Pharisees were basically a political sect, but rooted in their interpretation of Mosaic law, with lots of other philosophy and received wisdom overlaying. By and large, they appear to have been well familiar with the scriptures (OT) and wanted to promote adherence to them. They wanted to preserve the way they thought things should be. It seems likely that they did, in fact, adhere (wrongly) to their religious beliefs.
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
He did share some things with Pharisees, though. Both he and they were Johnny-come-lately, of no importance (rather, in fact, hindrances) in God's plan for humankind, and are irrelevant to life today.
Pharisees were basically a political sect, but rooted in their interpretation of Mosaic law, with lots of other philosophy and received wisdom overlaying. By and large, they appear to have been well familiar with the scriptures (OT) and wanted to promote adherence to them. They wanted to preserve the way they thought things should be. It seems likely that they did, in fact, adhere (wrongly) to their religious beliefs.
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
He did share some things with Pharisees, though. Both he and they were Johnny-come-lately, of no importance (rather, in fact, hindrances) in God's plan for humankind, and are irrelevant to life today.
Morning. Pharisees promoted adherence to their oral traditions that they said interpreted the Torah, which is what Jesus Christ confronted as the traditions of men, etc. So they were religious and political. Eventually, they developed the Babylonian Talmud based on their oral traditions.
Wierwille and the way international promote their own traditions over scripture, all that proven ministry research given to let the Bible intrepret itself...snark..so there are parallels although limited parallels.
Pharisees were basically a political sect, but rooted in their interpretation of Mosaic law, with lots of other philosophy and received wisdom overlaying. By and large, they appear to have been well familiar with the scriptures (OT) and wanted to promote adherence to them. They wanted to preserve the way they thought things should be. It seems likely that they did, in fact, adhere (wrongly) to their religious beliefs.
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
He did share some things with Pharisees, though. Both he and they were Johnny-come-lately, of no importance (rather, in fact, hindrances) in God's plan for humankind, and are irrelevant to life today.
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
A succinct and eloquent examination. Well done, Sky, as always. Thank you.
This is not bitterness, as the Pharisaic sycophants accuse. It is clarity of thought. It is clear awareness. It is seeing through the veil.
On casting out devil spurts: victor invented a hedge to mitigate any future risk of exposure of his incompetence in this "field." It was a "key" to something - don't cast out spurts, unless. Unless what? Unless you get revelation to do so. (Riiiiight...)
Well, that literally gives everyone claiming power an out - a cop out. My own fellowship commander frequently took advantage of this cop out made available by victor. And he knew what to do with it once he got it. He did NOTHING. He didn't have to, because he was always waiting on revelation. (Oh. Right. Of course.)
One question (for anyone): break the mints in three pieces? WTAF?
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
Maybe, we should define our terms. When I speak of religious ideology.... I am not speaking of church ideology. Religious beliefs are man-made; they are the commandments of men. Religions all over the world have variations of man-made worship. Some religions worship monkeys; others worship cows.
True Christianity has NO religion in it. In basic truth, it is the walk of a child of God with his/her heavenly Father.
Maybe, we should define our terms. When I speak of religious ideology.... I am not speaking of church ideology. Religious beliefs are man-made; they are the commandments of men. Religions all over the world have variations of man-made worship. Some religions worship monkeys; others worship cows.
True Christianity has NO religion in it. In basic truth, it is the walk of a child of God with his/her heavenly Father.
I agree TWI was (is, I suppose still) a Pharisee-LIKE organization.
To me, this topic is ripe for an understanding enhancing discussion. Indeed, Skyrider's OP presents salient food for thought. Twinky counters by saying she doesn't think she can agree on the apparent main point, and then proceeds to enhance discussion with other salient points. I appreciate both but hope readers can look beyond terminology which might inadvertently shift focus to a win-lose posture. It doesn't have to be adversarial at this point.
Defining terms can be helpful to clarifying discussion.
A succinct and eloquent examination. Well done, Sky, as always. Thank you.
This is not bitterness, as the Pharisaic sycophants accuse. It is clarity of thought. It is clear awareness. It is seeing through the veil.
On casting out devil spurts: victor invented a hedge to mitigate any future risk of exposure of his incompetence in this "field." It was a "key" to something - don't cast out spurts, unless. Unless what? Unless you get revelation to do so. (Riiiiight...)
Well, that literally gives everyone claiming power an out - a cop out. My own fellowship commander frequently took advantage of this cop out made available by victor. And he knew what to do with it once he got it. He did NOTHING. He didn't have to, because he was always waiting on revelation. (Oh. Right. Of course.)
One question (for anyone): break the mints in three pieces? WTAF?
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
I agree TWI was (is, I suppose still) a Pharisee-LIKE organization.
To me, this topic is ripe for an understanding enhancing discussion. Indeed, Skyrider's OP presents salient food for thought. Twinky counters by saying she doesn't think she can agree on the apparent main point, and then proceeds to enhance discussion with other salient points. I appreciate both but hope readers can look beyond terminology which might inadvertently shift focus to a win-lose posture. It doesn't have to be adversarial at this point.
Defining terms can be helpful to clarifying discussion.
Yes, a Pharisee-LIKE organization.
Wierwille had a narcissistic personality disorder that gave him the confidence and ability to subjugate others. As a serial plagiarist, he garnered more material thru the years and tweaked much of it, ever-so-slightly, to pawn it off as "his own." From this launching pad in 1953, he began to build a following separate from his denominational church upbringing. From the church basement, the repetition of his "class" [B.G. Leonard's class] sparked a growing movement of loyal followers who would stick with him until his death.
Whether one refers to this as indoctrination or mass formation psychosis.... one generation of "pfal class-loyalists" held to these foundational principles as if they were the Torah itself. Total thought reform over the individual was achieved via tactics, loaded language and group formation. This one generation held absolute devotion to wierwille's seductive ministry and many encouraged their children to enlist in the classes, camps and programs. With outreach programs and youth involvement, there were many years of explosive growth and exuberant zeal.
Wierwille was a modern-day Pharisee of ritualistic beliefs that rarely deviated from a foundational background. Class formats, outreach programs, and rock of ages events never deviated in his lifetime. Wierwille was a product of religious devotion.... a Pharisee-like devotee of controlled machinations. The corps training program gave him access to live out his obsessions and lusts with impunity. Far removed from Christian ethics and morals, wierwille was able to indulge to his heart's desire in drunkenness, lasciviousness and sexual favors. It is in this isolated context that the real wierwille displayed his Pharisaic influence in a grand scale. Without this adulation pedestal, wierwille was just a dirty old grandpa.
He died of cancer in an isolated wilderness from his followers. The Pharisee died in his pride, you see.
The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they knew he was doing many miracles and if they did nothing, they feared that all men would come to believe in him and the Romans would then come and take away both their place and nation (John 11:47-48). Likewise, I think vp saw the love and praise young people had for Jesus and wanted that love and praise all for himself. So he cunningly demoted, demeaned and devalued Jesus in his teachings and especially his programs so that Christ no longer lived in our lives (i.e., he was basically dead to us) and vp was then able to maintain his lordship in his kingdom that was called twi. That was my experience for the years I was involved in twi and remained my experience for decades later until very recently.
Wierwille had a narcissistic personality disorder that gave him the confidence and ability to subjugate others. As a serial plagiarist, he garnered more material thru the years and tweaked much of it, ever-so-slightly, to pawn it off as "his own." From this launching pad in 1953, he began to build a following separate from his denominational church upbringing. From the church basement, the repetition of his "class" [B.G. Leonard's class] sparked a growing movement of loyal followers who would stick with him until his death.
Whether one refers to this as indoctrination or mass formation psychosis.... one generation of "pfal class-loyalists" held to these foundational principles as if they were the Torah itself. Total thought reform over the individual was achieved via tactics, loaded language and group formation. This one generation held absolute devotion to wierwille's seductive ministry and many encouraged their children to enlist in the classes, camps and programs. With outreach programs and youth involvement, there were many years of explosive growth and exuberant zeal.
Wierwille was a modern-day Pharisee of ritualistic beliefs that rarely deviated from a foundational background. Class formats, outreach programs, and rock of ages events never deviated in his lifetime. Wierwille was a product of religious devotion.... a Pharisee-like devotee of controlled machinations. The corps training program gave him access to live out his obsessions and lusts with impunity. Far removed from Christian ethics and morals, wierwille was able to indulge to his heart's desire in drunkenness, lasciviousness and sexual favors. It is in this isolated context that the real wierwille displayed his Pharisaic influence in a grand scale. Without this adulation pedestal, wierwille was just a dirty old grandpa.
He died of cancer in an isolated wilderness from his followers. The Pharisee died in his pride, you see.
One of the sources that drew me to the parallels between the Pharisee operation in Biblical times and TWI in modern times was the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse”.
I will dig up some quotes but in general it seems to be a topical study on the Pharisees and pointing out how that method of operating produces spiritual abuse.
The example the author drew on was this type of dynamic in a mainstream Christian church he had experience with. Interesting to note that his proving ground for this was not in an isolationist cult but right there hidden in main view in a church.
Chapter after chapter left me right in the middle of how TWI operates. One point that comes to mind is the Pharisees always construct inner circles so that the top leader never has to “become unclean” by dealing with the commoner. That is for lower level Pharisees. BOD isolate themselves similarly.
Another point was investigating the Corban issue where the Pharisees would not even fulfill the responsibility of caring for elderly parents but claim all the help was for “moving the Word” or spiritual goals instead and refused to care for their elders.
They strain at a gnat but swallow a camel. Look at all of the legalism surrounding the worship “manifestations” ending up in zero engagement with other Christians.
Look at all the little loopholes for debt that they live in while putting the spurs to the common believers keeping them poor and out of mortgages. They themselves get free labor for building houses, and keep mortgages in relatives names using them to keep themselves “clean” in the matter. While others are dropped from leadership and programs for not having tricky loopholes.
There is a whole world of parallels between the Pharisees and TWI leadership. Most of the patterns come out in that book IMO.
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
I SWEAR I have not made up ANY of this.
I can confirm the truth of this story. The zealots following the top Pharisees always have the zealots passion.
Kind of like a suicide bomber they take ludicrousness and amplify it to extremes. And woe to the person who challenges them!
The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they knew he was doing many miracles and if they did nothing, they feared that all men would come to believe in him and the Romans would then come and take away both their place and nation (John 11:47-48). Likewise, I think vp saw the love and praise young people had for Jesus and wanted that love and praise all for himself. So he cunningly demoted, demeaned and devalued Jesus in his teachings and especially his programs so that Christ no longer lived in our lives (i.e., he was basically dead to us) and vp was then able to maintain his lordship in his kingdom that was called twi. That was my experience for the years I was involved in twi and remained my experience for decades later until very recently.
Yes the same fear of loss of power and position keeps TWI leaders trapped in an endless abuse cycle. They can’t give it up and manufacture twisted doctrines to maintain their power. God calls this out as motivated by greed and lust - for power influence and control.
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
I SWEAR I have not made up ANY of this.
I think the more important lesson here is that - like everything else - only wierwille could rightly-divide the mints…
…makes sense too - wierwille’s rightly-divided “Word” was a coverup for some really stinky, twisted, unbiblical and depraved theology!
Pharisees were basically a political sect, but rooted in their interpretation of Mosaic law, with lots of other philosophy and received wisdom overlaying. By and large, they appear to have been well familiar with the scriptures (OT) and wanted to promote adherence to them. They wanted to preserve the way they thought things should be. It seems likely that they did, in fact, adhere (wrongly) to their religious beliefs.
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
He did share some things with Pharisees, though. Both he and they were Johnny-come-lately, of no importance (rather, in fact, hindrances) in God's plan for humankind, and are irrelevant to life today.
On 3/31/2023 at 9:21 AM, OldSkool said:
Morning. Pharisees promoted adherence to their oral traditions that they said interpreted the Torah, which is what Jesus Christ confronted as the traditions of men, etc. So they were religious and political. Eventually, they developed the Babylonian Talmud based on their oral traditions.
Wierwille and the way international promote their own traditions over scripture, all that proven ministry research given to let the Bible intrepret itself...snark..so there are parallels although limited parallels.
On 3/31/2023 at 11:24 AM, skyrider said:
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
23 hours ago, WordWolf said:
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
I SWEAR I have not made up ANY of this.
If I could add my 2-cents – in the spirit of compromise – everyone is right!
The Pharisees prided themselves on their precision of interpreting Jewish Law and adhered to a source of law called the “tradition of the fathers” in addition to the Torah of Moses.
From what I’ve read, they were mostly middle-class businessmen, leaders of the synagogues and by extension considered leaders in the community. They were a minority in the Sanhedrin BUTseemed to control the decision-making of the Sanhedrin because they had popular support among the people and generally politics can make for some strange bedfellows. During New Testament times the Jews in Jerusalem had power over their own people of Israel -BUT being under Roman rule meant that their authority was very limited. That did not prevent major internal wrangling for power and influence among those who were in positions of perceived authority. The Pharisees were at odds with the Sadducees. They did NOT agree on a lot and did NOT get along, yet in the end they joined forces to eliminate Jesus.
In my opinion religion and politics may work hand in hand at times. Religion can strongly influence how a person votes, and political views can influence religious thought. As Skyrider said:
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
~ ~ ~ ~
HAPe4me posted on theHayes Gahaganthread in 12/21/2008, 12:07 AM:
In the late 70s, Hayes Gahagan, a PFAL grad, was highly touted by VPW as a political hero to God's people (us wayfers). TWI sent Political WOWs (PowWOWS) to surreptitiously campaign for him, if I recall correctly) from: Hayes Gahagan topic
And more recently there was a thread Doug Mastriano thread started 11/1/2022 6:09 AM , who joined The Way in the 1980s. He's featured in this New Yorker article, How Election Subversion Went Mainstream in Pennsylvania.
I think harmful and controlling cults like The Way International would fit right in with all the conspiratorial baloney that’s going on. Religious cults can be breeding grounds for secular cults.
As Wikipedia says a cult of personality is the result of an effort to create an idealized and heroic image of a leader.
Let’s look again at Matthew 23 that Skyrider mentioned in the starter post – and be sure to stay tuned for my secret hats-off signal to OldSkool’sThe Absent Christ? thread after the Matthew passages:
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.4They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;7they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.11The greatest among you will be your servant.12For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[14]b
15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?20Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.21And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.22And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38Look, your house is left to you desolate.39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ c ”
Verse 37 really got to me – “you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing” – I see a weird Twilight Zone parallel with the Pharisees being one of the instrumental forces in killing Jesus and a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian Pharisaic cult-leader - - victor paul wierwille – who taught me in the PFAL class “The Wordtakes the place of the absent Christ…that’s Grade A top-shelf cult-leader bull-$hit right there, folks!
The Pharisees prided themselves on their precision of interpreting Jewish Law and adhered to a source of law called the “tradition of the fathers” in addition to the Torah of Moses.
From what I’ve read, they were mostly middle-class businessmen, leaders of the synagogues and by extension considered leaders in the community. They were a minority in the Sanhedrin BUTseemed to control the decision-making of the Sanhedrin because they had popular support among the people and generally politics can make for some strange bedfellows. During New Testament times the Jews in Jerusalem had power over their own people of Israel -BUT being under Roman rule meant that their authority was very limited. That did not prevent major internal wrangling for power and influence among those who were in positions of perceived authority. The Pharisees were at odds with the Sadducees. They did NOT agree on a lot and did NOT get along, yet in the end they joined forces to eliminate Jesus.
In my opinion religion and politics may work hand in hand at times. Religion can strongly influence how a person votes, and political views can influence religious thought. As Skyrider said:
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Thanks T-Bone..... lots of links and food for thought.
I don't think many have given much thought to how these two intertwine. It's not just office-holders and campaign slogans, but it bleeds down into the agendas and fabric of society. It flows down into the practical/impractical realities of everyday life.
We don't discuss politics on this site and I fully understand why. But politics and religion are bedfellows... sometimes strange bedfellows.... but bedfellows nonetheless. At times, it's challenging to talk about religious ideology without the full examination of politics behind it. When wierwille set up The Way International... he installed himself as "president." Rather than use church terminology like Senior Minister, Pastor, Preacher or Elder.... wierwille uses a title known in the political world, "president." Why did he do that? Or, was this used as a business term.... ie "president of a board." (??)
Was this an error? Or, did wierwille picture himself as a political/religious leader to rule over the masses?
"The Pharisees were primarily not apolitical partybut a society of scholars and pietists. They enjoyed a large popular following, and in theNew Testamentthey appear as spokesmen for the majority of the population. About 100BCEa long struggle ensued as the Pharisees tried to democratize the Jewishreligionand remove it from the control of theTemplepriests. The Phariseesassertedthat God could and should be worshipped even away from the Temple and outsideJerusalem. To the Pharisees, worship consisted not in bloody sacrifices—the practice of the Temple priests—but inprayerand in the study of God’s law. Hence, the Pharisees fostered thesynagogueas an institution of religious worship, outside and separate from the Temple. The synagogue may thus be considered a Pharasaic institution, since the Pharisees developed it, raised it to high eminence, and gave it a central place in Jewish religious life."
Although eminent sources—the Hellenistic-Jewish historian Josephus, the New Testament, and the Talmud—have mentioned the Sanhedrin, their accounts are fragmentary, apparently contradictory, and often obscure. Hence, its exact nature,composition, and function remain a subject of scholarly investigation and controversy. In the writings of Josephus and the Gospels, for example, the Sanhedrin is presented as a political and judicial council headed by the high priest (in his role as civil ruler); in the Talmud it is described as primarily a religious legislative body headed by sages, though with certain political and judicial functions. Some scholars have accepted the first view as authentic, others the second, while a third school holds that there were two Sanhedrins, one a purely political council, the other a religious courtand legislature. Moreover, some scholars attest that the Sanhedrin was a single body, combining political, religious, and judicial functions in a community where these aspects were inseparable.
...I don't think many have given much thought to how these two intertwine. It's not just office-holders and campaign slogans, but it bleeds down into the agendas and fabric of society. It flows down into the practical/impractical realities of everyday life.
We don't discuss politics on this site and I fully understand why. But politics and religion are bedfellows... sometimes strange bedfellows.... but bedfellows nonetheless. At times, it's challenging to talk about religious ideology without the full examination of politics behind it. When wierwille set up The Way International... he installed himself as "president." Rather than use church terminology like Senior Minister, Pastor, Preacher or Elder.... wierwille uses a title known in the political world, "president." Why did he do that? Or, was this used as a business term.... ie "president of a board." (??)
Was this an error? Or, did wierwille picture himself as a political/religious leader to rule over the masses?
There’s perhaps no clearer example of wierwille’s overreach as the presidentof The Way International than in his teaching of Romans 13and hisdefinition of the “higher powers”. If memory serves this was on a SNT tape entitled Higher Powers. wierwille read from Romans 13 The Living Bible - it starts off with verse 1:
Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power.
For those who are not familiar with wierwille’s teaching of Romans 13 – the main thrust of it is – after wierwille lambasts The Living Bible version – using words like “government”, he redefinesthe King James Version “higher powers” to be the gift ministries!
It never occurred to me until after I left TWI and worked on removing the PFAL filter from my brain and demoting wierwille to a non-man-of-god status, that I should question or re-evaluate anything he taught.
Numerous questions came to mind in trying to reconcile wierwille’s misinterpretingRomans 13the higher powers as gift ministries. One big question loomed large. Why was Paul so cryptic in Romans 13, if he meant to refer to the gift ministries? And then why all the allusions to law enforcement, taxation, and a justice system? Those terms are obviously referring to functions and activities of a governing body – certainly not applicable to a church.
~ ~ ~ ~
It was while I was figuring out my next move (figuratively and literally) I came across an estate sale of a pastor. There is where I committed one of my first acts of open defiance – I purchased several commentaries – one of them I quote from – Lenski - see below – in a “reissue” _ of a post I made on another thread about government…speaking now as an ‘adult adult’(remember that goofy term wierwille used ?) freed from a cult’s suppression of my cognitive skills, I would just like to say – not one has all the answers. Make no mistake, harmful and controlling Pharisaic cults like The Way International are intent on weakening and overthrowing one’s cognitive skills. One must learn - - or maybe re-learn how to think for oneself. Cognitive skills are like a muscle – use it or lose it.
~ ~ ~ ~
I’ll leave it up to any Grease Spotters – if interested – to read the entire chapter of The Living Bible – at the end of my post I’ve included it and several other versions of Romans 13 from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages. And once you’re on their website you can punch in what book and chapter in the center box you want, and to the right is a pulldown box for version of your choice then you click on the magnifying glass ikon - convenient study tools!
In my book wierwille’s teaching on the Higher Powersof Romans 13 deserves The Spinal Tap Award - drawing on both the medical procedurewhich may also be done to inject medications into the cerebrospinal fluid– intrathecally - particularly for spinal anesthesia[9] or chemotherapyANDThis Is Spinal Tap (1984)a mockumentary of Spinal Tap, one of England's loudest bands, chronicled by film director Marty DiBergi on what proves to be a fateful tour…You smersh ( yikes what a reference!) them together and it metaphorically means the recipient of The Spinal Tap Award was able to inject an anesthetizing fluid into one’s cognitive skills with a delivery system that goes up to 11 .
~ ~ ~ ~
Anyway…as promised below is a reissue of an old post of mine:
I believe God created human beings as free moral agents ANDas social creatures . As Wikipedia’s link suggests – being social creatures we are greatly interactive with other members of our own species, with an individual’s success highly dependent on the overall cohesion and propagation of the group. the first institution established by God to help provide for social needs was marriage as seen in Adam and Eve - the two becoming one flesh...then further on the propagation of the group as Adam and Eve start a family.
Perhaps one of the more serious repercussions of the Fall is not only tainting perfection with sin but also throwing a wrench into the proper operation of interpersonal skills… Now let’s get a whole bunch of imperfect people to live together, conduct business together and in general try to get along without tearing each other apart. That gets into the human conditionand even though it’s a broad topic – the human condition is often a recurring priority addressed by many religions, philosophers, and psychologists.
Me being the two-bit sociologist that I am - - I got to wondering if God didn’t perhaps build certain fail-safe “programs” into humans that would come into operation if something went wrong. Thinking about civilizations and societies one could interpret their tendencies to establish law and order as simply a response to satisfy some innate desire for such things…a workaround solution…an instinctive drive to restore proper socialization.
One more thing I wanted to mention before commenting on Romans 13 - - was a definition of institutionfor the purpose of this post I’ll go with two common definitions of institution - An organization founded for a religious, educational, professional, or social purpose …and… An established official organization having an important role in a society, such as the Church or parliament.
What I hope to show is that Romans 13 refers to the institution of government in generalas a necessary means to the continued existence of a civilized society – and that it does NOT refer to… or specifies …or endorses any one type of government:
“No particular form of authority is specified: imperial, monarchial, oligarchical, republican, democratic. Whether this authority is exercised in a noble or in an oppressive manner, whether it was attained in a legitimate or in an illegitimate way, neither limits nor qualifies the Christian’s position. One implication is plain: anarchy is not according to the will of God. While it has had its theoretical advocates it could not be established so as to continue, for it is the abolition of all governmental authority.
When Paul wrote he scarcely had in mind his personal experiences as a Christian under Roman authority, the climax of which was yet to come when he suffered martyrdom; but he certainly had in mind the Jewish authority which forced Pilate to send Jesus to the cross and his own violence as a rabid tool of the Sanhedrin which led to the martyrdom of so many of the first Christians. The fact that authorities and authority may act criminally changes nothing as to God’s will regarding their establishment among men.”
“He sees the state as a gift of God’s common grace to guarantee civil order and to restrain uncontrolled evil (the ruler “is God’s servant to do good “ [v.4]; cf. 2 Thess. 2:6-7, where the final eschatological eruption of rebellion by the “man of lawlessness” is being held back by “that which” and “he who” restrains, very likely respectively, human government and the Holy Spirit…
…Elsewhere in Scripture the believer is enjoined to disobey authorities where they demand denial of the Lord (e.g., Daniel and his three friends [Daniel 3, 6]; Peter and John [Acts 4:19-20]; and Jesus himself in his disregard for Sabbath laws and refusal to replay to official questioning [Luke 23:8-9] ). Furthermore, Paul himself describes the power of the state as provisional in I Corinthians 6:1-6, and Revelation 13 characterizes Rome as the demonic beast from the abyss. Paul is aware of these negative and complementary aspects of human government but focuses here on the issue of respect for instituted authority as a necessary precondition for the Christian mission…”
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
Romans 13, like so many other passages in the Bible, touches on some things that are far bigger than just the immediate context of directives being given. Sometimes we may rush to a conclusion without giving any thought to the background or issues that a particular biblical directive addresses.
I believe we have the need for order and socialization that is written into our makeup – hardwired, if you will – by our Creator - and though we are fallen creatures - those needs are still present and crave to be satisfied. The institution of government is one of the many methods that God has provided for overcoming the problems and limitations of the human condition.
There were four schools of thought in Jesus’ day. From the Bible we see the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Zealots. From religious history we also see the Essenes. The Pharisees were the strictest sect of Jews as Paul states in Acts 26:5. Their very name meant “set apart.” However, all too often they clung to their own laws and traditions instead of God’s Law. Jesus rebuked them many a time as they were hypocrites and did not love truth nor followed it.
Why is it important to know about the Pharisees? Well, in Matt. 5:20 Jesus said:
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
The following were the main characteristics of the Pharisees:
(1) They threw aside God’s commandments and made the commandments of men and traditions into doctrines. (Mark 7:7-9).
(2) They were more concerned with outer purity rather than the purity of the heart. Jesus said that they cleaned the inside of the cup but inside their hearts were full of wickedness! (See Luke 11:39; Matt. 23:25, 27, 28).
(3) They tithed on herbs which is good but more important matters like justice and the love for God were overlooked. (See Luke 11:32; Matt. 23:23,24). They strained out a gnat but they swallowed a camel. ((Matt 23:24)
(4) They loved the highest seats and public greetings in the market because they were selfish and wanted to be seen by people, to the point of enlarging the borders of their clothes. (Luke 11:43; Matt. 23:5-10; Mark 12:38)
(5) They made people fall. Jesus said that they were like hidden graves that made unsuspecting people fall in. (Luke 11:44).
(6) They did not want people to be healed on the Sabbath that God made for man but yet they would take out their ox if it fell in a pit on Sabbath. (Matt. 13:11-17).
(7) They burdened people with unnecessary traditions and did not raise a finger to help. (Luke 11:46; Matt. 23:4)
(8) They built the sepulchers of the prophets that their own ancestors killed. (Luke 11:47, 48; Matt. 23:29-31). In fact they killed Jesus. (See Matt. 12:14; 21:33-46; Matt. 27:20-22).
(9) They took away the key of knowledge. They blocked people from getting into heaven and they themselves did not get in. (Matt. 23:13, Luke 11:52; John 12:42,43)
(10) They devoured widows’ houses! (Matt. 23:14)
(11) They said long prayers pretending that they were righteous. (Matt. 23:14)
(12) They went on land and sea to convert people and they made those converts twice a child of hell as themselves! (Matt. 23:15)
(13) They forbade people from swearing by the gold of the temple but they swore by the temple itself! (Matt. 23:16,17)
(14) They talked and do not did not do anything. (Matt 23:3). They even praised God with their lips and their heart was far from Him. (Matt. 7:6).
(15) They were fools, blind guides and hypocrites. (Matt 23:16-25; Luke 11:44,46; 12:1-3). John the Baptist called them vipers (Matt. 3:7).
(16) They loved to tempt, accuse and oppose Jesus. (Matt. 16:1; 19:3; Mark 8:11; 10:2; 12:13; Luke 6:7). They continuously tried to entangle Him in His talk (Matt. 22:15). Paul, who was a Pharisee, told of his own nature before his conversion:
"I (Paul) verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth."
So when he came on the scene after Jesus' ascension he persecuted the Christian Church.
(17) They asked for a sign to believe when many were already given. If given yet another sign they would not believe. (Luke 22:66, 67). Note that the incident mentioned in the given text was after three and a half years of Jesus working miracles, healing all types of diseases and even raising the dead!
(18) There is hope even for “Pharisees”. Acts 6:7 tells us what happed after Jesus went back to Heaven and His disciples preached after being filled with the Holy Spirit. It says:
“And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.”
Are you a Pharisee in heart? Come to Jesus and tell Him you want to be like Him. Humble yourself like a child. If you are willing He will change your life and make you a new person. He will cast all your past sins behind His back as He has promised and He will save you so you will neither be one of the two extremes – a hardened sinned or a self-righteous Pharisee who is also a sinner. Let Jesus do this for you now. Help Him to help you by asking Him now sincerely.
There were four schools of thought in Jesus’ day. From the Bible we see the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Zealots. From religious history we also see the Essenes. The Pharisees were the strictest sect of Jews as Paul states in Acts 26:5. Their very name meant “set apart.” However, all too often they clung to their own laws and traditions instead of God’s Law. Jesus rebuked them many a time as they were hypocrites and did not love truth nor followed it.
Why is it important to know about the Pharisees? Well, in Matt. 5:20 Jesus said:
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
The following were the main characteristics of the Pharisees:
(1) They threw aside God’s commandments and made the commandments of men and traditions into doctrines. (Mark 7:7-9).
(2) They were more concerned with outer purity rather than the purity of the heart. Jesus said that they cleaned the inside of the cup but inside their hearts were full of wickedness! (See Luke 11:39; Matt. 23:25, 27, 28).
(3) They tithed on herbs which is good but more important matters like justice and the love for God were overlooked. (See Luke 11:32; Matt. 23:23,24). They strained out a gnat but they swallowed a camel. ((Matt 23:24)
(4) They loved the highest seats and public greetings in the market because they were selfish and wanted to be seen by people, to the point of enlarging the borders of their clothes. (Luke 11:43; Matt. 23:5-10; Mark 12:38)
(5) They made people fall. Jesus said that they were like hidden graves that made unsuspecting people fall in. (Luke 11:44).
(6) They did not want people to be healed on the Sabbath that God made for man but yet they would take out their ox if it fell in a pit on Sabbath. (Matt. 13:11-17).
(7) They burdened people with unnecessary traditions and did not raise a finger to help. (Luke 11:46; Matt. 23:4)
(8) They built the sepulchers of the prophets that their own ancestors killed. (Luke 11:47, 48; Matt. 23:29-31). In fact they killed Jesus. (See Matt. 12:14; 21:33-46; Matt. 27:20-22).
(9) They took away the key of knowledge. They blocked people from getting into heaven and they themselves did not get in. (Matt. 23:13, Luke 11:52; John 12:42,43)
(10) They devoured widows’ houses! (Matt. 23:14)
(11) They said long prayers pretending that they were righteous. (Matt. 23:14)
(12) They went on land and sea to convert people and they made those converts twice a child of hell as themselves! (Matt. 23:15)
(13) They forbade people from swearing by the gold of the temple but they swore by the temple itself! (Matt. 23:16,17)
(14) They talked and do not did not do anything. (Matt 23:3). They even praised God with their lips and their heart was far from Him. (Matt. 7:6).
(15) They were fools, blind guides and hypocrites. (Matt 23:16-25; Luke 11:44,46; 12:1-3). John the Baptist called them vipers (Matt. 3:7).
(16) They loved to tempt, accuse and oppose Jesus. (Matt. 16:1; 19:3; Mark 8:11; 10:2; 12:13; Luke 6:7). They continuously tried to entangle Him in His talk (Matt. 22:15). Paul, who was a Pharisee, told of his own nature before his conversion:
"I (Paul) verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth."
So when he came on the scene after Jesus' ascension he persecuted the Christian Church.
(17) They asked for a sign to believe when many were already given. If given yet another sign they would not believe. (Luke 22:66, 67). Note that the incident mentioned in the given text was after three and a half years of Jesus working miracles, healing all types of diseases and even raising the dead!
(18) There is hope even for “Pharisees”. Acts 6:7 tells us what happed after Jesus went back to Heaven and His disciples preached after being filled with the Holy Spirit. It says:
“And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.”
Are you a Pharisee in heart? Come to Jesus and tell Him you want to be like Him. Humble yourself like a child. If you are willing He will change your life and make you a new person. He will cast all your past sins behind His back as He has promised and He will save you so you will neither be one of the two extremes – a hardened sinned or a self-righteous Pharisee who is also a sinner. Let Jesus do this for you now. Help Him to help you by asking Him now sincerely.
I'm uncomfortable seeing a post like this (which seems obviously copied from somewhere) without the source citation provided. Thankfully, finding it for this one was easy.
I'm uncomfortable seeing a post like this (which seems obviously copied from somewhere) without the source citation provided. Thankfully, finding it for this one was easy.
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skyrider
Indeed
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Twinky
Don't think I can agree with you on this, Sky.
Pharisees were basically a political sect, but rooted in their interpretation of Mosaic law, with lots of other philosophy and received wisdom overlaying. By and large, they appear to have been well familiar with the scriptures (OT) and wanted to promote adherence to them. They wanted to preserve the way they thought things should be. It seems likely that they did, in fact, adhere (wrongly) to their religious beliefs.
In contrast, VPW didn't appear to have any religious beliefs. He knew as much Bible as he needed to, to fool people, and codged together a set of "beliefs" from whatever he could find that seemed to suit his own agenda. He didn't want to preserve anything; he wanted to break everything - and everyone.
He did share some things with Pharisees, though. Both he and they were Johnny-come-lately, of no importance (rather, in fact, hindrances) in God's plan for humankind, and are irrelevant to life today.
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OldSkool
Morning. Pharisees promoted adherence to their oral traditions that they said interpreted the Torah, which is what Jesus Christ confronted as the traditions of men, etc. So they were religious and political. Eventually, they developed the Babylonian Talmud based on their oral traditions.
Wierwille and the way international promote their own traditions over scripture, all that proven ministry research given to let the Bible intrepret itself...snark..so there are parallels although limited parallels.
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skyrider
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
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Nathan_Jr
A succinct and eloquent examination. Well done, Sky, as always. Thank you.
This is not bitterness, as the Pharisaic sycophants accuse. It is clarity of thought. It is clear awareness. It is seeing through the veil.
On casting out devil spurts: victor invented a hedge to mitigate any future risk of exposure of his incompetence in this "field." It was a "key" to something - don't cast out spurts, unless. Unless what? Unless you get revelation to do so. (Riiiiight...)
Well, that literally gives everyone claiming power an out - a cop out. My own fellowship commander frequently took advantage of this cop out made available by victor. And he knew what to do with it once he got it. He did NOTHING. He didn't have to, because he was always waiting on revelation. (Oh. Right. Of course.)
One question (for anyone): break the mints in three pieces? WTAF?
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skyrider
Maybe, we should define our terms. When I speak of religious ideology.... I am not speaking of church ideology. Religious beliefs are man-made; they are the commandments of men. Religions all over the world have variations of man-made worship. Some religions worship monkeys; others worship cows.
True Christianity has NO religion in it. In basic truth, it is the walk of a child of God with his/her heavenly Father.
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Rocky
I agree TWI was (is, I suppose still) a Pharisee-LIKE organization.
To me, this topic is ripe for an understanding enhancing discussion. Indeed, Skyrider's OP presents salient food for thought. Twinky counters by saying she doesn't think she can agree on the apparent main point, and then proceeds to enhance discussion with other salient points. I appreciate both but hope readers can look beyond terminology which might inadvertently shift focus to a win-lose posture. It doesn't have to be adversarial at this point.
Defining terms can be helpful to clarifying discussion.
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WordWolf
Oh, you're going to LOVE the explanation for the broken mints......
vpw had standing instructions to have mints at the podium for when he showed up. (He did NOT explain it was to cover the booze on his breath, which would have helped understanding.....) At one point, vpw mentioned in passing that he broke the mints. So, naturally, an instruction went around IMMEDIATELY- always break the mints FOR vpw before he gets there....eventually going to "break them in 3 pieces."
So, vpw started showing up to the podium, intending to put an intact mint in his mouth, and crack it open to use the interior to hide the booze on his breath with the stronger interior. One day, he got there, and the mints were all cut up. So, he went with it. That kept happening. After a few weeks, and after that became a long-standing tradition to break the mints in 3 pieces no matter what- vpw was speaking at the podium, and made a passing comment about all the mints he could find being these little smashed bits or whatever. Immediately, people began pointing out he said he broke the mints, so they were saving him trouble. "I meant, I break them IN MY MOUTH!"
vpw never meant them to cut up his mints, he meant to hide all the booze on his breath. But he mentioned it out loud, some time after he insisted that "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order" , and after he'd equated himself with every kind of leader, generals included. So, the dutiful people tried to help him.
I SWEAR I have not made up ANY of this.
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skyrider
Yes, a Pharisee-LIKE organization.
Wierwille had a narcissistic personality disorder that gave him the confidence and ability to subjugate others. As a serial plagiarist, he garnered more material thru the years and tweaked much of it, ever-so-slightly, to pawn it off as "his own." From this launching pad in 1953, he began to build a following separate from his denominational church upbringing. From the church basement, the repetition of his "class" [B.G. Leonard's class] sparked a growing movement of loyal followers who would stick with him until his death.
Whether one refers to this as indoctrination or mass formation psychosis.... one generation of "pfal class-loyalists" held to these foundational principles as if they were the Torah itself. Total thought reform over the individual was achieved via tactics, loaded language and group formation. This one generation held absolute devotion to wierwille's seductive ministry and many encouraged their children to enlist in the classes, camps and programs. With outreach programs and youth involvement, there were many years of explosive growth and exuberant zeal.
Wierwille was a modern-day Pharisee of ritualistic beliefs that rarely deviated from a foundational background. Class formats, outreach programs, and rock of ages events never deviated in his lifetime. Wierwille was a product of religious devotion.... a Pharisee-like devotee of controlled machinations. The corps training program gave him access to live out his obsessions and lusts with impunity. Far removed from Christian ethics and morals, wierwille was able to indulge to his heart's desire in drunkenness, lasciviousness and sexual favors. It is in this isolated context that the real wierwille displayed his Pharisaic influence in a grand scale. Without this adulation pedestal, wierwille was just a dirty old grandpa.
He died of cancer in an isolated wilderness from his followers. The Pharisee died in his pride, you see.
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Charity
The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they knew he was doing many miracles and if they did nothing, they feared that all men would come to believe in him and the Romans would then come and take away both their place and nation (John 11:47-48). Likewise, I think vp saw the love and praise young people had for Jesus and wanted that love and praise all for himself. So he cunningly demoted, demeaned and devalued Jesus in his teachings and especially his programs so that Christ no longer lived in our lives (i.e., he was basically dead to us) and vp was then able to maintain his lordship in his kingdom that was called twi. That was my experience for the years I was involved in twi and remained my experience for decades later until very recently.
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chockfull
One of the sources that drew me to the parallels between the Pharisee operation in Biblical times and TWI in modern times was the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse”.
I will dig up some quotes but in general it seems to be a topical study on the Pharisees and pointing out how that method of operating produces spiritual abuse.
The example the author drew on was this type of dynamic in a mainstream Christian church he had experience with. Interesting to note that his proving ground for this was not in an isolationist cult but right there hidden in main view in a church.
Chapter after chapter left me right in the middle of how TWI operates. One point that comes to mind is the Pharisees always construct inner circles so that the top leader never has to “become unclean” by dealing with the commoner. That is for lower level Pharisees. BOD isolate themselves similarly.
Another point was investigating the Corban issue where the Pharisees would not even fulfill the responsibility of caring for elderly parents but claim all the help was for “moving the Word” or spiritual goals instead and refused to care for their elders.
They strain at a gnat but swallow a camel. Look at all of the legalism surrounding the worship “manifestations” ending up in zero engagement with other Christians.
Look at all the little loopholes for debt that they live in while putting the spurs to the common believers keeping them poor and out of mortgages. They themselves get free labor for building houses, and keep mortgages in relatives names using them to keep themselves “clean” in the matter. While others are dropped from leadership and programs for not having tricky loopholes.
There is a whole world of parallels between the Pharisees and TWI leadership. Most of the patterns come out in that book IMO.
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chockfull
I can confirm the truth of this story. The zealots following the top Pharisees always have the zealots passion.
Kind of like a suicide bomber they take ludicrousness and amplify it to extremes. And woe to the person who challenges them!
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chockfull
Yes the same fear of loss of power and position keeps TWI leaders trapped in an endless abuse cycle. They can’t give it up and manufacture twisted doctrines to maintain their power. God calls this out as motivated by greed and lust - for power influence and control.
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Nathan_Jr
Wow.
Just
Wow
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T-Bone
I think the more important lesson here is that - like everything else - only wierwille could rightly-divide the mints…
…makes sense too - wierwille’s rightly-divided “Word” was a coverup for some really stinky, twisted, unbiblical and depraved theology!
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Rocky
I saw this just now and I thought of everybody on this thread and this platform/website.
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T-Bone
If I could add my 2-cents – in the spirit of compromise – everyone is right!
First off, a shoutout to WordWolf’s brilliant observation of the twofold nature of mints .
Now on to less complicated stuff…
The Pharisees prided themselves on their precision of interpreting Jewish Law and adhered to a source of law called the “tradition of the fathers” in addition to the Torah of Moses.
In volume 3 of The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: 4 Vol. Set gen editor Geoffrey W Bromiley under PHARISEES pages 822ff it notes of particular interest are the political activities of the Pharisees, especially in Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 13 (tufts.edu) in sections 288 – 298…They were not considered primarily a political force (see Pharisees - Wikipedia , Pharisee | Definition, History, & Legacy | Britannica , Who Were the Pharisees? The Beginner's Guide - OverviewBible , Who were the Pharisees? | GotQuestions.org , and Pharisees - Bible Odyssey ) .
From what I’ve read, they were mostly middle-class businessmen, leaders of the synagogues and by extension considered leaders in the community. They were a minority in the Sanhedrin BUT seemed to control the decision-making of the Sanhedrin because they had popular support among the people and generally politics can make for some strange bedfellows. During New Testament times the Jews in Jerusalem had power over their own people of Israel - BUT being under Roman rule meant that their authority was very limited. That did not prevent major internal wrangling for power and influence among those who were in positions of perceived authority. The Pharisees were at odds with the Sadducees. They did NOT agree on a lot and did NOT get along, yet in the end they joined forces to eliminate Jesus.
Some notes from: How Were Politics Part of Jesus' Crucifixion? - Christian Questions Bible Podcast
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In my opinion religion and politics may work hand in hand at times. Religion can strongly influence how a person votes, and political views can influence religious thought. As Skyrider said:
Political affiliations embrace religious ideology.
Religious ideology embraces political affiliations.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
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HAPe4me posted on the Hayes Gahagan thread in 12/21/2008, 12:07 AM:
In the late 70s, Hayes Gahagan, a PFAL grad, was highly touted by VPW as a political hero to God's people (us wayfers). TWI sent Political WOWs (PowWOWS) to surreptitiously campaign for him, if I recall correctly) from: Hayes Gahagan topic
And more recently there was a thread Doug Mastriano thread started 11/1/2022 6:09 AM , who joined The Way in the 1980s. He's featured in this New Yorker article, How Election Subversion Went Mainstream in Pennsylvania.
I think harmful and controlling cults like The Way International would fit right in with all the conspiratorial baloney that’s going on. Religious cults can be breeding grounds for secular cults.
As Wikipedia says a cult of personality is the result of an effort to create an idealized and heroic image of a leader.
Remember Steven Hassan the author of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves and Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults …He has written another fascinating book about a cult of personality – but since politics are a no-no on Grease Spot Café I’ll leave it up to you to click on this hyperlink, that has been encrypted to protect the faint of heart
> The Cult of Orange-Hole: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the Orange-Hole Uses Mind Control ...you know I'm bad, I'm bad, bad, bad Shamone 
...oop de shoop...bring the band on down behind me, boys...cuz I gots a few other hyperlinks on religion and politics folks might wanna check out later:
5 Ways Religion Can Influence Political Beliefs | Nicholas Didonato (patheos.com)
Religion and Politics | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu)
10 facts about religion and government in the U.S. | Pew Research Center
The Role of Religion in Politics - AP-NORC (apnorc.org)
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Let’s look again at Matthew 23 that Skyrider mentioned in the starter post – and be sure to stay tuned for my secret hats-off signal to OldSkool’s The Absent Christ? thread after the Matthew passages:
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] b
15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ c ”
Matthew 23 NIV
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Verse 37 really got to me – “you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing” – I see a weird Twilight Zone parallel with the Pharisees being one of the instrumental forces in killing Jesus and a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian Pharisaic cult-leader - - victor paul wierwille – who taught me in the PFAL class “The Word takes the place of the absent Christ…that’s Grade A top-shelf cult-leader bull-$hit right there, folks!
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skyrider
Thanks T-Bone..... lots of links and food for thought.
I don't think many have given much thought to how these two intertwine. It's not just office-holders and campaign slogans, but it bleeds down into the agendas and fabric of society. It flows down into the practical/impractical realities of everyday life.
We don't discuss politics on this site and I fully understand why. But politics and religion are bedfellows... sometimes strange bedfellows.... but bedfellows nonetheless. At times, it's challenging to talk about religious ideology without the full examination of politics behind it. When wierwille set up The Way International... he installed himself as "president." Rather than use church terminology like Senior Minister, Pastor, Preacher or Elder.... wierwille uses a title known in the political world, "president." Why did he do that? Or, was this used as a business term.... ie "president of a board." (??)
Was this an error? Or, did wierwille picture himself as a political/religious leader to rule over the masses?
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skyrider
From this link....
"The Pharisees were primarily not a political party but a society of scholars and pietists. They enjoyed a large popular following, and in the New Testament they appear as spokesmen for the majority of the population. About 100 BCE a long struggle ensued as the Pharisees tried to democratize the Jewish religion and remove it from the control of the Temple priests. The Pharisees asserted that God could and should be worshipped even away from the Temple and outside Jerusalem. To the Pharisees, worship consisted not in bloody sacrifices—the practice of the Temple priests—but in prayer and in the study of God’s law. Hence, the Pharisees fostered the synagogue as an institution of religious worship, outside and separate from the Temple. The synagogue may thus be considered a Pharasaic institution, since the Pharisees developed it, raised it to high eminence, and gave it a central place in Jewish religious life."
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skyrider
When one looks into the Sanhedrin.... you find the same crossovers of political/religious affiliations.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/sanhedrin
Although eminent sources—the Hellenistic-Jewish historian Josephus, the New Testament, and the Talmud—have mentioned the Sanhedrin, their accounts are fragmentary, apparently contradictory, and often obscure. Hence, its exact nature, composition, and function remain a subject of scholarly investigation and controversy. In the writings of Josephus and the Gospels, for example, the Sanhedrin is presented as a political and judicial council headed by the high priest (in his role as civil ruler); in the Talmud it is described as primarily a religious legislative body headed by sages, though with certain political and judicial functions. Some scholars have accepted the first view as authentic, others the second, while a third school holds that there were two Sanhedrins, one a purely political council, the other a religious court and legislature. Moreover, some scholars attest that the Sanhedrin was a single body, combining political, religious, and judicial functions in a community where these aspects were inseparable.
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T-Bone
There’s perhaps no clearer example of wierwille’s overreach as the president of The Way International than in his teaching of Romans 13 and his definition of the “higher powers”. If memory serves this was on a SNT tape entitled Higher Powers. wierwille read from Romans 13 The Living Bible - it starts off with verse 1:
Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power.
For those who are not familiar with wierwille’s teaching of Romans 13 – the main thrust of it is – after wierwille lambasts The Living Bible version – using words like “government”, he redefines the King James Version “higher powers” to be the gift ministries!
It never occurred to me until after I left TWI and worked on removing the PFAL filter from my brain and demoting wierwille to a non-man-of-god status, that I should question or re-evaluate anything he taught.
Numerous questions came to mind in trying to reconcile wierwille’s misinterpreting Romans 13 the higher powers as gift ministries. One big question loomed large. Why was Paul so cryptic in Romans 13, if he meant to refer to the gift ministries? And then why all the allusions to law enforcement, taxation, and a justice system? Those terms are obviously referring to functions and activities of a governing body – certainly not applicable to a church.
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It was while I was figuring out my next move (figuratively and literally) I came across an estate sale of a pastor. There is where I committed one of my first acts of open defiance
– I purchased several commentaries – one of them I quote from – Lenski - see below – in a “reissue” _ of a post I made on another thread about government…speaking now as an ‘adult adult’ ( 
remember that goofy term wierwille used ?) freed from a cult’s suppression of my cognitive skills, I would just like to say – not one has all the answers. Make no mistake, harmful and controlling Pharisaic cults like The Way International are intent on weakening and overthrowing one’s cognitive skills. One must learn - - or maybe re-learn how to think for oneself. Cognitive skills are like a muscle – use it or lose it.
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I’ll leave it up to any Grease Spotters – if interested – to read the entire chapter of The Living Bible – at the end of my post I’ve included it and several other versions of Romans 13 from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages. And once you’re on their website you can punch in what book and chapter in the center box you want, and to the right is a pulldown box for version of your choice then you click on the magnifying glass ikon - convenient study tools!
In my book wierwille’s teaching on the Higher Powers of Romans 13 deserves The Spinal Tap Award - drawing on both the medical procedure which may also be done to inject medications into the cerebrospinal fluid – intrathecally
- particularly for spinal anesthesia[9] or chemotherapy AND This Is Spinal Tap (1984) a mockumentary of Spinal Tap, one of England's loudest bands, chronicled by film director Marty DiBergi on what proves to be a fateful tour…You smersh ( 
yikes what a reference!) them together and it metaphorically means the recipient of The Spinal Tap Award was able to inject an anesthetizing fluid into one’s cognitive skills with a delivery system that goes up to 11 .
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Anyway…as promised below is a reissue of an old post of mine:
I believe God created human beings as free moral agents AND as social creatures . As Wikipedia’s link suggests – being social creatures we are greatly interactive with other members of our own species, with an individual’s success highly dependent on the overall cohesion and propagation of the group. the first institution established by God to help provide for social needs was marriage as seen in Adam and Eve - the two becoming one flesh...then further on the propagation of the group as Adam and Eve start a family.
Perhaps one of the more serious repercussions of the Fall is not only tainting perfection with sin but also throwing a wrench into the proper operation of interpersonal skills… Now let’s get a whole bunch of imperfect people to live together, conduct business together and in general try to get along without tearing each other apart. That gets into the human condition and even though it’s a broad topic – the human condition is often a recurring priority addressed by many religions, philosophers, and psychologists.
Me being the two-bit sociologist that I am
- - I got to wondering if God didn’t perhaps build certain fail-safe “programs” into humans that would come into operation if something went wrong. Thinking about civilizations and societies one could interpret their tendencies to establish law and order as simply a response to satisfy some innate desire for such things…a workaround solution…an instinctive drive to restore proper socialization.
One more thing I wanted to mention before commenting on Romans 13 - - was a definition of institution for the purpose of this post I’ll go with two common definitions of institution - An organization founded for a religious, educational, professional, or social purpose …and… An established official organization having an important role in a society, such as the Church or parliament.
What I hope to show is that Romans 13 refers to the institution of government in general as a necessary means to the continued existence of a civilized society – and that it does NOT refer to… or specifies …or endorses any one type of government:
From R.C.H. Lenski's Commentary on the New Testament: Romans, co. 1936 , on page 786, Lenski says of Romans 13:
“No particular form of authority is specified: imperial, monarchial, oligarchical, republican, democratic. Whether this authority is exercised in a noble or in an oppressive manner, whether it was attained in a legitimate or in an illegitimate way, neither limits nor qualifies the Christian’s position. One implication is plain: anarchy is not according to the will of God. While it has had its theoretical advocates it could not be established so as to continue, for it is the abolition of all governmental authority.
When Paul wrote he scarcely had in mind his personal experiences as a Christian under Roman authority, the climax of which was yet to come when he suffered martyrdom; but he certainly had in mind the Jewish authority which forced Pilate to send Jesus to the cross and his own violence as a rabid tool of the Sanhedrin which led to the martyrdom of so many of the first Christians. The fact that authorities and authority may act criminally changes nothing as to God’s will regarding their establishment among men.”
End of excerpt
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And from Evangelical Dictionary of Theology gen editor Walter A. Elwell , page 477, under Government. The Biblical Witness:
“From a biblical point of view government is one of the means God has established to rule his creation through human stewardship.”
End of excerpt
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We see from other passages that no earthly government takes priority over the authority of God. Commenting on Romans 13:1-7 in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible gen editor Walter A Elwell , pages 951 and 952 it says of Paul the author of Romans:
“He sees the state as a gift of God’s common grace to guarantee civil order and to restrain uncontrolled evil (the ruler “is God’s servant to do good “ [v.4]; cf. 2 Thess. 2:6-7, where the final eschatological eruption of rebellion by the “man of lawlessness” is being held back by “that which” and “he who” restrains, very likely respectively, human government and the Holy Spirit…
…Elsewhere in Scripture the believer is enjoined to disobey authorities where they demand denial of the Lord (e.g., Daniel and his three friends [Daniel 3, 6]; Peter and John [Acts 4:19-20]; and Jesus himself in his disregard for Sabbath laws and refusal to replay to official questioning [Luke 23:8-9] ). Furthermore, Paul himself describes the power of the state as provisional in I Corinthians 6:1-6, and Revelation 13 characterizes Rome as the demonic beast from the abyss. Paul is aware of these negative and complementary aspects of human government but focuses here on the issue of respect for instituted authority as a necessary precondition for the Christian mission…”
End of excerpt
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Romans 13, like so many other passages in the Bible, touches on some things that are far bigger than just the immediate context of directives being given. Sometimes we may rush to a conclusion without giving any thought to the background or issues that a particular biblical directive addresses.
I believe we have the need for order and socialization that is written into our makeup – hardwired, if you will – by our Creator - and though we are fallen creatures - those needs are still present and crave to be satisfied. The institution of government is one of the many methods that God has provided for overcoming the problems and limitations of the human condition.
From: my post on All Governments from God? thread Oct. 18th 2017 11:30 PM
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DVD bonus featurette 1…here’s a couple more recent posts that reiterate Romans 13 stuff:
my post March 4th 2023 11:22AM on Craig has his own offshoot thread
my post March 7th 2023 8:35 AM Kristin Du Mez author of Jesus & John Wayne thread
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DVD bonus featurette 2…here’s some other versions of Romans 13:
Romans 13 TLB
Romans 13 KJV
Romans 13 NIV
Romans 13 NLT
Romans 13 NASB
Romans 13 ESV
Romans 13 AMP
Romans 13 HCSB
Romans 13 PHILLIPS
Romans 13 MSG
Romans 13 MEV
Romans 13 NET
Romans 13 RSV
Romans 13 WYC
Romans 13 MOUNCE
The End
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chockfull
18 Characteristics Of A Pharisee
Why is it important to know about the Pharisees? Well, in Matt. 5:20 Jesus said:
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
The following were the main characteristics of the Pharisees:
(1) They threw aside God’s commandments and made the commandments of men and traditions into doctrines. (Mark 7:7-9).
(2) They were more concerned with outer purity rather than the purity of the heart. Jesus said that they cleaned the inside of the cup but inside their hearts were full of wickedness! (See Luke 11:39; Matt. 23:25, 27, 28).
(3) They tithed on herbs which is good but more important matters like justice and the love for God were overlooked. (See Luke 11:32; Matt. 23:23,24). They strained out a gnat but they swallowed a camel. ((Matt 23:24)
(4) They loved the highest seats and public greetings in the market because they were selfish and wanted to be seen by people, to the point of enlarging the borders of their clothes. (Luke 11:43; Matt. 23:5-10; Mark 12:38)
(5) They made people fall. Jesus said that they were like hidden graves that made unsuspecting people fall in. (Luke 11:44).
(6) They did not want people to be healed on the Sabbath that God made for man but yet they would take out their ox if it fell in a pit on Sabbath. (Matt. 13:11-17).
(7) They burdened people with unnecessary traditions and did not raise a finger to help. (Luke 11:46; Matt. 23:4)
(8) They built the sepulchers of the prophets that their own ancestors killed. (Luke 11:47, 48; Matt. 23:29-31). In fact they killed Jesus. (See Matt. 12:14; 21:33-46; Matt. 27:20-22).
(9) They took away the key of knowledge. They blocked people from getting into heaven and they themselves did not get in. (Matt. 23:13, Luke 11:52; John 12:42,43)
(10) They devoured widows’ houses! (Matt. 23:14)
(11) They said long prayers pretending that they were righteous. (Matt. 23:14)
(12) They went on land and sea to convert people and they made those converts twice a child of hell as themselves! (Matt. 23:15)
(13) They forbade people from swearing by the gold of the temple but they swore by the temple itself! (Matt. 23:16,17)
(14) They talked and do not did not do anything. (Matt 23:3). They even praised God with their lips and their heart was far from Him. (Matt. 7:6).
(15) They were fools, blind guides and hypocrites. (Matt 23:16-25; Luke 11:44,46; 12:1-3). John the Baptist called them vipers (Matt. 3:7).
(16) They loved to tempt, accuse and oppose Jesus. (Matt. 16:1; 19:3; Mark 8:11; 10:2; 12:13; Luke 6:7). They continuously tried to entangle Him in His talk (Matt. 22:15). Paul, who was a Pharisee, told of his own nature before his conversion:
"I (Paul) verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth."
So when he came on the scene after Jesus' ascension he persecuted the Christian Church.
(17) They asked for a sign to believe when many were already given. If given yet another sign they would not believe. (Luke 22:66, 67). Note that the incident mentioned in the given text was after three and a half years of Jesus working miracles, healing all types of diseases and even raising the dead!
(18) There is hope even for “Pharisees”. Acts 6:7 tells us what happed after Jesus went back to Heaven and His disciples preached after being filled with the Holy Spirit. It says:
“And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.”
Are you a Pharisee in heart? Come to Jesus and tell Him you want to be like Him. Humble yourself like a child. If you are willing He will change your life and make you a new person. He will cast all your past sins behind His back as He has promised and He will save you so you will neither be one of the two extremes – a hardened sinned or a self-righteous Pharisee who is also a sinner. Let Jesus do this for you now. Help Him to help you by asking Him now sincerely.
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Rocky
I'm uncomfortable seeing a post like this (which seems obviously copied from somewhere) without the source citation provided. Thankfully, finding it for this one was easy.
http://whatdoesthebiblesay.weebly.com/18-characteristics-of-a-pharisee.html
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chockfull
Did I leave off the url?
Edited by chockfullHad coffee and calmed down
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