Just me. Kristen has way to words for me to sort through. I prefer the short answer.
Not hostile here.. just too much to listen to. I will accept the declaration of faith.. don't need a whole heck of a lot of justification. I'll take you at your (hopefully shorter) word for it.. don't need a whole another epistle to sort through..
Yes. But of course.. and I have to admit it. I have the attention span of a five year old at times.. give me a long video and I will miss the whole point.
Well, I listened to (all of) on my morning walk, and I don’t think you missed a thing. Not a single word or mention of the resurrection (which is the crux of Christianity) in her entire diatribe. So frankly, that tends to make me wonder if she even is a Christian. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn’t… I don’t know (and don’t much care), but as a professed teacher (or critic… however one might refer to her), she should certainly know better.
Whether you believe that Jesus is or isn’t God (which she seems to think matters, but it wasn't very clear to me what her position on that is), or profess that God loves you, or that Jesus is Lord, or claim to walk in his name or power… or anything else, for that matter… matters not one single whit without (truly) believing in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead.
And honestly, I view everyone in that same light, including those that were at anytime involved with the Way Ministry (or S.I.T.). There is one criteria for being a Christian, and one criteria alone.
Well, I listened to (all of) on my morning walk, and I don’t think you missed a thing. Not a single word or mention of the resurrection (which is the crux of Christianity) in her entire diatribe. So frankly, that tends to make me wonder if she even is a Christian. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn’t… I don’t know (and don’t much care), but as a professed teacher (or critic… however one might refer to her), she should certainly know better.
Whether you believe that Jesus is or isn’t God (which she seems to think matters, but it wasn't very clear to me what her position on that is), or profess that God loves you, or that Jesus is Lord, or claim to walk in his name or power… or anything else, for that matter… matters not one single whit without (truly) believing in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead.
And honestly, I view everyone in that same light, including those that were at anytime involved with the Way Ministry (or S.I.T.). There is one criteria for being a Christian, and one criteria alone.
Holy CARP! I mean WOW! I had no idea that YOU, TLC (does that still mean Tender Loving Care?) are the ULTIMATE JUDGE?
1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God.3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
4You adulterous people,adon’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.5Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in usb?6But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:
7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.9Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
11Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sisterdor judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
****
OTOH, I posted the YT video, not to evaluate or cast aspersions on historian Kristin du Mez's personal testimony (about anything) but rather to address a different question, which, she for herself, answers as well as or better than anyone could answer for her.
As for myself, I asked Ham for clarification. As best I can tell, he wonderfully clarified the message underlying his comment. I appreciate him having done so.
I wish for you today, a huge heaping helping of tender loving care... whether you identify as a Christian or not.
One thing I've noticed, TLC, is people claiming they're Christian without any real basis in reality. I saw someone claim outright they didn't believe in the Bible AND didn't believe Jesus is/was the Christ/Messiah. I mean, it's right in the name! So, I brought that up, and someone came in loudly, saying they didn't need to justify their claim despite having their own definition for Christian. Hasn't happened often to me (that I've noticed), but it has happened.
One thing I've noticed, TLC, is people claiming they're Christian without any real basis in reality. I saw someone claim outright they didn't believe in the Bible AND didn't believe Jesus is/was the Christ/Messiah. I mean, it's right in the name! So, I brought that up, and someone came in loudly, saying they didn't need to justify their claim despite having their own definition for Christian. Hasn't happened often to me (that I've noticed), but it has happened.
Just to clarify, what I meant by "basis in reality"...
I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.
So, now you're going to attack me for merely posting my opinion on the piece?
Attack? What attack?
Wasn't I merely posting my opinion?
Touchy much?
Are you saying "freedom of speech" protects you from someone reflecting on and calling attention to what you post?
37 minutes ago, WordWolf said:
One thing I've noticed, TLC, is people claiming they're Christian without any real basis in reality. I saw someone claim outright they didn't believe in the Bible AND didn't believe Jesus is/was the Christ/Messiah. I mean, it's right in the name! So, I brought that up, and someone came in loudly, saying they didn't need to justify their claim despite having their own definition for Christian.
Are you saying people who claim to be Christian DO have to justify themselves in words?
Whatever happened to no one knows, other than God, what's in the heart of a person?
I mean, it's not like putting someone on trial for a crime, is it?
So, WordWolf, are you saying you have an opinion about Kristin du Mez' testimony? If so, why not just post it in terms of what your response is to her words?
I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.
Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?
Fine, you don't like it. Fine, you "mind less..." but how does that impact what you believe your responsibility as a Christian would be to such people? Whether it's apparent incongruity about their salvation or anything else?
I mean, come on... I'm not judging you. I'm just asking you to judge your words and your actions.
Whatever happened to no one knows, other than God, what's in the heart of a person?
Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?
"Attack? What attack?
Wasn't I merely posting my opinion?
Touchy much?"
TLC caught you "posting your opinion" in an antagonistic manner to his opinion. If that somehow escaped you, it certainly didn't escape him- nor me.
WordWolf: "I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do."
Rocky: "Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?"
It's interesting I have to make this any simpler- as if you're being deliberately obtuse to clear points being made because you'd rather skip them and find something nearby on which to pass judgement. The person who claims the title "vegan" is using a term that has a specific meaning. If they choose to use it, I expect they will be essentially consistent with it. If a person claims they are a "pacifist", likewise. A practicing vegan may slip and eat some meat- nobody's perfect- but to just claim casually that they eat meat means they're deliberately misusing the language- they're making up their own definitions and REDEFINING words that ALREADY had a meaning. Likewise, a pacifist may find a reason to defend himself- if he feels he is forced to- but that's very different from someone looking to start physical fights. For someone to be that sort of person- which they can be, for all I care- but to claim the OPPOSITE, I object to that.
"Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?"
I can only go by the words people speak, and the actions that they take, and what those tell me. If they're in conflict, that tells me something. If someone claims to be a pacifist, but seeks violence, that says something. If someone claims only to have a curiosity, but focuses it only on accusatory questions, that says something. And we all- yourself included- live our everyday lives doing exactly this, even if you feel like claiming otherwise.
If you see a man running down the street, screaming, with a foaming mouth, and carrying a bloody knife, you don't know what's in his heart, either. However, you're certainly going to draw some conclusions based on his actions. Now, it's mathematically possible that this man's mouth is foaming because he overdid his Alka-Seltzer, it's possible he's screaming because someone stomped his foot wearing heavy boots, and it's possible he's got a bloody knife because he was working in a restaurant kitchen when he overdid his Alka-Seltzer and a deliveryman in boots stomped his foot.
Anyone with an ounce of sense- and self-preservation- is going to stay clear of him and hide or remove themselves from where he is, and maybe call the police. The philosopher who decides to approach him, refuse to "declare judgement on a person" - as you put it- and tries to find out what's in his heart becomes another statistic in the murder stats of the day. What a noble thing he did! He didn't know what was in the man's heart, so he went to find out..... no,. what an idiot! And anyone who needs me to explain why that's idiotic won't understand the answer, or why the rest of us have little patience with sophistry.
So, WordWolf, are you saying you have an opinion about Kristin du Mez' testimony? If so, why not just post it in terms of what your response is to her words?
I have no opinion on her testimony. I don't remember the last time I've actually opened one of your video links. I open few of them on the GSC in general, and yours even less. I find that posting a link with little or no indication as to WHY it's posted looks like homework. I'm not sifting through 15 minutes or more of video just because someone else wanted me to. This is a DISCUSSION board, so I expect DISCUSSION, and if a video is posted, I don't just click on it devoid of DISCUSSION.
"Fine, you don't like it. Fine, you "mind less..." but how does that impact what you believe your responsibility as a Christian would be to such people? Whether it's apparent incongruity about their salvation or anything else?
I mean, come on... I'm not judging you. I'm just asking you to judge your words and your actions."
I mind less people who judge me and are upfront about it than people who claim they don't, while they judge me in the process. You should have gotten that by now, it was simple enough to extrapolate from the other posts.
I’m getting to her testimony but dear baby Jesus on a pogo stick they have more “woke” labels starting out that podcast than I can even concentrate on. Hopefully that won’t obscure her message.
Well she seems to talk all around the topic as opposed to addressing the commonly held definitions of Christianity.
Jesus and John Wayne seems to attack the male image in religion - the topic seems more “wokism” than “faith” regardless of the truth of male dominated organizations.
I agree with her sentiments on feeling the need to prove her background and views especially labels like “Calvinist”.
Christianity to me is from the heart and judged by God not some kind of 90 page questionnaire checking boxes on aligned theology.
She has good advice on having a thick skin if you are going to explore your faith in an online community. Lol.
Christianity with a non Fundamentalist view is very different to all of us raised in Fundamentalist teachings. We expect an exact answer to everything when that is not realistic and is not life.
She talks about her circle of influence and keeping them valuable and positive. She talks about her church - Reformed Christian not Evangelical Christian - that can help differentiate and navigate common modern organizations. She has her niche and her circle of friends. That is good.
I get really lost trying to place her inner faith message with all of the modern and woke labels and descriptions.
Accepting variances of views in other Christians while still working with them praying with them interacting and doing ministry work with them to me is the crux of all the teachings on one body of Christ which TWI has missed for decades generations and most of their lifetimes.
I have no opinion on her testimony. I don't remember the last time I've actually opened one of your video links. I open few of them on the GSC in general, and yours even less. I find that posting a link with little or no indication as to WHY it's posted looks like homework. I'm not sifting through 15 minutes or more of video just because someone else wanted me to. This is a DISCUSSION board, so I expect DISCUSSION, and if a video is posted, I don't just click on it devoid of DISCUSSION.
You make some good points there. As to not clicking on links without knowing what it is, THAT is why I post the preview. If that doesn't interest you, fine. Don't participate in any discussion about something you don't care to view.
However, I pick up a bit of an attitude in your comment.
I do, however, disagree with you about not providing a starting place for discussion.
On 11/11/2023 at 4:04 PM, Rocky said:
Historian Kristin Du Mez responds to the question from the Holy Post podcast. Kristin has written Jesus and John Wayne.
Pardon me if I didn't provide ENOUGH discussion to interest you. I certainly did NOT give anyone a homework assignment.
If there are other things contributing to your mood, I wish you well.
Just to clarify, what I meant by "basis in reality"...
I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.
15 hours ago, chockfull said:
Christianity with a non Fundamentalist view is very different to all of us raised in Fundamentalist teachings. We expect an exact answer to everything when that is not realistic and is not life.
It's one thing to be an arrogant know it all and another to be arrogant and think no one knows anything including one's self except for what is arrogantly posted as if it means something to anyone. That's not the only 2 ways to do it either.
Historian Kristin Du Mez responds to the question from the Holy Post podcast. Kristin has written Jesus and John Wayne.
There's no real way for me to judge without experiencing her church for 6-12 months and see for myself, but she seems to believe in predestination i.e. everything is in place, ordained by God regardless of one's faith? i.e. Jesus paid for the sins of mankind therefore everyone is saved regardless? She believes in the Nicene Creed but is that alone enough to be saved? Again, need more exposure I think.
Finally listened to this video and read up on Ms. Ali.
Neither impressed me much from a religious standpoint. They didn't make or defend an argument for Christianity, but they expressed strong feelings about being Christian, with which I cannot really argue.
Neither of them owes me an explanation, for that matter, but I guess I expected more. That's on me.
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Ham
I dunno. I like a simpler answer of about 3 seconds.. maybe because God still loves me.. heh. Doesn't give me pretty much any other of a choice.. heh.
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Rocky
Is that why YOU, Ham, are still a Christian? Or is that your assessment of Kristin Du Mez' declaration of faith?
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Ham
Just me. Kristen has way to words for me to sort through. I prefer the short answer.
Not hostile here.. just too much to listen to. I will accept the declaration of faith.. don't need a whole heck of a lot of justification. I'll take you at your (hopefully shorter) word for it.. don't need a whole another epistle to sort through..
I would prefer dialogue.
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Rocky
oh, okay. So you're okay with others listening to Kristin du Mez' explain why she's still a Christian, I suppose.
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Ham
Yes. But of course.. and I have to admit it. I have the attention span of a five year old at times.. give me a long video and I will miss the whole point.
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TLC
Well, I listened to (all of) on my morning walk, and I don’t think you missed a thing. Not a single word or mention of the resurrection (which is the crux of Christianity) in her entire diatribe. So frankly, that tends to make me wonder if she even is a Christian. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn’t… I don’t know (and don’t much care), but as a professed teacher (or critic… however one might refer to her), she should certainly know better.
Whether you believe that Jesus is or isn’t God (which she seems to think matters, but it wasn't very clear to me what her position on that is), or profess that God loves you, or that Jesus is Lord, or claim to walk in his name or power… or anything else, for that matter… matters not one single whit without (truly) believing in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead.
And honestly, I view everyone in that same light, including those that were at anytime involved with the Way Ministry (or S.I.T.). There is one criteria for being a Christian, and one criteria alone.
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Rocky
Holy CARP! I mean WOW! I had no idea that YOU, TLC (does that still mean Tender Loving Care?) are the ULTIMATE JUDGE?
Here's the first 12 verses of the Book of James chapter 4
1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
4You adulterous people, a don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us b ? 6But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.” c
7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
11Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister d or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
****
OTOH, I posted the YT video, not to evaluate or cast aspersions on historian Kristin du Mez's personal testimony (about anything) but rather to address a different question, which, she for herself, answers as well as or better than anyone could answer for her.
As for myself, I asked Ham for clarification. As best I can tell, he wonderfully clarified the message underlying his comment. I appreciate him having done so.
I wish for you today, a huge heaping helping of tender loving care... whether you identify as a Christian or not.
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TLC
So, now you're going to attack me for merely posting my opinion on the piece?
No wonder so few post here anymore...
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WordWolf
One thing I've noticed, TLC, is people claiming they're Christian without any real basis in reality. I saw someone claim outright they didn't believe in the Bible AND didn't believe Jesus is/was the Christ/Messiah. I mean, it's right in the name! So, I brought that up, and someone came in loudly, saying they didn't need to justify their claim despite having their own definition for Christian. Hasn't happened often to me (that I've noticed), but it has happened.
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WordWolf
Just to clarify, what I meant by "basis in reality"...
I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.
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Rocky
Attack? What attack?
Wasn't I merely posting my opinion?
Touchy much?
Are you saying "freedom of speech" protects you from someone reflecting on and calling attention to what you post?
Are you saying people who claim to be Christian DO have to justify themselves in words?
Whatever happened to no one knows, other than God, what's in the heart of a person?
I mean, it's not like putting someone on trial for a crime, is it?
So, WordWolf, are you saying you have an opinion about Kristin du Mez' testimony? If so, why not just post it in terms of what your response is to her words?
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Rocky
Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?
Fine, you don't like it. Fine, you "mind less..." but how does that impact what you believe your responsibility as a Christian would be to such people? Whether it's apparent incongruity about their salvation or anything else?
I mean, come on... I'm not judging you. I'm just asking you to judge your words and your actions.
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WordWolf
Whatever happened to no one knows, other than God, what's in the heart of a person?
Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?
"Attack? What attack?
Wasn't I merely posting my opinion?
Touchy much?"
TLC caught you "posting your opinion" in an antagonistic manner to his opinion. If that somehow escaped you, it certainly didn't escape him- nor me.
WordWolf: "I dislike people making up their own definitions for things. Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat? If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street. So, if someone claims they're a "Christian", it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name. I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do."
Rocky: "Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?"
It's interesting I have to make this any simpler- as if you're being deliberately obtuse to clear points being made because you'd rather skip them and find something nearby on which to pass judgement. The person who claims the title "vegan" is using a term that has a specific meaning. If they choose to use it, I expect they will be essentially consistent with it. If a person claims they are a "pacifist", likewise. A practicing vegan may slip and eat some meat- nobody's perfect- but to just claim casually that they eat meat means they're deliberately misusing the language- they're making up their own definitions and REDEFINING words that ALREADY had a meaning. Likewise, a pacifist may find a reason to defend himself- if he feels he is forced to- but that's very different from someone looking to start physical fights. For someone to be that sort of person- which they can be, for all I care- but to claim the OPPOSITE, I object to that.
"Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?"
I can only go by the words people speak, and the actions that they take, and what those tell me. If they're in conflict, that tells me something. If someone claims to be a pacifist, but seeks violence, that says something. If someone claims only to have a curiosity, but focuses it only on accusatory questions, that says something. And we all- yourself included- live our everyday lives doing exactly this, even if you feel like claiming otherwise.
If you see a man running down the street, screaming, with a foaming mouth, and carrying a bloody knife, you don't know what's in his heart, either. However, you're certainly going to draw some conclusions based on his actions. Now, it's mathematically possible that this man's mouth is foaming because he overdid his Alka-Seltzer, it's possible he's screaming because someone stomped his foot wearing heavy boots, and it's possible he's got a bloody knife because he was working in a restaurant kitchen when he overdid his Alka-Seltzer and a deliveryman in boots stomped his foot.
Anyone with an ounce of sense- and self-preservation- is going to stay clear of him and hide or remove themselves from where he is, and maybe call the police. The philosopher who decides to approach him, refuse to "declare judgement on a person" - as you put it- and tries to find out what's in his heart becomes another statistic in the murder stats of the day. What a noble thing he did! He didn't know what was in the man's heart, so he went to find out..... no,. what an idiot! And anyone who needs me to explain why that's idiotic won't understand the answer, or why the rest of us have little patience with sophistry.
So, WordWolf, are you saying you have an opinion about Kristin du Mez' testimony? If so, why not just post it in terms of what your response is to her words?
I have no opinion on her testimony. I don't remember the last time I've actually opened one of your video links. I open few of them on the GSC in general, and yours even less. I find that posting a link with little or no indication as to WHY it's posted looks like homework. I'm not sifting through 15 minutes or more of video just because someone else wanted me to. This is a DISCUSSION board, so I expect DISCUSSION, and if a video is posted, I don't just click on it devoid of DISCUSSION.
"Fine, you don't like it. Fine, you "mind less..." but how does that impact what you believe your responsibility as a Christian would be to such people? Whether it's apparent incongruity about their salvation or anything else?
I mean, come on... I'm not judging you. I'm just asking you to judge your words and your actions."
I mind less people who judge me and are upfront about it than people who claim they don't, while they judge me in the process. You should have gotten that by now, it was simple enough to extrapolate from the other posts.
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chockfull
I’m getting to her testimony but dear baby Jesus on a pogo stick they have more “woke” labels starting out that podcast than I can even concentrate on. Hopefully that won’t obscure her message.
Well she seems to talk all around the topic as opposed to addressing the commonly held definitions of Christianity.
Jesus and John Wayne seems to attack the male image in religion - the topic seems more “wokism” than “faith” regardless of the truth of male dominated organizations.
I agree with her sentiments on feeling the need to prove her background and views especially labels like “Calvinist”.
Christianity to me is from the heart and judged by God not some kind of 90 page questionnaire checking boxes on aligned theology.
She has good advice on having a thick skin if you are going to explore your faith in an online community. Lol.
Christianity with a non Fundamentalist view is very different to all of us raised in Fundamentalist teachings. We expect an exact answer to everything when that is not realistic and is not life.
She talks about her circle of influence and keeping them valuable and positive. She talks about her church - Reformed Christian not Evangelical Christian - that can help differentiate and navigate common modern organizations. She has her niche and her circle of friends. That is good.
I get really lost trying to place her inner faith message with all of the modern and woke labels and descriptions.
Accepting variances of views in other Christians while still working with them praying with them interacting and doing ministry work with them to me is the crux of all the teachings on one body of Christ which TWI has missed for decades generations and most of their lifetimes.
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chockfull
I’m with you on this. My faith message needs to be short enough so I don’t get lost explaining it.
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Rocky
You make some good points there. As to not clicking on links without knowing what it is, THAT is why I post the preview. If that doesn't interest you, fine. Don't participate in any discussion about something you don't care to view.
However, I pick up a bit of an attitude in your comment.
I do, however, disagree with you about not providing a starting place for discussion.
Pardon me if I didn't provide ENOUGH discussion to interest you.
I certainly did NOT give anyone a homework assignment.
If there are other things contributing to your mood, I wish you well.
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Rocky
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Rocky
I appreciate your criticism. Even though I'm not recognizing the constructiveness of it.
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Rocky
Indeed.
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Rocky
YES!
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cman
It's one thing to be an arrogant know it all and another to be arrogant and think no one knows anything including one's self except for what is arrogantly posted as if it means something to anyone. That's not the only 2 ways to do it either.
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oldiesman
There's no real way for me to judge without experiencing her church for 6-12 months and see for myself, but she seems to believe in predestination i.e. everything is in place, ordained by God regardless of one's faith? i.e. Jesus paid for the sins of mankind therefore everyone is saved regardless? She believes in the Nicene Creed but is that alone enough to be saved? Again, need more exposure I think.
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Raf
The ex-Muslim atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali recently announced her conversion to Christianity.
Her conversion story is steeped in politics, so it's impossible to discuss her story without discussing politics.
Ground rules: The validity of her political views are off limits. The validity of her religious views are.
Why I am now a Christian - UnHerd
I have not read her essay, nor have I listened to the video in the o.p. I will not comment until I do one or the other, preferably both.
In case you were wondering why I'm so quiet.
:)
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Raf
Finally listened to this video and read up on Ms. Ali.
Neither impressed me much from a religious standpoint. They didn't make or defend an argument for Christianity, but they expressed strong feelings about being Christian, with which I cannot really argue.
Neither of them owes me an explanation, for that matter, but I guess I expected more. That's on me.
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