In my early twenties I was fluent in Spanish. I spent a summer in Central America — an experience so immersive I dreamt in Spanish. I wouldn’t call myself bilingual, but I always speak Spanish with the landscapers and the guys at the taqueria.
I also studied Latin, French and Italian many moons ago. Knowing French and Italian was useful when I was in the wine business. Latin is always just under the surface, easily seen if I care to look.
I’m interested in language. I used to be rather geeky about it. Still love it, but it’s just not a muscle I exercise like I used to.
On the occasions when you speak in Spanish, do you have to make a conscious effort to think "differently"?
Yeah, that's an interesting question. The less practiced I am, the more conscious effort seems to be in play. It could be that I'm aware of my deficiency and am making an effort to choose the right words, tenses, conjugations, etc. Generally, the effort tends to be counterproductive.
When I used to speak it regularly, daily, whether in class or living in Central America, it was effortless. No thought.
My family is a multilingual family. I'm still learning Spanish. Once I've learned Spanish, I'm going to work on German- which sounds a lot like English compared to the "Romance" languages that descended from Latin.
The Mrs is fluent in English and Spanish, and knows some French and a little German. She studies other languages for fun, here and there.
Wordpup is fluent in English and Spanish. When he was tiny, we taught him both from Day 1. Experts say that, if you do that, 2 things will happen. One, it will delay his speaking slightly overall. Two, he will learn not only the languages, but how to learn languages, so his brain will process translation faster and take faster to learning other languages. I think they're correct. He's studying Portuguese in school, and French outside of school here and there.
Sometimes when I speak in Spanish, I have to think "Spanish", and sometimes it seems automatic. Sometimes I'm not aware when I'm thinking in Spanish for a bit. Also, if you're translating languages out loud, you really DO have to be careful which language you use to which person. Yes, you can end up speaking the wrong language to the wrong person, in both directions. In most situations, I think the unspoken rule is that people will switch to the language of a speaker, if they know that language. Sometimes that's subconscious, sometimes that's intentional.
Not another language, but I have lived for long periods (years) in other English-speaking countries. And there's a different way of thinking, different sets of national expectations (as it were), so the inhabitants speak and act a little differently. Use English a little differently.
In my native country, there've been times when I've got "stuck" and it was only when I was thinking like someone in the other country that I managed to move forward. ("If I were in xxx now, how would I handle this problem?") A bit strange, but it worked.
I learned other languages in school, but never really used them.
When I was in high school, 50+ years ago, everyone had to choose a language elective. I chose Spanish and stuck with that throughout high school. I never became fluent, but I was pretty good at understanding conversations around me. (There are so many variations spoken throughout the world.) I worked, for a while, with a guy who grew up in Spain and even he ran into problems translating when someone joined our crew from Mexico or Central America. Mostly, the problems involved variations in vocabulary.
In college, I tried my hand at ASL. My success was abysmal. All props to those amazing individuals who can render translation on the fly.
More recently, I spent several years working beside someone who was born and raised in S. Korea. I am in awe of how well she has been able to grasp the vocabulary and grammatical nuances of English. She still struggles with pronunciation and this is totally understandable. Korean has sounds that don't exist in English and English has sounds that don't exist in Korean. I started learning Korean as somewhat of a friendly challenge. My progress has been...let's just say ... slow. My chances of ever becoming fluent are about as good as my chances of pitching a no-hitter in the World Series. But that's OK. Learning about the food, the history, the culture, the day-to-day lifestyle has been just as rewarding as learning the language itself. It's really opened my eyes to how translation is so much more than trading "this" word for "that" word.
HERE is an interesting link that talks about how the U.S. government trains employees in foreign languages.
When looking at Bibles alone, the three options are- translating word for word, translating concept for concept, and paraphrases. If you take your Bible translations more seriously, you probably use a word-for-word like the NASB. If you're using a concept-for-concept, the NIV might be your cup of tea. As for paraphrases, many sound pretty but I have zero confidence in them for anything resembling accuracy. Any time the translator thinks he understands something, you can be buried in a concept that was never there in the first place.
Interestingly enough, in casual practice, when I'm translating between English and Spanish, I usually paraphrase (I know what I meant in the first place) or concept for concept translate.
Some languages don't render word-for-word as much as others do. Koine Greek and German are two of those languages, where one word in those languages is commonly a whole phrase in English or Spanish. That's not even getting into languages without alphabets. (I keep thinking that those languages will slowly adopt alphabets due to computer usage.)
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Nathan_Jr
In my early twenties I was fluent in Spanish. I spent a summer in Central America — an experience so immersive I dreamt in Spanish. I wouldn’t call myself bilingual, but I always speak Spanish with the landscapers and the guys at the taqueria.
I also studied Latin, French and Italian many moons ago. Knowing French and Italian was useful when I was in the wine business. Latin is always just under the surface, easily seen if I care to look.
I’m interested in language. I used to be rather geeky about it. Still love it, but it’s just not a muscle I exercise like I used to.
Oh, did I mention I’m trilingual in glossolalia?
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waysider
I think you may have mentioned that.
On the occasions when you speak in Spanish, do you have to make a conscious effort to think "differently"?
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Nathan_Jr
Yeah, that's an interesting question. The less practiced I am, the more conscious effort seems to be in play. It could be that I'm aware of my deficiency and am making an effort to choose the right words, tenses, conjugations, etc. Generally, the effort tends to be counterproductive.
When I used to speak it regularly, daily, whether in class or living in Central America, it was effortless. No thought.
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WordWolf
My family is a multilingual family. I'm still learning Spanish. Once I've learned Spanish, I'm going to work on German- which sounds a lot like English compared to the "Romance" languages that descended from Latin.
The Mrs is fluent in English and Spanish, and knows some French and a little German. She studies other languages for fun, here and there.
Wordpup is fluent in English and Spanish. When he was tiny, we taught him both from Day 1. Experts say that, if you do that, 2 things will happen. One, it will delay his speaking slightly overall. Two, he will learn not only the languages, but how to learn languages, so his brain will process translation faster and take faster to learning other languages. I think they're correct. He's studying Portuguese in school, and French outside of school here and there.
Sometimes when I speak in Spanish, I have to think "Spanish", and sometimes it seems automatic. Sometimes I'm not aware when I'm thinking in Spanish for a bit. Also, if you're translating languages out loud, you really DO have to be careful which language you use to which person. Yes, you can end up speaking the wrong language to the wrong person, in both directions. In most situations, I think the unspoken rule is that people will switch to the language of a speaker, if they know that language. Sometimes that's subconscious, sometimes that's intentional.
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Twinky
Not another language, but I have lived for long periods (years) in other English-speaking countries. And there's a different way of thinking, different sets of national expectations (as it were), so the inhabitants speak and act a little differently. Use English a little differently.
In my native country, there've been times when I've got "stuck" and it was only when I was thinking like someone in the other country that I managed to move forward. ("If I were in xxx now, how would I handle this problem?") A bit strange, but it worked.
I learned other languages in school, but never really used them.
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waysider
When I was in high school, 50+ years ago, everyone had to choose a language elective. I chose Spanish and stuck with that throughout high school. I never became fluent, but I was pretty good at understanding conversations around me. (There are so many variations spoken throughout the world.) I worked, for a while, with a guy who grew up in Spain and even he ran into problems translating when someone joined our crew from Mexico or Central America. Mostly, the problems involved variations in vocabulary.
In college, I tried my hand at ASL. My success was abysmal. All props to those amazing individuals who can render translation on the fly.
More recently, I spent several years working beside someone who was born and raised in S. Korea. I am in awe of how well she has been able to grasp the vocabulary and grammatical nuances of English. She still struggles with pronunciation and this is totally understandable. Korean has sounds that don't exist in English and English has sounds that don't exist in Korean. I started learning Korean as somewhat of a friendly challenge. My progress has been...let's just say ... slow. My chances of ever becoming fluent are about as good as my chances of pitching a no-hitter in the World Series. But that's OK. Learning about the food, the history, the culture, the day-to-day lifestyle has been just as rewarding as learning the language itself. It's really opened my eyes to how translation is so much more than trading "this" word for "that" word.
HERE is an interesting link that talks about how the U.S. government trains employees in foreign languages.
Edited by waysiderwording
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WordWolf
When looking at Bibles alone, the three options are- translating word for word, translating concept for concept, and paraphrases. If you take your Bible translations more seriously, you probably use a word-for-word like the NASB. If you're using a concept-for-concept, the NIV might be your cup of tea. As for paraphrases, many sound pretty but I have zero confidence in them for anything resembling accuracy. Any time the translator thinks he understands something, you can be buried in a concept that was never there in the first place.
Interestingly enough, in casual practice, when I'm translating between English and Spanish, I usually paraphrase (I know what I meant in the first place) or concept for concept translate.
Some languages don't render word-for-word as much as others do. Koine Greek and German are two of those languages, where one word in those languages is commonly a whole phrase in English or Spanish. That's not even getting into languages without alphabets. (I keep thinking that those languages will slowly adopt alphabets due to computer usage.)
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