I resist putting a label on myself, at least in terms of religious (or non) leanings. But I totally relate to this paragraph from your post on the link you provided above. Well, except for the yoga part. But I do have a favorite local gym/fitness center where I like to work out.
These days, I just try to enjoy the eclectic nature of my interests, spend time with friends and family, and soak up contemplative moments practicing a little yoga and meditation, and walking on the beach. And writing. When I think about this stage of my life, I can’t help but recall one of my favorite quotes. It is advice Shakespeare’s character, Polonius, a philosopher, gives his son as he leaves home, “This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.” (Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78-82).
Anyone who believes in, and especially one who continues to believe in, a God, after being exposed to the god’s cruel actions and requirements, is difficult to understand.
Imagine, if at all possible, a human father who starts his family, and says all will be wonderful until they commit one specific wrong. And once they do the wrong, the father will no longer communicate with them. He will leave them on their own for thousands of years, then later, he will send a brother to be tortured and crucified, and for some crazy reason, then this sick father will once again be happy, and will talk with his children again.
Of course this father will not accept responsibility for his nutty actions, but will blame it on someone he calls the devil, who he created in the first place. Supposedly the devil was like the father’s children, and was told he would be okay unless he sinned against the father. He also sinned against the father and was thrown out too. Now, the father has turned the devil loose, and the father has given him tremendous power to trick the fathers other children to make them sin. Then, deja vu, once again, the father will refuse to communicate with his kids until they beg him for forgiveness. If they die without getting his forgiveness, the child will be cut off from the father forever, and suffer eternally, with the devil. The devil and the sinning children are failed creations of the father.
This father is certainly not someone I have used as any type example to raise my children. If I did any of the acts of this cruel father, I would be in prison for the rest of my life, if not executed.
Looking for former members of The Way International (2005-2015)
Support Request
Hi all. I realize this may be a long shot and if anyone thinks this would be better off in a different subreddit please let me know.
I’m looking for information about TWI during these years or former members to connect with. I’ve browsed GreaseSpot Cafe and while I’ve only scratched the surface there, the community doesn’t seem to be what it used to be. So here I am.
Some extra info: I’m 23 currently. I lived at both Headquarters and at Camp Gunnison for several years. My parents were active members since around 2005 and served in The Way Corps. In 2010, TWI relocated us out of Camp Gunnison and although we were living off of the compound at this point, we were still involved in the ministry and hosted biweekly fellowships in our home. Because of family matters in the years to come, I’d say around 2014 my parents lessened their involvement with The Way. Even still, they still believed in the organization, tithed, attended local fellowships, etc. And that’s how things are currently.
Around 2015 I started to question everything. Christianity. The things I was taught to believe. How I grew up. Everything. All that to say, it’s been some time since I had my suspicions about The Way. But this year… this year I’ve had the urge to do get answers my parents won’t give me. To do some digging, research, and to hopefully heal. Again, I’m not sure if this is the right place to reach out or not but if anyone has any information they can give me or sites/forums for me to look into, please send it my way. Thank you.
****
I'm not sure what this person could or would expect of GSC.
However, my recommendation is to post some questions here (at GSC, not necessarily just this thread) as broadly or specifically as s/he would like. Hopefully people with related experience/insight will answer.
It appears the first two comments were removed by mods. That must be discouraging for her.
I posted a comment on her subreddit post hoping to start a discussion. You have more insight and perspective than I on the workings of the cult. I hope you will consider participating.
yeah stl, that's the kind of crap taught, not only by the way but many others
even the "fall of man" teachings was something that came out of the Nicene council
so much bs to unload to really see, it's gotta be god to show us truth
Hi cman
Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.
It appears the first two comments were removed by mods. That must be discouraging for her.
I posted a comment on her subreddit post hoping to start a discussion. You have more insight and perspective than I on the workings of the cult. I hope you will consider participating.
I hope she comes over here and interacts. There are only about 10 active posters and many have different beliefs and agendas, but if she wants the truth about the history of TWI and all of the detail about the Corps she will have to dig up some stories here.
Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.
Dude, I don't and wouldn't speak for cman, but really even if he was criticizing you, blow it off. In the grand scheme of things/life, it doesn't matter whether anyone here ever agrees with us or not.
Dude, I don't and wouldn't speak for cman, but really even if he was criticizing you, blow it off. In the grand scheme of things/life, it doesn't matter whether anyone here ever agrees with us or not.
Hey Dude, I am merely asking for clarification and wondering what his meaning was. Isn’t that the purpose of a discussion? If he is criticizing me, fine, I have no problem with it. Possibly we can come to an understanding.
In the grand scheme of things/life not too much that is posted on GSC matters if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. The reason it matters to me is someone trying to breakout from TWI can obtain support and understanding here. Reading a post may free them from the bondage they are in.
Hey Dude, I am merely asking for clarification and wondering what his meaning was. Isn’t that the purpose of a discussion? If he is criticizing me, fine, I have no problem with it. Possibly we can come to an understanding.
In the grand scheme of things/life not too much that is posted on GSC matters if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. The reason it matters to me is someone trying to breakout from TWI can obtain support and understanding here. Reading a post may free them from the bondage they are in.
Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.
I think he is kinda agreeing with you. As do I. I think it's reasonable to ask for clarity. I don't understand many of his posts. I, too, often wish he elaborated more.
Anyone who believes in, and especially one who continues to believe in, a God, after being exposed to the god’s cruel actions and requirements, is difficult to understand.
Imagine, if at all possible, a human father who starts his family, and says all will be wonderful until they commit one specific wrong. And once they do the wrong, the father will no longer communicate with them. He will leave them on their own for thousands of years, then later, he will send a brother to be tortured and crucified, and for some crazy reason, then this sick father will once again be happy, and will talk with his children again.
Of course this father will not accept responsibility for his nutty actions, but will blame it on someone he calls the devil, who he created in the first place. Supposedly the devil was like the father’s children, and was told he would be okay unless he sinned against the father. He also sinned against the father and was thrown out too. Now, the father has turned the devil loose, and the father has given him tremendous power to trick the fathers other children to make them sin. Then, deja vu, once again, the father will refuse to communicate with his kids until they beg him for forgiveness. If they die without getting his forgiveness, the child will be cut off from the father forever, and suffer eternally, with the devil. The devil and the sinning children are failed creations of the father.
This father is certainly not someone I have used as any type example to raise my children. If I did any of the acts of this cruel father, I would be in prison for the rest of my life, if not executed.
Anyone who believes in, and especially one who continues to believe in, a God, after being exposed to the god’s cruel actions and requirements, is difficult to understand.
Imagine, if at all possible, a human father who starts his family, and says all will be wonderful until they commit one specific wrong. And once they do the wrong, the father will no longer communicate with them. He will leave them on their own for thousands of years, then later, he will send a brother to be tortured and crucified, and for some crazy reason, then this sick father will once again be happy, and will talk with his children again.
Of course this father will not accept responsibility for his nutty actions, but will blame it on someone he calls the devil, who he created in the first place. Supposedly the devil was like the father’s children, and was told he would be okay unless he sinned against the father. He also sinned against the father and was thrown out too. Now, the father has turned the devil loose, and the father has given him tremendous power to trick the fathers other children to make them sin. Then, deja vu, once again, the father will refuse to communicate with his kids until they beg him for forgiveness. If they die without getting his forgiveness, the child will be cut off from the father forever, and suffer eternally, with the devil. The devil and the sinning children are failed creations of the father.
This father is certainly not someone I have used as any type example to raise my children. If I did any of the acts of this cruel father, I would be in prison for the rest of my life, if not executed.
Imagine if at all possible that instead of a human father, you have instead an entity that is the Creator of the Universe. Does being unlimited with respect to time and power change any aspect of your “gospel according to STL”?
If the only mental model your mind will accept is another entity just like you, what does that say for the future of mankind?
If you want to help others escape you have to accept diversity of opinion and belief.
If the bs you are referring to is my post about a crazy god who has caused extreme pain on the human race, then yes, I do believe it. If the bs concerns some teaching by TWI, please elaborate.
you have answered your own question, you are posting and believing twi teachings
To me, when it comes to teachings concerning a God or some supreme being, VPW’s teachings are as valid as any one elses. In my estimation none of them holds any water.
If some how from my postings you can pull out of the hat that I believe TWI’s teachings, you should start your own magic show. You are certainly a great illusionist that can only rival Houdini.
I realize GSC doesn't condemn those who no longer believe in God.
But I figure there are still followers of Wierwille's ministry who might benefit from this (probably quite salient) reflection.
Yes. A great friend of mine, now deceased, was once a staunch catholic, an altar boy too, but because of actions of priests he experienced through the years, was chilled away. And of course we know those who've been hurt in TWI. Some leave the faith, and some stick with it. Who is right? Who knows? Jesus have mercy on our souls.
Yes. A great friend of mine, now deceased, was once a staunch catholic, an altar boy too, but because of actions of priests he experienced through the years, was chilled away. And of course we know those who've been hurt in TWI. Some leave the faith, and some stick with it. Who is right? Who knows? Jesus have mercy on our souls.
Great comment. Yet, is it OUR place to determine who is right? Well, that's obviously a VERY broad question. My current view is the responsibility for said determination is between every human and her/his maker.
Recommended Posts
penworks
Okay, I'll say here that I'm agnostic.
Here's the scoop:
https://charleneedge.com/charlenes-post-cult-nonreligious-alternative/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Thanks for the link, Charlene.
I resist putting a label on myself, at least in terms of religious (or non) leanings. But I totally relate to this paragraph from your post on the link you provided above. Well, except for the yoga part. But I do have a favorite local gym/fitness center where I like to work out.
These days, I just try to enjoy the eclectic nature of my interests, spend time with friends and family, and soak up contemplative moments practicing a little yoga and meditation, and walking on the beach. And writing. When I think about this stage of my life, I can’t help but recall one of my favorite quotes. It is advice Shakespeare’s character, Polonius, a philosopher, gives his son as he leaves home, “This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.” (Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78-82).
Edited by RockyLink to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
Anyone who believes in, and especially one who continues to believe in, a God, after being exposed to the god’s cruel actions and requirements, is difficult to understand.
Imagine, if at all possible, a human father who starts his family, and says all will be wonderful until they commit one specific wrong. And once they do the wrong, the father will no longer communicate with them. He will leave them on their own for thousands of years, then later, he will send a brother to be tortured and crucified, and for some crazy reason, then this sick father will once again be happy, and will talk with his children again.
Of course this father will not accept responsibility for his nutty actions, but will blame it on someone he calls the devil, who he created in the first place. Supposedly the devil was like the father’s children, and was told he would be okay unless he sinned against the father. He also sinned against the father and was thrown out too. Now, the father has turned the devil loose, and the father has given him tremendous power to trick the fathers other children to make them sin. Then, deja vu, once again, the father will refuse to communicate with his kids until they beg him for forgiveness. If they die without getting his forgiveness, the child will be cut off from the father forever, and suffer eternally, with the devil. The devil and the sinning children are failed creations of the father.
This father is certainly not someone I have used as any type example to raise my children. If I did any of the acts of this cruel father, I would be in prison for the rest of my life, if not executed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
yeah stl, that's the kind of crap taught, not only by the way but many others
even the "fall of man" teachings was something that came out of the Nicene council
so much bs to unload to really see, it's gotta be god to show us truth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
https://reddit.com/r/cultsurvivors/s/KmD4qsE1Ye
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
This person posted:
Looking for former members of The Way International (2005-2015)
Support Request
Hi all. I realize this may be a long shot and if anyone thinks this would be better off in a different subreddit please let me know.
I’m looking for information about TWI during these years or former members to connect with. I’ve browsed GreaseSpot Cafe and while I’ve only scratched the surface there, the community doesn’t seem to be what it used to be. So here I am.
Some extra info: I’m 23 currently. I lived at both Headquarters and at Camp Gunnison for several years. My parents were active members since around 2005 and served in The Way Corps. In 2010, TWI relocated us out of Camp Gunnison and although we were living off of the compound at this point, we were still involved in the ministry and hosted biweekly fellowships in our home. Because of family matters in the years to come, I’d say around 2014 my parents lessened their involvement with The Way. Even still, they still believed in the organization, tithed, attended local fellowships, etc. And that’s how things are currently.
Around 2015 I started to question everything. Christianity. The things I was taught to believe. How I grew up. Everything. All that to say, it’s been some time since I had my suspicions about The Way. But this year… this year I’ve had the urge to do get answers my parents won’t give me. To do some digging, research, and to hopefully heal. Again, I’m not sure if this is the right place to reach out or not but if anyone has any information they can give me or sites/forums for me to look into, please send it my way. Thank you.
****
I'm not sure what this person could or would expect of GSC.
However, my recommendation is to post some questions here (at GSC, not necessarily just this thread) as broadly or specifically as s/he would like. Hopefully people with related experience/insight will answer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Thanks.
It appears the first two comments were removed by mods. That must be discouraging for her.
I posted a comment on her subreddit post hoping to start a discussion. You have more insight and perspective than I on the workings of the cult. I hope you will consider participating.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
Hi cman
Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I hope she comes over here and interacts. There are only about 10 active posters and many have different beliefs and agendas, but if she wants the truth about the history of TWI and all of the detail about the Corps she will have to dig up some stories here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Dude, I don't and wouldn't speak for cman, but really even if he was criticizing you, blow it off. In the grand scheme of things/life, it doesn't matter whether anyone here ever agrees with us or not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
Hey Dude, I am merely asking for clarification and wondering what his meaning was. Isn’t that the purpose of a discussion? If he is criticizing me, fine, I have no problem with it. Possibly we can come to an understanding.
In the grand scheme of things/life not too much that is posted on GSC matters if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. The reason it matters to me is someone trying to breakout from TWI can obtain support and understanding here. Reading a post may free them from the bondage they are in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Ok then!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
I think he is kinda agreeing with you. As do I. I think it's reasonable to ask for clarity. I don't understand many of his posts. I, too, often wish he elaborated more.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
seems the natural conclusion to what twi teaches
I don't know if you believe that bs or not
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Imagine if at all possible that instead of a human father, you have instead an entity that is the Creator of the Universe. Does being unlimited with respect to time and power change any aspect of your “gospel according to STL”?
If the only mental model your mind will accept is another entity just like you, what does that say for the future of mankind?
If you want to help others escape you have to accept diversity of opinion and belief.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
yes... YES! it's a small step actually but big in attaining our sense of being
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
o brother, where art thou? lol just kidding....
you have answered your own question, you are posting and believing twi teachings
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
To me, when it comes to teachings concerning a God or some supreme being, VPW’s teachings are as valid as any one elses. In my estimation none of them holds any water.
If some how from my postings you can pull out of the hat that I believe TWI’s teachings, you should start your own magic show. You are certainly a great illusionist that can only rival Houdini.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
no they are not
if god can force someone to not do something then he could force someone to do something as well...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
To recap:
The topic is NOT Victor Wierwille's teachings. It's not Loy C Martindale's teaching.
What did Gandhi say?
The topic is THIS
Edited by RockyLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Yes. A great friend of mine, now deceased, was once a staunch catholic, an altar boy too, but because of actions of priests he experienced through the years, was chilled away. And of course we know those who've been hurt in TWI. Some leave the faith, and some stick with it. Who is right? Who knows? Jesus have mercy on our souls.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Great comment. Yet, is it OUR place to determine who is right? Well, that's obviously a VERY broad question. My current view is the responsibility for said determination is between every human and her/his maker.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.