So that we no longer be children, tossed and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men in cunning craftiness, with a view to the systematizing of the error;
in order that we may be no longer babes, tossed and carried about by every wind of that teaching [which is] in the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error;
~ ~ ~ ~
In my opinion Paul could very well have been describing harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leaders in their systematizing of deception and control.
And for all you geeky Greek fans here’s some more tech news:
In my opinion Paul could very well have been describing harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leaders in their systematizing of deception and control.
And for all you geeky Greek fans here’s some more tech news:
Equates dice playing with trickery! Which it often is, especially in the hand of a skilled conman.
Planos - associated with the word Planet - the planets were once known as "wandering stars" because their erratic orbits (compared with the rest of the stars) made them inexplicable to ancient astronomers
"Methodeian" translated as "deceit" also elsewhere as "wiles," both times with negative overlay.
So that we no longer be children, tossed and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men in cunning craftiness, with a view to the systematizing of the error;
in order that we may be no longer babes, tossed and carried about by every wind of that teaching [which is] in the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error;
Skyrider Translation
In order that we are no longer groupthink followers, burdened by dogmatic doctrine from a cult of deceivers and men of the flesh, hiding behind Scriptures and parasites who feed from the host of goodwill service to others.
In order that we are no longer groupthink followers, burdened by dogmatic doctrine from a cult of deceivers and men of the flesh, hiding behind Scriptures and parasites who feed from the host of goodwill service to others.
In this I believe GSC allows people to not succumb to the deceitful groupthink of TWI, and thus not be carried away by every wind of doctrine.
In TWI the doctrines with the most “wind” were the ones they fail to claim publicly - the revelation to VPW regarding “teaching the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century” and the confirmation by snow on the gas pumps.
Then comes the other “wind” in PFAL - the miraculous events in India that were unconfirmed by sources there. The key to the city, the story of the healing of the man with the withered hand that “doesn’t believe in your Jesus”. And all of the references to the “top minds” he studied with like Karl Barth. The most “wind” in PFAL comes from plagiarizing the source - BG Leonard for the class and JE Stiles for the RHST book. Also the “law of believing” is one huge burst of hot air wind.
The “systematizing of error” took place in all of the little edits of subsequent editions of class materials. Anything sketchy - edit it out. Perfect the logic leap explanations, make up charts, and set up a Way tree structure to put bondage on followers. It is a Pharisee tree structure how it functions, described directly in “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” a study in Phariseeism in scriptures. All the work in publications and putting together the classes to make them more mainstream and remove the doggie porn and conspiracy theories that were more out there - that is work in systematizing error.
All so the unsuspecting young Christian or troubled soul can be vacuumed up into their fold as a lifetime source of revenue by mandated giving rules.
So yes, don’t be tossed about by all the hot air produced by the Way ministry. Reject the systematized error and walk in freedom in Christ like God intended.
So that we no longer be children, tossed and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men in cunning craftiness, with a view to the systematizing of the error;
Specific to twi-followers..... "every wind of doctrine" = pfal
Every time followers sit in another pfal class, newer version or tangent teachings, the wind gales are strengthened. Adding to these winds is the constant idolizing of wierwille on a spiritual pedestal. These two factors, pfal and wierwille, keep the winds of deceit blowing twi-followers off their chartered course. They are tossed in a turbulent sea unable to reach the fair haven shores of Christ's love.
As intended, the craftiness of twi's leadership invites this turbulence. It keeps the "believer" dependent on twi-teachings to guide them to "safety."
Specific to twi-followers..... "every wind of doctrine" = pfal
Every time followers sit in another pfal class, newer version or tangent teachings, the wind gales are strengthened. Adding to these winds is the constant idolizing of wierwille on a spiritual pedestal. These two factors, pfal and wierwille, keep the winds of deceit blowing twi-followers off their chartered course. They are tossed in a turbulent sea unable to reach the fair haven shores of Christ's love.
As intended, the craftiness of twi's leadership invites this turbulence. It keeps the "believer" dependent on twi-teachings to guide them to "safety."
The systematizing of error is a great way to express the little nuance changes in governance that occur in top leadership.
Like NDAs to prevent anyone with inside knowledge from exposing it.
With every stroke of the whitewash brush the system gets more functional more alluring and more of a package deal. And more removed from historical blinders.
The JWs survived wrongfully predicting the return of Christ and whitewashed it. The Mormons are currently covering up a $20b + money laundering scandal.
Cults will cult. Whitewash is the most commonly bought color in the paint store.
SOOOO appreciate your insights and depth folks!!! My contribution (and support-seeking!) here is sharing about the pushback I got on Facebook for challenging a recent post by a still-faithful-twi leader. Here is his original post that got lots of support: "I know Dr Wierwille learned alot from men like Bullinger and Kenyon. I never heard him present it as if it was his work. He presented it as it is in truth and fact, as God's."
I posted this- "he did not credit most of what he taught re: receiving the holy spirit in PFAL to BG Leonard when BG had NOT given him permission to do so." Said I could document privately as I remember posters here sharing about vp basically stealing BG's class. I was accused of being "worldly and nitpicky", and there were many who gave evidence of him acknowledging his sources. You all have addressed these issues very well in the past, so am not looking for discussion on that. One particularly interesting thing was someone said that BG attended vp's retirement party; they have photos of BG w/ their daughters. HUH...
I responded with "Love you all". and "am glad that GOD is and will be our judge!"
Just sharing this here is very helpful, and I learned afresh about who to discuss what w/... Onward!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SOOOO appreciate your insights and depth folks!!! My contribution (and support-seeking!) here is sharing about the pushback I got on Facebook for challenging a recent post by a still-faithful-twi leader. Here is his original post that got lots of support: "I know Dr Wierwille learned alot from men like Bullinger and Kenyon. I never heard him present it as if it was his work. He presented it as it is in truth and fact, as God's."
I posted this- "he did not credit most of what he taught re: receiving the holy spirit in PFAL to BG Leonard when BG had NOT given him permission to do so." Said I could document privately as I remember posters here sharing about vp basically stealing BG's class. I was accused of being "worldly and nitpicky", and there were many who gave evidence of him acknowledging his sources. You all have addressed these issues very well in the past, so am not looking for discussion on that. One particularly interesting thing was someone said that BG attended vp's retirement party; they have photos of BG w/ their daughters. HUH...
I responded with "Love you all". and "am glad that GOD is and will be our judge!"
Just sharing this here is very helpful, and I learned afresh about who to discuss what w/... Onward!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing. I wanted to point out that leaders first statement you quoted is a complete cop out to logic.
Bullinger and Kenyon produced written material. God did not produce their results through automatic writing so what came out from the men’s work is not “in truth and in fact” Gods.
It is however the age old rationalization of VPWs plagiarism by whitewashing it with “all truth belongs to God”.
However behind the scenes TWI still legally pursues action against people who utilize any of their trademarks.
Which of the two faces of the Way are you encountering? The public whitewash one or the private Machiavellian Pharisee oriented one?
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T-Bone
Hey Skyrider, check out “systematizing” used in Ephesians 4:14 in alternate versions
A Faithful Version
So that we no longer be children, tossed and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men in cunning craftiness, with a view to the systematizing of the error;
Darby Bible Translation
in order that we may be no longer babes, tossed and carried about by every wind of that teaching [which is] in the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error;
~ ~ ~ ~
In my opinion Paul could very well have been describing harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leaders in their systematizing of deception and control.
And for all you geeky Greek fans here’s some more tech news:
Interlinear of Ephesians 4:14
Lexicon of Ephesians 4:14
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Rocky
Intriguing indeed... especially if I still held to the intrigue of fundamentalism and parsing of meanings of individual words.
Note: I do not mean that in any way as criticism of you or your reply to Skyrider.
Of course, we DO describe harmful, controlling pseudo-Christian cult leaders and the systematizing of deception and control.
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Twinky
Interesting, T-Bone. Not seen that Lexicon before. I found this bit especially interesting:
(kubeia)
(panourgia)
(planēs)
(methodeian)
Equates dice playing with trickery! Which it often is, especially in the hand of a skilled conman.
Planos - associated with the word Planet - the planets were once known as "wandering stars" because their erratic orbits (compared with the rest of the stars) made them inexplicable to ancient astronomers
"Methodeian" translated as "deceit" also elsewhere as "wiles," both times with negative overlay.
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skyrider
Skyrider Translation
In order that we are no longer groupthink followers, burdened by dogmatic doctrine from a cult of deceivers and men of the flesh, hiding behind Scriptures and parasites who feed from the host of goodwill service to others.
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chockfull
In this I believe GSC allows people to not succumb to the deceitful groupthink of TWI, and thus not be carried away by every wind of doctrine.
In TWI the doctrines with the most “wind” were the ones they fail to claim publicly - the revelation to VPW regarding “teaching the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century” and the confirmation by snow on the gas pumps.
Then comes the other “wind” in PFAL - the miraculous events in India that were unconfirmed by sources there. The key to the city, the story of the healing of the man with the withered hand that “doesn’t believe in your Jesus”. And all of the references to the “top minds” he studied with like Karl Barth. The most “wind” in PFAL comes from plagiarizing the source - BG Leonard for the class and JE Stiles for the RHST book. Also the “law of believing” is one huge burst of hot air wind.
The “systematizing of error” took place in all of the little edits of subsequent editions of class materials. Anything sketchy - edit it out. Perfect the logic leap explanations, make up charts, and set up a Way tree structure to put bondage on followers. It is a Pharisee tree structure how it functions, described directly in “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” a study in Phariseeism in scriptures. All the work in publications and putting together the classes to make them more mainstream and remove the doggie porn and conspiracy theories that were more out there - that is work in systematizing error.
All so the unsuspecting young Christian or troubled soul can be vacuumed up into their fold as a lifetime source of revenue by mandated giving rules.
So yes, don’t be tossed about by all the hot air produced by the Way ministry. Reject the systematized error and walk in freedom in Christ like God intended.
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skyrider
Specific to twi-followers..... "every wind of doctrine" = pfal
Every time followers sit in another pfal class, newer version or tangent teachings, the wind gales are strengthened. Adding to these winds is the constant idolizing of wierwille on a spiritual pedestal. These two factors, pfal and wierwille, keep the winds of deceit blowing twi-followers off their chartered course. They are tossed in a turbulent sea unable to reach the fair haven shores of Christ's love.
As intended, the craftiness of twi's leadership invites this turbulence. It keeps the "believer" dependent on twi-teachings to guide them to "safety."
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Share on other sites
chockfull
The systematizing of error is a great way to express the little nuance changes in governance that occur in top leadership.
Like NDAs to prevent anyone with inside knowledge from exposing it.
With every stroke of the whitewash brush the system gets more functional more alluring and more of a package deal. And more removed from historical blinders.
The JWs survived wrongfully predicting the return of Christ and whitewashed it. The Mormons are currently covering up a $20b + money laundering scandal.
Cults will cult. Whitewash is the most commonly bought color in the paint store.
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annio
SOOOO appreciate your insights and depth folks!!! My contribution (and support-seeking!) here is sharing about the pushback I got on Facebook for challenging a recent post by a still-faithful-twi leader. Here is his original post that got lots of support: "I know Dr Wierwille learned alot from men like Bullinger and Kenyon. I never heard him present it as if it was his work. He presented it as it is in truth and fact, as God's."
I posted this- "he did not credit most of what he taught re: receiving the holy spirit in PFAL to BG Leonard when BG had NOT given him permission to do so." Said I could document privately as I remember posters here sharing about vp basically stealing BG's class. I was accused of being "worldly and nitpicky", and there were many who gave evidence of him acknowledging his sources. You all have addressed these issues very well in the past, so am not looking for discussion on that. One particularly interesting thing was someone said that BG attended vp's retirement party; they have photos of BG w/ their daughters. HUH...
I responded with "Love you all". and "am glad that GOD is and will be our judge!"
Just sharing this here is very helpful, and I learned afresh about who to discuss what w/... Onward!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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chockfull
Thanks for sharing. I wanted to point out that leaders first statement you quoted is a complete cop out to logic.
Bullinger and Kenyon produced written material. God did not produce their results through automatic writing so what came out from the men’s work is not “in truth and in fact” Gods.
It is however the age old rationalization of VPWs plagiarism by whitewashing it with “all truth belongs to God”.
However behind the scenes TWI still legally pursues action against people who utilize any of their trademarks.
Which of the two faces of the Way are you encountering? The public whitewash one or the private Machiavellian Pharisee oriented one?
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