You certainly can have an opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's. Nevertheless, should your opinion put him in a box he might never decide to climb out of?
Wait...if debating with Mike on the forums is wrong because he hasnt changed in 20+ years of posting here and it clogs up the forums and all...then how in the heck is acknowlidging that he will never change inappropriate. Wait...lemme clear it up...Mike will LIKELY never get it...better?
Continuing to look at the idea and not the invalid criticisms, I ask you this:
WHY would God put the idea of limited measure in where spiritual commodities are being talked about?
Continuing to look at the idea and the ignored valid criticisms, you presupposing God's intet based on an excuse Saint Vic gave you for his own impotence.
Notice God didn't mention the limited measure, man did. Most of the quotes you presented were people dealing with doubt.
33 minutes ago, Mike said:
We have no way of performing such measurements, nor understand what they mean.... YET God outs that idea of limited measure of spirit in the scriptures.
Again, God didn't present them, people did: praying for a double measure of spirit.
And grace being sufficient? Just how does that suggest a budget?
33 minutes ago, Mike said:
I am trying to understand what He is telling us here.
No, you're not. You're trying to shoehorn a theory into a bunch of text where no such theory exists.
Nice try, but you are a rank amateur at conjuring up fear and condemnation.
Here's a hint: even if you get skilled at this, it only works on those who have not made the Word the guiding light of their life.
I wrote: "Do you even care what God your heavenly Father and Jesus your Savior and Redeemer must think and feel about what you wrote?"
I'm sorry if that's what you and maybe others thought I was trying to do based on my first sentence and my use of the word "degrade." However, when I asked you that question I was thinking more of the hurt they must have felt. I apologize for not making that point clear.
As someone who has made the Word the guiding light of your life, it would be inspiring to hear how you feel about:
"the most stressful time in Jesus' life according to Luke 22:44 ("And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.") - a time when he puts aside his own will to not be tortured and crucified in the horrific way the OT prophesied it would happen and instead finds the strength in his relationship with His Father to carry out God's will for you (John 3:16,17)"
Come now...there's spiritual coffee..usually stretched...spiritual money goes into the horn o plenty, there's spiritual orange juice, spiritual oil, spiritual partners...you know.....spiritual commodities...where's your beeeleving....Mogadishu lo shontabananarama.
Come now...there's spiritual coffee..usually stretched...spiritual money goes into the horn o plenty, there's spiritual orange juice, spiritual oil, spiritual partners...you know.....spiritual commodities...where's your beeeleving....Mogadishu lo shontabananarama.
Oh. Like spiritual suspicion, spiritual anger and spiritual scat play?
On what stock exchange are spiritual commodities listed?
12 minutes ago, OldSkool said:
New Jerusalem Mercantile Exchange.
A limited volume of shares are also traded on the New Knoxville Stock Exchange (NKSE).
Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, Henry Boloko, and Snowball Pete are licensed traders. They can help you plan for your spiritual future.
To clear the confusion, I'm telling you this today. I'm not telling you this yesterday, I'm not telling you this tomorrow. I realize this isn't obvious. That's why today I'm telling you that I'm telling you today.
It is MYTH, not fact. Mike is exercising his imagination. I don't criticize him doing so. But it's important for readers to put it in a reasonable perspective.
You can call it a myth or exercising his imagination, but he sees it quite differently.
9 hours ago, Rocky said:
I'm not sure you can factually perceive any reason Mike "will never get it."
Yes, Mike is dealing in myth. But it appears to me Mike expands wierwille's mythology by extrapolating verses he's now focused on with his (Mike's) imaginative interpretation of something he has no way of knowing except by way of his own imagination.
Again, you see it Rocky that Mike is dealing in myth using imaginative interpretation, but he sees it differently.
9 hours ago, Mike said:
Nice try, but you are a rank amateur at conjuring up fear and condemnation.
Here's a hint: even if you get skilled at this, it only works on those who have not made the Word the guiding light of their life.
This is how Mike sees himself in all this - as someone who has made the Word the guiding light of his life.
8 hours ago, Rocky said:
You certainly can have an opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's. Nevertheless, should your opinion put him in a box he might never decide to climb out of?
Are you saying he might never decide to climb out of a box that someone's opinion of him put him in? In my opinion, the only box Mike is in and the only box he cares about is the one he firmly put himself in by saying a number of times that he is not going to change his mind about the collaterals. I know it is never too late for someone to change and I would love it if he surprises everyone at some point and climbs out of his box. Time will tell and God only knows for sure.
Continuing to look at the idea and not the invalid criticisms, I ask you this:
WHY would God put the idea of limited measure in where spiritual commodities are being talked about?
We have no way of performing such measurements, nor understand what they mean.... YET God outs that idea of limited measure of spirit in the scriptures.
I am trying to understand what He is telling us here.
I’m continuing to ignore Mike’s disregard for valid criticism – so any folks at home wanting to play along in the 20,000-Hours Worth of a Pyramid Scheme Called PFAL, please reviewmy post…and while you're here enjoy a tune that is sure to uplift your wallets, bless ye of little cognitive skills, The Class is gonna scam ya
God did NOT“put the idea of limited measure in where spiritual commodities are being talked about” – MIKEdid!
And MIKE ALSOmade up HIS OWNmodern terms “spiritual commodities” in case you missed that misdirection.
Well if you folks were paying more attention to the idea, and less attention to finding rhetorical ways to shame me out of the idea, maybe you’d have come across this spiritual commodity in your scripture memory. This following scripture has an attention getting passage involving the flow of “virtue” or “good stuff.”
Mark 5:25
And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, “If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.” And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, “Who touched my clothes?” And his disciples said unto him,” Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?” And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
If you like the law of believing, Jesus does a niftly little teaching on it in the next verses. But, with these verses I get a picture of a “virtue” budget. I have no idea what the virtue is or means, but I do get an idea of a finite amount to begin with, a finite flow out of Jesus, and Jesus getting a sense of the change.These are all the kinds of things that happen around the maintaining of a finite virtue budget, by a guy who has infinite spirit.
WHY, WHY, WHY would God want to tell us about this virtue drainage while Jesus was on the way to raise a little girl from the dead?
Jesus’ virtue tank got sudden dip and he felt it, because God told him (I guess). Why would God tell him?Well if you are going to do a big job, you might want to save some gas in your tank for that job?
These verses are screaming the idea at me that there was a budget on virtue that day and Jesus needed to be sharp about it.
Come now...there's spiritual coffee..usually stretched...spiritual money goes into the horn o plenty, there's spiritual orange juice, spiritual oil, spiritual partners...you know.....spiritual commodities...where's your beeeleving....Mogadishu lo shontabananarama.
2 hours ago, So_crates said:
On what stock exchange are spiritual commodities listed?
2 hours ago, OldSkool said:
New Jerusalem Mercantile Exchange.
2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
A limited volume of shares are also traded on the New Knoxville Stock Exchange (NKSE).
Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, Henry Boloko, and Snowball Pete are licensed traders. They can help you plan for your spiritual future.
To clear the confusion, I'm telling you this today. I'm not telling you this yesterday, I'm not telling you this tomorrow. I realize this isn't obvious. That's why today I'm telling you that I'm telling you today.
Math! So accurate!
Geez, have you heard about the leak of classified files recently? Yeah, you know the ones, where the leaker even altered some of them to spread disinformation.
Here below is one altered file from TWI’s spiritual commodities graph of a typical followers 3-year involvement – note it shows an average of 89% loss in money, resources, quality of life, career opportunities, and harmony in the home.
Apparently – in an effort to misdirect attention away from TWI’s exploitative schemes, the leaker deliberately mislabeled the file to look like a graph from the great depression:
I should have included more of the Mark 5 pre-context for the virtue drain verses.
Jesus was on the way to heal a sick girl. The virtue drain occurs while on the way. Then news arrives that the little girl had died. Big job ahead for Jesus and virtue.
I should have included more of the context for the virtue drain verses.
Jesus was on the way to heal a sick girl. The virtue drain occurs while on the way. Then news arrives that the little girl had died. Big job ahead for Jesus and virtue.
WHY, WHY, WHY would God want to tell us about this virtue drainage while Jesus was on the way to raise a little girl from the dead?
Jesus’ virtue tank got sudden dip and he felt it, because God told him (I guess). Why would God tell him?Well if you are going to do a big job, you might want to save some gas in your tank for that job?
If you weren't so enamored with Saint Vic's excuse for his own impotence,you might have seen the obvious.
Why would God tell us about the ioss of virtue? So Jesus Christ would be aware of the woman and could go into his speech on pistis.
In all these 40 pages, did anyone ever once flash on these verses from Mark 5 and Jesus noticing that "virtue," a real spiritual commodity, had flowed out of him.
Has anyone ever wondered what these verses were talking about?
Why mention this part of the story, when we might think that the woman's healing was the big deal. Why did God put this "virtue" flow idea in there? What can we learn from this?
In all these 40 pages, did anyone ever once flash on these verses from Mark 5 and Jesus noticing that "virtue," a real spiritual commodity, had flowed out of him.
Has anyone ever wondered what these verses were talking about?
Why mention this part of the story, when we might think that the woman's healing was the big deal. Why did God put this "virtue" flow idea in there? What can we learn from this
If you don't know what virtue is, how do you know why God put it in there?
If you don't know what virtue is, how do you know it's a spiritual commodity?
In all these 40 pages, did anyone ever once flash on these verses from Mark 5 and Jesus noticing that "virtue," a real spiritual commodity, had flowed out of him.
apparently you did
9 minutes ago, Mike said:
Has anyone ever wondered what these verses were talking about?
you have been doing that a lot lately
9 minutes ago, Mike said:
Why mention this part of the story, when we might think that the woman's healing was the big deal.
spider's-web-of-deceit sense is tingling
9 minutes ago, Mike said:
Why did God put this "virtue" flow idea in there? What can we learn from this?
All these decades spent mastering a charlatan’s collaterals, yet not one ounce of effort to learn Greek!
”Virtue” is a peculiar choice by the KJV committee. (It’s not their only weird translation choice.)
Literally, every other Bible version is more accurate than the KJV on this verse. Find out for yourself. Learn how to research. Learn how to learn.
And the “virtue” didn’t go out of him like gas goes out of a car. He didn’t become depleted of a limited commodity in that moment. He felt it go out from him, he felt the movement and transfer of power, not the depletion of power.
Are you saying he might never decide to climb out of a box that someone's opinion of him put him in? In my opinion, the only box Mike is in and the box he only cares about is the one he firmly put himself in by saying a number of times that he is not going to change his mind about the collaterals. I know it is never too late for someone to change and I would love it if he surprises everyone at some point and climbs out of his box. Time will tell and God only knows for sure.
Parsing some semantics, I suppose. Indeed, only God knows, if anyone, at this point. However, the point I was making has to do with Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. After all, our species is fundamentally social. But most certainly wouldn't argue that he put himself in the box. And whether he ever climbs out is quite definitely up to him.
However, I also seem to recall NT scriptures about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers or sisters.
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I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
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Wait...if debating with Mike on the forums is wrong because he hasnt changed in 20+ years of posting here and it clogs up the forums and all...then how in the heck is acknowlidging that he will never change inappropriate. Wait...lemme clear it up...Mike will LIKELY never get it...better?
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So_crates
Continuing to look at the idea and the ignored valid criticisms, you presupposing God's intet based on an excuse Saint Vic gave you for his own impotence.
Notice God didn't mention the limited measure, man did. Most of the quotes you presented were people dealing with doubt.
Again, God didn't present them, people did: praying for a double measure of spirit.
And grace being sufficient? Just how does that suggest a budget?
No, you're not. You're trying to shoehorn a theory into a bunch of text where no such theory exists.
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Charity
I wrote: "Do you even care what God your heavenly Father and Jesus your Savior and Redeemer must think and feel about what you wrote?"
I'm sorry if that's what you and maybe others thought I was trying to do based on my first sentence and my use of the word "degrade." However, when I asked you that question I was thinking more of the hurt they must have felt. I apologize for not making that point clear.
As someone who has made the Word the guiding light of your life, it would be inspiring to hear how you feel about:
"the most stressful time in Jesus' life according to Luke 22:44 ("And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.") - a time when he puts aside his own will to not be tortured and crucified in the horrific way the OT prophesied it would happen and instead finds the strength in his relationship with His Father to carry out God's will for you (John 3:16,17)"
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Nathan_Jr
"Spiritual commodities."
I rest my case.
Edited by Nathan_JrDid God create man, or did man create God?
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OldSkool
Come now...there's spiritual coffee..usually stretched...spiritual money goes into the horn o plenty, there's spiritual orange juice, spiritual oil, spiritual partners...you know.....spiritual commodities...where's your beeeleving....Mogadishu lo shontabananarama.
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Nathan_Jr
Oh. Like spiritual suspicion, spiritual anger and spiritual scat play?
guanciale pesto carbonara
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OldSkool
Yeah...just like that only completely different....
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So_crates
On what stock exchange are spiritual commodities listed?
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OldSkool
New Jerusalem Mercantile Exchange.
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Nathan_Jr
A limited volume of shares are also traded on the New Knoxville Stock Exchange (NKSE).
Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, Henry Boloko, and Snowball Pete are licensed traders. They can help you plan for your spiritual future.
To clear the confusion, I'm telling you this today. I'm not telling you this yesterday, I'm not telling you this tomorrow. I realize this isn't obvious. That's why today I'm telling you that I'm telling you today.
Math! So accurate!
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Charity
You can call it a myth or exercising his imagination, but he sees it quite differently.
Again, you see it Rocky that Mike is dealing in myth using imaginative interpretation, but he sees it differently.
This is how Mike sees himself in all this - as someone who has made the Word the guiding light of his life.
Are you saying he might never decide to climb out of a box that someone's opinion of him put him in? In my opinion, the only box Mike is in and the only box he cares about is the one he firmly put himself in by saying a number of times that he is not going to change his mind about the collaterals. I know it is never too late for someone to change and I would love it if he surprises everyone at some point and climbs out of his box. Time will tell and God only knows for sure.
Edited by CharityLink to comment
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T-Bone
I’m continuing to ignore Mike’s disregard for valid criticism – so any folks at home wanting to play along in the 20,000-Hours Worth of a Pyramid Scheme Called PFAL, please review my post …and while you're here enjoy a tune that is sure to uplift your wallets, bless ye of little cognitive skills, The Class is gonna scam ya
God did NOT “put the idea of limited measure in where spiritual commodities are being talked about” – MIKE did!
And MIKE ALSO made up HIS OWN modern terms “spiritual commodities” in case you missed that misdirection.
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Mike
Well if you folks were paying more attention to the idea, and less attention to finding rhetorical ways to shame me out of the idea, maybe you’d have come across this spiritual commodity in your scripture memory. This following scripture has an attention getting passage involving the flow of “virtue” or “good stuff.”
Mark 5:25
And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, “If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.” And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, “Who touched my clothes?” And his disciples said unto him,” Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?” And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
If you like the law of believing, Jesus does a niftly little teaching on it in the next verses. But, with these verses I get a picture of a “virtue” budget. I have no idea what the virtue is or means, but I do get an idea of a finite amount to begin with, a finite flow out of Jesus, and Jesus getting a sense of the change. These are all the kinds of things that happen around the maintaining of a finite virtue budget, by a guy who has infinite spirit.
WHY, WHY, WHY would God want to tell us about this virtue drainage while Jesus was on the way to raise a little girl from the dead?
Jesus’ virtue tank got sudden dip and he felt it, because God told him (I guess). Why would God tell him? Well if you are going to do a big job, you might want to save some gas in your tank for that job?
These verses are screaming the idea at me that there was a budget on virtue that day and Jesus needed to be sharp about it.
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T-Bone
Geez, have you heard about the leak of classified files recently? Yeah, you know the ones, where the leaker even altered some of them to spread disinformation.
Here below is one altered file from TWI’s spiritual commodities graph of a typical followers 3-year involvement – note it shows an average of 89% loss in money, resources, quality of life, career opportunities, and harmony in the home.
Apparently – in an effort to misdirect attention away from TWI’s exploitative schemes, the leaker deliberately mislabeled the file to look like a graph from the great depression:
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Mike
I should have included more of the Mark 5 pre-context for the virtue drain verses.
Jesus was on the way to heal a sick girl. The virtue drain occurs while on the way. Then news arrives that the little girl had died. Big job ahead for Jesus and virtue.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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T-Bone
and away goes virtue down the drain
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So_crates
If you weren't so enamored with Saint Vic's excuse for his own impotence,you might have seen the obvious.
Why would God tell us about the ioss of virtue? So Jesus Christ would be aware of the woman and could go into his speech on pistis.
That's so obvious Ray Charles could see it.
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Mike
In all these 40 pages, did anyone ever once flash on these verses from Mark 5 and Jesus noticing that "virtue," a real spiritual commodity, had flowed out of him.
Has anyone ever wondered what these verses were talking about?
Why mention this part of the story, when we might think that the woman's healing was the big deal. Why did God put this "virtue" flow idea in there? What can we learn from this?
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So_crates
If you don't know what virtue is, how do you know why God put it in there?
If you don't know what virtue is, how do you know it's a spiritual commodity?
Why virtue? Why not power?
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T-Bone
apparently you did
you have been doing that a lot lately
spider's-web-of-deceit sense is tingling
who? what? where?
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OldSkool
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Nathan_Jr
All these decades spent mastering a charlatan’s collaterals, yet not one ounce of effort to learn Greek!
”Virtue” is a peculiar choice by the KJV committee. (It’s not their only weird translation choice.)
Literally, every other Bible version is more accurate than the KJV on this verse. Find out for yourself. Learn how to research. Learn how to learn.
And the “virtue” didn’t go out of him like gas goes out of a car. He didn’t become depleted of a limited commodity in that moment. He felt it go out from him, he felt the movement and transfer of power, not the depletion of power.
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cman
Nice Nathan you said that very well
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Rocky
Parsing some semantics, I suppose. Indeed, only God knows, if anyone, at this point. However, the point I was making has to do with Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. After all, our species is fundamentally social. But most certainly wouldn't argue that he put himself in the box. And whether he ever climbs out is quite definitely up to him.
However, I also seem to recall NT scriptures about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers or sisters.
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