I'm just curious how you resolve these things in your life, with what you know now.
Why? Looking for tips on how to handle your life?
38 minutes ago, Mike said:
Your solution has a lot to do with the fullness of the conversation.
So now you read minds.
38 minutes ago, Mike said:
If you reckon yourself an interrogator, and I am sweating under the hot light, then please STOP IT !!
38 minutes ago, Mike said:
If you want me to answer your questions, then you answer mine.
Do you blame God or not for your crappy life?
More projection.
Did I say my life was crappy?
So who do you blame for our crappy life?
My life started getting better when I realized Saint Vic was a con man seeing snake oil in the form of a class.
(I can't be held responsible for balls you lob right over the plate)
Now, rather than focusing on me let's focus on your understand of God, i.e., that you can't depend on him (something you revealed in the fullness of your conversation)
Don't mix with me, Mike, you don't have the tools.
My life started getting better when I realized Saint Vic was a con man seeing snake oil in the form of a class.
(I can't be held responsible for balls you lob right over the plate)
Now, rather than focusing on me let's focus on your understand of God, i.e., that you can't depend on him (something you revealed in the fullness of your conversation)
Don't mix with me, Mike, you don't have the tools.
I concur that the “Word” taught by TWI in that category was fueled by VPW idolatry to prop up the idea of VPW being the only man on the planet functioning in all 5 “gift ministries”.
Genuine scriptural teachings are not multi level marketing and pyramid scheme tools to isolate and control.
18 hours ago, chockfull said:
To put this in terms that Mike can understand, this is like God saying “I have a jack, but I’m not going to help you. Why? Because I like to play games around mental assent.
Now go back and study your collaterals until you really, really, really, really truly “believe”. “
And the leaders can follow the example of the woman in the class whose kid got hit by a car due to her “believing” and similarly accuse those below them of the same, completing the victim blame cycle.
17 hours ago, waysider said:
You really can't blame God, though. He spent everything in the budget getting that lady her special drapes.
I am tempted to drop everything and get the folder into post-able form. It is one of the ECNs that I've been proposing in texts to leaders, both in and out of TWI-4.
I wish I had the time to yield to that temptation right now.
There is no temptation. Stop distracting by referring to fictional material.
If it’s not fictional then post it.
This is not the VP era of its true because VP says so. We require actual work done prior to referring to it.
Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Judah.A fake doctor named Goliath, who was from Ohio, came out of the Philistine camp. His height was a little over nine bottles of Drambuie stacked one on top of another.He had a beanie cap with propeller on his head and one good eye. The other peeper was a pig’s eye that he said was for enhanced awareness and perception. His lawyer / fixer and covered-cart driver went ahead of him to scope out the chicks. On either side of the cart was a sign If you see this cart a rockin’ don’t come a knockin’.
Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not empties floating by? Choose a man and have him come down and fight me.” For twelve sessions of extended nonsense the Philistine repeated the same challenge.
Now David tended his father’s sheep and was always packing heat since he had a concealed slingshot license. When he heard about what was going on at the Philistines’ Public Ex, he went there booms-quick to face Goliath.
When Goliath saw the challenger was just a scrawny little Hebrew boy he said, “You Hebrews and your budget cuts”.
David said to the Philistine, “Budget cuts my a$$!” Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone with a tiny inscription Lil’ Whoop-A$$ . He slung it and struck the Philistine in his one good eye. The blind giant had to be led away by the hand of his lawyer / fixer and covered-cart driver. The Philistines’ Public Ex was held in abeyance until further notice.
But if God's ability equals his willingness why didn't he give the revelation? ...
In all the posting frenzy with multiple people I totally missed this post of yours.I responded to the one right after this, but never saw this that preceded it.
You wrote:
“But if God's ability equals his willingness why didn't he give the revelation?”
I too have pulled my hair out asking God the same kind of questions.I imagine Paul asked God why he wasn’t getting sprung from jail and execution.I know for sure he pulled his hair out over his thorn in the flesh, and he finally got an answer that sounds very “budget” like “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
None of us like the “no cookie” answer.
I have no clear idea why it is this way, but it is. I have some limited understanding of it, though from the scriptures.They tell us of other hair pullers that have gone before us, some getting great miraculous results at times, but who ALL eventually ran out of gas, or karma, or budget, or the door was shut, or angels were delayed….
I don’t get it any better than you, but the scriptures have lots of examples like this.It is missing in the PFAL class because that is how laws are described in Physics: first in isolation, then later more advanced cases where other forces are interfering or trying to hinder.
That Daniel Chapter 9 incident opened my eyes to the reality that I have NO IDEA what is really going on in the spirit world and what God’s angels are doing with Christ Jesus leading their charges through open doors.
This came up a little regarding that man Peter and John healed who sat at the gate named Beautiful.How many days did they walk by him with no revelation?Why was God so tardy in getting that taken care of?I have no idea, but I have learned to relax and remember that we are in a spiritual war.
Didyou see the exchange yesterday that I had with So_crates several times about this war, and us living behind enemy lines, in a broken universe?George Lucas got that part right; that is no peace out there in the universe; it is continuous bigtime war in the spiritual universe.
If you saw that exchange, did you recognize how I was throwing out simple Foundational Class stuff at So_crates with those posts?
I was using my own “street” terminology, and he seemed to not be able to make the translation.Were you able to translate?…and see that I was bringing up the falls in the First and Second Heaven and Earth?And that the broken universe is in Romans 8:22 ? “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
That is how I stopped pulling my hair out at why doesn’t God fix things right now!
*/*/*
There was a man born blind, and it wasn’t his parents fault, if I remember Jesus’ words right.
This is like a “$hit Happens” verse in my mind.
Another one is Lazarus being very sick and Jesus doesn’t have the revelation to go to him immediately.Everyone at Lazarus’ house were probably pulling hair out over lots of stuff, like how did Lazarus get so sick in the first place?
I noticed you haven’t brought the problem of how did your son get robbed of normalcy in the first place. That is a tough one too, that I have pulled my hair out over. I have often seen leadership twist the devil’s knife by accusing the victim of allowing it.I had this thrown in my face more than once by Corps imitating what the were abuses with in training.
My best understanding, as I mentioned a few pages ago, is that in addition to the law of believing at work, there are others things going on, LOTS of other things going on, and they are war related and evil and not fair.
Remember prophet who prayed that his student prophet could see this, and that there were twice as many angels on our side?Lots of terrible confusing stuff happens in a war, even collateral damage.
Someday every tear will be wiped away, and everything will be fair and just, and “thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.”
I have no clear idea why it is this way, but it is.
Because the law of believing if false. It's that simple. Ive moved from a law of believing based relationship, where I do everything, to a faith in God/Christ relationship where my faith is in God to fulfill his promises and meet my needs above all that I could ask or think. To be clear I am not longer stuck where I was trying to rationalize why God wouldnt answer my demands. Now I ask (of course I do what I can) but I ask and wait on the Lord.
It is missing in the PFAL class because that is how laws are described in Physics: first in isolation, then later more advanced cases where other forces are interfering or trying to hinder.
Victor also wrote and uttered thousands of astonishingly nonsensical and poorly constructed sentences like this.
Because the law of believing if false. It's that simple.
I think it is your UNDERSTANDING of the law of believing that is false.
Your understanding (really all of our's; mine too) was stuck at the foundational level, where the law was first explained.
It was available to grow from that, but it took us a long time. For me it was from late 1971 to late 1988, before I started to advance my understanding from foundational.
Here is what an accurate understanding of the law of believing MUST include:
(1) Linking a promise or direct revelation to believing. This was slow in coming for all of us.
(2) Learning to recognize the subtle differences between believing and mental assent went over many people heads entirely.
(3) Recognizing the notion that lots of other forces are at work competing with our believing.
Few grads have ever risen to keenly understand these three crucial items.
I think it is your UNDERSTANDING of the law of believing that is false.
Because I can recognize a lie? Nah. Ive moved on. I understand fullwell what the lob is all about. Occultist use it too there mikey. But anywho. Im out for now.
I don’t get it any better than you, but the scriptures have lots of examples like this.It is missing in the PFAL class because that is how laws are described in Physics: first in isolation, then later more advanced cases where other forces are interfering or trying to hinder.
Nope – that’s not going to cut it!!!!!
It appears you’re making $hit up again.
So now there’s more to account for than just the law of believing. What bull-$hit! This is one of the many reasons why PFAL sucks too. Theories based on nothing more than nonsense – so it’s magical thinking - PLUSaccording to you there’s OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED!
The discipline of Physics overlaps…interconnects with other disciplines:
Physics is one of the oldest academic disciplines and, through its inclusion of astronomy, perhaps the oldest. Over much of the past two millennia, physics, chemistry, biology, and certain branches of mathematics were a part of natural philosophy, but during the Scientific Revolution in the 17th century these natural sciences emerged as unique research endeavors in their own right. Physics intersectswith many interdisciplinary areas of research, such as biophysics and quantum chemistry.
Troubleshooting the reason for the scarcity of miracles might take you almost as long as finishing
And please note how mike continues to assime scarcity of miracles in our lives. I have no shortage of miracles in my life, except I simply have no need to sound like Im boasting. So I will keep my life as private as needed in this regard.
Didyou see the exchange yesterday that I had with So_crates several times about this war, and us living behind enemy lines, in a broken universe?George Lucas got that part right; that is no peace out there in the universe; it is continuous bigtime war in the spiritual universe.
If you saw that exchange, did you recognize how I was throwing out simple Foundational Class stuff at So_crates with those posts?
I was using my own “street” terminology, and he seemed to not be able to make the translation.Were you able to translate?…and see that I was bringing up the falls in the First and Second Heaven and Earth?And that the broken universe is in Romans 8:22 ? “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
Yah, you did such a good job you wound up rabbiting in the end..
Oh, you hid behind the old I won't answer your question until you answer mine gambit. Now what would happen if we all used the same gambit on you? You'd have nobody to talk to because you cherry pick the questions you'll answer. So anybody should recognize the old I won't answer your question until you answer mine ploy.
So, getting back on track, you're saying we can't depend on God to meet our needs because if he can be delayed by one thing, he can be delayed again, need or greed.
Because I can recognize a lie? Nah. Ive moved on. I understand fullwell what the lob is all about. Occultist use it too there mikey. But anywho. Im out for now.
It sounds like you moved on, from an incomplete understanding of the PFAL version of how believing works, to a better understanding of item (3) and you can't control everything. I imagine, too, when you read the Gospels and Jesus teaches on how believing works you feel better about his words. Am I right about that?
So, getting back on track, you're saying we can't depend on God to meet our needs because if he can be delayed by one thing, he can be delayed again, need or greed.
Persistence in applying the law of believing is crucial also.
Remember the story where Jesus healed a blind man, but it didn't work right?
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chockfull
I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
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"Teaching" Romans to the Corps, Q&A: LCM: How much does your behavior that people do not see influence your example to them? VPW: It doesn't, unless you believe it will. LCM: You u
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Mike
What is your solution for all this?
Did you find a better way to think about God?
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So_crates
What's my solution have to do with your outrageous claim?
It's not what I think of God, it's what you think of God.
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Mike
I'm just curious how you resolve these things in your life, with what you know now.
Your solution has a lot to do with the fullness of the conversation.
If you reckon yourself an interrogator, and I am sweating under the hot light, then please STOP IT !!
If you want me to answer your questions, then you answer mine.
Do you blame God or not for your crappy life?
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So_crates
Why? Looking for tips on how to handle your life?
So now you read minds.
More projection.
Did I say my life was crappy?
So who do you blame for our crappy life?
My life started getting better when I realized Saint Vic was a con man seeing snake oil in the form of a class.
(I can't be held responsible for balls you lob right over the plate)
Now, rather than focusing on me let's focus on your understand of God, i.e., that you can't depend on him (something you revealed in the fullness of your conversation)
Don't mix with me, Mike, you don't have the tools.
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Mike
When you are ready to mix we can talk again.
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So_crates
I'll still be posting. Answer, don't. It makes little difference to me.
Think of all the time you'll save
And all thr typing I'll save.
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Rocky
Nice sarcasm by both chockful and waysider.
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waysider
You know what killed that little boy?
Budget cuts.
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chockfull
There is no temptation. Stop distracting by referring to fictional material.
If it’s not fictional then post it.
This is not the VP era of its true because VP says so. We require actual work done prior to referring to it.
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T-Bone
Fictitious Financial Planner Ploys
Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Judah. A fake doctor named Goliath, who was from Ohio, came out of the Philistine camp. His height was a little over nine bottles of Drambuie stacked one on top of another. He had a beanie cap with propeller on his head and one good eye. The other peeper was a pig’s eye that he said was for enhanced awareness and perception. His lawyer / fixer and covered-cart driver went ahead of him to scope out the chicks. On either side of the cart was a sign If you see this cart a rockin’ don’t come a knockin’.
Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not empties floating by? Choose a man and have him come down and fight me.” For twelve sessions of extended nonsense the Philistine repeated the same challenge.
Now David tended his father’s sheep and was always packing heat since he had a concealed slingshot license. When he heard about what was going on at the Philistines’ Public Ex, he went there booms-quick to face Goliath.
When Goliath saw the challenger was just a scrawny little Hebrew boy he said, “You Hebrews and your budget cuts”.
David said to the Philistine, “Budget cuts my a$$!” Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone with a tiny inscription Lil’ Whoop-A$$ . He slung it and struck the Philistine in his one good eye. The blind giant had to be led away by the hand of his lawyer / fixer and covered-cart driver. The Philistines’ Public Ex was held in abeyance until further notice.
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Mike
In all the posting frenzy with multiple people I totally missed this post of yours. I responded to the one right after this, but never saw this that preceded it.
You wrote:
“But if God's ability equals his willingness why didn't he give the revelation?”
I too have pulled my hair out asking God the same kind of questions. I imagine Paul asked God why he wasn’t getting sprung from jail and execution. I know for sure he pulled his hair out over his thorn in the flesh, and he finally got an answer that sounds very “budget” like “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
None of us like the “no cookie” answer.
I have no clear idea why it is this way, but it is. I have some limited understanding of it, though from the scriptures. They tell us of other hair pullers that have gone before us, some getting great miraculous results at times, but who ALL eventually ran out of gas, or karma, or budget, or the door was shut, or angels were delayed….
I don’t get it any better than you, but the scriptures have lots of examples like this. It is missing in the PFAL class because that is how laws are described in Physics: first in isolation, then later more advanced cases where other forces are interfering or trying to hinder.
That Daniel Chapter 9 incident opened my eyes to the reality that I have NO IDEA what is really going on in the spirit world and what God’s angels are doing with Christ Jesus leading their charges through open doors.
This came up a little regarding that man Peter and John healed who sat at the gate named Beautiful. How many days did they walk by him with no revelation? Why was God so tardy in getting that taken care of? I have no idea, but I have learned to relax and remember that we are in a spiritual war.
Did you see the exchange yesterday that I had with So_crates several times about this war, and us living behind enemy lines, in a broken universe? George Lucas got that part right; that is no peace out there in the universe; it is continuous bigtime war in the spiritual universe.
If you saw that exchange, did you recognize how I was throwing out simple Foundational Class stuff at So_crates with those posts?
I was using my own “street” terminology, and he seemed to not be able to make the translation. Were you able to translate? …and see that I was bringing up the falls in the First and Second Heaven and Earth? And that the broken universe is in Romans 8:22 ? “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
That is how I stopped pulling my hair out at why doesn’t God fix things right now!
*/*/*
There was a man born blind, and it wasn’t his parents fault, if I remember Jesus’ words right.
This is like a “$hit Happens” verse in my mind.
Another one is Lazarus being very sick and Jesus doesn’t have the revelation to go to him immediately. Everyone at Lazarus’ house were probably pulling hair out over lots of stuff, like how did Lazarus get so sick in the first place?
I noticed you haven’t brought the problem of how did your son get robbed of normalcy in the first place. That is a tough one too, that I have pulled my hair out over. I have often seen leadership twist the devil’s knife by accusing the victim of allowing it. I had this thrown in my face more than once by Corps imitating what the were abuses with in training.
My best understanding, as I mentioned a few pages ago, is that in addition to the law of believing at work, there are others things going on, LOTS of other things going on, and they are war related and evil and not fair.
Remember prophet who prayed that his student prophet could see this, and that there were twice as many angels on our side? Lots of terrible confusing stuff happens in a war, even collateral damage.
Someday every tear will be wiped away, and everything will be fair and just, and “thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.”
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OldSkool
Because the law of believing if false. It's that simple. Ive moved from a law of believing based relationship, where I do everything, to a faith in God/Christ relationship where my faith is in God to fulfill his promises and meet my needs above all that I could ask or think. To be clear I am not longer stuck where I was trying to rationalize why God wouldnt answer my demands. Now I ask (of course I do what I can) but I ask and wait on the Lord.
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Nathan_Jr
No doubt.
Victor also wrote and uttered thousands of astonishingly nonsensical and poorly constructed sentences like this.
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Mike
I think it is your UNDERSTANDING of the law of believing that is false.
Your understanding (really all of our's; mine too) was stuck at the foundational level, where the law was first explained.
It was available to grow from that, but it took us a long time. For me it was from late 1971 to late 1988, before I started to advance my understanding from foundational.
Here is what an accurate understanding of the law of believing MUST include:
(1) Linking a promise or direct revelation to believing. This was slow in coming for all of us.
(2) Learning to recognize the subtle differences between believing and mental assent went over many people heads entirely.
(3) Recognizing the notion that lots of other forces are at work competing with our believing.
Few grads have ever risen to keenly understand these three crucial items.
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Mike
Yup. With those 3 points I just mentioned above, no one would think they could do everything. We missed all 3 of those points bigtime.
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Mike
It is heavy data laden.
Handle with care.
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OldSkool
Because I can recognize a lie? Nah. Ive moved on. I understand fullwell what the lob is all about. Occultist use it too there mikey. But anywho. Im out for now.
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T-Bone
Nope – that’s not going to cut it!!!!!
It appears you’re making $hit up again.
So now there’s more to account for than just the law of believing. What bull-$hit!
This is one of the many reasons why PFAL sucks too. Theories based on nothing more than nonsense – so it’s magical thinking - PLUS according to you there’s OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED!
The discipline of Physics overlaps…interconnects with other disciplines:
Physics is one of the oldest academic disciplines and, through its inclusion of astronomy, perhaps the oldest. Over much of the past two millennia, physics, chemistry, biology, and certain branches of mathematics were a part of natural philosophy, but during the Scientific Revolution in the 17th century these natural sciences emerged as unique research endeavors in their own right. Physics intersects with many interdisciplinary areas of research, such as biophysics and quantum chemistry.
From: Physics - Wikipedia
once again you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Troubleshooting the reason for the scarcity of miracles might take you almost as long as finishing Undertow – give or take a decade or two.
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OldSkool
And please note how mike continues to assime scarcity of miracles in our lives. I have no shortage of miracles in my life, except I simply have no need to sound like Im boasting. So I will keep my life as private as needed in this regard.
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waysider
Yeah, that totally explains the Boy vs Buick story.
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Rocky
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So_crates
Yah, you did such a good job you wound up rabbiting in the end..
Oh, you hid behind the old I won't answer your question until you answer mine gambit. Now what would happen if we all used the same gambit on you? You'd have nobody to talk to because you cherry pick the questions you'll answer. So anybody should recognize the old I won't answer your question until you answer mine ploy.
So, getting back on track, you're saying we can't depend on God to meet our needs because if he can be delayed by one thing, he can be delayed again, need or greed.
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Mike
It sounds like you moved on, from an incomplete understanding of the PFAL version of how believing works, to a better understanding of item (3) and you can't control everything. I imagine, too, when you read the Gospels and Jesus teaches on how believing works you feel better about his words. Am I right about that?
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Mike
Persistence in applying the law of believing is crucial also.
Remember the story where Jesus healed a blind man, but it didn't work right?
So, he did it again and it worked.
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