Respectfully, on this thread, I don't find anywhere that I apologized to you for anything. I suppose you disagree with that. If so, please point it out, specifically.
Thank you.
I wish you nothing but health and happiness, all your days. (this is NOT related to anything I may have said that you believe contradicts what I said herein).
What causes me to scratch my head is that your words seem to be saying (what you believe) is going on inside my head. Please clarify how you may have come to search out and determine what's going on between my ears. Thank you.
Yes the post was not on this thread but another. So? I suppose you could search for “apologize” and find it quickly. It may only appear once or twice in your 14,000 post history.
Thanks for the well wishes.
I don’t know what is going on inside your head. Just what you post.
Please remember that. It's actually what I statements are ALL about.
Cool. Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement? I didn’t read much “I” in it. It was mostly about what you were not saying about me. Plus the gaslighting def #1. The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement. The content was not congruent to me.
Cool. Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement? I didn’t read much “I” in it. It was mostly about what you were not saying about me. Plus the gaslighting def #1. The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement. The content was not congruent to me.
It's NOT about YOU. That's all I'm going to explain about it at this time.
Not everything you (might) take personally is actually about you.
From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)
I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.
I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.
I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.
I thought of him as a fiction.
Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:
The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
Child rape. War. Etc.
And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.
Another excerpt from the WaPo article some of you may find this interesting:
Religion offers ready-made answers to our most difficult questions. It gives people ways to mark time, celebrate and mourn. Once I vowed not to teach my children anything I did not personally believe, I had to come up with new answers. But I discovered as I went what most parents discover: You can figure it out as you go.
Establishing a habit of honesty did not sap the delight from my children’s lives or destroy their moral compass. I suspect it made my family closer than we would have been had my husband and I pretended to our children that we believed in things we did not. We sowed honesty and reaped trust — along with intellectual challenge, emotional sustenance and joy.
Those are all personal rewards. But there are political rewards as well.
My children know how to distinguish fact from fiction — which is harder for children raised religious. They don’t assume conventional wisdom is true and they do expect arguments to be based on evidence. Which means they have the skills to be engaged, informed and savvy citizens.
From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)
I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.
I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.
I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.
I thought of him as a fiction.
Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:
The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
Child rape. War. Etc.
And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.
When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send me into a tail spin of condemnation, and as a young guy you can imagine the sinful thoughts I was having minute by minute, hour by hour, etc. I would pray and pray begging God to cleanse my mind. I even sheepishly went to my priest asking him what to do. He didn’t want to talk about sex, but said he would leave some church literature hidden inside the confessional, for me to study. The promised readings never showed up. This really made be feel giulty that mymoriest forgot about me.
So after high school graduation I dropped out of the church and never went back.
Staying away from the church really left a hole in me spiritually for years, and felt I was hell bound, until one day a guy sat next to me in a cafe and started witnessing to me. He said if you believe Romans 10:9&10, you will go to heaven come hell or high water. Also God can work miracle through us….all we have to do is believe. I signed up for the PFAL class immediately and hurried through all the other classes so I could operate signs, miracle, and wonders. Even went WOW, WOW Ii, and signed up for the Way Corp.
But along the way I didn’t see any signs, miracles, and wonders happening. Didn’t even see someone get over a cold by having hands laid on them. This really got started me doubting what TWI was all about and seriously wanting to leave. But by then they had their hooks in me saying if I leave all my rewards will be lost. Blah, blah, blah, you know the rest.
Thr reason I finally got out was gecause they marked and avoided me.
So stumbling about again with God going to make me a grease spot by midnight, I felt terrible. Finding GSC was a life saver and got me at least on an even keel.
Then seeing all the trouble my life had been in because of God, I began thinking what good had he done for me. Slowing I began reading articles about people who were happy not believing in God.
I have never been happier and more content since becoming an atheist.
My daughter was born and raised in TWI, and is currently a happy Catholic. But if I were raising her today I would steer her away from any religion or God.
I realize this is but I ask Stayed Too Long's indulgence.
More than a decade ago, I faced a hurricane of a storm in my life. My GSC posts at that time reflected the storm I was then immersed in.
I came out of the storm not the same person. I'm thankful for having gone through the storm and survived and grown as a person.
The storm I was facing in life was not seeing all the promises of God in my life and those around me come true. I had no choice but to conclude all the promises I was taught from childhood to adulthood were fraudulent, and had to reject them. If you reject God all that is left is to be an atheist. Becoming an atheist was a very good choice for me.
Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.
From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)
I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.
I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.
I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.
I thought of him as a fiction.
Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:
The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
Child rape. War. Etc.
And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.
So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper. It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.
Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.
Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?
Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.
Children eventually come to the realization that it is impossible for Santa Clause to deliver presents to all the good boys and girls around the world in one night.
Children also realize after a few years, that it is impossible for a rabbit to color and deliver millions of hard boiled eggs to parks and yards around the globe, every Easter morning.
These same children also arrive at the conclusion, that the tooth fairy did not actually replace a rotting tooth, places under their pillow, with a few dollars.
However, these same children, who have read in a book that a man made the waters of a sea part, continue to believe it, after no concrete evidence exists to prove it.
And, when the sea parted a bunch of nice people marched across it. Once all the good folks reached the other side of the ocean, God made the waters once again to come together, thus killing all the bad guys chasing them.
Then once all the good people gathered together on the other side of the sea, this same God, made them wonder about the desert for 40 years becuase they ....ed Him off. Of course, He did however, miraculously supply them with food for their entire 40 years of wondering. God also made them invisible to their enemies for the entire 40 years.
And when this loving God was about to deliver them from the desert after 40 years, He once again was ....ed off because the leader did something God did not like, so the leader had to die before allowing all the good people to enter the promised land.
Also, who can find someone that will change water into the finest wine? Or turn bread into fishes to feed thousands on a hillside? Or pray for a lame person and make him walk? I did a Google search for people cured of aids through prayer, but came up empty. Why has God not acted to free people of aids? People will say He has through medicine, but why did He wait so long and allow thousands to suffer and die from this hideous disease?
The Myth of life is Genesis to Revelations is a Myth.
So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper. It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.
Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.
Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?
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Stayed Too Long
When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send
WordWolf
I noticed earlier in the thread, you mentioned growing up Roman Catholic, and that there was a lot of guilt and condemnation served up with everything else. That's a shame, but hardly universal among
Nathan_Jr
I'm not saying I'm raising him to be an atheist or a Christian or a Buddhist or an adherent to any ideology. He knows if he wants to talk about any of it, I'm here to talk about it. I hope I'm ra
Posted Images
chockfull
Yes the post was not on this thread but another. So? I suppose you could search for “apologize” and find it quickly. It may only appear once or twice in your 14,000 post history.
Thanks for the well wishes.
I don’t know what is going on inside your head. Just what you post.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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Rocky
Please remember that. It's actually what I statements are ALL about.
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chockfull
Cool. Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement? I didn’t read much “I” in it. It was mostly about what you were not saying about me. Plus the gaslighting def #1. The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement. The content was not congruent to me.
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Rocky
It's NOT about YOU. That's all I'm going to explain about it at this time.
Not everything you (might) take personally is actually about you.
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chockfull
This is an “I” statement. It is totally not about Rocky and Stayed. Did you know gaslighting and lying are kissing cousins?
https://www.happierhuman.com/gaslighting-vs-lying-wa1/#:~:text=%235.-,Lying is a tactic to hide the truth while gaslighting,the case with compulsive lying.
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Rocky
From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)
I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.
I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.
I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.
I thought of him as a fiction.
Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:
And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.
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Rocky
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chockfull
Oh so you CAN’T explain how your statement fulfills the characteristics of an “I” statement?
Interesting…
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chockfull
No more than yours was.
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Rocky
I don't wish to continue bickering with you at this time. Are you willing to leave it at that?
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chockfull
I feel like you pick at me to the point you can no longer logically defend your posts, then you bail.
Leave it wherever you want to.
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Rocky
Another excerpt from the WaPo article some of you may find this interesting:
Religion offers ready-made answers to our most difficult questions. It gives people ways to mark time, celebrate and mourn. Once I vowed not to teach my children anything I did not personally believe, I had to come up with new answers. But I discovered as I went what most parents discover: You can figure it out as you go.
Establishing a habit of honesty did not sap the delight from my children’s lives or destroy their moral compass. I suspect it made my family closer than we would have been had my husband and I pretended to our children that we believed in things we did not. We sowed honesty and reaped trust — along with intellectual challenge, emotional sustenance and joy.
Those are all personal rewards. But there are political rewards as well.
My children know how to distinguish fact from fiction — which is harder for children raised religious. They don’t assume conventional wisdom is true and they do expect arguments to be based on evidence. Which means they have the skills to be engaged, informed and savvy citizens.
We need citizens like that.
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Stayed Too Long
When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send me into a tail spin of condemnation, and as a young guy you can imagine the sinful thoughts I was having minute by minute, hour by hour, etc. I would pray and pray begging God to cleanse my mind. I even sheepishly went to my priest asking him what to do. He didn’t want to talk about sex, but said he would leave some church literature hidden inside the confessional, for me to study. The promised readings never showed up. This really made be feel giulty that mymoriest forgot about me.
So after high school graduation I dropped out of the church and never went back.
Staying away from the church really left a hole in me spiritually for years, and felt I was hell bound, until one day a guy sat next to me in a cafe and started witnessing to me. He said if you believe Romans 10:9&10, you will go to heaven come hell or high water. Also God can work miracle through us….all we have to do is believe. I signed up for the PFAL class immediately and hurried through all the other classes so I could operate signs, miracle, and wonders. Even went WOW, WOW Ii, and signed up for the Way Corp.
But along the way I didn’t see any signs, miracles, and wonders happening. Didn’t even see someone get over a cold by having hands laid on them. This really got started me doubting what TWI was all about and seriously wanting to leave. But by then they had their hooks in me saying if I leave all my rewards will be lost. Blah, blah, blah, you know the rest.
Thr reason I finally got out was gecause they marked and avoided me.
So stumbling about again with God going to make me a grease spot by midnight, I felt terrible. Finding GSC was a life saver and got me at least on an even keel.
Then seeing all the trouble my life had been in because of God, I began thinking what good had he done for me. Slowing I began reading articles about people who were happy not believing in God.
I have never been happier and more content since becoming an atheist.
My daughter was born and raised in TWI, and is currently a happy Catholic. But if I were raising her today I would steer her away from any religion or God.
Edited by Stayed Too LongLink to comment
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Stayed Too Long
Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/06/religious-children-less-altruistic-secular-kids-study
The study found religious children, especially older ones, are meaner than their seculure counterparts.
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Rocky
That's sad, but I don't doubt the veracity of the study.
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Rocky
I realize this is
but I ask Stayed Too Long's indulgence.
More than a decade ago, I faced a hurricane of a storm in my life. My GSC posts at that time reflected the storm I was then immersed in.
I came out of the storm not the same person. I'm thankful for having gone through the storm and survived and grown as a person.
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Stayed Too Long
The storm I was facing in life was not seeing all the promises of God in my life and those around me come true. I had no choice but to conclude all the promises I was taught from childhood to adulthood were fraudulent, and had to reject them. If you reject God all that is left is to be an atheist. Becoming an atheist was a very good choice for me.
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Stayed Too Long
Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.
https://www.indy100.com/news/atheists-make-better-parents-parenting-study-research-7627036
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chockfull
So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper. It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.
Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.
Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?
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chockfull
My struggle with mine was avoiding the bondage that a fundamentalist Christian view brings and avoiding cult negative other impact.
Looking back I’m sure I could have been a better parent. I keep talking to my kids though so it’s not over yet.
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Stayed Too Long
Children eventually come to the realization that it is impossible for Santa Clause to deliver presents to all the good boys and girls around the world in one night.
Children also realize after a few years, that it is impossible for a rabbit to color and deliver millions of hard boiled eggs to parks and yards around the globe, every Easter morning.
These same children also arrive at the conclusion, that the tooth fairy did not actually replace a rotting tooth, places under their pillow, with a few dollars.
However, these same children, who have read in a book that a man made the waters of a sea part, continue to believe it, after no concrete evidence exists to prove it.
And, when the sea parted a bunch of nice people marched across it. Once all the good folks reached the other side of the ocean, God made the waters once again to come together, thus killing all the bad guys chasing them.
Then once all the good people gathered together on the other side of the sea, this same God, made them wonder about the desert for 40 years becuase they ....ed Him off. Of course, He did however, miraculously supply them with food for their entire 40 years of wondering. God also made them invisible to their enemies for the entire 40 years.
And when this loving God was about to deliver them from the desert after 40 years, He once again was ....ed off because the leader did something God did not like, so the leader had to die before allowing all the good people to enter the promised land.
Also, who can find someone that will change water into the finest wine? Or turn bread into fishes to feed thousands on a hillside? Or pray for a lame person and make him walk? I did a Google search for people cured of aids through prayer, but came up empty. Why has God not acted to free people of aids? People will say He has through medicine, but why did He wait so long and allow thousands to suffer and die from this hideous disease?
The Myth of life is Genesis to Revelations is a Myth.
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Rocky
Why would I? Why would you care?
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Nathan_Jr
Dionysus did it first.
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Stayed Too Long
I did a search on Dionydus, who was also known as Bacchus, and could not find any reference to him turning water into wine. Please provide a link.
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