The way I see it is Genesis is a story (myth) of creation of humanity. Is it literally true? I doubt it.
Is it true in the way (creation) myths of other cultures are true, which is in providing humans in such cultures to understand the foundational concepts at issue at the time? I think so.
I am not a-theistic. I'm not challenging the existence of God. Does Genesis or any other book use the word "husband?"
How does one become a husband? This is a question of cultural anthropology.
Anthropology. Ok. Well there were no anthros before that so no need for an apology. Lol.
I can’t speak to the myth versus literalist interpretation of Genesis. I’m inclined to think since LCM and Michaelangelo both could come up with interesting pictures and interpretations it probably is figurative or a myth origin story.
The husband / anthropology question is interesting as marriage has differing customs attached in different societies. In the first society I guess that is a vacuum with no previous custom or culture.
Another view would be to look at marriage like the Blue Lagoon movie where two kids on an island tried to survive.
There in Genesis like the other end of the Bible there is a fair amount of figurative language as well as men living well past any age people live today.
Im kind of inclined to think it was like Blue Lagoon except with office hours with God.
And no child exploitation like Brooke states now.
Indeed, I just looked it up and in reference to the first two humans in Genesis, it does refer to Adam as Eve's husband.
It still strikes me as peculiar to do so when there was nobody around to officiate a wedding ceremony.
Some theoretical PFALists suggest Adam and Eve were on a tight budget:
Eve couldn’t afford a wedding gown.
Adam couldn’t afford a tux.
They saved money by nixing the church for a Garden Wedding.
Adam, being a do-it-yourselfer, officiated the ceremony himself.
Eve so wanted a traditional wedding, so they settled on having the bride’s father walk her down the aisle.
They cheaped out on wedding reception centerpieces, by hiring a British produce vendor named Sir Pent to provide half-priced fruit bowls.
They nixed the fancy double doors for one emergency exit-only door and as fate would have it, they accidentally got locked out of their own Garden Wedding Reception.
T-Bone, that is a hard act to follow! So while Rocky was looking things up and answering his own question (good job ) and T-Bone was composing his very witty reply to Rocky's question (good job too ), I was busy comparing Gen 2 and Eph 5 (with a little help from John 12) because they each had the same verse which I found very interesting
- And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
- John 12:23,24 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified
- Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone:…
(the corn of wheat = Jesus)
- And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept:
- and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
but if it die,…
- And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
(woman + man = fruit/children)
- it brings forth much fruit.
- And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because shewas taken out of Man.
(Adam calls Eve of his bones and of his flesh)
- So ought men to love their wivesas their own bodies. He that loves his wifeloves himself.
- For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it,
(Men are to love their wives as their own bodies from which Eve/women came)
- even as the Lord (nourishes and cherishes) the church: For we are members of his (Jesus Christ's) body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
(We, the church, are the firstfruits of Jesus' death mentioned in John 12:24 above. We are also of Jesus' body, flesh and bones as Eve was of Adam's)
- therefore shall a man leave his father & his mother and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
- for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife and they two shall be one flesh
In case anyone is by the chart, it all boils down to how Genesis and Ephesians are aligned with each other (with John's help of course). The first Adam plus Eve in Genesis are connected not only to the husbands and wives in Ephesians but also to the second Adam and his church. If you already knew all this then I hope you enjoyed how colorful and organized everything was !
There ya go. Instead of one original, oldest manuscript we have thousands of manuscripts, which is better as noted in the quote you left T-Bone. God is perfectly able, capable, and has preserved his pure Word of God for those who want it.
When you think of it, after all God did to inspire people to write His Word so that we could know Him and his Son, it's not possible that He would not have protected them throughout the millenniums and continue to protect them. A good friend sent me some videos about this topic which I'd like to go back and finish watching.
After going back to the "keys" and "principles," after standing on victor's shoulders, after imitating how (H-O-W) victor "worked the word," I finally got it! (I didn't absorb it the first time, admittedly.) This required 18 hour work days, but the work was worthy of the hire.
Anyone can do it. It's what's available. You've got to know how (H-O-W) to get it. The secret is in the tools ("keys"). The tools are what everybody misses the first time.
This is what you will need: 1 Sharpie, 1 multipack of correcting tape or Whiteout, 1 roll of duct tape, 1 Sawzall, and one pair of safety glasses with eisegetical lenses.
Now, you take these tools ("keys") and go to work on your Bible, preferably the KJV. Work TF out of it. The Sawzall will make a mess of your Bible, but, hey, that's what the eisegetical glasses are for. That's how (H-O-W) victor did it. Remember, stand on his shoulders and imitate him.
When you're done completely completing working the word while on victor's shoulders, you will see the tremendous accuracy of "God's budget." (Use the duct tape to attach the budget to the double doors.)
Fruit of the labor: The six THE men of God who came before victor spent all of the miracle/sign/wonder budget. There was nothing left for the seventh THE man of God. That's why signs, miracles and wonders never followed victor. That's why he couldn't manifest.
See? Isn't that just wonderful! That there is pure mathematical exactness! That there is scientific precision!
In case anyone is by the chart, it all boils down to how Genesis and Ephesians are aligned with each other (with John's help of course). The first Adam plus Eve in Genesis are connected not only to the husbands and wives in Ephesians but also to the second Adam and his church. If you already knew all this then I hope you enjoyed how colorful and organized everything was !
According to this creation myth (story), God made Eve to be Adam's help mate. Husband/wife snuck into the text later.
14 hours ago, T-Bone said:
Some theoretical PFALists suggest Adam and Eve were on a tight budget:
When you think of it, after all God did to inspire people to write His Word so that we could know Him and his Son, it's not possible that He would not have protected them throughout the millenniums and continue to protect them. A good friend sent me some videos about this topic which I'd like to go back and finish watching.
This is well stated, Charity, and it is a point I made a bunch of times in the NT Canon thread.
An interesting fine detail in this is how the adversary attempts to destroy God's written Word, and has some partial successes. But in the long run, God wins. Sometimes that long run is real long, and sometimes not.
All this is illustrated in Jeremiah 36, where the time between the devil destroying the written Word and God restoring it was a mere few days. It can be longer.
Romans 10:9,10 was buried in the "debris of the temple" until Martin Luther discovered it around 15 hundred years later.
This is well stated, Charity, and it is a point I made a bunch of times in the NT Canon thread.
An interesting fine detail in this is how the adversary attempts to destroy God's written Word, and has some partial successes. But in the long run, God wins. Sometimes that long run is real long, and sometimes not.
All this is illustrated in Jeremiah 36, where the time between the devil destroying the written Word and God restoring it was a mere few days. It can be longer.
Romans 10:9,10 was buried in the "debris of the temple" until Martin Luther discovered it around 15 hundred years later.
An interesting detail is how some people put snowstorms on gas pumps as related second hand by a hippie conquest chick and banished from the bookstore on the same equality as God’s written Word.
Then as a corollary they deify all the guys sermons and written notes publishing them into bound book volumes edited by his secretary.
And on top of that they continue to re study a class stolen before they were born.
If that in itself isn’t enough they literally make bronze images of the guy and place them in teaching centers and as a gift to all the unquestioning bondslaves they ordain!
And they refuse to look honestly at these things or discuss them!
These followers are so deluded there is literally nothing God can do to get through the 9 miles of cemented ear wax for them to listen.
There ya go. Instead of one original, oldest manuscript we have thousands of manuscripts, which is better as noted in the quote you left T-Bone. Yet, wierwille has convinced people like Mike (and formerly myself) that the only reliable intrepretation is what wierwille says it is. God is perfectly able, capable, and has preserved his pure Word of God for those who want it. Wierwillism overthrows a person's faith in God's ability to effectually communicate himself, leaving them instead with all kinds of doubt as evidenced by mike's post.
7 hours ago, Charity said:
When you think of it, after all God did to inspire people to write His Word so that we could know Him and his Son, it's not possible that He would not have protected them throughout the millenniums and continue to protect them. A good friend sent me some videos about this topic which I'd like to go back and finish watching.
3 hours ago, Mike said:
This is well stated, Charity, and it is a point I made a bunch of times in the NT Canon thread.
1.I think Mike is mistaken. OldSkool and Charity are talking about how the actual written text was preserved. On the NT Canon thread Mike had a difference of opinion on how the NT Scriptures were canonized. Two different topics – Grease Spotters can go to New Testament Canon (greasespotcafe.com)to see the difference. No need to go into the details here – except to say Mike belittled the scholarly process (here’s one explanation = New Testament canon ), Mike referred to that as a ‘top-down approach’ ; Mike dubbed his own questionable method a ‘bottoms up approach’, but his overly simplistic technique merely amounted to Mike’s inane attempt at literary structure and an unhealthy paranoia of the devil…some Mike misfires on NT canon thread:here, here , and here .
3 hours ago, Mike said:
An interesting fine detail in this is how the adversary attempts to destroy God's written Word, and has some partial successes. But in the long run, God wins. Sometimes that long run is real long, and sometimes not.
All this is illustrated in Jeremiah 36, where the time between the devil destroying the written Word and God restoring it was a mere few days. It can be longer.
Romans 10:9,10 was buried in the "debris of the temple" until Martin Luther discovered it around 15 hundred years later.
2.If Mike’s statement hits you as coming from out in left field, that’s because it is!
Charity, OldSkool and the NT Canon thread touch on the necessity and benefits of textual research – to preserve the written Word of God. It does not address the formulation of doctrine – that’s reserved for other scholarly disciplines like systematic theology and biblical theology.
Mike has attempted to compare apples to unicorns.
Mike refers toJeremiah 36 NIV which is a thrilling record of God “re-issuing” certain Scripture that was destroyed besides adding to it…but then he makes a PFALudicrous Type of Leap in Logic to make an incoherent comparison of preserving the Written Word of God with formulating doctrine, i.e., Martin Luther’s teaching of salvation as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Jesus Christ.
The analogy falls flat for several reasons. Jeremiah 36 states it was Jehoiakim who burned Jeremiah’s scroll. Mike’s remarks seem to be infused with wierwille’s Advanced Class demonology (I tend to think the only reason wierwille knew anything about the devil was because he lived like one). Mike in his usually biased commentary seems always overly zealous to give the devil far more credit than he deserves while at the same time marginalizing God Almighty. There is nothing comparable to God ‘reissuing’ Scripture – in effect preserving it in Jeremiah 36and Martin Luther challenging the authority and office of the pope…
...Knowing wierwille and Mike’s animosity toward the Roman Catholic church I can’t help but think this is another one of Mike’s not-so-subtle allusion to the ‘greatness’ of wierwille’s ministry – the consummate hypocrite who bragged about cheap grace of Romans 10: 9 & 10 and the freedom we have in Christ but secretly he was a law unto himself totally independent of the Lord Jesus Christ – he was an unabashed plagiarist, pathological liar, money grubbing thief, megalomaniac, delusional, malignant narcissist, drunkard and a sexual predator…
...and mind you we're not talking about one-time sins – wierwille was a repeat offender having several sinful ‘careers’ - - sorry to inform big wierwille fans but he proved by the way he lived, he was unrepentant and maybe you’ll make the correlation with the rest of Matthew 3:8: Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God… Matthew 3:8 NLT
God uses angels to do a lot of things. There is an interesting account in the OT about this in the Book of Daniel, where Daniel was praying for some help with something, and nothing happens for a long time, like weeks. Suddenly one day an angel shows up, and says something like “I’m here to help. Sorry I’m so late. I was detained for weeks struggling with some ‘big guy’ out there.”
That was my Super Abbreviated Version; below is the NIV
Daniel Chapter 10
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war. The understanding of the message came to him in a vision...
1In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war. a The understanding of the message came to him in a vision.
2At that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. 3I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.
4On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, 5I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
7I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. 9Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.
10A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11He said, “Daniel, you who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words I am about to speak to you, and stand up, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling.
12Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”
15While he was saying this to me, I bowed with my face toward the ground and was speechless. 16Then one who looked like a man b touched my lips, and I opened my mouth and began to speak. I said to the one standing before me, “I am overcome with anguish because of the vision, my lord, and I feel very weak. 17How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe.”
18Again the one who looked like a man touched me and gave me strength. 19“Do not be afraid, you who are highly esteemed,” he said. “Peace! Be strong now; be strong.”
When he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Speak, my lord, since you have given me strength.”
20So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”…Zechariah 3:2
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”… Jude 1:9
~ ~ ~ ~
Why does Mike have such a degrading view of God Almighty and His angels?
Mike’s “super abbreviated version” of Daniel 10 reveals such a lowly opinion he has of God and His Angels.
In Zechariah 3:2 the Angel of the Lord is recognized as the Lord Himself, authenticating this “messenger” as deity. In other Scriptures the Angel of the Lord is frequently identified with the pre-incarnate Lord Himself: for example Zechariah 1:11 , Genesis 16:11 , compare Exodus 3:1-14 withActs 7: 30 - 34 . And in Jude 1:9 we read of Michael - rather than cursing Satan, deferring to the ultimate sovereign power of God – possibly an allusion to the Angel of the Lord in Zechariah 3:2.
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chockfull
I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
chockfull
The Corps is a necessary cult element providing free labor at the expense of volunteers lives. Any imagery like the Marines promotes extremist behavior. No other Christian seminary or school use
Nathan_Jr
"Teaching" Romans to the Corps, Q&A: LCM: How much does your behavior that people do not see influence your example to them? VPW: It doesn't, unless you believe it will. LCM: You u
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chockfull
Anthropology. Ok. Well there were no anthros before that so no need for an apology. Lol.
I can’t speak to the myth versus literalist interpretation of Genesis. I’m inclined to think since LCM and Michaelangelo both could come up with interesting pictures and interpretations it probably is figurative or a myth origin story.
The husband / anthropology question is interesting as marriage has differing customs attached in different societies. In the first society I guess that is a vacuum with no previous custom or culture.
Another view would be to look at marriage like the Blue Lagoon movie where two kids on an island tried to survive.
There in Genesis like the other end of the Bible there is a fair amount of figurative language as well as men living well past any age people live today.
Im kind of inclined to think it was like Blue Lagoon except with office hours with God.
And no child exploitation like Brooke states now.
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OldSkool
I don't. And it's fine if we see things differently.
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So_crates
My understanding is that marriage is not as much spiritual as it is social, its major purpose being to keep property in families.
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Rocky
Have you SEEN the word "husband" in the bible?
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Charity
I'd have to say yes to that - haven't you?
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Rocky
I suppose I have. My mistake for not qualifying my question as related to Eve and Adam.
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Rocky
Indeed, I just looked it up and in reference to the first two humans in Genesis, it does refer to Adam as Eve's husband.
It still strikes me as peculiar to do so when there was nobody around to officiate a wedding ceremony.
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T-Bone
Some theoretical PFALists suggest Adam and Eve were on a tight budget:
Eve couldn’t afford a wedding gown.
Adam couldn’t afford a tux.
They saved money by nixing the church for a Garden Wedding.
Adam, being a do-it-yourselfer, officiated the ceremony himself.
Eve so wanted a traditional wedding, so they settled on having the bride’s father walk her down the aisle.
They cheaped out on wedding reception centerpieces, by hiring a British produce vendor named Sir Pent to provide half-priced fruit bowls.
They nixed the fancy double doors for one emergency exit-only door and as fate would have it, they accidentally got locked out of their own Garden Wedding Reception.
Edited by T-BoneThey might have eloped
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Charity
T-Bone, that is a hard act to follow! So while Rocky was looking things up and answering his own question (good job
) and T-Bone was composing his very witty reply to Rocky's question (good job too 
), I was busy comparing Gen 2 and Eph 5 (with a little help from John 12) because they each had the same verse which I found very interesting 
How so, you must be wondering
. This is how so 
.
Genesis 2:18,21-24
John 12:24
Ephesians 5:28-31
The first Adam
Jesus Christ the second Adam
- And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
- John 12:23,24 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified
- Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone:…
(the corn of wheat = Jesus)
- And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept:
- and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
but if it die,…
- And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
(woman + man = fruit/children)
- it brings forth much fruit.
- And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
(Adam calls Eve of his bones and of his flesh)
- So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself.
- For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it,
(Men are to love their wives as their own bodies from which Eve/women came)
- even as the Lord (nourishes and cherishes) the church: For we are members of his (Jesus Christ's) body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
(We, the church, are the firstfruits of Jesus' death mentioned in John 12:24 above. We are also of Jesus' body, flesh and bones as Eve was of Adam's)
- therefore shall a man leave his father & his mother and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
- for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife and they two shall be one flesh
In case anyone is
by the chart, it all boils down to how Genesis and Ephesians are aligned with each other (with John's help of course). The first Adam plus Eve in Genesis are connected not only to the husbands and wives in Ephesians but also to the second Adam and his church. If you already knew all this then I hope you enjoyed how colorful and organized everything was 
!
Edited by CharityLink to comment
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chockfull
Yes. So the garden of Eden was Eve’’s dowry from her Father towards the marriage.
But they got tricked by the snake in the grass and lost their dowry.
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Charity
When you think of it, after all God did to inspire people to write His Word so that we could know Him and his Son, it's not possible that He would not have protected them throughout the millenniums and continue to protect them. A good friend sent me some videos about this topic which I'd like to go back and finish watching.
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Nathan_Jr
Boom! Great news!
I MADE IT FIT!
After going back to the "keys" and "principles," after standing on victor's shoulders, after imitating how (H-O-W) victor "worked the word," I finally got it! (I didn't absorb it the first time, admittedly.) This required 18 hour work days, but the work was worthy of the hire.
Anyone can do it. It's what's available. You've got to know how (H-O-W) to get it. The secret is in the tools ("keys"). The tools are what everybody misses the first time.
This is what you will need: 1 Sharpie, 1 multipack of correcting tape or Whiteout, 1 roll of duct tape, 1 Sawzall, and one pair of safety glasses with eisegetical lenses.
Now, you take these tools ("keys") and go to work on your Bible, preferably the KJV. Work TF out of it. The Sawzall will make a mess of your Bible, but, hey, that's what the eisegetical glasses are for. That's how (H-O-W) victor did it. Remember, stand on his shoulders and imitate him.
When you're done completely completing working the word while on victor's shoulders, you will see the tremendous accuracy of "God's budget." (Use the duct tape to attach the budget to the double doors.)
Fruit of the labor: The six THE men of God who came before victor spent all of the miracle/sign/wonder budget. There was nothing left for the seventh THE man of God. That's why signs, miracles and wonders never followed victor. That's why he couldn't manifest.
See? Isn't that just wonderful! That there is pure mathematical exactness! That there is scientific precision!
Boy, oh, boy....
Mmmmmph!
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
According to this creation myth (story), God made Eve to be Adam's help mate. Husband/wife snuck into the text later.
Very clever!
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Mike
This is well stated, Charity, and it is a point I made a bunch of times in the NT Canon thread.
An interesting fine detail in this is how the adversary attempts to destroy God's written Word, and has some partial successes. But in the long run, God wins. Sometimes that long run is real long, and sometimes not.
All this is illustrated in Jeremiah 36, where the time between the devil destroying the written Word and God restoring it was a mere few days. It can be longer.
Romans 10:9,10 was buried in the "debris of the temple" until Martin Luther discovered it around 15 hundred years later.
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OldSkool
No it wasnt. Its been part of Romans since it was written by Paul.
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chockfull
An interesting detail is how some people put snowstorms on gas pumps as related second hand by a hippie conquest chick and banished from the bookstore on the same equality as God’s written Word.
Then as a corollary they deify all the guys sermons and written notes publishing them into bound book volumes edited by his secretary.
And on top of that they continue to re study a class stolen before they were born.
If that in itself isn’t enough they literally make bronze images of the guy and place them in teaching centers and as a gift to all the unquestioning bondslaves they ordain!
And they refuse to look honestly at these things or discuss them!
These followers are so deluded there is literally nothing God can do to get through the 9 miles of cemented ear wax for them to listen.
Unbelievable? Sure is.
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So_crates
Isn't it amusing that Saint Vic used the budget excuse for lack of miracles, yet he wouldn't accept the budget excuse from believers for lack of ABS.
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T-Bone
1.I think Mike is mistaken. OldSkool and Charity are talking about how the actual written text was preserved. On the NT Canon thread Mike had a difference of opinion on how the NT Scriptures were canonized. Two different topics – Grease Spotters can go to New Testament Canon (greasespotcafe.com) to see the difference. No need to go into the details here – except to say Mike belittled the scholarly process (here’s one explanation = New Testament canon ), Mike referred to that as a ‘top-down approach’ ; Mike dubbed his own questionable method a ‘bottoms up approach’, but his overly simplistic technique merely amounted to Mike’s inane attempt at literary structure and an unhealthy paranoia of the devil…some Mike misfires on NT canon thread: here , here , and here .
2.If Mike’s statement hits you as coming from out in left field, that’s because it is!
Charity, OldSkool and the NT Canon thread touch on the necessity and benefits of textual research – to preserve the written Word of God. It does not address the formulation of doctrine – that’s reserved for other scholarly disciplines like systematic theology and biblical theology.
Mike has attempted to compare apples to unicorns.
Mike refers to Jeremiah 36 NIV which is a thrilling record of God “re-issuing” certain Scripture that was destroyed besides adding to it…but then he makes a PFALudicrous Type of Leap in Logic to make an incoherent comparison of preserving the Written Word of God with formulating doctrine, i.e., Martin Luther’s teaching of salvation as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Jesus Christ.
The analogy falls flat for several reasons. Jeremiah 36 states it was Jehoiakim who burned Jeremiah’s scroll. Mike’s remarks seem to be infused with wierwille’s Advanced Class demonology (I tend to think the only reason wierwille knew anything about the devil was because he lived like one). Mike in his usually biased commentary seems always overly zealous to give the devil far more credit than he deserves while at the same time marginalizing God Almighty. There is nothing comparable to God ‘reissuing’ Scripture – in effect preserving it in Jeremiah 36 and Martin Luther challenging the authority and office of the pope…
...Knowing wierwille and Mike’s animosity toward the Roman Catholic church I can’t help but think this is another one of Mike’s not-so-subtle allusion to the ‘greatness’ of wierwille’s ministry – the consummate hypocrite who bragged about cheap grace of Romans 10: 9 & 10 and the freedom we have in Christ but secretly he was a law unto himself totally independent of the Lord Jesus Christ – he was an unabashed plagiarist, pathological liar, money grubbing thief, megalomaniac, delusional, malignant narcissist, drunkard and a sexual predator…
...and mind you we're not talking about one-time sins – wierwille was a repeat offender having several sinful ‘careers’ - - sorry to inform big wierwille fans but he proved by the way he lived, he was unrepentant and maybe you’ll make the correlation with the rest of Matthew 3:8: Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God… Matthew 3:8 NLT
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Nathan_Jr
The spirit of the canon is the light of the bookcase in concretion.
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OldSkool
MogaShontu!
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Nathan_Jr
Coordinatore musicale
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waysider
For yea verily. The concrete bookcase is as light as a cannon. Thus saith the spirits.
(Are they friendly spirits?)
Edited by waysiderspelling
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So_crates
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T-Bone
1In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war. a The understanding of the message came to him in a vision.
2At that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. 3I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.
4On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, 5I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
7I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. 9Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.
10A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11He said, “Daniel, you who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words I am about to speak to you, and stand up, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling.
12Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”
15While he was saying this to me, I bowed with my face toward the ground and was speechless. 16Then one who looked like a man b touched my lips, and I opened my mouth and began to speak. I said to the one standing before me, “I am overcome with anguish because of the vision, my lord, and I feel very weak. 17How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe.”
18Again the one who looked like a man touched me and gave me strength. 19“Do not be afraid, you who are highly esteemed,” he said. “Peace! Be strong now; be strong.”
When he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Speak, my lord, since you have given me strength.”
20So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
Daniel 10 NIV
The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”… Zechariah 3:2
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”… Jude 1:9
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Why does Mike have such a degrading view of God Almighty and His angels?
Mike’s “super abbreviated version” of Daniel 10 reveals such a lowly opinion he has of God and His Angels.
In Zechariah 3:2 the Angel of the Lord is recognized as the Lord Himself, authenticating this “messenger” as deity. In other Scriptures the Angel of the Lord is frequently identified with the pre-incarnate Lord Himself: for example Zechariah 1:11 , Genesis 16:11 , compare Exodus 3:1-14 with Acts 7: 30 - 34 . And in Jude 1:9 we read of Michael - rather than cursing Satan, deferring to the ultimate sovereign power of God – possibly an allusion to the Angel of the Lord in Zechariah 3:2.
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