at least a dozen times.
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Raf
Ronald Reagan's personal argument for intelligent design.
Please note this is not a political discussion. Read the article before commenting, and stick to the topic as raised WITHOUT venturing into the political angle.
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Raf
Into the mind of a convert.
Not really impressive to me, but your thoughts may vary.
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Charity
The article does show that atheists can change their beliefs and become a Christians just as Christians can change their beliefs and become an atheist.
Quotes of Nieto from the article:
“I’m really into philosophy, and when I started hearing Eric talk, he was pointing out things I’d never thought about before."
“Eric was hitting me with the concepts and philosophies that Aron didn’t know about."
"I’m so glad I never gave up and threw myself into the fire of philosophy to learn more.”
("Fire of philosophy" here does not come with a definition. Google offers some but who knows if they are what Nieto meant.)
“I’ve come to the conclusion that Christianity is the only way I’m going to make an impact, spread the truth and try to save the world." (Common Christian talk)
“I feel like I have a different mission in life, and that’s to go down that philosophical road and keep looking for God.”
~~~~~~~~~
Hernandez has done a couple of debates about the "soul" and one of the Texas Baptists' statements of belief is that they believe in "Soul competency, accountability, and responsibility."
Without learning more about how Hernandez integrates philosophy into Christianity, it's impossible to know why Nieto says Hernandez answered his questions about spiritual matter and the soul that no church had ever been able to do.
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waysider
Lots of words but not much said in the way of information. it's more of a glimpse at the inner thoughts of individual characters. Well, that's OK, I suppose, but I didn't really learn anything about the topic, itself.
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Raf
You'll find that is a common theme in these articles. The atheist was declared the loser of the debate without a single example of a failed argument or a successful rebuttal, based on the response of a single person.
Oh well.
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Nathan_Jr
What's a millennial specialist?
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waysider
This guy
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Charity
Being curious myself, I have googled both the term and Hernandez (who declares he is one) and could not find a definition or explanation. My conclusion is that this "title" is simply one Hernandez invented for himself and may be explained as follows.
Millennials were born between 1981 and 1996.
A 2019 article titled "In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace" says "Data from Pew [Research Center] between 2020 and 2021 reported that nearly half of millennials surveyed (49%) described themselves as Christians, the most of all religions, another 10% identify with non-Christian faiths and four in 10 now identify as religious 'nones.'
I'm guessing that Hernandez, who is a Baptist apologist, sees himself as a specialist in targeting millennials in order to get them "saved" such as Raf's second post about the conversion of the atheist Daniel Nieto shows. Why would he want to do this?
One reason might be that getting 28-43 year olds converted increases the probability that their children will be brought up in religious homes and as a result, reverse the increase of "religiously unaffiliated" which has consecutively occurred over the past 5 generations.
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Charity
I wondered about this when I read the article "Relationship with apologist changes heart of atheist," so I tried to find the debate Daniel Nieto mentioned in that article. It looks like Aron Ra (atheist) and Eric Hernandez (Christian apologist) have done two debates; one on faith and one on the soul. I think it's the debate on faith that may be the one in question. It seems to be well known because there is a portion where Aron Ra is accused of "losing his mind over a simple question and yelling at Hernandez." A very popular 16-minute clip on YouTube focuses on this portion and uses gimmicks to make fun of Aron Ra. Hernandez shows it at the top of his home page for Eric Hernandez Ministries. It all just looks like a PR promotion for Hernandez.
Aron Ra seems to discuss this debate in an hour-and-a-half video which I have only started to watch in order to find out what was said to be wrong about his definition of faith. I also want to see how Hernandez operates in his role as an apologist.
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Charity
Regarding the article " Relationship with apologist changes heart of atheist."
As some Christians have become evolutionary creationists because they can no longer deny the science of evolution, I wonder if Hernandez’s teachings on biblical philosophy is a way to get around or legitimize the growing awareness of the gospels being linked to Homer and Paul’s epistles to Plato, Socrates and Aristotle.
Here are some quotes from Hernandez’s webpage “Do Christians Need Philosophy?”
http://www.erichernandezministries.com/christians-need-philosophy-question-20/
The greatest commandment in scripture tells us to love God with all of our heart, strength, and mind (which literally means your intellectual capacity and faculty of understanding). The first thing to note is that we are commanded to exercise our faculty of understanding as a way of honoring God, being made in His image, as a reflection of His intellect.
As a Christian, or as merely a person with a mind, we need tools to help guide our thinking. Philosophy and theology are vital tools that God has given us to exercise such guidance.
And as a side note, could we not say that the Holy Spirit has guided us to engage in proper philosophy? The issue here isn’t with philosophy, per say, but in engaging in proper philosophy.
We should not think of philosophy as man trying to make up stuff to sound smart. That is what Christians who have bad philosophy tend to do. Philosophy literally comes from the words “philo”, the love of, and “Sophia”, meaning wisdom. So it literally means the love of wisdom, and a quick look at the book of proverbs clearly tells us much about wisdom.
Hence, if we have good philosophy, our thinking will be properly guided when we engage in virtually every other field of study. Especially and most importantly, our theology- the study of God.
Colossians 2:8...The context of this verse here is Paul speaking to Christians who have had people attempting to persuade them using “hollow and deceptive” philosophy. The key in this verse is to avoid the BAD philosophy, and not simply to avoid philosophy altogether.
Lastly, I’d like to address the view that some Christians take by saying, “the gospel is simple, we don’t need philosophy to understand it”. The error again is that this is not only false, but un-biblical. How can we have the audacity to assume that our own thinking is so precise and proper, that we can afford to be intellectually lazy and neglect the very tools (such as philosophy) God gave us to help understand all that He is? Are we really that prideful to admit we don’t know it all and need help? Or are we too lazy and find it easier to simply say, “the Holy Spirit will just tell me.” This is not how Christ lived his life, because he himself grew in wisdom (luke 2:52), and in claiming otherwise, we make ourselves out to be better than Jesus. Such assertions make these people hard to be taken seriously.
Philosophy is a gift from God, and a gift that will enrich our lives, our minds, our worship, and our outlook on who God is. This is what it means to love God with our minds.
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waysider
Sounds like a bit of rationalization.
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Charity
Again, I feel like I'm late to the party. I'm finding out that Hernandez's view about "good" philosophy being a necessary (or at least a helpful) tool to help Christians understand life and God better is not that uncommon among scholars and some ministries. Just goes to show that up until a couple of months ago, I was still holding onto vp's catchphrase "it's the word, the word and nothing but the word" (or something like that).
I guess the bible is fair game for ministers, preachers, and believers to come to their own truth. The likelihood is zero, though, that anyone will find a "truth" that takes all the guesswork and inconsistencies out of God and his promises for our lives in the here and now (IMHO).
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waysider
PFAL:
"Bible good/Philosophy bad"
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Raf
The 19 most condescending things people say to atheists
Not a great list, and not enough exposition on each item. But mostly a good try.
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waysider
" Number 8 will astound you!"
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Raf
I'm going to pull a quote from the otherwise overtly political article "The God delusion of secular liberals."
Needless to say, this is the kind of obnoxious projection that makes it impossible to have a constructive dialogue with people who are incapable of recognizing simple concepts.
Simple concept number 1: Some people don't worship anyone or anything, no matter what your holy book says. And you don't get to define worship into existence. Worship is not the same thing as honor or respect or prioritization. And for the love of hate, atheists don't worship themselves. We don't think highly enough of ourselves to do such a thing.
2. Morality does not come from religion. If it dud, the expression "BuT iT wAs AnOtHeR tImE" would not exist. The evolving morality of any society often leaves religious tenets way behind. The Bible is less forgiving of cheeseburgers than it is of slave ownership.
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Rocky
and shellfish?
Leviticus 11:9-11
New International Version
9 “‘Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean.
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Raf
Atheist tennis player baptized his son. What's up with that?
Both my sons are baptized, as is my daughter. I take no issue with it. It's a cultural rite of passage and in this case it's more for my wife than it is for the kids.
I feel like some people think this is such a huge Gotcha! As if I want my kids baptized just in case I'm wrong about Yahweh. Let me assure you, if that were my concern I would spend a lot less time openly declaring my belief that he is an emotionally unstable sociopath with a raging case of insecurity and an unhealthy need for unceasing affirmation.
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Raf
God and Science
This is a gish gallop of an article. So many ridiculous statements fired in rapid succession. Good for a laugh. Anyone want to discuss?
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Charity
Tempting, considering the author's statement, "Accordingly, the celebrity atheist scientist could certainly take a look at the abundance of Near Death Experiences, the Shroud of Turin, bloody Eucharist hosts, and the Guadalupe Tilma. All of these supernatural items have been examined by numerous scientists from around the world, who have concluded that only a miracle from God could have caused them."
But, I don't have the stomach for the article and its links at the moment, so unfortunately my funny bone will remain untickled for now. It'd be interesting to see a discussion develop though.
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Rocky
Sounds political...
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Raf
It wasn't. But THAT was. Stop it! (also, lol).
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Raf
Wow
Long time since i posted here.
Often it's because the daily alert veers into politics.
More often it's because I'm busy. But i think i'll just start new threads when something interesting pops up
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