Emotional maturity, the strength at issue here, is about inner peace and strength. In contrast, those who champion and cling to the distinctiveness of (only) their own families, IMO, dramatically lack emotional maturity (and intelligence).
I'll ask, again, is emotional maturity and strength and inner peace built up by a sense of belonging? This is what I am questioning. This is where we disagree. And that is ok.
It's not a matter of lack of curiosity or explanation.
20 hours ago, Rocky said:
Belonging is an emotional...concept.
Agreed. Is reinforcing a sense of belonging emotional strength? Or is it a step towards codependency?
It seems to me the emotionally intelligent can see this potential pitfall and pay attention to attachments. Those with inner peace and strength and emotional maturity do not feel the need to belong to any group, the need to find strength outside themselves.
Perhaps the quoted text doesn't stand alone so well outside the context of the book. Maybe it's not an effective meme.
Tobuildstrong children
reinforce their sense
of belonging to a family
by articulating exactlywhat is
distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride
“Our family does X.”
I'm having a hard time finding a way to explain what I meant when I raised the issue of ethnocentricity. I'll try, though.
In The Way, we were fed the idea that "our" group was somehow better than "their" group. Hey, I mean, they were just empties floating by, right?, while we held all the power of the universe at our fingertips. But, how do you maintain that personal conviction? Simple. You "renew you mind" to the prescribed beliefs and become like-minded with each other. You foster a sense of belonging. Of course, in the process, you sacrifice your own sense of personal identity.
I appreciate what you're saying. I agree with your explanation and understanding of "us vs them." It's not "enthno" centric, as I understand it.
prefixMeaningrace(in the sense of classification of human beings).
That's a totally different concept from teaching and training children to grow into emotionally intelligent and mature individuals, and therefore less susceptible to cults. IMO.
I'll ask, again, is emotional maturity and strength and inner peace built up by a sense of belonging? This is what I am questioning. This is where we disagree. And that is ok.
It's not a matter of lack of curiosity or explanation.
Agreed. Is reinforcing a sense of belonging emotional strength? Or is it a step towards codependency?
It seems to me the emotionally intelligent can see this potential pitfall and pay attention to attachments. Those with inner peace and strength and emotional maturity do not feel the need to belong to any group, the need to find strength outside themselves.
Perhaps the quoted text doesn't stand alone so we'll outside the context of the book. Maybe it's not an effective meme.
Tobuildstrong children
reinforce their sense
of belonging to a family
by articulating exactlywhat is
distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride
“Our family does X.”
Perhaps it's not (an effective meme).
Are you reading trying to figure out my intended meaning? Or are you not?
For example, Bolshevik's responses reflect his brazenly obvious effort to derail the thread and make it into political hogwash. How?
Instead of asking for clarification, he makes declarations. "It is..." rather than "did you mean?"
Btw, to make a distinction btwn twi and what the author of the book seems to have been trying to communicate, “Our family does X.” is NOT equal to "Our family IS _____."
Since each (most?) of us herehas parented small children, ask yourself whether you told your toddler they were bad or whether what they were doing (at a moment you wanted to change their behavior) was unacceptable.
emotional maturity and strength and inner peace built up by a sense of belonging? This is what I am questioning.
Well, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure there's a linear answer to your question.
However, if your child feels emotionally secure in your home/family (which I view as a sense of belonging in that family), do you believe that will aid or compliment development of emotional maturity and strength and inner peace?
Perhaps it's not a straight line from one to the other, as there likely are other complex factors that may help or hinder such development?
On my sixty-eighth birthday, I decided to give my young adult children some advice. I am not a frequent advice giver but soon I was able to write down 68 bits. To my surprise, I had more to say than I thought. So for the next several years I wrote down a batch of advice on my birthday, and shared it with my family and friends. They wanted more. I kept going until I had about 450 bits of advice I wished I’d known when I was younger. I am primarily channeling the wisdom of the ages.
I am offering advice I have heard from others, or timeless knowledge repeated from the past, or a modern aphorism that matched my own experience.
I doubt any of it is truly original, although I have tried to put everything in my own words. I think of these bits as seeds because each one of them could easily be expanded into a long essay.
Indeed, I have spent most of my time writing by compressing these substantial lessons into as compact and tweetable forms as possible. You are encouraged to expand these seeds as you read to fill your own situation. If you find these proverbs align with your experience, share them with someone younger than yourself. —Kevin Kelly, Pacifica, California, 2023
Kelly, Kevin. Excellent Advice for Living (pp. 1-2). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
OTOH, if you DON'T find any such value, by all means, ignore them.
What exactly do (each or any of) you expect to accomplish by bickering with me or with the thoughts of Kevin Kelly?
Meaningrace(in the sense of classification of human beings).
That can certainly enter into it, but it can also be understood, in a broader sense, to apply to a specific culture, nation or group, while having no racial implications.
According to the linked website, the current world population exceeds 8 billion people.
I cite this for perspective. What in the world makes you think ANYONE of those 8Billion+ people are or will be influenced by your arguments on this thread?
I started the thread with a view and intent to consider and hopefully get discussion about what might work, or be helpful in figuring out how to inoculate young adults against the predation of cults.
That can certainly enter into it, but it can also be understood, in a broader sense, to apply to a specific culture, nation or group, while having no racial implications.
Fine. Granting your expanded definition, it is still unrelated to the meme and the thread.
I started the thread with a view and intent to consider and hopefully get discussion about what might work, or be helpful in figuring out how to inoculate young adults against the predation of cults.
Got any insight on that issue?
I get that it's a HUGE question. But it's NOT about raising kids to think in terms of "us vs them."
The opening post comes across perverted. How dare he. Just read it.
The real world context of how "sense of belonging" is being used has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
If the thread is merely to engage in fantasy, then that would make more sense to me.
Clearly, you don't seem to grasp the concept of communication theory. Pointed out to me? Pointing out to me what you want me to have meant is totally meaningless.
Are you reading trying to figure out my intended meaning? Or are you not?
I am, indeed, trying to understand your intended meaning. It's not a meme if the intended meaning has to be explained.
I've addressed your intended meaning and have asked questions to advance the discussion. I'm not fighting with you.
I just disagree with the proposition that strong children are made by reinforcing a sense of belonging and championing the distinctiveness of that sense of belonging. Though, I agree that emotional maturity has to do with inner peace and strength, we disagree that it is advanced through reinforcing a sense of belonging.
I hope to always pay attention to this desire for sense of belonging. Does a desire for a sense of belonging reinforce emotional maturity? Or can one even experience a healthy sense of belonging before reaching emotional maturity? Is inner peace dependent of a sense of belonging to something outside ourselves? Or is inner peace a contentment that is not dependent on any variable or desire?
A risk of seeking and finding inner peace and strength through reinforcing a sense of belonging is codependency and loss of individual identity. Conditions I hope we can agree is not the fruit of emotional maturity or emotional intelligence.
A risk of seeking and finding inner peace and strength through reinforcing a sense of belonging is codependency and loss of individual identity. Conditions I hope we can agree is not the fruit of emotional maturity or emotional intelligence.
Well, I don't agree with this point. No part of what I have suggested is at all related to codependency OR loss of individual identity.
However, I recognize you're not bickering. I don't take your input as at all destructive, though it's clear we're not "getting" each other.
I just disagree with the proposition that strong children are made by reinforcing a sense of belonging and championing the distinctiveness of that sense of belonging. Though, I agree that emotional maturity has to do with inner peace and strength, we disagree that it is advanced through reinforcing a sense of belonging.
It's possible you and I are not responding to each other from a common understanding of what "a sense of belonging" means.
As I use it, it is ONLY an emotional condition precluding the need to FIND an outside entity/group to which you would feel the need to join in order to have the "sense of belonging."
It seems, that's not necessarily the same as what you have meant. Are you able to clarify it for me?
Btw, a better understanding of the "real world context" of sense of belonging might be found here.
No, real world context is found in the real world.
"Sense of belonging" is used as part of a bait and switch to build a "sense of family" of children in the school system. Biological parents are now coparents with the staff.
Insights into the history, present, and future of belonging research.
Belonging has been a hard construct for researchers to define and conceptualise because its meaning is often drawn from what predicts it or what outcomes emerge from experiencing it. It is well known that being part of something and feeling like you belong somewhere, such as in a group, feels good to most people. And while research on belonging took place before 1995, it didn't go much further than this.
However, in 1995, Baumeister and Leary’s landmark paper, “The need to belong: Desire for interpersonal attachments as a fundamental human motivation,” firmly identified belonging as a universal human need, ingrained in our motivation as a species and stemming deeply from our ancestral roots. The paper resulted in a significant change in our understanding of belonging especially as it relates to our thoughts, feelings, and behaviour.
Loneliness, caring for an older population, and school violence are just some of the problems people face today. Research on belonging has played an important role in responding to these problems and offers great relevance to educational psychology. Belonging significantly impacts student wellbeing, achievement behaviour, and mental health, making it a critically important topic for study. [Not to mention vulnerability to cult predation]
No, real world context is found in the real world.
"Sense of belonging" is used as part of a bait and switch to build a "sense of family" of children in the school system. Biological parents are now coparents with the staff.
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Nathan_Jr
I think about this everyday, because it is very real for me and my son. I challenge him. Anything he says that I discern as regurgitating the thoughts or dogma of peers, deluded adults, media, wi
waysider
I'm not trolling. It's possible I don't understand what kind of answers you're looking for. You do your best to guide them in understanding how to think for themselves and advise them on what is and w
waysider
I'm having a hard time finding a way to explain what I meant when I raised the issue of ethnocentricity. I'll try, though. In The Way, we were fed the idea that "our" group was somehow bet
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Nathan_Jr
I'll ask, again, is emotional maturity and strength and inner peace built up by a sense of belonging? This is what I am questioning. This is where we disagree. And that is ok.
It's not a matter of lack of curiosity or explanation.
Agreed. Is reinforcing a sense of belonging emotional strength? Or is it a step towards codependency?
It seems to me the emotionally intelligent can see this potential pitfall and pay attention to attachments. Those with inner peace and strength and emotional maturity do not feel the need to belong to any group, the need to find strength outside themselves.
Perhaps the quoted text doesn't stand alone so well outside the context of the book. Maybe it's not an effective meme.
To build strong children
reinforce their sense
of belonging to a family
by articulating exactly what is
distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride
“Our family does X.”
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
I appreciate what you're saying. I agree with your explanation and understanding of "us vs them." It's not "enthno" centric, as I understand it.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/ethno-
That's a totally different concept from teaching and training children to grow into emotionally intelligent and mature individuals, and therefore less susceptible to cults. IMO.
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Bolshevik
For once, try using your own thoughts. I can take this seriously.
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Rocky
Perhaps it's not (an effective meme).
Are you reading trying to figure out my intended meaning? Or are you not?
For example, Bolshevik's responses reflect his brazenly obvious effort to derail the thread and make it into political hogwash. How?
Instead of asking for clarification, he makes declarations. "It is..." rather than "did you mean?"
Btw, to make a distinction btwn twi and what the author of the book seems to have been trying to communicate, “Our family does X.” is NOT equal to "Our family IS _____."
Since each (most?) of us here has parented small children, ask yourself whether you told your toddler they were bad or whether what they were doing (at a moment you wanted to change their behavior) was unacceptable.
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Rocky
Oh really? At what point will you consider playing well with others?
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Rocky
Well, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure there's a linear answer to your question.
However, if your child feels emotionally secure in your home/family (which I view as a sense of belonging in that family), do you believe that will aid or compliment development of emotional maturity and strength and inner peace?
Perhaps it's not a straight line from one to the other, as there likely are other complex factors that may help or hinder such development?
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Bolshevik
When they get their gawd-damned hands off my kids.
Does that not make sense to you?
I have a dog or a few in the fight.
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Rocky
On my sixty-eighth birthday, I decided to give my young adult children some advice. I am not a frequent advice giver but soon I was able to write down 68 bits. To my surprise, I had more to say than I thought. So for the next several years I wrote down a batch of advice on my birthday, and shared it with my family and friends. They wanted more. I kept going until I had about 450 bits of advice I wished I’d known when I was younger. I am primarily channeling the wisdom of the ages.
I am offering advice I have heard from others, or timeless knowledge repeated from the past, or a modern aphorism that matched my own experience.
I doubt any of it is truly original, although I have tried to put everything in my own words. I think of these bits as seeds because each one of them could easily be expanded into a long essay.
Indeed, I have spent most of my time writing by compressing these substantial lessons into as compact and tweetable forms as possible. You are encouraged to expand these seeds as you read to fill your own situation. If you find these proverbs align with your experience, share them with someone younger than yourself. —Kevin Kelly, Pacifica, California, 2023
Kelly, Kevin. Excellent Advice for Living (pp. 1-2). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
OTOH, if you DON'T find any such value, by all means, ignore them.
What exactly do (each or any of) you expect to accomplish by bickering with me or with the thoughts of Kevin Kelly?
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Rocky
Really? Who exactly do you think might possibly "get their hands off of your kids" by making any such declarations on GSC, or this thread?
That doesn't make sense to me.
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waysider
That can certainly enter into it, but it can also be understood, in a broader sense, to apply to a specific culture, nation or group, while having no racial implications.
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Rocky
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
According to the linked website, the current world population exceeds 8 billion people.
I cite this for perspective. What in the world makes you think ANYONE of those 8Billion+ people are or will be influenced by your arguments on this thread?
I started the thread with a view and intent to consider and hopefully get discussion about what might work, or be helpful in figuring out how to inoculate young adults against the predation of cults.
Got any insight on that issue?
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Rocky
Fine. Granting your expanded definition, it is still unrelated to the meme and the thread.
I started the thread with a view and intent to consider and hopefully get discussion about what might work, or be helpful in figuring out how to inoculate young adults against the predation of cults.
Got any insight on that issue?
I get that it's a HUGE question. But it's NOT about raising kids to think in terms of "us vs them."
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Bolshevik
The opening post comes across perverted. How dare he. Just read it.
The real world context of how "sense of belonging" is being used has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
If the thread is merely to engage in fantasy, then that would make more sense to me.
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Rocky
Clearly, you don't seem to grasp the concept of communication theory. Pointed out to me? Pointing out to me what you want me to have meant is totally meaningless.
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Nathan_Jr
I am, indeed, trying to understand your intended meaning. It's not a meme if the intended meaning has to be explained.
I've addressed your intended meaning and have asked questions to advance the discussion. I'm not fighting with you.
I just disagree with the proposition that strong children are made by reinforcing a sense of belonging and championing the distinctiveness of that sense of belonging. Though, I agree that emotional maturity has to do with inner peace and strength, we disagree that it is advanced through reinforcing a sense of belonging.
I hope to always pay attention to this desire for sense of belonging. Does a desire for a sense of belonging reinforce emotional maturity? Or can one even experience a healthy sense of belonging before reaching emotional maturity? Is inner peace dependent of a sense of belonging to something outside ourselves? Or is inner peace a contentment that is not dependent on any variable or desire?
A risk of seeking and finding inner peace and strength through reinforcing a sense of belonging is codependency and loss of individual identity. Conditions I hope we can agree is not the fruit of emotional maturity or emotional intelligence.
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Rocky
Well, I don't agree with this point. No part of what I have suggested is at all related to codependency OR loss of individual identity.
However, I recognize you're not bickering. I don't take your input as at all destructive, though it's clear we're not "getting" each other.
I appreciate your input.
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Rocky
It's possible you and I are not responding to each other from a common understanding of what "a sense of belonging" means.
As I use it, it is ONLY an emotional condition precluding the need to FIND an outside entity/group to which you would feel the need to join in order to have the "sense of belonging."
It seems, that's not necessarily the same as what you have meant. Are you able to clarify it for me?
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Rocky
Btw, a better understanding of the "real world context" of sense of belonging might be found here.
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Bolshevik
No, real world context is found in the real world.
"Sense of belonging" is used as part of a bait and switch to build a "sense of family" of children in the school system. Biological parents are now coparents with the staff.
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Rocky
The Science Behind Our Need to Belong
Insights into the history, present, and future of belonging research.
Belonging has been a hard construct for researchers to define and conceptualise because its meaning is often drawn from what predicts it or what outcomes emerge from experiencing it. It is well known that being part of something and feeling like you belong somewhere, such as in a group, feels good to most people. And while research on belonging took place before 1995, it didn't go much further than this.
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Rocky
As opposed to academic researchers?
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Bolshevik
Use your own words, Rocky.
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Bolshevik
You would have zero problem handing your children over to the State to build their identity?
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Rocky
These words are mine:
You're so far removed from me that you have no idea what I would or would not have a problem with.
Therefore, the ONLY meaning the quote above can reasonably be taken to mean is the degree of projection you use.
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