I started asking leaders in the 1980s if they had any prophet's phone numbers in their Roladex. It made them angry, and it made my point. There were not many miracles past the 70s, and there never were any prophets.
Even though prophets is one of the gift ministries? You know the people that told leaders who were off the word to get back on.
Scripture believing is for normal health and normal healing.
Direct revelation is for special believing and miracles.
Yeah, I read that the first time you posted it. It's straight out of the Advanced Class, though somewhat paraphrased. Am I correct in assuming you know by now that the definitions in the Advanced Class are from an outside source? What sort of scriptural evidence are you providing to bolster your point?
I thought God chose who was a prophet, liked and wanting have nothing to do with it.
God might choose one only to be refused, like with Jonah.
It takes two to tango this kind of thing. Remember how rejected prophets are. I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves. Nowadays, everyone is encouraged to make the best of themselves and excel over others. Not good prophet prep.
God might choose one only to be refused, like with Jonah.
It takes two to tango this kind of thing. Remember how rejected prophets are. I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves. Nowadays, everyone is encouraged to make the best of themselves and excel over others. Not good prophet prep.
Again you try to bull your way out of it.
Read Amos 7:14.
Also, how do you know nobody wants the job? You ask everyone God asked to be a prophet?
God might choose one only to be refused, like with Jonah.
It takes two to tango this kind of thing. Remember how rejected prophets are. I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves. Nowadays, everyone is encouraged to make the best of themselves and excel over others. Not good prophet prep.
Jonah accepted being a prophet. He refused a SPECIFIC order but otherwise was a prophet. You made it sound like Jonah refused the call to be a prophet, period.
I remember how some people don't want to hear what a prophet said, because they'd rather pretend they weren't disobeying God, and were more comfortable following actions of their own, and deciding that God Almighty was all right with them or approved of them.
"I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves."
Generally, they weren't full of themselves, else they would have been unfit to serve. The full description you give is of men who were "meek"- not to God's instructions but in general, Casper Milquetoasts, men who were unused to winning, men who were "accustomed to rejection," or, simply, as you put it, "LOSERS."
Before having the audacity to make such a claim about leaders appointed by God Almighty, I'd want to have an ironclad case it was so, line-by-line out of the Bible. (As if one was accusing the apostle Paul of being a sex pervert.) Even vpw said that a DEFINING characteristic of prophets was COURAGE and BOLDNESS. They have to have the guts to go before the entire nation and say "God's unhappy with what you've done, and you need to straighten up and fly right." They have to have the guts to go before the King of Israel and say "Here's what you must do to get your heart right with God, for you have offended Him."
Sounds like you have no idea what it means to BE a prophet of God Almighty.
I started asking leaders in the 1980s if they had any prophet's phone numbers in their Roladex. It made them angry, and it made my point. There were not many miracles past the 70s, and there never were any prophets.
It's incredibly obvious in hindsight.
In twi, there were definitions of "gift ministries", but people were actively discouraged from seeking to serve God in ANY of them! All of the definitions were bent to make it look like they applied to vpw, and then anyone who showed a predilection toward any of them was discouraged from seeking it, because it drew attention away from vpw, and he wanted all the power to himself. So, he wanted all the gift ministries- even if it was all an elaborate deception, and he wanted NOBODY to have gift ministries because it would take away from his spotlight.
Think about it. Why does an evangelist not actually EVANGELIZE? The definition was changed to make an "evangelist" someone who stays home and NEVER gets on the field. Why? So vpw could claim the title- or INSINUATE he had the title- and still stay home. The emphasis for a prophet was not "exhort God's people to make corrections to please God" - it was on "one who speaks for God" and skipped the substance of what was spoken! Why? Again, to claim vpw "spoke for God". What about a teacher? Do you think there would be room for more than one teacher, one alongside the self-titled "THE Teacher"? As for "apostles", they are "sent ones"- except in twi and ex-twi. Then they are people who "bring new light to their generation, it may be 'old light' but to them it is new.'" Why in the world have such an odd explanation? So it could be flexed enough to claim vpw was an apostle, teaching people the "old light" of Pentecost without leaving his pulpit, never actually being "SENT" anywhere.
vpw would be especially interested in keeping any thoughts about PROPHETS stamped down sharply. Imagine someone with authority from God Almighty, going to vpw and the others, and publicly confronting them on the need to obey God and change their sinful ways. vpw would have responded much like others of previous centuries- with physical violence. He would have had them physically thrown out and escorted away AT GUNPOINT and with attack dogs following.
So, no, twi never had a Rolodex of gift ministers, ESPECIALLY of prophets.
In twi, there were definitions of "gift ministries", but people were actively discouraged from seeking to serve God in ANY of them! All of the definitions were bent to make it look like they applied to vpw, and then anyone who showed a predilection toward any of them was discouraged from seeking it, because it drew attention away from vpw, and he wanted all the power to himself. So, he wanted all the gift ministries- even if it was all an elaborate deception, and he wanted NOBODY to have gift ministries because it would take away from his spotlight.
Think about it. Why does an evangelist not actually EVANGELIZE? The definition was changed to make an "evangelist" someone who stays home and NEVER gets on the field. Why? So vpw could claim the title- or INSINUATE he had the title- and still stay home. The emphasis for a prophet was not "exhort God's people to make corrections to please God" - it was on "one who speaks for God" and skipped the substance of what was spoken! Why? Again, to claim vpw "spoke for God". What about a teacher? Do you think there would be room for more than one teacher, one alongside the self-titled "THE Teacher"? As for "apostles", they are "sent ones"- except in twi and ex-twi. Then they are people who "bring new light to their generation, it may be 'old light' but to them it is new.'" Why in the world have such an odd explanation? So it could be flexed enough to claim vpw was an apostle, teaching people the "old light" of Pentecost without leaving his pulpit, never actually being "SENT" anywhere.
vpw would be especially interested in keeping any thoughts about PROPHETS stamped down sharply. Imagine someone with authority from God Almighty, going to vpw and the others, and publicly confronting them on the need to obey God and change their sinful ways. vpw would have responded much like others of previous centuries- with physical violence. He would have had them physically thrown out and escorted away AT GUNPOINT and with attack dogs following.
So, no, twi never had a Rolodex of gift ministers, ESPECIALLY of prophets.
Yes this is telling. The only record of any “gift ministries” you would ever have is the spoken prophecy at the time of ordination. Then the rumors spread by those attending.
The definitions of “gift ministries” is still vague and random, despite dedicating months of Corpse night teachings to try and teach them from scripture.
I don’t trust what they teach in I Cor 12-14 any farther than I can throw them. The fruit of their teaching is an isolationist fundamentalist cult who by their lifestyle literally says to the hand “I have no need of you”. Why would they all of a sudden have less sketchy truth on long suits and abilities?
That teaching really does prop up all the little fiefdoms set up by the smaller Way moglets though.
I concur that the “Word” taught by TWI in that category was fueled by VPW idolatry to prop up the idea of VPW being the only man on the planet functioning in all 5 “gift ministries”.
Genuine scriptural teachings are not multi level marketing and pyramid scheme tools to isolate and control.
"Direct revelations are for special believing for miracles"
This is an essential cop out in the huckster's bag of tricks. (Sine qua non.) It's so convenient. It fits like a glove full of bullshonta.
"Will you please cast out that spurt?"
"Not without revelation... I mean, I know how (H-O-W)... but, but... I'm not doing anything until I get revelation."
"What about Johnny's withered hand? Can you heal that?"
"I can, I mean, I know how (H-O-W), but I won't, unless l get revelation."
"Oh."
Come on people!! F cking bullsh it!!!
To put this in terms that Mike can understand, this is like God saying “I have a jack, but I’m not going to help you. Why? Because I like to play games around mental assent.
Now go back and study your collaterals until you really, really, really, really truly “believe”. “
And the leaders can follow the example of the woman in the class whose kid got hit by a car due to her “believing” and similarly accuse those below them of the same, completing the victim blame cycle.
Both times you listed all the things you did there was no mention of you getting a direct revelation from God for what to do, in this case.
It looks like you were doing the same kind of thing I was doing in my car: Pumping up believing in scriptures with every technique we could come up with.
But if God's ability equals his willingness why didn't he give the revelation? Out of respect for my son I won't post anymore of what he went through, but it was a living h3ll. So why would God leave us in that state of affairs if we were living according his will, which at the time was the law of believing?
Truth of the matter is the law of believing is a lie. Since I humbled myself from demanding God do what I want and have developed the humility to learn of him and live his ways everything has changed. Ive had so many miracalous things happen these past several years. But Im not here to boast on any of that. Im just saying Im no longer in the sorry state I was when I described myself in that article. Im delivered and free.
Direct revelations are for special believing for miracles.
I mean you no disrespect, but a lot of what you share makes all this sound as if it's more of an intellectual pursuit for you. Can you see that people are victimized by these false doctrines? Its an entirely different affair when you have actual skin in the game and it's life or death and your child's life is at stake. You don't get to go back and figure what went wrong...or pontificate something ludicrous as a solution so you can try it out next time....
I mean you no disrespect, but a lot of what you share makes all this sound as if it's more of an intellectual pursuit for you. Can you see that people are victimized by these false doctrines? Its an entirely different affair when you have actual skin in the game and it's life or death and your child's life is at stake. You don't get to go back and figure what went wrong...or pontificate something ludicrous as a solution so you can try it out next time....
Thanks much, AGAIN, Old-Skool.
I feel no dis-respect.
I appreciate the pleasant atmosphere to discuss this.
If I forget, or if my text is wanting of creative emogies, please forgive me.
*/*/*/*
Yes, I do see that people are victimized.
And it pains me, and I feel for them, and I thank God I was far less victimized. I have my minor battle scars, a few of them, but mostly healed now.After TWI there were other private ways I was victimized, and worse, and itwasn’t with religious people. So I can relate to the victims in general, and I want to help them as a whole, and most of all, one-by-one in person.
*/*/*
Yes, I do see it as an intellectual pursuit at times, in order to find the best ways to help the victims. This is a very complex pursuit, because there are several kinds of victims, there are several periods of time in which the abuses occurred, there was a large body ofwritten and spoken data to sort thru for good info vs. bad info. There are lots of intellectual opinions as to where the baby ends and where the bathwater begins, and sorting through this large inventory takes a lot of brains, a lot of energy, and a lot of time.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
So here we are, with a bunch or intellectuals using keyboards to pursue causes of abuse and solutions to a vast array of complicated pigeonholes that are topics and threads here.
I think that separating truth from error is a worthwhile keyboard pursuit to some degree, so that is why I contribute here, in the keyboard sense.
When I am in private texting things change.
When I am face-to-face things change.
But here in keyboardland it is pretty much an intellectual pursuit for all of us.
And I have skin in the game that I prefer to not pass thru my keyboard about,,, for my privacy and for the privacy of others. I have confided some of these things to as people in private, to the extent I think they could help me, or to the extent I thought that I can help them.
I have skin in theTWI game in the sense that I took it seriously that we grads were family with seed of the same Father, and that we were bonded on a mission from God together. I don’t see myself stopping this taking it serious.
It completely baffles me how so many times I have seen a loving grad family split up for some dumb reason, and they all want to hate each othe,r and deny or forget the strong family ties we had.
*/*/*
It may have sounded in the past 20 years that I only have a one-size-fits-allway of dealing with the abuses.But I had a lot going on in private those 20 years.
I had local grads of all flavors and victimhood that I was interacting with, and I had about 10 or 12 GreaseSpotters I was dealing with in e-mails and phone calls. I had the Open Mic people and a few other groups I’ve never mentioned here.
The GSC friends I made then were either rare posters here, or never-posters.Some I am still very good friends with.
NONE of the richness of interactions I had over the past 20 years with all these varieties of people, both grads and pagans, ever leaked into my posting here. I was a one-trick-pony by my design.
But, as I have stated several times, I finished that job.I am now allowing more of my positions and opinions of solution(s) be known.
In the first 20 years I almost never distanced myself from anything VPW.I focused almost entirely on the collaterals and other printed works. But in recent months, all that has changed.My one-trick-pony days are over.
I have a special regard for the collaterals, but I have been making it known how strongly I have distanced myself from many things TWIish.Not all, though.It is a large sorting process, and I protest how it is done mass production style here.
*/*/*
In my humble opinion, GSC posters can help others better if they adopt a more realistic and detailed model of what went wrong.It is not just one big bad guy in this story; that’s simplistic.
This is a VERY complicated problem, and most of the victims know it.You can’t win their trust with a pure evil model of nearly everything VPW said, did, and wrote.The victims are not that stupid, most of them.
There is so much good that came to us all, and the victims know that too. What they don’t know is exactly what was correct that they have in their brain versus what was not correct in their brain. Telling them to dump it all and start over will repel the wise ones, and screw up the less wise ones.That is my opinion.
*/*/*
If it is thought that I contaminate GSC with my intellectualism, look at T-Bone, and Rocky, and Word Wolf, all operating as college professors here with their intellectual posting.
I am not complaining about this. Sometimes I like their links and summaries.
It’s just that I think that it might be worth considering that my intellectual pursuits here are worth considering in the mix, as you all pursue solutions and closure.
Anyway, I just wanted most to let you know I feel for the victims.I feel like we’re in a war with real casualties, and most tragically, some of them are collateral damage.
*/*/*/*
I had no idea that pun in the last sentence was going to come out, until the period at the end of the sentence was typed.LoLThis fits in with my theory of comedy, that it is so entropy driven. I’m glad I resisted the impulse to edit it, and preserved it for your folks to have a laugh over.
I want to thank you again for making this post pleasant.
Yeah, I read that the first time you posted it. It's straight out of the Advanced Class, though somewhat paraphrased. Am I correct in assuming you know by now that the definitions in the Advanced Class are from an outside source? What sort of scriptural evidence are you providing to bolster your point?
No, not any folders on this topic.
A lot of this is from scriptures in my head and seeing how things fit. My AC was in 1975, and I credit that as my start. I've paid close attention to some of these issues, seeing how the fit with scripture. But I've not approached this from a perspective of DERIVING it all from scripture. Once shown these things in the AC, a lot of it becomes self-evident.
Jonah accepted being a prophet. He refused a SPECIFIC order but otherwise was a prophet. You made it sound like Jonah refused the call to be a prophet, period.
I remember how some people don't want to hear what a prophet said, because they'd rather pretend they weren't disobeying God, and were more comfortable following actions of their own, and deciding that God Almighty was all right with them or approved of them.
"I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves."
Generally, they weren't full of themselves, else they would have been unfit to serve. The full description you give is of men who were "meek"- not to God's instructions but in general, Casper Milquetoasts, men who were unused to winning, men who were "accustomed to rejection," or, simply, as you put it, "LOSERS."
Before having the audacity to make such a claim about leaders appointed by God Almighty, I'd want to have an ironclad case it was so, line-by-line out of the Bible. (As if one was accusing the apostle Paul of being a sex pervert.) Even vpw said that a DEFINING characteristic of prophets was COURAGE and BOLDNESS. They have to have the guts to go before the entire nation and say "God's unhappy with what you've done, and you need to straighten up and fly right." They have to have the guts to go before the King of Israel and say "Here's what you must do to get your heart right with God, for you have offended Him."
Sounds like you have no idea what it means to BE a prophet of God Almighty.
You said it better than me. I agree.
Milquetoasts, no. Just the opposite towards men: fearless, almost like a man who has nothing to lose.
I was talking about meek towards God only, like Moses.
Can you see that people are victimized by these false doctrines? It’s an entirely different affair when you have actual skin in the game and its life or death and your child's life is at stake. You don't get to go back and figure what went wrong...or pontificate something ludicrous as a solution so you can try it out next time....
^^This can’t be repeated enough.
It’s true, even if you don’t beleeeve it. Hey! I didn’t write the book.
Yes this is telling. The only record of any “gift ministries” you would ever have is the spoken prophecy at the time of ordination. Then the rumors spread by those attending.
The definitions of “gift ministries” is still vague and random, despite dedicating months of Corpse night teachings to try and teach them from scripture.
I don’t trust what they teach in I Cor 12-14 any farther than I can throw them. The fruit of their teaching is an isolationist fundamentalist cult who by their lifestyle literally says to the hand “I have no need of you”. Why would they all of a sudden have less sketchy truth on long suits and abilities?
That teaching really does prop up all the little fiefdoms set up by the smaller Way moglets though.
I concur that the “Word” taught by TWI in that category was fueled by VPW idolatry to prop up the idea of VPW being the only man on the planet functioning in all 5 “gift ministries”.
Genuine scriptural teachings are not multi level marketing and pyramid scheme tools to isolate and control.
I have a folder concurring with much of this that I have prepared for TWI-4 people. Some of them I have already talked to in person or in texting about the Revered Title versus gift ministries. I have been received well. Maybe I should post on that folder sometime. The following discussion would probably beef it up some.
To put this in terms that Mike can understand, this is like God saying “I have a jack, but I’m not going to help you. Why? Because I like to play games around mental assent.
Now go back and study your collaterals until you really, really, really, really truly “believe”. “
And the leaders can follow the example of the woman in the class whose kid got hit by a car due to her “believing” and similarly accuse those below them of the same, completing the victim blame cycle.
I disagree. There is a training period and an application period. You are emphasizing the training period gone bad. It wasn't always that bad, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
Did you see my post yesterday of the 78 or 8 passages from the Gospels? They were all on the topic of the appropriate "blame" Jesus handed out in the Gospels to STUDENTS who he was teaching to believe better.
No, not any folders on this topic.
A lot of this is from scriptures in my head and seeing how things fit. My AC was in 1975, and I credit that as my start. I've paid close attention to some of these issues, seeing how the fit with scripture. But I've not approached this from a perspective of DERIVING it all from scripture. Once shown these things in the AC, a lot of it becomes self-evident.
I have the complete transcripts of AC72 and AC79. Both taught directly by Vic. They include Q&A sessions at the end where vic “answers” questions. The questioners are named.
The transcripts are fascinating and astonishing primary sources of historical evidence. No matter how hard one tries, they can’t be whitewashed. They can’t be misinterpreted. They can’t be misunderstood.
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chockfull
I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
chockfull
The Corps is a necessary cult element providing free labor at the expense of volunteers lives. Any imagery like the Marines promotes extremist behavior. No other Christian seminary or school use
Nathan_Jr
"Teaching" Romans to the Corps, Q&A: LCM: How much does your behavior that people do not see influence your example to them? VPW: It doesn't, unless you believe it will. LCM: You u
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So_crates
Even though prophets is one of the gift ministries? You know the people that told leaders who were off the word to get back on.
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Mike
Nobody likes them, so nobody wants to be one.
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waysider
Yeah, I read that the first time you posted it. It's straight out of the Advanced Class, though somewhat paraphrased. Am I correct in assuming you know by now that the definitions in the Advanced Class are from an outside source? What sort of scriptural evidence are you providing to bolster your point?
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So_crates
I thought God chose who was a prophet, liked and wanting have nothing to do with it.
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waysider
Were the people in the Old Testament aware of this?
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Mike
God might choose one only to be refused, like with Jonah.
It takes two to tango this kind of thing. Remember how rejected prophets are. I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves. Nowadays, everyone is encouraged to make the best of themselves and excel over others. Not good prophet prep.
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So_crates
Again you try to bull your way out of it.
Read Amos 7:14.
Also, how do you know nobody wants the job? You ask everyone God asked to be a prophet?
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waysider
I hope God never asks me to be a prophet like Jonah. I'm not too keen on seafood.
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Nathan_Jr
"Direct revelations are for special believing for miracles"
This is an essential cop out in the huckster's bag of tricks. (Sine qua non.) It's so convenient. It fits like a glove full of bullshonta.
"Will you please cast out that spurt?"
"Not without revelation... I mean, I know how (H-O-W)... but, but... I'm not doing anything until I get revelation."
"What about Johnny's withered hand? Can you heal that?"
"I can, I mean, I know how (H-O-W), but I won't, unless l get revelation."
"Oh."
Come on people!! F cking bullsh it!!!
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WordWolf
Jonah accepted being a prophet. He refused a SPECIFIC order but otherwise was a prophet. You made it sound like Jonah refused the call to be a prophet, period.
I remember how some people don't want to hear what a prophet said, because they'd rather pretend they weren't disobeying God, and were more comfortable following actions of their own, and deciding that God Almighty was all right with them or approved of them.
"I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves."
Generally, they weren't full of themselves, else they would have been unfit to serve. The full description you give is of men who were "meek"- not to God's instructions but in general, Casper Milquetoasts, men who were unused to winning, men who were "accustomed to rejection," or, simply, as you put it, "LOSERS."
Before having the audacity to make such a claim about leaders appointed by God Almighty, I'd want to have an ironclad case it was so, line-by-line out of the Bible. (As if one was accusing the apostle Paul of being a sex pervert.) Even vpw said that a DEFINING characteristic of prophets was COURAGE and BOLDNESS. They have to have the guts to go before the entire nation and say "God's unhappy with what you've done, and you need to straighten up and fly right." They have to have the guts to go before the King of Israel and say "Here's what you must do to get your heart right with God, for you have offended Him."
Sounds like you have no idea what it means to BE a prophet of God Almighty.
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WordWolf
It's incredibly obvious in hindsight.
In twi, there were definitions of "gift ministries", but people were actively discouraged from seeking to serve God in ANY of them! All of the definitions were bent to make it look like they applied to vpw, and then anyone who showed a predilection toward any of them was discouraged from seeking it, because it drew attention away from vpw, and he wanted all the power to himself. So, he wanted all the gift ministries- even if it was all an elaborate deception, and he wanted NOBODY to have gift ministries because it would take away from his spotlight.
Think about it. Why does an evangelist not actually EVANGELIZE? The definition was changed to make an "evangelist" someone who stays home and NEVER gets on the field. Why? So vpw could claim the title- or INSINUATE he had the title- and still stay home. The emphasis for a prophet was not "exhort God's people to make corrections to please God" - it was on "one who speaks for God" and skipped the substance of what was spoken! Why? Again, to claim vpw "spoke for God". What about a teacher? Do you think there would be room for more than one teacher, one alongside the self-titled "THE Teacher"? As for "apostles", they are "sent ones"- except in twi and ex-twi. Then they are people who "bring new light to their generation, it may be 'old light' but to them it is new.'" Why in the world have such an odd explanation? So it could be flexed enough to claim vpw was an apostle, teaching people the "old light" of Pentecost without leaving his pulpit, never actually being "SENT" anywhere.
vpw would be especially interested in keeping any thoughts about PROPHETS stamped down sharply. Imagine someone with authority from God Almighty, going to vpw and the others, and publicly confronting them on the need to obey God and change their sinful ways. vpw would have responded much like others of previous centuries- with physical violence. He would have had them physically thrown out and escorted away AT GUNPOINT and with attack dogs following.
So, no, twi never had a Rolodex of gift ministers, ESPECIALLY of prophets.
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chockfull
Yes this is telling. The only record of any “gift ministries” you would ever have is the spoken prophecy at the time of ordination. Then the rumors spread by those attending.
The definitions of “gift ministries” is still vague and random, despite dedicating months of Corpse night teachings to try and teach them from scripture.
I don’t trust what they teach in I Cor 12-14 any farther than I can throw them. The fruit of their teaching is an isolationist fundamentalist cult who by their lifestyle literally says to the hand “I have no need of you”. Why would they all of a sudden have less sketchy truth on long suits and abilities?
That teaching really does prop up all the little fiefdoms set up by the smaller Way moglets though.
I concur that the “Word” taught by TWI in that category was fueled by VPW idolatry to prop up the idea of VPW being the only man on the planet functioning in all 5 “gift ministries”.
Genuine scriptural teachings are not multi level marketing and pyramid scheme tools to isolate and control.
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chockfull
To put this in terms that Mike can understand, this is like God saying “I have a jack, but I’m not going to help you. Why? Because I like to play games around mental assent.
Now go back and study your collaterals until you really, really, really, really truly “believe”. “
And the leaders can follow the example of the woman in the class whose kid got hit by a car due to her “believing” and similarly accuse those below them of the same, completing the victim blame cycle.
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waysider
You really can't blame God, though. He spent everything in the budget getting that lady her special drapes.
(If I ever get my believing together, I'm gonna ask for those Lincoln Logs I've wanted since third grade.)
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OldSkool
But if God's ability equals his willingness why didn't he give the revelation? Out of respect for my son I won't post anymore of what he went through, but it was a living h3ll. So why would God leave us in that state of affairs if we were living according his will, which at the time was the law of believing?
Truth of the matter is the law of believing is a lie. Since I humbled myself from demanding God do what I want and have developed the humility to learn of him and live his ways everything has changed. Ive had so many miracalous things happen these past several years. But Im not here to boast on any of that. Im just saying Im no longer in the sorry state I was when I described myself in that article. Im delivered and free.
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OldSkool
I mean you no disrespect, but a lot of what you share makes all this sound as if it's more of an intellectual pursuit for you. Can you see that people are victimized by these false doctrines? Its an entirely different affair when you have actual skin in the game and it's life or death and your child's life is at stake. You don't get to go back and figure what went wrong...or pontificate something ludicrous as a solution so you can try it out next time....
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Mike
Thanks much, AGAIN, Old-Skool.
I feel no dis-respect.
I appreciate the pleasant atmosphere to discuss this.
If I forget, or if my text is wanting of creative emogies, please forgive me.
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Yes, I do see that people are victimized.
And it pains me, and I feel for them, and I thank God I was far less victimized. I have my minor battle scars, a few of them, but mostly healed now. After TWI there were other private ways I was victimized, and worse, and it wasn’t with religious people. So I can relate to the victims in general, and I want to help them as a whole, and most of all, one-by-one in person.
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Yes, I do see it as an intellectual pursuit at times, in order to find the best ways to help the victims. This is a very complex pursuit, because there are several kinds of victims, there are several periods of time in which the abuses occurred, there was a large body of written and spoken data to sort thru for good info vs. bad info. There are lots of intellectual opinions as to where the baby ends and where the bathwater begins, and sorting through this large inventory takes a lot of brains, a lot of energy, and a lot of time.*/*/*/*/*/*/*
So here we are, with a bunch or intellectuals using keyboards to pursue causes of abuse and solutions to a vast array of complicated pigeonholes that are topics and threads here.
I think that separating truth from error is a worthwhile keyboard pursuit to some degree, so that is why I contribute here, in the keyboard sense.
When I am in private texting things change.
When I am face-to-face things change.
But here in keyboardland it is pretty much an intellectual pursuit for all of us.
And I have skin in the game that I prefer to not pass thru my keyboard about,,, for my privacy and for the privacy of others. I have confided some of these things to as people in private, to the extent I think they could help me, or to the extent I thought that I can help them.
I have skin in theTWI game in the sense that I took it seriously that we grads were family with seed of the same Father, and that we were bonded on a mission from God together. I don’t see myself stopping this taking it serious.
It completely baffles me how so many times I have seen a loving grad family split up for some dumb reason, and they all want to hate each othe,r and deny or forget the strong family ties we had.
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It may have sounded in the past 20 years that I only have a one-size-fits-all way of dealing with the abuses. But I had a lot going on in private those 20 years.
I had local grads of all flavors and victimhood that I was interacting with, and I had about 10 or 12 GreaseSpotters I was dealing with in e-mails and phone calls. I had the Open Mic people and a few other groups I’ve never mentioned here.
The GSC friends I made then were either rare posters here, or never-posters. Some I am still very good friends with.
NONE of the richness of interactions I had over the past 20 years with all these varieties of people, both grads and pagans, ever leaked into my posting here. I was a one-trick-pony by my design.
But, as I have stated several times, I finished that job. I am now allowing more of my positions and opinions of solution(s) be known.
In the first 20 years I almost never distanced myself from anything VPW. I focused almost entirely on the collaterals and other printed works. But in recent months, all that has changed. My one-trick-pony days are over.
I have a special regard for the collaterals, but I have been making it known how strongly I have distanced myself from many things TWIish. Not all, though. It is a large sorting process, and I protest how it is done mass production style here.
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In my humble opinion, GSC posters can help others better if they adopt a more realistic and detailed model of what went wrong. It is not just one big bad guy in this story; that’s simplistic.
This is a VERY complicated problem, and most of the victims know it. You can’t win their trust with a pure evil model of nearly everything VPW said, did, and wrote. The victims are not that stupid, most of them.
There is so much good that came to us all, and the victims know that too. What they don’t know is exactly what was correct that they have in their brain versus what was not correct in their brain. Telling them to dump it all and start over will repel the wise ones, and screw up the less wise ones. That is my opinion.
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If it is thought that I contaminate GSC with my intellectualism, look at T-Bone, and Rocky, and Word Wolf, all operating as college professors here with their intellectual posting.
I am not complaining about this. Sometimes I like their links and summaries.
It’s just that I think that it might be worth considering that my intellectual pursuits here are worth considering in the mix, as you all pursue solutions and closure.
Anyway, I just wanted most to let you know I feel for the victims. I feel like we’re in a war with real casualties, and most tragically, some of them are collateral damage.
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LoL This fits in with my theory of comedy, that it is so entropy driven. I’m glad I resisted the impulse to edit it, and preserved it for your folks to have a laugh over.
I had no idea that pun in the last sentence was going to come out, until the period at the end of the sentence was typed.
I want to thank you again for making this post pleasant.
Have a great day.
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Mike
I did. What about it?
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Mike
No, not any folders on this topic.
A lot of this is from scriptures in my head and seeing how things fit. My AC was in 1975, and I credit that as my start. I've paid close attention to some of these issues, seeing how the fit with scripture. But I've not approached this from a perspective of DERIVING it all from scripture. Once shown these things in the AC, a lot of it becomes self-evident.
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Mike
You said it better than me. I agree.
Milquetoasts, no. Just the opposite towards men: fearless, almost like a man who has nothing to lose.
I was talking about meek towards God only, like Moses.
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Nathan_Jr
^^This can’t be repeated enough.
It’s true, even if you don’t beleeeve it. Hey! I didn’t write the book.
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Mike
I have a folder concurring with much of this that I have prepared for TWI-4 people. Some of them I have already talked to in person or in texting about the Revered Title versus gift ministries. I have been received well. Maybe I should post on that folder sometime. The following discussion would probably beef it up some.
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Mike
I disagree. There is a training period and an application period. You are emphasizing the training period gone bad. It wasn't always that bad, at least, in areas outside the Corps.
Did you see my post yesterday of the 78 or 8 passages from the Gospels? They were all on the topic of the appropriate "blame" Jesus handed out in the Gospels to STUDENTS who he was teaching to believe better.
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Nathan_Jr
I have the complete transcripts of AC72 and AC79. Both taught directly by Vic. They include Q&A sessions at the end where vic “answers” questions. The questioners are named.
The transcripts are fascinating and astonishing primary sources of historical evidence. No matter how hard one tries, they can’t be whitewashed. They can’t be misinterpreted. They can’t be misunderstood.
I could send them to you, if you want.
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