I listened to the whole video and have different thoughts on it. He does a very good job with scripture to teach how God delights in all people and I think if this was all one needed to know and believe, one could feel safe and secure in God. But then there are the many teachings about people needing to be saved before the rapture (which supposedly will happen soon because of the upcoming solar eclipse) or needing to either survive the tribulation or be martyred in ordered to be saved. There are also the times when you pray for someone who is suffering and who only gets worse while you're trusting God to help them. In other words, there are reasons to stop believing in this God who does not come across as so loving after all.
I'm wondering what your purpose was for your post and sharing the video.
I'm wondering what your purpose was for your post and sharing the video.
Great question, Charity. I would HOPE. I would also HOPE our new good friend Righteous Rider isn't/wasn't trying to set GSC readers up for a Viral Mimetic Infection.
I just found THIS 14 year old video on YouTube. Not quite four minutes into this video, Ms Benscoter related how she believes it works. She shared what Viral Mimetic Infection made her vulnerable as a 17 year old to love bombing by Moonies. She became a Moonie.
Can you think of any (viral mimetic infection) VMI-like phrases that Wierwille used in his Pflap class to HOOK us?
I'm not complicated enough to know what you mean by the viral deal. My only purpose in sharing this video is that I know a lot of negative things got solved in my life, without having to re-hash the details, when I started letting God love me. I thought others might like to experience that short-cut, too.
I'm not complicated enough to know what you mean by the viral deal. My only purpose in sharing this video is that I know a lot of negative things got solved in my life, without having to re-hash the details, when I started letting God love me. I thought others might like to experience that short-cut, too.
God and Jesus Christ have been excluded from this website, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing what helped you and may it help others, God Bless!
1. A lot of posters who are still Christians are still gun-shy about getting on any bandwagon after what happened in twi. There's a lot of suspicion when a new idea shows up. (Some of this would have been useful when "Momentus" and "personal prophecy" were thrown at people who were supposed to swallow them and not object or even question either.)
2. Strictly speaking, I would not say God and/or Jesus Christ have been excluded from this messageboard. I don't think they're particularly welcome at present, but that doesn't mean threads on either will actually be deleted or locked.
However, they might be MOVED. "Open" is for discussions that don't fit ANY other category. "Matters of Faith" has sections that fit this thread, and I think it belongs in "Doctrinal" more than anywhere else.
1. A lot of posters who are still Christians are still gun-shy about getting on any bandwagon after what happened in twi. There's a lot of suspicion when a new idea shows up. (Some of this would have been useful when "Momentus" and "personal prophecy" were thrown at people who were supposed to swallow them and not object or even question either.)
great observation, I agree, but am not familiar with "personal prophesy" = is that a thing?
great observation, I agree, but am not familiar with "personal prophesy" = is that a thing?
It is a "thing." It is a con that should have been caught when it was introduced to CES/STFI by its top people. Instead, people blindly went along, to the point that they were willing to turn on their spouses if someone spoke against them with a "personal prophecy."
Pretty early in CES history, they went from "let's discuss things openly" to "here's our doctrine and don't dare try to speak against it." Part of that was their so-called "personal prophecy." It was personal. It was not "prophecy" because it was CALLED that but was actually just some fool dressing up nonsense to sound godly, OR some nonsense meant to attack someone that was spoken if that person was an obstacle. For all of JAL's supposed skills at understanding things, he let them just badmouth his Mrs and get between them, breaking up his marriage because some fool dressed up some slander against her. It was no more sensible than if some woman in a gypsy costume said some nonsense and JAL decided to leave his wife because she was evil. (BTW, JAL later repented of teaching this and believing it, but he NEVER apologized to all the people he misled, and neither did the charlatans who conned him.) There's been entire discussions about this.
There were a bunch of threads that addressed the original claims, with Karen G claiming to see spiders come out of people's noses and so on. For those of you wondering how this stuff works, I started a thread... We discussed "personal prophecy", cold reading and hot reading.
No it's not. You're the moderator, and you have a very nasty unchristian bias, and you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time. There is no other side around here anymore but a push towards writing memoirs and ted talks. That some found redeeming value in those things is awesome. However, others, like myself, returned to Jesus Christ and found a great relationship that the way international and others would love to hide. So it's clear to me that when a moderator leaves an anti-Christian post in the about the way section, then there's a problem and this is no longer an objective website and no longer does it serve its stated purpose.
Jesus Christ and most anything Christian is not welcome here, and therefore I'm unwelcome here.
But on the other hand, let a Christian post pop up in about the way, and It's immediately moved.
No it's not. You're the moderator, and you have a very nasty unchristian bias, and you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time. There is no other side around here anymore but a push towards writing memoirs and ted talks. That some found redeeming value in those things is awesome. However, others, like myself, returned to Jesus Christ and found a great relationship that the way international and others would love to hide. So it's clear to me that when a moderator leaves an anti-Christian post in the about the way section, then there's a problem and this is no longer an objective website and no longer does it serve its stated purpose.
Jesus Christ and most anything Christian is not welcome here, and therefore I'm unwelcome here.
But on the other hand, let a Christian post pop up in about the way, and It's immediately moved.
I received a notification that something I said on this thread was somehow considered controversial.
However, I'm NOT finding anything on this thread I said that could be controversial.
Nevertheless, I am NOT a moderator. I don't "move" or delete" anything.
Also, Go Dbacks! :)
Further, regardless of my beliefs regarding Jesus Christ or God, even if I profess unbelief, I don't get your point. OldSkool. Please clarify
"you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time."
Technically true, but he also later apologized both for missing the request to move the thread, and for leaving it there so long regardless (since it didn't need a request to be moved.) I'm willing to take his apology at face value. He could just as easily post something inflammatory and claim it was intentional, so I don't see any point for him to LIE and say it should have been moved, without consequence. Therefore, I think it's logical his apology was sincere and I've accepted it. In other news, dredging up the other thread at this point, to me, amounts to advertising it, and I'm not in favor of that, so I won't.
I’ve tried to find a mission statement or statement of purpose for the cafe. Though I couldn’t find one, it seems self evident, and seems to be neither religious nor anti-religious.
It seems all voices are welcome. Even designated sub forums exist to ensure space for varying voices to be heard. (Even Mike and his bloody gloves are welcome here to make murder legal in California!)
I never knew how hateful and destructive humans could be, including so-called Christians, until I unwittingly married into a family controlled by an OG Corps “grad.” This website has helped me immensely to sort out the pathology of the cult The Way International, Inc. I am grateful for all the atheists and all the Christians who are free to post here. I have learned much from both.
No it's not. You're the moderator, and you have a very nasty unchristian bias, and you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time. There is no other side around here anymore but a push towards writing memoirs and ted talks. That some found redeeming value in those things is awesome. However, others, like myself, returned to Jesus Christ and found a great relationship that the way international and others would love to hide. So it's clear to me that when a moderator leaves an anti-Christian post in the about the way section, then there's a problem and this is no longer an objective website and no longer does it serve its stated purpose.
Jesus Christ and most anything Christian is not welcome here, and therefore I'm unwelcome here.
But on the other hand, let a Christian post pop up in about the way, and It's immediately moved.
Once again, OldSkool is lying. Christian messages are most welcome here, as are expressions of faith and belief in God.
It must be said, it is true that sometimes threads that are posted in the wrong forum and remain there for "some time." This is not a reflection of bias. It is a reflection of the fact that we have jobs and lives of our own and we don't spend our days waiting for someone to post something just so we can review it and pass judgment. This thread was moved when someone politely reported it and correctly noted it belongs in doctrinal, not About the Way.
I thought "Matters of Faith" as a general category was more fitting than Doctrinal, which has more to do with being Biblically correct. Let me know what you think and we can reconsider its placement.
If you hunt around, you'll see many posts about God and Christ and Christianity that are for the most part undisturbed by atheist or nonbelieving interjections.
OldSkool omitted reference to such posts and threads because they illustrate quite clearly that he is lying. Incidentally, the fact that we continue to permit him to post here despite his insistence on lying about us further illustrates that he is lying. I may not like his lies... I mean posts, but he is welcome to stay as long as he likes so long as he sticks to the rules, which he for the most part has.
Christians are welcome here and discussions about Christian thoughts and ideas are likewise welcome.
it's not a lie to the person saying something, calling names does not help anything, could say he is not telling the truth, more words involved with more thinking in it, but worth the trouble
raising my kids I told them one rule was no name-calling, so that is why this bothers me I guess
of course I have name-called to people myself, so..... whatever...
Namecalling is attacking the character of the person who posted. That has not taken place here. We were accused of engaging in an anti-Christian bias. That is not true. It is a lie and is being called such.
The person who posted this untruth is not being called a liar. That would be a personal attack. What he posted is being called a lie. Given that it is untrue and that there are enough available facts for a reasonable person to deduce that it is untrue, the statement itself is being called a lie.
As something that is an attempt to reflect a Bible-based position, I thought it belonged in Doctrinal, but it's far better of in Matters of Faith than in About The Way.
It must be said, it is true that sometimes threads that are posted in the wrong forum and remain there for "some time." This is not a reflection of bias. It is a reflection of the fact that we have jobs and lives of our own and we don't spend our days waiting for someone to post something just so we can review it and pass judgment. This thread was moved when someone politely reported it and correctly noted it belongs in doctrinal, not About the Way.
I thought "Matters of Faith" as a general category was more fitting than Doctrinal, which has more to do with being Biblically correct. Let me know what you think and we can reconsider its placement.
If you hunt around, you'll see many posts about God and Christ and Christianity that are for the most part undisturbed by atheist or nonbelieving interjections.
OldSkool omitted reference to such posts and threads because they illustrate quite clearly that he is lying. Incidentally, the fact that we continue to permit him to post here despite his insistence on lying about us further illustrates that he is lying. I may not like his lies... I mean posts, but he is welcome to stay as long as he likes so long as he sticks to the rules, which he for the most part has.
Christians are welcome here and discussions about Christian thoughts and ideas are likewise welcome.
Thanks for stating it from a mod account that Christians and Christianity are welcome here. That would be one of the reasons active TWI folk would avoid it. And it gives rise to current leadership censoring us to their group also. Which they will do anyway but if we keep things open for discussion it will negate their BS.
I would just take OS post as he doesn’t feel welcome here with a Christian view and he has his reasons. So hopefully focusing on the openness and not the lying or whatever other perception you are putting forth is better.
I have two points. One is that this interaction is not personal and face to face. So it is semi real. It can have real elements. But it is not a real connection we have. That is due to the restricted nature of our knowing one another.
Two I have my personal beliefs and do express them here. I have a personal connection I feel to Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. People can label whatever their perception of me is in their head whatever they want. I’m not gonna get shaken by their ignorance and mistaken perceptions.
I’m here on this site to help promote a healthy view towards Christianity that recognizes all who claim Jesus as Lord as part of the same body and each needing one another and having a function.
I also recognize many faiths and beliefs here from denominations to philosophers to atheist or science based views. I recently got in a conversation with a Catholic going through confirmation about the Jesuit college and their views of faith and science.
I feel that cultic Christianity, segmenting off from the body of Christ is harmful and leads towards other selfish goals not involved in Jesus message. That would include all cult groups from Scientology to the Christian cults - Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, The Way International, and many splinters from that as well as other small groups. Each exhibits high control over members in thought, emotion, belief, and separates families and marriages with evil doctrine based upon compliance to leaders doctrine and ridiculous practices such as discouraging higher education and home and business ownership with an illogical and onerous interpretation of scripture related to debt.
Stay out of the cults. If you love Jesus Christ then tune in and turn on as the Jesus Revolution says.
If you don’t find your circle of those you can discuss high thoughts with and help each other be better in a world that gets worse.
I have to watch the video to know that the video is trying for a Biblical answer, though I could have guessed that on my own.
BUT
How do I know what the OP meant when he posted it?
Yeah, you're probably right.
But Matters of Faith opens it up more than one answer, right?
Although I think the other subforum would be a better choice, this isn't an incorrect forum to place the thread, and I wouldn't lose sleep over it if it stayed here. Frankly, I don't think it's worth moving it further than here at this point.
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Rocky
Not lately.
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Charity
I listened to the whole video and have different thoughts on it. He does a very good job with scripture to teach how God delights in all people and I think if this was all one needed to know and believe, one could feel safe and secure in God. But then there are the many teachings about people needing to be saved before the rapture (which supposedly will happen soon because of the upcoming solar eclipse) or needing to either survive the tribulation or be martyred in ordered to be saved. There are also the times when you pray for someone who is suffering and who only gets worse while you're trusting God to help them. In other words, there are reasons to stop believing in this God who does not come across as so loving after all.
I'm wondering what your purpose was for your post and sharing the video.
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Rocky
Great question, Charity. I would HOPE. I would also HOPE our new good friend Righteous Rider isn't/wasn't trying to set GSC readers up for a Viral Mimetic Infection.
I just found THIS 14 year old video on YouTube. Not quite four minutes into this video, Ms Benscoter related how she believes it works. She shared what Viral Mimetic Infection made her vulnerable as a 17 year old to love bombing by Moonies. She became a Moonie.
Can you think of any (viral mimetic infection) VMI-like phrases that Wierwille used in his Pflap class to HOOK us?
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RighteousRider
I'm not complicated enough to know what you mean by the viral deal. My only purpose in sharing this video is that I know a lot of negative things got solved in my life, without having to re-hash the details, when I started letting God love me. I thought others might like to experience that short-cut, too.
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OldSkool
God and Jesus Christ have been excluded from this website, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing what helped you and may it help others, God Bless!
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modcat5
That is a lie, in case you're wondering.
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WordWolf
1. A lot of posters who are still Christians are still gun-shy about getting on any bandwagon after what happened in twi. There's a lot of suspicion when a new idea shows up. (Some of this would have been useful when "Momentus" and "personal prophecy" were thrown at people who were supposed to swallow them and not object or even question either.)
2. Strictly speaking, I would not say God and/or Jesus Christ have been excluded from this messageboard. I don't think they're particularly welcome at present, but that doesn't mean threads on either will actually be deleted or locked.
However, they might be MOVED. "Open" is for discussions that don't fit ANY other category. "Matters of Faith" has sections that fit this thread, and I think it belongs in "Doctrinal" more than anywhere else.
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cman
great observation, I agree, but am not familiar with "personal prophesy" = is that a thing?
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Rocky
I would suggest asking JALvis, but he's no longer available for consultation.
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WordWolf
It is a "thing." It is a con that should have been caught when it was introduced to CES/STFI by its top people. Instead, people blindly went along, to the point that they were willing to turn on their spouses if someone spoke against them with a "personal prophecy."
Pretty early in CES history, they went from "let's discuss things openly" to "here's our doctrine and don't dare try to speak against it." Part of that was their so-called "personal prophecy." It was personal. It was not "prophecy" because it was CALLED that but was actually just some fool dressing up nonsense to sound godly, OR some nonsense meant to attack someone that was spoken if that person was an obstacle. For all of JAL's supposed skills at understanding things, he let them just badmouth his Mrs and get between them, breaking up his marriage because some fool dressed up some slander against her. It was no more sensible than if some woman in a gypsy costume said some nonsense and JAL decided to leave his wife because she was evil. (BTW, JAL later repented of teaching this and believing it, but he NEVER apologized to all the people he misled, and neither did the charlatans who conned him.) There's been entire discussions about this.
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WordWolf
If you want to follow up on this, there were discussions in previous threads. Here's a few:
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12635-other-prophesies-prophets-and-charismaniacs/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/13026-they-pulled-that-stupid-prophecy-thing-off-their-website/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12471-ces-is-in-a-mess/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12521-prophecy-and-dreams/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/20712-jals-most-recent-email-12272009/
There were a bunch of threads that addressed the original claims, with Karen G claiming to see spiders come out of people's noses and so on. For those of you wondering how this stuff works, I started a thread... We discussed "personal prophecy", cold reading and hot reading.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12632-step-right-up-get-your-own-personal-prophecy/
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OldSkool
No it's not. You're the moderator, and you have a very nasty unchristian bias, and you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time. There is no other side around here anymore but a push towards writing memoirs and ted talks. That some found redeeming value in those things is awesome. However, others, like myself, returned to Jesus Christ and found a great relationship that the way international and others would love to hide. So it's clear to me that when a moderator leaves an anti-Christian post in the about the way section, then there's a problem and this is no longer an objective website and no longer does it serve its stated purpose.
Jesus Christ and most anything Christian is not welcome here, and therefore I'm unwelcome here.
But on the other hand, let a Christian post pop up in about the way, and It's immediately moved.
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Rocky
I received a notification that something I said on this thread was somehow considered controversial.
However, I'm NOT finding anything on this thread I said that could be controversial.
Nevertheless, I am NOT a moderator. I don't "move" or delete" anything.
Also, Go Dbacks! :)
Further, regardless of my beliefs regarding Jesus Christ or God, even if I profess unbelief, I don't get your point. OldSkool. Please clarify
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WordWolf
"you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time."
Technically true, but he also later apologized both for missing the request to move the thread, and for leaving it there so long regardless (since it didn't need a request to be moved.) I'm willing to take his apology at face value. He could just as easily post something inflammatory and claim it was intentional, so I don't see any point for him to LIE and say it should have been moved, without consequence. Therefore, I think it's logical his apology was sincere and I've accepted it. In other news, dredging up the other thread at this point, to me, amounts to advertising it, and I'm not in favor of that, so I won't.
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Nathan_Jr
I’ve tried to find a mission statement or statement of purpose for the cafe. Though I couldn’t find one, it seems self evident, and seems to be neither religious nor anti-religious.
It seems all voices are welcome. Even designated sub forums exist to ensure space for varying voices to be heard. (Even Mike and his bloody gloves are welcome here to make murder legal in California!)
I never knew how hateful and destructive humans could be, including so-called Christians, until I unwittingly married into a family controlled by an OG Corps “grad.” This website has helped me immensely to sort out the pathology of the cult The Way International, Inc. I am grateful for all the atheists and all the Christians who are free to post here. I have learned much from both.
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cman
yeah... stick around a little while OldSkool, people can surprise you
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modcat5
Once again, OldSkool is lying. Christian messages are most welcome here, as are expressions of faith and belief in God.
This is not a disagreement. He's lying.
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modcat5
It must be said, it is true that sometimes threads that are posted in the wrong forum and remain there for "some time." This is not a reflection of bias. It is a reflection of the fact that we have jobs and lives of our own and we don't spend our days waiting for someone to post something just so we can review it and pass judgment. This thread was moved when someone politely reported it and correctly noted it belongs in doctrinal, not About the Way.
I thought "Matters of Faith" as a general category was more fitting than Doctrinal, which has more to do with being Biblically correct. Let me know what you think and we can reconsider its placement.
If you hunt around, you'll see many posts about God and Christ and Christianity that are for the most part undisturbed by atheist or nonbelieving interjections.
OldSkool omitted reference to such posts and threads because they illustrate quite clearly that he is lying. Incidentally, the fact that we continue to permit him to post here despite his insistence on lying about us further illustrates that he is lying. I may not like his lies... I mean posts, but he is welcome to stay as long as he likes so long as he sticks to the rules, which he for the most part has.
Christians are welcome here and discussions about Christian thoughts and ideas are likewise welcome.
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cman
it's not a lie to the person saying something, calling names does not help anything, could say he is not telling the truth, more words involved with more thinking in it, but worth the trouble
raising my kids I told them one rule was no name-calling, so that is why this bothers me I guess
of course I have name-called to people myself, so..... whatever...
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modcat5
Namecalling is attacking the character of the person who posted. That has not taken place here. We were accused of engaging in an anti-Christian bias. That is not true. It is a lie and is being called such.
The person who posted this untruth is not being called a liar. That would be a personal attack. What he posted is being called a lie. Given that it is untrue and that there are enough available facts for a reasonable person to deduce that it is untrue, the statement itself is being called a lie.
I hope that clears things up.
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WordWolf
As something that is an attempt to reflect a Bible-based position, I thought it belonged in Doctrinal, but it's far better of in Matters of Faith than in About The Way.
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modcat5
I have to watch the video to know that the video is trying for a Biblical answer, though I could have guessed that on my own.
BUT
How do I know what the OP meant when he posted it?
Yeah, you're probably right.
But Matters of Faith opens it up more than one answer, right?
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chockfull
Thanks for stating it from a mod account that Christians and Christianity are welcome here. That would be one of the reasons active TWI folk would avoid it. And it gives rise to current leadership censoring us to their group also. Which they will do anyway but if we keep things open for discussion it will negate their BS.
I would just take OS post as he doesn’t feel welcome here with a Christian view and he has his reasons. So hopefully focusing on the openness and not the lying or whatever other perception you are putting forth is better.
I have two points. One is that this interaction is not personal and face to face. So it is semi real. It can have real elements. But it is not a real connection we have. That is due to the restricted nature of our knowing one another.
Two I have my personal beliefs and do express them here. I have a personal connection I feel to Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. People can label whatever their perception of me is in their head whatever they want. I’m not gonna get shaken by their ignorance and mistaken perceptions.
I’m here on this site to help promote a healthy view towards Christianity that recognizes all who claim Jesus as Lord as part of the same body and each needing one another and having a function.
I also recognize many faiths and beliefs here from denominations to philosophers to atheist or science based views. I recently got in a conversation with a Catholic going through confirmation about the Jesuit college and their views of faith and science.
I feel that cultic Christianity, segmenting off from the body of Christ is harmful and leads towards other selfish goals not involved in Jesus message. That would include all cult groups from Scientology to the Christian cults - Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, The Way International, and many splinters from that as well as other small groups. Each exhibits high control over members in thought, emotion, belief, and separates families and marriages with evil doctrine based upon compliance to leaders doctrine and ridiculous practices such as discouraging higher education and home and business ownership with an illogical and onerous interpretation of scripture related to debt.
Stay out of the cults. If you love Jesus Christ then tune in and turn on as the Jesus Revolution says.
If you don’t find your circle of those you can discuss high thoughts with and help each other be better in a world that gets worse.
Peace
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WordWolf
Although I think the other subforum would be a better choice, this isn't an incorrect forum to place the thread, and I wouldn't lose sleep over it if it stayed here. Frankly, I don't think it's worth moving it further than here at this point.
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