AOS - New Topics Same as Old Topic...

[OldSkool]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:42 PM, Beguiled said:

Under my own personal definition of an athlete, with a dash/heap of anecdotal experience, I think athletes of the spirit is a very apt description of at least Christians, but most definitely wafers. 

Dictionary.com states that an athlete is a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill.

In today's world I operationalize it as someone who is not only participating in a physical sport, but their master status and life is oriented around the notion of being an athlete. Generally speaking, but not in all cases, said person would have to be actively participating/training in a sport as well (and perhaps even at the highest level of competition that they can). AAU, the high school team, college, military, and so on. 

I have been an athlete for my entire life up until about 5 years go through team sports, my job in the military, racing motorcycles and cars, and surfing competitions. As an athlete and a teacher at a very large Division 1 University who has literally had entire basketball, football, baseball, softball, and soccer teams in my classroom at the same time - athletes are not something that anyone should look up to. Athletes in this world are children. They are dumb, they are ignorant, and they do not care about things that do not affect their sport, team, or own physical abilities. They have no respect for those not in their circle. Those I taught in my classes were all Division 1 athletes and some have gone onto being professional athletes as children. I would never look up to any of them and I never have told anyone about my being an athlete because of how I see them and because I can unequivocally say that I was just as bad as anyone I am referring to. They are too narrow-minded and only care about their physical abilities in so much that it elevates them above others. They believe they are better than others because they can do X or Y better than the next person, or you.

Also, these teams would only be in my 300 person classrooms, not the 75 person ones, and they would sit in the back corners with their backs to me and their headphones on. They would have a chaperone follow them to my class to make sure they made it and then would come back after to make sure they were still there. EVEN THE UNIVERSITY KNEW THESE KIDS DIDN'T HAVE THERE SH!T TOGETHER. But all of the money that Universities get is basically through sport. All Division 1 schools shut down the campus for game days, fyi. Learning does not matter when millions of dollars are about to pour in.

I am generalizing. I understand not all athletes are like this. But I would say that over 50% definitely are. Based on GPA's of said athletes I am being very generous in my opinion. I remember when my favorite Kansas University point guard back in the day graduated with a 4.0 and went on to the NBA, it was such a big deal lol. 

Anywhooo, I see no difference between athletes in college/professional level and those in TWI. Their way or the highway. Listen to what I have to say I'm better than you. I don't talk to people like you because you are not at the same level as me. I see athletes as young and dumb and willing to do whatever they are told to be on the team, much like TWI. Once on said team they will take almost any type of mental or physical abuse to stay or the team, or to be ranked higher within their own team, let alone their sport. I see coaches, trainers, and any other type of leadership as the same as in TWI/Christianity. Utilizing their position for their own status and egos at the cost of those beneath them. Yet those involved will defend the leadership because it is "making them stronger, better, more disciplined," et cetera. Leaders will control the athlete (read ignorant child still figuring out him/herself through the only lens they know, competition). Athletes have huge mental problems today, huge. The higher up you go in competition the more you will see how these athletes are not well-rounded and have little to no social and cognitive thinking skills. As long as they "strive to be #1 in everything they do" no one cares, let alone themselves, how skewed these kids' mental capacities really are.

(And yes, I am including myself here. For the record, I decided I no longer wanted to be one of these people and literally threw my surfboard down at a competition as a symbol to myself and decided to go back to college. I thought I was better than everyone around me and I had no basis to think that. I told myself I had to prove it. So I stopped being an athlete and instead took a new path and outlook on how to approach life.)

Everything I have said gets compounded 10 fold when said athletes participate in non-team sports, any type of racing, and especially any Olympic sport. Sociology, the discipline I have studied for a fortnite or two *wink*, lays out how they are basically slaves in the modern era. I would agree. But we look the other way because we have created a society in which only having one physical skill is supposedly better than having a hundred cognitive/social skills, and we put the highest dollar amount to this physical skill. If you are a man anyway...

So when I see the term "athletes of the spirit" I think wafers definitely are an Christians are but not as badly. I smile inside when I see the term and I don't think it should stopped being used. Their viewpoint of the spiritual is just as skewed as athletes' viewpoints and reasoning are in the physical. They both believe they are better than you because...of this one thing they have that you don't. 

Just an alternative perspective from someone who has had some of the same spiritual experiences as you.

After reading along I have to say I agree 100%. As someone who excelled in the way international (and I mean excelled - I was one of the most commited zealots you woulda been able to find) participated in every program, took every class, studied daily 3 to 4 hours at a time most evenings and weekends, etc, I can completely relate to the ego and attitude you describe. And I was so very childish at the time, all the while thinking I was some superioir spiritual superman on account of all of my zealous efforts. Christianity is affected, or perhaps infected, to a lesser degree but still symptomatic to say the least.

Personally, it was when I actually humbled myself before Christ and cast aside all the religiosity and man made accolades, positions, status, all that garbage that I was able to actually change from my previous state to a much more rounded individual. A true relationship with the Father and His son is antitethitical to the undesireable egotistical attributes of said spiritual athletes because God resists the proud. Its fair to say I ran into resistance along the way...lol.

[chockfull]

So regarding this AOS topic that I think you have to view it in the larger perspective of how it developed to get a good understanding.

VPW in teachings covered what he called “great statements” in Acts.  This is a supposed figure of speech that actually is supposed to be a spiritual summary and conclusion of the sections preceding them.

Ex: So mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed.

In a normal historical account this is just the description of quantity and notes a grassroots movement spreading quickly in the local area.

But LCM being a second string football player on the bench at a larger university latched onto these statements and promoted them to the extreme.  Now it’s taking about how extremely zealous everyone was so much more than today yada yada yada.

This ended up in the publication of a research book - the Rise and Expansion of the Christian Church, and a corresponding production number called Athletes of the Spirit.  That production grew way out of control way quickly and really disrupted the normal ministry flow of things drawing criticism (even masked criticism from VP)

It was soooo ridiculous.  Soooo overboard.

Then the wife and Rosalie orchestrated a takeover - her rise to power as the head of the “Prez cabinet” - basically Machiavellian stuff from Pharisees and he was expelled.

The book was last I looked still in bookstore.  But treated with the “cone of silence”. Maybe they got rid of it altogether by now.

What about the truth of scripture?  God uses several analogies in scripture for us to relate to.  There is an athlete, a farmer, and a warrior as 3 most emphasized.  Characteristics of each can help live a Christian life in balance.  

Read them.  Enjoy them.  But don’t go off the deep end with them.  The AOS show is the lesson there - yes that is off the deep end.

I remember when parents would put that on a loop and call all cartoons devilish and have their kiddos watch AOS on a loop.  I can’t even describe how dumb that is.

 

[Nathan_Jr]

A nice treatment, Chockfull. Thanks.

 

57 minutes ago, chockfull said:

The book was last I looked still in bookstore.  But treated with the “cone of silence”. Maybe they got rid of it altogether by now.

Cone or code?

 

57 minutes ago, chockfull said:

I remember when parents would put that on a loop and call all cartoons devilish and have their kiddos watch AOS on a loop.  I can’t even describe how dumb that is.

 

What absurdity!

I should know the answer to my own question by now (must renew mind). You aren’t making this up, are you?
 

 

 

 

 

[chockfull]

13 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

A nice treatment, Chockfull. Thanks.

 

Cone or code?

 

What absurdity!

I should know the answer to my own question by now (must renew mind). You aren’t making this up, are you?
 

 

 

 

 

 

umm no half this stuff I wish I was making up but am not!

[OldSkool]

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

VPW in teachings covered what he called “great statements” in Acts.  This is a supposed figure of speech that actually is supposed to be a spiritual summary and conclusion of the sections preceding them.

Ex: So mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed.

Ahh...the most disjointed, wordy, redundant writing Ive ever had in my hands: The Rise and Expansion of the Christian Church. The book that stated the book of Acts was a blueprint for the Church, which it is nothing of the sort. A blueprint is rigid and based on established building practices and building codes. Acts shows Christ founding his Church and working in and with his people carrying out the will of God. It follows along two main lines, Peter, the leader of the Judean or Jewish Church and Paul who was the leader of the gentile Church. The book is very fluid and shows Christ and his Church propagating and rising to the occasion no matter what happened.

Anywho....the figure of speech you mention Chockfull is symperasma, or concluding summary and Martindale's book is basically structured along those 8 summaries. The summaries are supposed to be milestones that the way international crossed along the way to the "So mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed!" So they renamed everthing from "---- over the world" to "----prevailing ---- ----" and actually they are back to "over the world" -- for example "word over the world".

That Acts is divided along these summarising concluding statements is I think somewhat obvious, but the book is clearly not a blueprint.

Thats interesting on the entire AOS and how that morphed and was taken to the extreme by Martindale. Vic created a monster in his own image. Thanks for the summation...they still sell RECC:

https://store.theway.org/store/rise-and-expansion/

Edited May 11, 2023 by OldSkool

[chockfull]

33 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Ahh...the most disjointed, wordy, redundant writing Ive ever had in my hands: The Rise and Expansion of the Christian Church. The book that stated the book of Acts was a blueprint for the Church, which it is nothing of the sort. A blueprint is rigid and based on established building practices and building codes. Acts shows Christ founding his Church and working in and with his people carrying out the will of God. It follows along two main lines, Peter, the leader of the Judean or Jewish Church and Paul who was the leader of the gentile Church. The book is very fluid and shows Christ and his Church propagating and rising to the occasion no matter what happened.

Anywho....the figure of speech you mention Chockfull is symperasma, or concluding summary and Martindale's book is basically structured along those 8 summaries. The summaries are supposed to be milestones that the way international crossed along the way to the "So mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed!" So they renamed everthing from "---- over the world" to "----prevailing ---- ----" and actually they are back to "over the world" -- for example "word over the world".

That Acts is divided along these summarising concluding statements is I think somewhat obvious, but the book is clearly not a blueprint.

Thats interesting on the entire AOS and how that morphed and was taken to the extreme by Martindale. Vic created a monster in his own image. Thanks for the summation...they still sell RECC:

https://store.theway.org/store/rise-and-expansion/

Yes more details!  It is interesting for sure.  I’m pretty sure the RNE book is treated with the cone of silence by TWI lol.  Meaning no quoting in Wag mag articles or teachings.  It is an example of research which they have released no other research books since I’m aware of which is probably why they still sell it.

Yes Acts is pretty much the only canonical history of the Christian church so it’s easy to see why some would get all caught up in it.

I think some of those “figures of speech” are just ways people can make scripture say something it really doesn’t.  I can appreciate things in native languages but they use it to twist and shoehorn scripture into places it is not naturally.  It should be just an enhancer like cinnamon on rice pudding as opposed to changing rice pudding to banana pudding like they do with it.

Peter and Paul.  Very different lives and callings.  Jerusalem and traveling the world by wooden ship.  And letters.  Then the conflict at the end with Paul over the legalistic Jerusalem crowd.

The problem with the great statements is they basically just extracted sales numbers out of “growing and prevailing” and put them down for field assignment quotas.  That’s where you see it today - the Way Tree and all the Pharisee responsibility lists.

“Run classes while quoting the BOD” or something.  Actually “carry the heart of the BOD to the field” is more the nonsense.

The problem is the Pharisee heart just leaves people wanting to run for the hills.

I think the Word prevails more here than under the “dull Way traditions where believers are controlled and censored”.  Here we have a rich input of scripture, psychology, and many other fields blending together to help people escape the grasp of the legalists who would put you to work for free.

 

 

 

[OldSkool]

33 minutes ago, chockfull said:

I think some of those “figures of speech” are just ways people can make scripture say something it really doesn’t.  I can appreciate things in native languages but they use it to twist and shoehorn scripture into places it is not naturally.  It should be just an enhancer like cinnamon on rice pudding as opposed to changing rice pudding to banana pudding like they do with it.

Good point, you got me thinking that whether the figure is legit or not the way international sure used them to try and redefine scripture to suit their own ends. Without a doubt.