Probably is NOT "the Bible is the revealed word and will of God" as so pronounced by VPW. (And that probably wasn't *his* original thought anyway.)
Instead, I'd venture to suggest that it's simply "God loves YOU." In my work out on the streets with homeless people and with young pleasure seekers, it is truly astonishing how many don't know this. And they may have been going to church for years, decades.
God loves each and every one of us. May not love what we do, but loves us nonetheless.
What would you say is the greatest secret in the world today?
Well, the claim that "the Bible is the revealed word and will of God " is not a secret. A secret isn't merely information unknown, it's information intentionally concealed. Billions of Christians have proclaimed this idea to whomever would listen (or could be cornered) over the centuries. Hardly a secret.
Whether or not one beleeeves the Bible to be the revealed word and will of God has no bearing whatsoever on this idea being a secret.
Victor paul wierwille's regurgitation of this traditional theological premise contradicts what he "wrote" in PFAL. "No Bible translation nor version of the Bible is the word... the Bible is not the word..." (paraphrasing from page something something). Someone, please correct me if I got this wrong.
-----
If there is a great secret, Love has something to do with it, I suspect. But I wouldn't venture to claim to know the greatest secret in the world today.
If I did assert such a claim, I would advise you NOT to beleeeve me.
If there is a great secret, Love has something to do with it, I suspect. But I wouldn't venture to claim to know the greatest secret in the world today.
If I did assert such a claim, I would advise you NOT to beleeeve me
And if some demagogic moron is trying to sell access to such a secret, it's a good bet that person wants to establish a cult.
1 hour ago, Twinky said:
What would you say is the greatest secret in the world today?
My son,if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— 3 indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of theLord and find the knowledge of God. 6 For theLordgives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
...Probably is NOT "the Bible is the revealed word and will of God"....
The Bible, as the revealed word and will of God, is always DECLINING, moving away from what we were taught with an unchecked evolution of thought, in both individuals and institutions.
I've seen this evolution from time to time, both in myself over the past 5 decades, and here in some posters in the past 2 decades. I fight it off the best I can, but find myself fighting it off over and over.
Here is one example of this evolving road down here at GSC: the recent belief that the Bible does not interpret itself that has grown up here in some in fairly recent years.
This is a very equivalent to the belief that the Bible is of un-coordinated origins, and lacking authority in lives today. It's not the work of an accurate God, nor an authoritative God who is powerfully in charge. It follows that the Bible is not the revealed Word and will of God in this thinking path.
Instead, I'd venture to suggest that it's simply "God loves YOU." ... God loves each and every one of us. May not love what we do, but loves us nonetheless. ... What would you say is the greatest secret in the world today?
I think this is a close second. It's like the NEW revelation at the beginning of John's First Epistle, that God is light and light ONLY.
This is a huge secret still today.
Related to this, when I was heavily witnessing on the streets and trains of NYC in the 1970s, the BIGGEST QUESTION people had was why is there so much suffering and evil in the world that God created. This is very related to your vote, Twinky, that they just don't get it that God is love in spite of the world being the opposite.
the BIGGEST QUESTION people had was why is there so much suffering and evil in the world
It's a question that we get asked a lot and is the reason, or perhaps excuse, that people give for not believing in God. There's an answer, but it's not a quick answer and hard to explain in a few minutes to someone who's quite possible half-drunk and incapable of remembering.
Your answer isn't quite clear. Are you saying that "God loves YOU" is a close second? Or that "God is light and light ONLY" is a close second? The latter is a hard concept to be able to explain, since what is "light" and what is "dark" can be unclear. Is a prolonged drought, or a plague of locusts good or bad, light or dark? If you're a farmer, it's very dark. If you're an invading force, it might be light because it drives inhabitants off the land.
Anyway, the question is not what is light or dark. It's:
14 hours ago, Twinky said:
What would you say is the greatest secret in the world today?
No doubt T-Bone, OldSkool and cman have interesting perspectives on this one. With Bolshevik having quite a different perspective.
Here is one example of this evolving road down here at GSC: the recent belief that the Bible does not interpret itself that has grown up here in some in fairly recent years.
This is a very equivalent to the belief that the Bible is of un-coordinated origins, and lacking authority in lives today. It's not the work of an accurate God, nor an authoritative God who is powerfully in charge. It follows that the Bible is not the revealed Word and will of God in this thinking path.
If anyone choses to debate Mike on his post above, the third in this thread, I posted his post in its entirety in Doctrinal. Otherwise, I know what this will turn into. Though, maybe, it could turn into something interesting.
I'm sure we've had this debate a time or two, and he doesn't need to derail this thread, as well. And he isn't brilliant at starting his own thread. So there, Mike, I've started it for you, and you can run it from now on.
The Bible, as the revealed word and will of God, is always DECLINING, moving away from what we were taught with an unchecked evolution of thought, in both individuals and institutions.
I've seen this evolution from time to time, both in myself over the past 5 decades, and here in some posters in the past 2 decades. I fight it off the best I can, but find myself fighting it off over and over.
Here is one example of this evolving road down here at GSC: the recent belief that the Bible does not interpret itself that has grown up here in some in fairly recent years.
This is a very equivalent to the belief that the Bible is of un-coordinated origins, and lacking authority in lives today. It's not the work of an accurate God, nor an authoritative God who is powerfully in charge. It follows that the Bible is not the revealed Word and will of God in this thinking path.
The truth that a figure of speech that was not inspired by God or written in scripture “the Bible interprets itself” and exploited to the stars by VP is not a recent belief introduced here. It is merely a factual observation.
Here VP twists scripture by introducing a figure of speech personification. The Bible itself is an inert object incapable of any human activity.
Contrary to your BS negative observations the revealed Word of God around here is on the rise not declining. Since minds are no longer held captive by Wierwille idolatry and knees no longer bend before his molten images Christian minds here on GSC are free to worship God and incorporate His Word into their lives in the best way they see fit with complete freedom of will no longer bound to the self seeking goals of the small minded leaders forced upon them as “the present truth”.
We are also not bound to supporting one organization made by man as the only one worth supporting.
The Bible has no need of people continuously rubbing snake oil into its covers for people from all over the world to derive benefit from it.
And 99.9999% of those people if you asked them about “The Teacher” or “The Doctor” would say
The greatest secret in Wayworld is that the Bible doesn’t “interpret itself” you have to read it, study it, interpret it yourself, and apply it’s lessons in life.
The greatest secret in Wayworld is that the Bible doesn’t “interpret itself” you have to read it, study it, interpret it yourself, and apply its lessons in life.
We had a great chat in my church housegroup about "integrity" and how it applies in today's life, in today's situations, in real situations current for members of our housegroup. Integrity and compromise. Holding the line, without being obnoxious, close-minded, or bigoted.
Perhaps A great secret (not THE greatest secret) is that the Bible is applicable to our day and time, and to just about every culture. Not necessarily in what it says, but in the broader outline, in "the heart behind" whatever is said. We may not need to wash the feet of others - but we should be happy to carry out acts of service, especially menial ones, for those in need - and not to exalt ourselves and expect others to serve us.
Your answer isn't quite clear. Are you saying that "God loves YOU" is a close second? Or that "God is light and light ONLY" is a close second? The latter is a hard concept to be able to explain, since...
Twinky, my vote for second greatest secret is the whole topic of love that you mentioned. That topic includes (in my categorization) the big question of why a loving God seems to be running an evil world. God being all love and no hate, not yin and yang, all light and no darkness at all is a major revelation in 1 John, and the terms light and dark are defined there. Another part of this Number Two Secret is that God loves me, you, the Samaritans, the opposite political party members, and all body&soul sinners.
Twinky, my vote for second greatest secret is the whole topic of love that you mentioned. That topic includes (in my categorization) the big question of why a loving God seems to be running an evil world. God being all love and no hate, not yin and yang, all light and no darkness at all is a major revelation in 1 John, and the terms light and dark are defined there. Another part of this Number Two Secret is that God loves me, you, the Samaritans, the opposite political party members, and all body&soul sinn.
Mike, Twinky moved your topic to Doctrinal. Please respect her request to continue your discussion there.
Mike, Twinky moved your topic to Doctrinal. Please respect her request to continue your discussion there
Please take the time to read my latest post here, and you'll see that in this thread I am tracking with Twinky's vote on the Greatest Secret being love, except I am voting it the second greatest secret.
My vote, as I mentioned earlier, is that the greatest secret is exactly as PFAL taught us. Then I gave an example of why I vote this way. It appears to me that it was MY EXAMPLE (Bible interpreting self) that Twinky started that new thread for me to continue discussing my offered example.
I may take her up on that, but I'm in no rush. There's hardly any more I can say on it, other than that the short paragraph I already gave here in this thread. I'll wait and see what others say on that other thread, and that may give me more ideas.
Meanwhile, as I mentioned above, this love angle Twinky brought up is CERTAINLY a great secret to most people, and it is a rich angle, as I tried to indicate, starting with John's First Epistle. Even the idiom of permission gets involved in there, as well as the revelation that the god that controls this world is the devil, temporarily.
The greatest secret in the world today, is that man created God, not that God created man. For some unknown reason man has given his creation crazy powers over himself. Man has equiped God with the authority to cast man into the eternal fires of hell. This made up God, also has even been given the power to even judge man’s personal thoughts.
Of course, it totally depends on which parts of the world man lives, as to what the made up rules are that must be followed. If one comes from the Middle East, Alluh demands that all infidels be killed that ignore his nonexistent powers. Also woman must be covered from head toe, except for a small slit around her eyes, so she might avoid bumping into everything, as she walks, always being escorted by a male relative. And the male is looking forward to his death, so he will have 70 virgins at his disposal. What happens when the women are no longer virgins, is not known?
People who reside in the America’s, are thankful their God somehow impregnated a virgin (are virgins a recurring theme in the minds of men who have madeup their God)? Within a few years of this son being born, God demanded his son suffer unimaginable tortures, and be murdered by hanging on a cross until dead. If this God performed these unexplainable acts today, he would at the least, be in prison the rest of his forever life, or his forever life, somehow ended.
These are only two of the versions of these Gods, as there are many, many versions of this fraudulent God in the world today, so one can pick which one they want to control their lives.
“But Muslim fundamentalists regard the Koran—every word of it—as God’s own language, and they have violently attacked freethinking scholars as heretics. So Muslim intellectuals have been intimidated, and Islam has often been transmitted by narrow-minded extremists,” Kristof said.
Sounds familiar.
—-
”Virgin” was mistranslated in the Bible, too. It’s no secret that the Abrahamic religions are preoccupied with sex and virginity.
Even pseudo-Christian cults, like the one founded by victor paul wierwille, have profoundly twisted issues with sex.
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Nathan_Jr
Well, the claim that "the Bible is the revealed word and will of God " is not a secret. A secret isn't merely information unknown, it's information intentionally concealed. Billions of Christians have proclaimed this idea to whomever would listen (or could be cornered) over the centuries. Hardly a secret.
Whether or not one beleeeves the Bible to be the revealed word and will of God has no bearing whatsoever on this idea being a secret.
Victor paul wierwille's regurgitation of this traditional theological premise contradicts what he "wrote" in PFAL. "No Bible translation nor version of the Bible is the word... the Bible is not the word..." (paraphrasing from page something something). Someone, please correct me if I got this wrong.
-----
If there is a great secret, Love has something to do with it, I suspect. But I wouldn't venture to claim to know the greatest secret in the world today.
If I did assert such a claim, I would advise you NOT to beleeeve me.
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Rocky
And if some demagogic moron is trying to sell access to such a secret, it's a good bet that person wants to establish a cult.
Here's my guess, but I'm not trying to SELL access to it,
My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
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Mike
The Bible, as the revealed word and will of God, is always DECLINING, moving away from what we were taught with an unchecked evolution of thought, in both individuals and institutions.
I've seen this evolution from time to time, both in myself over the past 5 decades, and here in some posters in the past 2 decades. I fight it off the best I can, but find myself fighting it off over and over.
Here is one example of this evolving road down here at GSC: the recent belief that the Bible does not interpret itself that has grown up here in some in fairly recent years.
This is a very equivalent to the belief that the Bible is of un-coordinated origins, and lacking authority in lives today. It's not the work of an accurate God, nor an authoritative God who is powerfully in charge. It follows that the Bible is not the revealed Word and will of God in this thinking path.
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Mike
I think this is a close second. It's like the NEW revelation at the beginning of John's First Epistle, that God is light and light ONLY.
This is a huge secret still today.
Related to this, when I was heavily witnessing on the streets and trains of NYC in the 1970s, the BIGGEST QUESTION people had was why is there so much suffering and evil in the world that God created. This is very related to your vote, Twinky, that they just don't get it that God is love in spite of the world being the opposite.
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Twinky
It's a question that we get asked a lot and is the reason, or perhaps excuse, that people give for not believing in God. There's an answer, but it's not a quick answer and hard to explain in a few minutes to someone who's quite possible half-drunk and incapable of remembering.
Your answer isn't quite clear. Are you saying that "God loves YOU" is a close second? Or that "God is light and light ONLY" is a close second? The latter is a hard concept to be able to explain, since what is "light" and what is "dark" can be unclear. Is a prolonged drought, or a plague of locusts good or bad, light or dark? If you're a farmer, it's very dark. If you're an invading force, it might be light because it drives inhabitants off the land.
Anyway, the question is not what is light or dark. It's:
No doubt T-Bone, OldSkool and cman have interesting perspectives on this one. With Bolshevik having quite a different perspective.
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waysider
Traveling down a slippery slope there, me thinks.
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Twinky
If anyone choses to debate Mike on his post above, the third in this thread, I posted his post in its entirety in Doctrinal. Otherwise, I know what this will turn into. Though, maybe, it could turn into something interesting.
I'm sure we've had this debate a time or two, and he doesn't need to derail this thread, as well. And he isn't brilliant at starting his own thread. So there, Mike, I've started it for you, and you can run it from now on.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programme.
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chockfull
The truth that a figure of speech that was not inspired by God or written in scripture “the Bible interprets itself” and exploited to the stars by VP is not a recent belief introduced here. It is merely a factual observation.
Here VP twists scripture by introducing a figure of speech personification. The Bible itself is an inert object incapable of any human activity.
Contrary to your BS negative observations the revealed Word of God around here is on the rise not declining. Since minds are no longer held captive by Wierwille idolatry and knees no longer bend before his molten images Christian minds here on GSC are free to worship God and incorporate His Word into their lives in the best way they see fit with complete freedom of will no longer bound to the self seeking goals of the small minded leaders forced upon them as “the present truth”.
We are also not bound to supporting one organization made by man as the only one worth supporting.
The Bible has no need of people continuously rubbing snake oil into its covers for people from all over the world to derive benefit from it.
And 99.9999% of those people if you asked them about “The Teacher” or “The Doctor” would say
”Who?”
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chockfull
The greatest secret in Wayworld is that the Bible doesn’t “interpret itself” you have to read it, study it, interpret it yourself, and apply it’s lessons in life.
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Twinky
We had a great chat in my church housegroup about "integrity" and how it applies in today's life, in today's situations, in real situations current for members of our housegroup. Integrity and compromise. Holding the line, without being obnoxious, close-minded, or bigoted.
Perhaps A great secret (not THE greatest secret) is that the Bible is applicable to our day and time, and to just about every culture. Not necessarily in what it says, but in the broader outline, in "the heart behind" whatever is said. We may not need to wash the feet of others - but we should be happy to carry out acts of service, especially menial ones, for those in need - and not to exalt ourselves and expect others to serve us.
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Mike
Twinky, my vote for second greatest secret is the whole topic of love that you mentioned. That topic includes (in my categorization) the big question of why a loving God seems to be running an evil world. God being all love and no hate, not yin and yang, all light and no darkness at all is a major revelation in 1 John, and the terms light and dark are defined there. Another part of this Number Two Secret is that God loves me, you, the Samaritans, the opposite political party members, and all body&soul sinners.
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Nathan_Jr
This is not a secret.
Reminds me of a topic we were discussing earlier this week.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Nathan_Jr
Mike, Twinky moved your topic to Doctrinal. Please respect her request to continue your discussion there.
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Mike
Please take the time to read my latest post here, and you'll see that in this thread I am tracking with Twinky's vote on the Greatest Secret being love, except I am voting it the second greatest secret.
My vote, as I mentioned earlier, is that the greatest secret is exactly as PFAL taught us. Then I gave an example of why I vote this way. It appears to me that it was MY EXAMPLE (Bible interpreting self) that Twinky started that new thread for me to continue discussing my offered example.
I may take her up on that, but I'm in no rush. There's hardly any more I can say on it, other than that the short paragraph I already gave here in this thread. I'll wait and see what others say on that other thread, and that may give me more ideas.
Meanwhile, as I mentioned above, this love angle Twinky brought up is CERTAINLY a great secret to most people, and it is a rich angle, as I tried to indicate, starting with John's First Epistle. Even the idiom of permission gets involved in there, as well as the revelation that the god that controls this world is the devil, temporarily.
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Nathan_Jr
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Mike
Read with understanding... that is.
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Stayed Too Long
The greatest secret in the world today, is that man created God, not that God created man. For some unknown reason man has given his creation crazy powers over himself. Man has equiped God with the authority to cast man into the eternal fires of hell. This made up God, also has even been given the power to even judge man’s personal thoughts.
Of course, it totally depends on which parts of the world man lives, as to what the made up rules are that must be followed. If one comes from the Middle East, Alluh demands that all infidels be killed that ignore his nonexistent powers. Also woman must be covered from head toe, except for a small slit around her eyes, so she might avoid bumping into everything, as she walks, always being escorted by a male relative. And the male is looking forward to his death, so he will have 70 virgins at his disposal. What happens when the women are no longer virgins, is not known?
People who reside in the America’s, are thankful their God somehow impregnated a virgin (are virgins a recurring theme in the minds of men who have madeup their God)? Within a few years of this son being born, God demanded his son suffer unimaginable tortures, and be murdered by hanging on a cross until dead. If this God performed these unexplainable acts today, he would at the least, be in prison the rest of his forever life, or his forever life, somehow ended.
These are only two of the versions of these Gods, as there are many, many versions of this fraudulent God in the world today, so one can pick which one they want to control their lives.
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Twinky
STL, I knew there'd be some interesting controversial views!
Maybe they remain perpetual virgins? But some say there are no virgins at all. Instead, there are white grapes, or raisins. How very disappointing for those foolish martyrs who expect wives, and get raisins. https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/islamic-scholar-punctures-72-virgins-theory-says-martyrs-will-only-get-raisins-in-heaven-340579.html
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Rocky
Intriguing. And there's something to that view.
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Nathan_Jr
From the article:
“But Muslim fundamentalists regard the Koran—every word of it—as God’s own language, and they have violently attacked freethinking scholars as heretics. So Muslim intellectuals have been intimidated, and Islam has often been transmitted by narrow-minded extremists,” Kristof said.
Sounds familiar.
—-
”Virgin” was mistranslated in the Bible, too. It’s no secret that the Abrahamic religions are preoccupied with sex and virginity.
Even pseudo-Christian cults, like the one founded by victor paul wierwille, have profoundly twisted issues with sex.
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Nathan_Jr
I don't know if this is a secret, but this little clip is everything.
These children have not yet been indoctrinated and conditioned to beleeeve. Oh, how clearly they see!
Either one can see what is going on here or one cannot. The Truth, the secret, here cannot be taught. It cannot be learned. It is beyond beleeef.
Mark 10:14
Matt 18:1-6
Matt 19:14
Matt 11:25
Luke 10:21
Luke 18:17
John 3:3
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OldSkool
The greatest secret was just a sales pitch used by VPW...kinda like Step Right up from PT Barnum...
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Rocky
Exactly.
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Rocky
One great secret, IMO, is how "Let go and Let God" is not exclusively a Christian practice.
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