As I use it, it is ONLY an emotional condition precluding the need to FIND an outside entity/group to which you would feel the need to join in order to have the "sense of belonging."
We agree that it is an emotional condition, but I see it as a false sense of strength and not at all emotionally mature nor emotionally intelligent. The way I see it, a sense of belonging is a seductive illusion. it is a form of attachment that can devolve into codependency. The emotionally mature pays attention and is aware of the risk.
Take the child raised in a family loyal to the "teachings" of victor paul wierwille. Surely, it is incumbent on this family to reinforce the child's sense of belonging. The child finds strength in identifying with the distinctiveness of the family. He is strong and maturing in the word, he is told. He is IN fellowship. He feels a sense of pride rightly dividing -- this is distinctive to what his family DOES. His identification with his family is comfortable, it is safe, it is warm, it is protective, it is strengthening.
This reinforced identification with his family is not a sign of maturity or intelligence, rather, it is attachment. It is identification with something outside of himself that, though strong, is unhealthy. He is so emotionally strong, convinced, that the need to find an outside group to fulfill a desire for a sense of belonging is precluded.
We agree that it is an emotional condition, but I see it as a false sense of strength and not at all emotionally mature nor emotionally intelligent. The way I see it, a sense of belonging is a seductive illusion. it is a form of attachment that can devolve into codependency. The emotionally mature pays attention and is aware of the risk.
Take the child raised in a family loyal to the "teachings" of victor paul wierwille. Surely, it is incumbent on this family to reinforce the child's sense of belonging. The child finds strength in identifying with the distinctiveness of the family. He is strong and maturing in the word, he is told. He is IN fellowship. He feels a sense of pride rightly dividing -- this is distinctive to what his family DOES. His identification with his family is comfortable, it is safe, it is warm, it is protective, it is strengthening.
This reinforced identification with his family is not a sign or maturity or intelligence, rather, it is attachment. It is identification with something outside of himself that, though strong, is unhealthy. He is so emotionally strong, convinced, that the need to find an outside group to fulfill a desire for a sense of belonging is precluded.
Children are supposed to grow up leave home and build something new. This emphasis on soft skills distances people's minds from reality. Like they'll just easily fit into the next mold. Struggling with something? Someone else needs to make room for your "sense of belonging".
"While Baumeister and Leary were unable to recall why they chose the word “belong,” the more clunky “need to be accepted and belong” may be clearer, as is “the desire for social connections with both people and people in a group.”
Belonging researchers also need greater agreement on terminology, measures, and definitions to create greater clarity around the implications of their findings for schools. They also need to improve how they communicate their findings to a broader audience."
Tobuild strong children reinforce their sense of desire for social connections with both people and people in a family by articulating exactly what is distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride “Our family rightly divides the word.”
Children are supposed to grow up leave home and build something new. This emphasis on soft skills distances people's minds from reality. Like they'll just easily fit into the next mold. Struggling with something? Someone else needs to make room for your "sense of belonging".
I hope you emerge from the crucible in which you seem entrenched very soon.
I hope you emerge from the crucible in which you seem entrenched very soon.
I'll take "crucible" as a metaphor for "class struggle" . . .
I mean, once everyone feels they belong. . . . Then what? Will there now be a Pareto distribution of belonging many will suddenly sense? Some are certainly going feel a greater sense than others. Will there be a Pareto, re-distribution?
"Belonging researchers" seem to be unsure what they mean or need to mean. Moveable goalposts help to divert the attention. Verbosity further distracts.
I asked very early on, some 2K posts ago, why we feel the need to belong to anything. Similar answers were given then as now: We are social beings with an innate desire to belong. Indeed, we are social beings. But WHY do we desire to belong to a group? Why do we clutch and cling to something outside ourselves for strength? Can we participate in a group without attachment, without identifying with that group?
What do we lack? Are we lonely? Insecure? Are we uncomfortable being alone? Must relationship with another imply attachment? Is love transactional? Must we identify with a group, a family, an ideology to feel whole, secure, strong?
Can we pay attention to this? Can we look deeply at this? Are we truly aware of ourselves?
I didn't fit in with my fellowship because I didn't DESIRE anything from them. They CLAIMED I NEEDED their ideology. They saw me as weak because I wouldn't submit and BELONG to their group identity. They resented that I could be so generous, kind, tolerant, forgiving, and at peace.
My strength and identity and self worth was not dependent on my belonging to the "family" of the household of the word according to the bloody gloves of wierwille's demonstrably false private interpretations. I didn't need to be validated through belonging to their cult. I belonged to nothing, I attached to nothing. At least, I tried to pay attention to this.
Fear is not of the unknown. Fear is of losing the known, the knowledge put together by the thoughts of man. Fear, emotional immaturity, weakness motivates attachment.
I'll take "crucible" as a metaphor for "class struggle" . . .
I mean, once everyone feels they belong. . . . Then what? Will there now be a Pareto distribution of belonging many will suddenly sense? Some are certainly going feel a greater sense than others. Will there be a Pareto, re-distribution?
It's not a metaphor for anything. In case you're unable to look things up yourself,
nounAn extremely difficult experience or situation; a severe test or trial:synonym:trial.
One (including me) would hope you would successfully emerge from the situation having had substantial emotional healing and growth.
You do know I neither invited you to this discussion nor barely tolerate you, right?
Honestly, I don't seem to be getting through to you. It's NOT about belonging to any external group or entity.
But I do appreciate realizing the participants in this discussion are somehow unable to grasp the key insight. Maybe I'll be able to figure out how to get the point across someday.
I asked very early on, some 2K posts ago, why we feel the need to belong to anything. Similar answers were given then as now: We are social beings with an innate desire to belong. Indeed, we are social beings. But WHY do we desire to belong to a group?
Meaningful social (acceptance) attachments where we FEEL like we're seen and heard and understood.
I just don't know why this subject is so difficult.
How can "sense of belonging" be used in a practical sense? I don't see how "sense of belonging" can be a goal. Perhaps a byproduct, and subjective. Not objectively measurable.
See, here's the thing, Rocky, there are lots of folks out there in the real world who don't have a solid grasp of what "family" even means. That's partly why they aspire to become gangbangers and Kia Boyz.
See, here's the thing, Rocky, there are lots of folks out there in the real world who don't have a solid grasp of what "family" even means. That's partly why they aspire to become gangbangers and Kia Boyz.
That's true, but clearly outside the scope of the topic of this thread.
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Nathan_Jr
I think about this everyday, because it is very real for me and my son. I challenge him. Anything he says that I discern as regurgitating the thoughts or dogma of peers, deluded adults, media, wi
waysider
I'm not trolling. It's possible I don't understand what kind of answers you're looking for. You do your best to guide them in understanding how to think for themselves and advise them on what is and w
waysider
I'm having a hard time finding a way to explain what I meant when I raised the issue of ethnocentricity. I'll try, though. In The Way, we were fed the idea that "our" group was somehow bet
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Rocky
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Rocky
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Bolshevik
We are to fight "sense of belonging" with "sense of belonging"?
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Rocky
Now, where is that confounded MUTE button?
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Bolshevik
We used to say "humans are social creatures"
Then came "sense of belonging"
Which nobody can get clear on
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Nathan_Jr
We agree that it is an emotional condition, but I see it as a false sense of strength and not at all emotionally mature nor emotionally intelligent. The way I see it, a sense of belonging is a seductive illusion. it is a form of attachment that can devolve into codependency. The emotionally mature pays attention and is aware of the risk.
Take the child raised in a family loyal to the "teachings" of victor paul wierwille. Surely, it is incumbent on this family to reinforce the child's sense of belonging. The child finds strength in identifying with the distinctiveness of the family. He is strong and maturing in the word, he is told. He is IN fellowship. He feels a sense of pride rightly dividing -- this is distinctive to what his family DOES. His identification with his family is comfortable, it is safe, it is warm, it is protective, it is strengthening.
This reinforced identification with his family is not a sign of maturity or intelligence, rather, it is attachment. It is identification with something outside of himself that, though strong, is unhealthy. He is so emotionally strong, convinced, that the need to find an outside group to fulfill a desire for a sense of belonging is precluded.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/sense-belonging/202202/the-science-behind-our-need-belong
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Bolshevik
Attachment. Indeed.
Children are supposed to grow up leave home and build something new. This emphasis on soft skills distances people's minds from reality. Like they'll just easily fit into the next mold. Struggling with something? Someone else needs to make room for your "sense of belonging".
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Nathan_Jr
"While Baumeister and Leary were unable to recall why they chose the word “belong,” the more clunky “need to be accepted and belong” may be clearer, as is “the desire for social connections with both people and people in a group.”
Belonging researchers also need greater agreement on terminology, measures, and definitions to create greater clarity around the implications of their findings for schools. They also need to improve how they communicate their findings to a broader audience."
To build strong children
reinforce their sense
of desire for social connections with both people and people in a family
by articulating exactly what is
distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride
“Our family rightly divides the word.”
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Rocky
I hope you emerge from the crucible in which you seem entrenched very soon.
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Bolshevik
I'll take "crucible" as a metaphor for "class struggle" . . .
I mean, once everyone feels they belong. . . . Then what? Will there now be a Pareto distribution of belonging many will suddenly sense? Some are certainly going feel a greater sense than others. Will there be a Pareto, re-distribution?
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Nathan_Jr
"Belonging researchers" seem to be unsure what they mean or need to mean. Moveable goalposts help to divert the attention. Verbosity further distracts.
I asked very early on, some 2K posts ago, why we feel the need to belong to anything. Similar answers were given then as now: We are social beings with an innate desire to belong. Indeed, we are social beings. But WHY do we desire to belong to a group? Why do we clutch and cling to something outside ourselves for strength? Can we participate in a group without attachment, without identifying with that group?
What do we lack? Are we lonely? Insecure? Are we uncomfortable being alone? Must relationship with another imply attachment? Is love transactional? Must we identify with a group, a family, an ideology to feel whole, secure, strong?
Can we pay attention to this? Can we look deeply at this? Are we truly aware of ourselves?
I didn't fit in with my fellowship because I didn't DESIRE anything from them. They CLAIMED I NEEDED their ideology. They saw me as weak because I wouldn't submit and BELONG to their group identity. They resented that I could be so generous, kind, tolerant, forgiving, and at peace.
My strength and identity and self worth was not dependent on my belonging to the "family" of the household of the word according to the bloody gloves of wierwille's demonstrably false private interpretations. I didn't need to be validated through belonging to their cult. I belonged to nothing, I attached to nothing. At least, I tried to pay attention to this.
Fear is not of the unknown. Fear is of losing the known, the knowledge put together by the thoughts of man. Fear, emotional immaturity, weakness motivates attachment.
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waysider
Sing with me, now...
"I'm so glad
I'm a part
Of the fa...."
Hey! Just a cotton pickin' minute!
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Rocky
It's not a metaphor for anything. In case you're unable to look things up yourself,
One (including me) would hope you would successfully emerge from the situation having had substantial emotional healing and growth.
You do know I neither invited you to this discussion nor barely tolerate you, right?
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Rocky
Honestly, I don't seem to be getting through to you. It's NOT about belonging to any external group or entity.
But I do appreciate realizing the participants in this discussion are somehow unable to grasp the key insight. Maybe I'll be able to figure out how to get the point across someday.
Amor fati.
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Rocky
Meaningful social (acceptance) attachments where we FEEL like we're seen and heard and understood.
I just don't know why this subject is so difficult.
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Bolshevik
Clap your hands!
. . . But there was still a pecking order.
How can "sense of belonging" be used in a practical sense? I don't see how "sense of belonging" can be a goal. Perhaps a byproduct, and subjective. Not objectively measurable.
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Rocky
Another way to state a related question might be, "WHY are humans vulnerable to cults in the first place?"
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waysider
See, here's the thing, Rocky, there are lots of folks out there in the real world who don't have a solid grasp of what "family" even means. That's partly why they aspire to become gangbangers and Kia Boyz.
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Rocky
That's true, but clearly outside the scope of the topic of this thread.
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Rocky
And how can parents raising their children inoculate THEIR children from cult predation?
This is the essence of the question I intended to be the subject of this thread.
Any ideas?
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Bolshevik
Okay, to innocuoate your own kids you need to have parental rights. Then once you have rights, exercise them.
Once they become adults, that's up to them.
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waysider
This it in a nutshell.
But, if someone or something usurps those rights, all bets are off the table on what the outcome will be.
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Rocky
If only you weren't so #%^&*#ing obtuse.
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