The book of Job is like an ancient thesis defending the righteousness of God…He is not a wimp in the courtroom like you portray him.
I did not portray him that way. That was you preconceived picture before you read that post. I see him as a confident, law abiding judge who know how to work justice within the law. That is how you would look at the secular judge that I described in that post, but your bias prevents you from looking at my depiction the same way.
10King Ahab of Israel and King Jehoshaphat of Judah, dressed in their royal robes, were sitting on thrones at the threshing floor near the gate of Samaria. All of Ahab’s prophets were prophesying there in front of them. 11One of them, Zedekiah son of Kenaanah, made some iron horns and proclaimed, “This is what the LORD says: With these horns you will gore the Arameans to death!”
12All the other prophets agreed. “Yes,” they said, “go up to Ramoth-gilead and be victorious, for the LORD will give the king victory!”
13Meanwhile, the messenger who went to get Micaiah said to him, “Look, all the prophets are promising victory for the king. Be sure that you agree with them and promise success.”
14But Micaiah replied, “As surely as the LORD lives, I will say only what the LORD tells me to say.”
15When Micaiah arrived before the king, Ahab asked him, “Micaiah, should we go to war against Ramoth-gilead, or should we hold back?”
Micaiah replied sarcastically, “Yes, go up and be victorious, for the LORD will give the king victory!”
16But the king replied sharply, “How many times must I demand that you speak only the truth to me when you speak for the LORD?”
17Then Micaiah told him, “In a vision I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, like sheep without a shepherd. And the LORD said, ‘Their master has been killed.a Send them home in peace.’”
18“Didn’t I tell you?” the king of Israel exclaimed to Jehoshaphat. “He never prophesies anything but trouble for me.”
19Then Micaiah continued, “Listen to what the LORD says! I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the armies of heaven around him, on his right and on his left. 20And the LORD said, ‘Who can entice Ahab to go into battle against Ramoth-gilead so he can be killed?’
“There were many suggestions, 21and finally a spirit approached the LORD and said, ‘I can do it!’
“And the spirit replied, ‘I will go out and inspire all of Ahab’s prophets to speak lies.’
“‘You will succeed,’ said the LORD. ‘Go ahead and do it.’
23“So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all your prophets. For the LORD has pronounced your doom.”
24Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah walked up to Micaiah and slapped him across the face. “Since when did the Spirit of the LORD leave me to speak to you?” he demanded.
25And Micaiah replied, “You will find out soon enough when you are trying to hide in some secret room!”
26“Arrest him!” the king of Israel ordered. “Take him back to Amon, the governor of the city, and to my son Joash. 27Give them this order from the king: ‘Put this man in prison, and feed him nothing but bread and water until I return safely from the battle!’”
28But Micaiah replied, “If you return safely, it will mean that the LORD has not spoken through me!” Then he added to those standing around, “Everyone mark my words!”
For God to be a party to lies, it means God is partly responsible for the lies.
3 hours ago, Mike said:
God cannot go against His own Word.
Really? So, God can’t change His mind?
5The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord…Genesis 6 NIV
So, the LORD changed his mind about the terrible disaster he had threatened to bring on his people…Exodus 32:14 NLT
3 hours ago, Mike said:
God cannot go against His own laws.
Really? Did God create the laws of physics?
In the Matthew 14 account of Jesus and Peter both walking on the water – it is evident that God went against at least two laws of physics: the law of gravity and the law of buoyancy:
22Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night, he was there alone, 24and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.
25Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.
27But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
28“Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
I did not portray him that way. That was you preconceived picture before you read that post. I see him as a confident, law abiding judge who know how to work justice within the law. That is how you would look at the secular judge that I described in that post, but your bias prevents you from looking at my depiction the same way.
But the cultural imagery in Job does NOT depict God as a judge - but as the sovereign King - Head God - in the council of deities...There's a difference...He is NOT a courtroom judge bound to uphold the law - He is King of kings - what He says goes! Please remove your head from the anal canal and review the idiom of permission.
If Saint Vic was teaching about how limited God is, he's probably setting up an excuse for the dismal failure of his "law of believing."
It's no secret that many people approached Martindale concerned about where the promised prosperity was. Martindale's response: "You want prosperity? God on welfare."
If Martindale was getting doubtful questions, you know Saint Vic was getting them too. His excuse: Well, you see, God is limited.
If Saint Vic was teaching about how limited God is, he's probably setting up an excuse for the dismal failure of his "law of believing."
It's no secret that many people approached Martindale concerned about where the promised prosperity was. Martindale's response: "You want prosperity? God on welfare."
If Martindale was getting doubtful questions, you know Saint Vic was getting them too. His excuse: Well, you see, God is limited.
Excellent point, So-crates!!!!!
That’s where wierwille’s stipulations come in handy!
Didn’t receive what you were believing for?
Maybe it wasn’t available.
Maybe you weren’t really believing – you just had mental assent.
If Saint Vic was teaching about how limited God is, he's probably setting up an excuse for the dismal failure of his "law of believing."
It's no secret that many people approached Martindale concerned about where the promised prosperity was. Martindale's response: "You want prosperity? God on welfare."
If Martindale was getting doubtful questions, you know Saint Vic was getting them too. His excuse: Well, you see, God is limited.
Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea it happened....I mean Im not surprised or anything but legitly had no idea.
maybe study what the definition of a miracle is...Just a suggestion
I can agree to that.
I am here to learn also.
*/*/*/*/*
I don't believe God lies, and I believe He operates by rules we can't fathom. "My ways are not your ways..." is written.
Now the laws of physics are an interesting matter for you to bring up.
We could talk a long time about this, but I'll keep it brief.
I see the laws of physics as man-made approximations of the physical side of God's setup, which is the natural, 5-senses side, and that these man-made laws are completely blind to the spiritual realm. It is a wonder, though, how much we CAN get to know of this side.
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
I am proposing in this thread that one such glimpse could be what I have described as a limitation on the interventions between the physical and the spiritual, for the purpose of limiting the devil’s ability to mess things up and hurt people.
The limitation can be seen (if you squint a little) in two patterns, which are lightly sprinkled in scripture.
The first pattern is the limitation on the amount of “spiritualities” can flow through an intervention.Don’t ask me what the spiritualities are or mean. Answers like that are not in this glimpse.Like when Elisha asked Elisha for a double portion of spirit, what the heck does THAT mean???We don’t know. The scriptures don’t tell us that, but they do want us to know about the double whammy part.And please don’t ask me what whammies are. The scripture pattern of this is seen in the uses of finite measures, like Elisha did in his request.
The second pattern is the limitation on the time that the “whatevertheyare” can flow by way of the intervention.The scripture pattern of this limitation is double spikes on a flat background on the timeline.
*/*/*
Personally, I get a sense of “flow” from the root “vent” in the word “intervention.”
The first pattern I have not supplied any scriptures for, except the Elisha one just now.They are coming. I just wanted to respond to some comments, and then I will get back to converting them from unreadable to readable.
The second pattern I did supply, and it keeps growing. I found another addition today.
*/*/*
It really is funny how committed you are to rejecting this hunch of mine, even before the first batch of scriptures you and the others were committed.Not just gently biased against it, but fully committed.LoLIt put on a good show for the Read-Only Audience at home, who happen to favor this hunch.
Then I posted my first list, and there was not the tiniest dent in the total bias, with more pure rejection of every point.LoL
I’m laughing, but not surprised, because that is why I brought it here. I knew I’d get a maximally critical audience. This would be the acid test of my hunch. This way I get to see where my argument is weak and where it’s strong.I learn which ways of expressing things works better.
Did you notice that I didn’t use the two analogy words “doors” or “budget” at all in my descriptions of the two patterns a few paragraphs above?You had attached a lot of your bias commitment on those two words, so I thought I’d try another approach.
I wanted to respond to as many comments as I could today.In bits and pieces I am getting the second list of scriptures ready to post.
I’m laughing, but not surprised, because that is why I brought it here.
So you find this funny? You're laughing at me? That's only fair, because I'm laughing at you. You see, I know something you and your read only audience don't know. One day, when you finally get honest with yourself, if not then at the bema, you'll be me.
I pray you and your read only audience get what they deserve. Lord knows, I pray I get what I deserve.
I don't believe God lies, and I believe He operates by rules we can't fathom. "My ways are not your ways..." is written.
Now the laws of physics are an interesting matter for you to bring up.
We could talk a long time about this, but I'll keep it brief.
I see the laws of physics as man-made approximations of the physical side of God's setup, which is the natural, 5-senses side, and that these man-made laws are completely blind to the spiritual realm. It is a wonder, though, how much we CAN get to know of this side.
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
I am proposing in this thread that one such glimpse could be what I have described as a limitation on the interventions between the physical and the spiritual, for the purpose of limiting the devil’s ability to mess things up and hurt people.
The limitation can be seen (if you squint a little) in two patterns, which are lightly sprinkled in scripture.
The first pattern is the limitation on the amount of “spiritualities” can flow through an intervention.Don’t ask me what the spiritualities are or mean. Answers like that are not in this glimpse.Like when Elisha asked Elisha for a double portion of spirit, what the heck does THAT mean???We don’t know. The scriptures don’t tell us that, but they do want us to know about the double whammy part.And please don’t ask me what whammies are. The scripture pattern of this is seen in the uses of finite measures, like Elisha did in his request.
The second pattern is the limitation on the time that the “whatevertheyare” can flow by way of the intervention.The scripture pattern of this limitation is double spikes on a flat background on the timeline.
*/*/*
Personally, I get a sense of “flow” from the root “vent” in the word “intervention.”
The first pattern I have not supplied any scriptures for, except the Elisha one just now.They are coming. I just wanted to respond to some comments, and then I will get back to converting them from unreadable to readable.
The second pattern I did supply, and it keeps growing. I found another addition today.
*/*/*
It really is funny how committed you are to rejecting this hunch of mine, even before the first batch of scriptures you and the others were committed.Not just gently biased against it, but fully committed.LoLIt put on a good show for the Read-Only Audience at home, who happen to favor this hunch.
Then I posted my first list, and there was not the tiniest dent in the total bias, with more pure rejection of every point.LoL
I’m laughing, but not surprised, because that is why I brought it here. I knew I’d get a maximally critical audience. This would be the acid test of my hunch. This way I get to see where my argument is weak and where it’s strong.I learn which ways of expressing things works better.
Did you notice that I didn’t use the two analogy words “doors” or “budget” at all in my descriptions of the two patterns a few paragraphs above?You had attached a lot of your bias commitment on those two words, so I thought I’d try another approach.
I wanted to respond to as many comments as I could today.In bits and pieces I am getting the second list of scriptures ready to post.
Still - you assume God has rules - just saying
your premises are so categorically unbiblical and untenable any reasonable person would reject them right off the bat!
your argument is weak everywhere because it has no strength of support anywhere!
Your “theories” of limitations about God or the devil are asinine - since you don’t know what you’re talking about and ignore scripture presented to debunk your goofy ideas - like earlier I Peter 5:8 …please review previous posts before you go spinning up more bull-$hit.
Criminy! Doors are time. How many times do I have to explain it?
Not rules. Laws. LAWS. His hands are tied. He's a law maker not a law breaker. He's not strong enough or courageous enough or creative enough to break his own laws.
Hey! He's willing, but he's unable. But, boy, oh boy, is he willing. But not able. Just like it sounds: A-B-L-E.
He's a pun-kass simp of a god. A construct of mortal thought. Got ta make it fit.
Criminy! Doors are time. How many times do I have to explain it?
Not rules. Laws. LAWS. His hands are tied. He's a law maker not a law breaker. He's not strong enough or courageous enough or creative enough to break his own laws.
Hey! His willing, but he's unable. But, boy, oh boy, is he willing. But not able. Just like it sounds: A-B-L-E.
He's a pun-kass simp of a god. A construct of mortal thought. Got ta make it fit.
Golly gee whiz!
Mike has a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth…it reminds me of wierwille’s contradictory ideas. He’d talk about God’s ineffable greatness on one hand but then he’d put God in a box with what He can and cannot do.
Mike has a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth…it reminds me of wierwille’s contradictory ideas. He’d talk about God’s ineffable greatness on one hand but then he’d put God in a box with what He can and cannot do.
I'm laughing at the irony of the blindness that a bias imparts.
The irony is in the bias being a feeling of super knowing.
You should know, that's what you displayed through this whole thread: a blind bias that's puffed you up. Say isn't there a verse or two about how the love of God isn't puffed up?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
But I wish you the best at the bema.
Seeing as God loves a haughty spirit, it should be me wishing you best at the bema.
I see the laws of physics as man-made approximations of the physical side of God's setup, which is the natural, 5-senses side, and that these man-made laws are completely blind to the spiritual realm. It is a wonder, though, how much we CAN get to know of this side.
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
That may be how YOU see it but that doesn’t make it so.
I believe the laws of physics were created by God. Science studies what can be observed and measured. The metaphysical realm by definition is beyond the five senses - thus beyond science.
Metaphysics is usually tackled by philosophy, theology, and such - disciplines that are NOT hard science. The Bible is malleable - and so people…even believe it or not - fake doctors and cult-leaders can twist it around to say anything they want.
I’m laughing, but not surprised, because that is why I brought it here. I knew I’d get a maximally critical audience. This would be the acid test of my hunch.
maybe that's where you went wrong...instead of coming here to have your acid tested, you could have brought a sample to the DEA and have their lab do a thorough analysis - my amateur guess is that whatever it is you're tripping on has got to have some potent $hit in that LSD. that's just my opinion though - I could be wrong.
That may be how YOU see it but that doesn’t make it so.
I believe the laws of physics were created by God. Science studies what can be observed and measured. The metaphysical realm by definition is beyond the five senses - thus beyond science.
Metaphysics is usually tackled by philosophy, theology, and such - disciplines that are NOT hard science. The Bible is malleable - and so people…even believe it or not - fake doctors and cult-leaders can twist it around to say anything they want.
Stephen Colbert calls it "truthie": Something you wish were true, but isn't.
Now the laws of physics are an interesting matter for you to bring up.We could talk a long time about this, but I'll keep it brief.I see the laws of physics as man-made approximations of the physical side of God's setup, which is the natural, 5-senses side, and that these man-made laws are completely blind to the spiritual realm. It is a wonder, though, how much we CAN get to know of this side.
“Hold my beer,” say physicists Donald Hoffman, Wolfgang Smith, Bernardo Kastrup, Tom Campbell…
6 hours ago, Mike said:
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
Why? Which scriptures? Are you sure? How do you know?
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
This seems to be circular reasoning:
Mike says: Get tiny glimpses of the spiritual side.
These tiny glimpses would have to come from the scriptures and fit with the scriptures.
But the ‘glimpses’ you describe are embellished…sometimes distorted – you see God as a judge in a courtroom – and I see God as sovereign Lord over satellite ‘nations’ – a divine council.
How do you know it’s not you reading into the scriptures?
So far, that’s what you’ve been doing on this thread.
For instance, you keep harping on Job 1 & 2 as depicting a modern-day legal courtroom scene with God as judge and the devil as prosecutor – and you seem to think that is an accurate glimpse into the spiritual realm. I’ve pointed it out to you several times – here and on other threads – the culturalism in Job, depicts a divine council ( a common concept in many ancient cultures) – like the account in I Kings 22 that I shared earlier. The idea is there’s all these deities having a supernatural meeting / conference. The ancient Hebrews adapted that to their religion – so Yahweh is always depicted as the head deity…most high God…the most powerful God over all other divine beings.
How literal are we supposed to take descriptions of the supernatural?
His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude…Daniel 10:6
There’s a lot of symbolism going on there. What did that stuff represent to the people of that culture when this was written? Same goes for Job 1 & 2 and I Kings 22… The function of allegory in literature is to convey a complex idea through an in-depth metaphorical narrative. Famous allegories include Dante 's Divine Comedy, George Orwell's Animal Farm, and John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress. All of these works use allegorical techniques to convey different messages to the ones literally written on the page.From What Is the Function of Allegory in Literature? (with pictures) (languagehumanities.org)
So what’s the main idea in Job 1 & 2 and I Kings 22? Yahweh is TOP GOD – He calls the shots!
11 hours ago, Mike said:
I am proposing in this thread that one such glimpse could be what I have described as a limitation on the interventions between the physical and the spiritual, for the purpose of limiting the devil’s ability to mess things up and hurt people.
I think that's wishful thinking on your part...hiding your head in the sand to ignore how bad things are in the real world.
The Scriptures – like the ones I’ve already mentioned: Romans 8 NIV , 1 Peter 5 NIV andHebrews 11 NIV – they speak of the mess we’re in – and continue to have – and will even get worse- - due to the evil activity of both humans and demons – and not just for the secular world – but also in the church – God never promised us a trouble free life – there’s trouble without, trouble within (our own sinful nature) – persecution, and on the news we hear more and more about bat-$hit crazy evil people committing mass-shootings, terrorist acts, vehicles and knives used as weapons…and wacko religious cult-leaders with their cult following – starting up new cults, infiltrating churches and politics (Christian Nationalism for instance) - this is all evident in passages like 2 Timothy 2 ,Matthew 24 NIV , 2 Peter 2 NIV , 2 Corinthians 4 NIV , Romans 1 NIV , 1 Thessalonians 3 NIV , 1 Thessalonians 5 NIV , 2 Thessalonians 2 NIV .
11 hours ago, Mike said:
The limitation can be seen (if you squint a little) in two patterns, which are lightly sprinkled in scripture.
The first pattern is the limitation on the amount of “spiritualities” can flow through an intervention.Don’t ask me what the spiritualities are or mean. Answers like that are not in this glimpse.Like when Elisha asked Elisha for a double portion of spirit, what the heck does THAT mean???We don’t know. The scriptures don’t tell us that, but they do want us to know about the double whammy part.And please don’t ask me what whammies are. The scripture pattern of this is seen in the uses of finite measures, like Elisha did in his request.
The thing is Mike, it seems to me you get hung up in imaginary patterns – the scant scripture and weird theories that you’ve tried to correlate on this thread, may seem TO YOUto have some regular, intelligible, repeatable form – but – your audience isn’t buying it. Below are a few hyperlinks on deciphering patterns and codes – maybe this will help you retool:
BUT bear in mind the above is about interpreting patterns…not to be confused with interpreting Scripture or translating a language. Different skill sets involved - linguistics, cultural familiarity for example. In my opinion interpreting / translating the sacred texts of The Bible to a large extent is understanding what the message meant to the original audience – and only after that can we begin to abstract relevant meaning. The subject of hidden Bible codes is beyond the scope of this post. Oy vey – don’t get me started.
11 hours ago, Mike said:
The second pattern is the limitation on the time that the “whatevertheyare” can flow by way of the intervention.The scripture pattern of this limitation is double spikes on a flat background on the timeline.
the fact that YOU CANNOT articulate what they are leads me to believe YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT...you refer to some pattern that only you can see and fail to point out to others - try as you may - you are persistent - I'll give you that
Edited by T-Bone Typos and repos are you finding what you need at local Home Depots?
The thing is Mike, it seems to me you get hung up in imaginary patterns – the scant scripture and weird theories that you’ve tried to correlate on this thread, may seem TO YOUto have some regular, intelligible, repeatable form – but – your audience isn’t buying it. Below are a few hyperlinks on deciphering patterns and codes – maybe this will help you retool:
It seem that mike has no actual respect for scripture or actual faith that God is capable of having a book written that can just be read for what it says. No secret numerical code, no secret word games, etc, all that stuff is occultic in nature. Also, no wierwille needed. Nobody needs wierwille's faulty intrepretations of scripture that are rooted in the occult and from charlatans like EW Kenyon, name it and claim it garbage. Mike's defence mechanisms are so strong around his illogic that not one shred of humility shines through. Its just mike's way and when we try and tell him "yo, mikey, scripture diesnt say that" it's always our fault because "we just don't get it". Sad part is mike probably thinks we actually can't understand spiritual matters because were so out of fellowship and hate filled around here...ya ok.
Mike: you need a closed society like the way international that's heavily controlled and that lacks basic honesty to be able to function with some of this junk. You can present a topic and everyone can say "wonderful, tremendous, oh thats so spiritually deep, and so forth". But when any level of critical thiking is applied to your theories they fall flat by all standards, well, except your standards but you can move those all you need. Its sad really. You seem to be an intelligent, kind hearted individual.
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I did not portray him that way. That was you preconceived picture before you read that post. I see him as a confident, law abiding judge who know how to work justice within the law. That is how you would look at the secular judge that I described in that post, but your bias prevents you from looking at my depiction the same way.
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Really? Check out I Kings 22:
10King Ahab of Israel and King Jehoshaphat of Judah, dressed in their royal robes, were sitting on thrones at the threshing floor near the gate of Samaria. All of Ahab’s prophets were prophesying there in front of them. 11One of them, Zedekiah son of Kenaanah, made some iron horns and proclaimed, “This is what the LORD says: With these horns you will gore the Arameans to death!”
12All the other prophets agreed. “Yes,” they said, “go up to Ramoth-gilead and be victorious, for the LORD will give the king victory!”
13Meanwhile, the messenger who went to get Micaiah said to him, “Look, all the prophets are promising victory for the king. Be sure that you agree with them and promise success.”
14But Micaiah replied, “As surely as the LORD lives, I will say only what the LORD tells me to say.”
15When Micaiah arrived before the king, Ahab asked him, “Micaiah, should we go to war against Ramoth-gilead, or should we hold back?”
Micaiah replied sarcastically, “Yes, go up and be victorious, for the LORD will give the king victory!”
16But the king replied sharply, “How many times must I demand that you speak only the truth to me when you speak for the LORD?”
17Then Micaiah told him, “In a vision I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, like sheep without a shepherd. And the LORD said, ‘Their master has been killed.a Send them home in peace.’”
18“Didn’t I tell you?” the king of Israel exclaimed to Jehoshaphat. “He never prophesies anything but trouble for me.”
19Then Micaiah continued, “Listen to what the LORD says! I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the armies of heaven around him, on his right and on his left. 20 And the LORD said, ‘Who can entice Ahab to go into battle against Ramoth-gilead so he can be killed?’
“There were many suggestions, 21 and finally a spirit approached the LORD and said, ‘I can do it!’
22“‘How will you do this?’ the LORD asked.
“And the spirit replied, ‘I will go out and inspire all of Ahab’s prophets to speak lies.’
“‘You will succeed,’ said the LORD. ‘Go ahead and do it.’
23“So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all your prophets. For the LORD has pronounced your doom.”
24Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah walked up to Micaiah and slapped him across the face. “Since when did the Spirit of the LORD leave me to speak to you?” he demanded.
25And Micaiah replied, “You will find out soon enough when you are trying to hide in some secret room!”
26“Arrest him!” the king of Israel ordered. “Take him back to Amon, the governor of the city, and to my son Joash. 27Give them this order from the king: ‘Put this man in prison, and feed him nothing but bread and water until I return safely from the battle!’”
28But Micaiah replied, “If you return safely, it will mean that the LORD has not spoken through me!” Then he added to those standing around, “Everyone mark my words!”
1 Kings 22 NLT
For God to be a party to lies, it means God is partly responsible for the lies.
Really? So, God can’t change His mind?
5The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord…Genesis 6 NIV
So, the LORD changed his mind about the terrible disaster he had threatened to bring on his people…Exodus 32:14 NLT
Really? Did God create the laws of physics?
In the Matthew 14 account of Jesus and Peter both walking on the water – it is evident that God went against at least two laws of physics: the law of gravity and the law of buoyancy:
22Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night, he was there alone, 24and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.
25Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.
27But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
28“Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
29“Come,” he said.
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus…Matthew 14 NIV
maybe study what the definition of a miracle is...Just a suggestion
Edited by T-Boneand furthermore
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T-Bone
But the cultural imagery in Job does NOT depict God as a judge - but as the sovereign King - Head God - in the council of deities...There's a difference...He is NOT a courtroom judge bound to uphold the law - He is King of kings - what He says goes! Please remove your head from the anal canal and review the idiom of permission.
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T-Bone
I specified limited access
so no, it doesn't count!
access = a means of approaching or entering a place
you're talking about the killing of someone.
you're conflating 2 different issues
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So_crates
If Saint Vic was teaching about how limited God is, he's probably setting up an excuse for the dismal failure of his "law of believing."
It's no secret that many people approached Martindale concerned about where the promised prosperity was. Martindale's response: "You want prosperity? God on welfare."
If Martindale was getting doubtful questions, you know Saint Vic was getting them too. His excuse: Well, you see, God is limited.
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T-Bone
Excellent point, So-crates!!!!!
That’s where wierwille’s stipulations come in handy!
Didn’t receive what you were believing for?
Maybe it wasn’t available.
Maybe you weren’t really believing – you just had mental assent.
I know - you haven’t been abundantly sharing.
You ninny, you were probably out of fellowship.
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OldSkool
Yep....always blame the victim.
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OldSkool
Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea it happened....I mean Im not surprised or anything but legitly had no idea.
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Mike
I can agree to that.
I am here to learn also.
*/*/*/*/*
I don't believe God lies, and I believe He operates by rules we can't fathom. "My ways are not your ways..." is written.
Now the laws of physics are an interesting matter for you to bring up.
We could talk a long time about this, but I'll keep it brief.
I see the laws of physics as man-made approximations of the physical side of God's setup, which is the natural, 5-senses side, and that these man-made laws are completely blind to the spiritual realm. It is a wonder, though, how much we CAN get to know of this side.
But we only get to know tiny glimpses of the spiritual side. And these glimpses would have to come from, and fit with the scriptures.
I am proposing in this thread that one such glimpse could be what I have described as a limitation on the interventions between the physical and the spiritual, for the purpose of limiting the devil’s ability to mess things up and hurt people.
The limitation can be seen (if you squint a little) in two patterns, which are lightly sprinkled in scripture.
The first pattern is the limitation on the amount of “spiritualities” can flow through an intervention. Don’t ask me what the spiritualities are or mean. Answers like that are not in this glimpse. Like when Elisha asked Elisha for a double portion of spirit, what the heck does THAT mean??? We don’t know. The scriptures don’t tell us that, but they do want us to know about the double whammy part. And please don’t ask me what whammies are. The scripture pattern of this is seen in the uses of finite measures, like Elisha did in his request.
The second pattern is the limitation on the time that the “whatevertheyare” can flow by way of the intervention. The scripture pattern of this limitation is double spikes on a flat background on the timeline.
*/*/*
Personally, I get a sense of “flow” from the root “vent” in the word “intervention.”
The first pattern I have not supplied any scriptures for, except the Elisha one just now. They are coming. I just wanted to respond to some comments, and then I will get back to converting them from unreadable to readable.
The second pattern I did supply, and it keeps growing. I found another addition today.
*/*/*
It really is funny how committed you are to rejecting this hunch of mine, even before the first batch of scriptures you and the others were committed. Not just gently biased against it, but fully committed. LoL It put on a good show for the Read-Only Audience at home, who happen to favor this hunch.
Then I posted my first list, and there was not the tiniest dent in the total bias, with more pure rejection of every point. LoL
I’m laughing, but not surprised, because that is why I brought it here. I knew I’d get a maximally critical audience. This would be the acid test of my hunch. This way I get to see where my argument is weak and where it’s strong. I learn which ways of expressing things works better.
Did you notice that I didn’t use the two analogy words “doors” or “budget” at all in my descriptions of the two patterns a few paragraphs above? You had attached a lot of your bias commitment on those two words, so I thought I’d try another approach.
I wanted to respond to as many comments as I could today. In bits and pieces I am getting the second list of scriptures ready to post.
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So_crates
So you find this funny? You're laughing at me? That's only fair, because I'm laughing at you. You see, I know something you and your read only audience don't know. One day, when you finally get honest with yourself, if not then at the bema, you'll be me.
I pray you and your read only audience get what they deserve. Lord knows, I pray I get what I deserve.
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So_crates
Another reason to stay away from the Way and PLAF Today.
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T-Bone
Still - you assume God has rules - just saying
your premises are so categorically unbiblical and untenable any reasonable person would reject them right off the bat!
your argument is weak everywhere because it has no strength of support anywhere!
Your “theories” of limitations about God or the devil are asinine - since you don’t know what you’re talking about and ignore scripture presented to debunk your goofy ideas - like earlier I Peter 5:8 …please review previous posts before you go spinning up more bull-$hit.
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Nathan_Jr
No!
Criminy! Doors are time. How many times do I have to explain it?
Not rules. Laws. LAWS. His hands are tied. He's a law maker not a law breaker. He's not strong enough or courageous enough or creative enough to break his own laws.
Hey! He's willing, but he's unable. But, boy, oh boy, is he willing. But not able. Just like it sounds: A-B-L-E.
He's a pun-kass simp of a god. A construct of mortal thought. Got ta make it fit.
Golly gee whiz!
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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T-Bone
Mike has a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth…it reminds me of wierwille’s contradictory ideas. He’d talk about God’s ineffable greatness on one hand but then he’d put God in a box with what He can and cannot do.
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Nathan_Jr
Yikes!
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Mike
I'm laughing at the irony of the blindness that a bias imparts.
The irony is in the bias being a feeling of super knowing.
But I wish you the best at the bema.
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So_crates
You should know, that's what you displayed through this whole thread: a blind bias that's puffed you up. Say isn't there a verse or two about how the love of God isn't puffed up?
Seeing as God loves a haughty spirit, it should be me wishing you best at the bema.
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T-Bone
That may be how YOU see it but that doesn’t make it so.
I believe the laws of physics were created by God. Science studies what can be observed and measured. The metaphysical realm by definition is beyond the five senses - thus beyond science.
Metaphysics is usually tackled by philosophy, theology, and such - disciplines that are NOT hard science. The Bible is malleable - and so people…even believe it or not - fake doctors and cult-leaders can twist it around to say anything they want.
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T-Bone
maybe that's where you went wrong...instead of coming here to have your acid tested, you could have brought a sample to the DEA and have their lab do a thorough analysis - my amateur guess is that whatever it is you're tripping on has got to have some potent $hit in that LSD. that's just my opinion though - I could be wrong.
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So_crates
Stephen Colbert calls it "truthie": Something you wish were true, but isn't.
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Nathan_Jr
“Hold my beer,” say physicists Donald Hoffman, Wolfgang Smith, Bernardo Kastrup, Tom Campbell…
Why? Which scriptures? Are you sure? How do you know?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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T-Bone
This seems to be circular reasoning:
Mike says: Get tiny glimpses of the spiritual side.
These tiny glimpses would have to come from the scriptures and fit with the scriptures.
But the ‘glimpses’ you describe are embellished…sometimes distorted – you see God as a judge in a courtroom – and I see God as sovereign Lord over satellite ‘nations’ – a divine council.
How do you know it’s not you reading into the scriptures?
So far, that’s what you’ve been doing on this thread.
For instance, you keep harping on Job 1 & 2 as depicting a modern-day legal courtroom scene with God as judge and the devil as prosecutor – and you seem to think that is an accurate glimpse into the spiritual realm. I’ve pointed it out to you several times – here and on other threads – the culturalism in Job, depicts a divine council ( a common concept in many ancient cultures) – like the account in I Kings 22 that I shared earlier. The idea is there’s all these deities having a supernatural meeting / conference. The ancient Hebrews adapted that to their religion – so Yahweh is always depicted as the head deity…most high God…the most powerful God over all other divine beings.
How literal are we supposed to take descriptions of the supernatural?
His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude…Daniel 10:6
There’s a lot of symbolism going on there. What did that stuff represent to the people of that culture when this was written? Same goes for Job 1 & 2 and I Kings 22… The function of allegory in literature is to convey a complex idea through an in-depth metaphorical narrative. Famous allegories include Dante 's Divine Comedy, George Orwell's Animal Farm, and John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress. All of these works use allegorical techniques to convey different messages to the ones literally written on the page. From What Is the Function of Allegory in Literature? (with pictures) (languagehumanities.org)
So what’s the main idea in Job 1 & 2 and I Kings 22? Yahweh is TOP GOD – He calls the shots!
I think that's wishful thinking on your part...hiding your head in the sand to ignore how bad things are in the real world.
The Scriptures – like the ones I’ve already mentioned: Romans 8 NIV , 1 Peter 5 NIV and Hebrews 11 NIV – they speak of the mess we’re in – and continue to have – and will even get worse - - due to the evil activity of both humans and demons – and not just for the secular world – but also in the church – God never promised us a trouble free life – there’s trouble without, trouble within (our own sinful nature) – persecution, and on the news we hear more and more about bat-$hit crazy evil people committing mass-shootings, terrorist acts, vehicles and knives used as weapons…and wacko religious cult-leaders with their cult following – starting up new cults, infiltrating churches and politics (Christian Nationalism for instance) - this is all evident in passages like 2 Timothy 2 , Matthew 24 NIV , 2 Peter 2 NIV , 2 Corinthians 4 NIV , Romans 1 NIV , 1 Thessalonians 3 NIV , 1 Thessalonians 5 NIV , 2 Thessalonians 2 NIV .
The thing is Mike, it seems to me you get hung up in imaginary patterns – the scant scripture and weird theories that you’ve tried to correlate on this thread, may seem TO YOU to have some regular, intelligible, repeatable form – but – your audience isn’t buying it. Below are a few hyperlinks on deciphering patterns and codes – maybe this will help you retool:
How to Decipher a Secret Code: 13 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
Coding Decoding Reasoning: Know Key Concept, Solved Examples & Tips (testbook.com)
Decrypt a Message - Cipher Identifier - Online Code Recognizer (dcode.fr)
BUT bear in mind the above is about interpreting patterns…not to be confused with interpreting Scripture or translating a language. Different skill sets involved - linguistics, cultural familiarity for example. In my opinion interpreting / translating the sacred texts of The Bible to a large extent is understanding what the message meant to the original audience – and only after that can we begin to abstract relevant meaning. The subject of hidden Bible codes is beyond the scope of this post. Oy vey – don’t get me started.
the fact that YOU CANNOT articulate what they are leads me to believe YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT...you refer to some pattern that only you can see and fail to point out to others - try as you may - you are persistent - I'll give you that
Edited by T-BoneTypos and repos are you finding what you need at local Home Depots?
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OldSkool
It seem that mike has no actual respect for scripture or actual faith that God is capable of having a book written that can just be read for what it says. No secret numerical code, no secret word games, etc, all that stuff is occultic in nature. Also, no wierwille needed. Nobody needs wierwille's faulty intrepretations of scripture that are rooted in the occult and from charlatans like EW Kenyon, name it and claim it garbage. Mike's defence mechanisms are so strong around his illogic that not one shred of humility shines through. Its just mike's way and when we try and tell him "yo, mikey, scripture diesnt say that" it's always our fault because "we just don't get it". Sad part is mike probably thinks we actually can't understand spiritual matters because were so out of fellowship and hate filled around here...ya ok.
Mike: you need a closed society like the way international that's heavily controlled and that lacks basic honesty to be able to function with some of this junk. You can present a topic and everyone can say "wonderful, tremendous, oh thats so spiritually deep, and so forth". But when any level of critical thiking is applied to your theories they fall flat by all standards, well, except your standards but you can move those all you need. Its sad really. You seem to be an intelligent, kind hearted individual.
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T-Bone
I usually lock horns with Mike - I agree with what you said about him
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