The no debt policy was a trap of seismic proportions.
Its also another majorly stupid policy for running Lord knows how many people the heck away from the way international. They just can't seem to get it right. They bums rush and policy as many people out the doors as they can then send a postcard asking people to come home? Head trip...no?
Its also another majorly stupid policy for running Lord knows how many people the heck away from the way international. They just can't seem to get it right. They bums rush and policy as many people out the doors as they can then send a postcard asking people to come home? Head trip...no?
That's the thing about narcissism.... they don't know when they're "over their skies" until it's too late. They lose judgment on their surroundings... being only tunnel-visioned on what they want to happen.
When it finally dawns on them what did happen... they send out "time to come home? postcards. It's a knee-jerk outfit that never had a whole lot of credibility to begin with.
When twi-followers are looking for an exit ramp.... GSC is a Godsend. No other splinter group or website offers more than this one. This is a direct approach to getting questions answered that you have been looking for. We handle the tough subjects and twi's hidden underbelly.
Different forums are available. If you are strictly concerned about The Way International, then searching "About the Way" is the forum you'd chose. With 189 pages, there is a lot of ground covered.... but I would recommend scouring thru the first 15 pages.Find a thread that piques your interest. There is so much information that, at times, it might seem overwhelming.
Therefore, treat GSC as you would any one research topic or collateral book. With limited time, pace yourself with a goal in mind. What are your interests, questions or main concern? GSC is an open forum with live discussions coming in from all sides. At times, you might want to pick a couple of posters that seem to give you a perspective that relates to you. Other times, you might choose to read the more combative threads. Happy exploring.
After lurking a while, sign in and join the party.
Years ago, when we were pointing out these Back Door Mortgages.... I found out thru a few friends that Rev. Pa*l G!les in Tampa had a mortgage where the in-laws had purchased the home. They were making payments to the in-law parents. Same thing was happening in Indianapolis with Rev. J0n Ry@n.... same gig. So, twi had this NO DEBT POLICY and twi-clergy had found a work-around system to bypass the mandate. Slick, sick deception.... by clergymen.
The hypocrisy stinks throughout twi. It's the little guy who obeys the rules that gets crushed. He dutifully obeys thinking that God's blessings are just around the corner so he waits...and waits...and waits. Some of the clergymen don't wait, they know how the game is played.... *Don't Get Caught.*
The no debt policy was a trap of seismic proportions.
Yeah, how often did we encounter that? People get their advanced education or business acumen BEFORE they come on board with twi. Then, twi puts them out there front-and-center.... as if to say. "See...see how God builds and brings forth His people to do mighty things for twi, God's ministry!" Dr. R@wlins had delivered nearly 10,000 babies in her early career.... BEFORE championing twi's cause.
I can't name ONE INDIVIDUAL who came up from the ranks of pfal to corps grad to board of directors who has done anything of significance in the business/professional world. Can you?
Everyone in this category was a tag-on.... a professional, a star in their field BEFORE twi. Therefore, I call twi a "glory-grabber".... someone who in my childhood we referred to as a late-comer, hogging the basketball and wanting the applause when it was a team effort. Twi has always done this. Everybody whom wierwille "promoted" to the trustee level or high offices came up thru the ranks of the obedience servant to wierwille. Nothing more.
This stuff all reeks of hypocrisy and fraud salesmanship. In other words.... snake oil.
Yeah, how often do we encounter that? People get their advanced education or business acumen BEFORE they come on board with twi. Then, twi puts them out there front-and-center.... as if to say. "See...see how God builds and brings forth His people to do mighty things for twi, God's ministry!" Dr. R@wlins had delivered nearly 10,000 babies in her early career.... BEFORE championing twi's cause.
I can't name ONE INDIVIDUAL who came up from the ranks of pfal to corps grad to board of directors who has done anything of significance in the business/professional world. Can you?
Everyone in this category was a tag-on.... a professional, a star in their field BEFORE twi. Therefore, I call twi a "glory-grabber".... someone who in my childhood we referred to as a late-comer, hogging the basketball and wanting the applause when it was a team effort. Twi has always done this. Everybody whom wierwille "promoted" to the trustee level or high offices came up thru the ranks of the obedience servant to wierwille. Nothing more.
This stuff all reeks of hypocrisy and fraud salesmanship. In other words.... snake oil.
.
No doubt. Plus folks like Dr Rawlins were given special status amongst the trustees/directors. I liked Dr Rawlins and enjoyed her classes when I was in-res...but how much anyone wanna bet she had Drambuie in her coffee mug.
Then there's the guys Martindale pushed out there...anyone with a military service career especially. Thinking of S@m Gr@ham in this regard. They try and grab anyone who can give them some form of legitimacy amongst the professional world.
No doubt. Plus folks like Dr Rawlins were given special status amongst the trustees/directors. I liked Dr Rawlins and enjoyed her classes when I was in-res...but how much anyone wanna bet she had Drambuie in her coffee mug.
Then there's the guys Martindale pushed out there...anyone with a military service career especially. Thinking of S@m Gr@ham in this regard. They try and grab anyone who can give them some form of legitimacy amongst the professional world.
For many years, she got to live out a big portion of her retirement years with adulation because of her status to the trustees/directors. She got first-class treatment of service to her, because of that recognition.... not necessarily for her past professional life. So, she got her reward of schmoozing with the upper tier of twi.
Big whoop. Like where are we commanded in scriptures to pay adulation to man/woman? All of this stuff just reefs of adulation/idolatry. On a "Christian campus" (cough, cough) where was the DAILY thanks and giving to the lord Jesus Christ? Sheesh.
When twi-followers are looking for an exit ramp.... GSC is a Godsend. No other splinter group or website offers more than this one.
But is GSC enough? Yes, GSC provides answers. Intellectual nourishment. However, since we humans are social creatures, and since belonging is really the need twi satisfied for each of us, can (or does, at least in some cases?) GSC provide some direction on or actual fulfillment of former followers' social/belonging need?
I am already persuaded personally how GSC provides some answers to legitimate questions regarding twi positions contrary to biblical teaching and understanding.
But is GSC enough? Yes, GSC provides answers. Intellectual nourishment. However, since we humans are social creatures, and since belonging is really the need twi satisfied for each of us, can (or does, at least in some cases?) GSC provide some direction on or actual fulfillment of former followers' social/belonging need?
I am already persuaded personally how GSC provides some answers to legitimate questions regarding twi positions contrary to biblical teaching and understanding.
Yes, we look for ways of social belonging.... or at least, most all do. I suppose there is that one individual who sits at his computer screen all day long and darts in and out of various websites.... but I don't. I have family, work, neighbors, charitable groups I support and sometimes church. There is plenty of activity for this guy... totally enjoying life at a slower pace than the last four decades. But I do enjoy the thought-provoking insight and discussions here at GSC.
With the accumulative bounty of backgrounds and experiences here, I doubt that I could find another place like it that would offer such wisdom and insight. Yes, wisdom.... the sum total of learning through the ages, the knowledge gained. One just needs a little patience to slow down and listen (and read).
Yes, we look for ways of social belonging.... or at least, most all do. I suppose there is that one individual who sits at his computer screen all day long and darts in and out of various websites.... but I don't. I have family, work, neighbors, charitable groups I support and sometimes church. There is plenty of activity for this guy... totally enjoying life at a slower pace than the last four decades. But I do enjoy the thought-provoking insight and discussions here at GSC.
With the accumulative bounty of backgrounds and experiences here, I doubt that I could find another place like it that would offer such wisdom and insight. Yes, wisdom.... the sum total of learning through the ages, the knowledge gained. One just needs a little patience to slow down and listen (and read).
Wonderful insight. I have no doubt many who separate from the cult will eventually find a tribe to which they feel comfortable belonging. LOL... I spend a lot of time in front of my computer... and with books... and with friends/family at times. My reflections on people's social needs stems from seeing how it's much easier for people to leave twi, at least with less exit trauma (loss of social network, especially) if they see the light at the end of the tunnel.
In contrast, there are those who leave the cult when they are personally fed up. Charlene exquisitely described how that was her journey. As have you.
I'm thankful for the way we can bounce ideas off of each other (not just you and me) and the accumulated bounty of wisdom and insight is much greater than just the sum of 2 plus 2 equaling 4.
Wonderful insight. I have no doubt many who separate from the cult will eventually find a tribe to which they feel comfortable belonging. LOL... I spend a lot of time in front of my computer... and with books... and with friends/family at times. My reflections on people's social needs stems from seeing how it's much easier for people to leave twi, at least with less exit trauma (loss of social network, especially) if they see the light at the end of the tunnel.
In contrast, there are those who leave the cult when they are personally fed up. Charlene exquisitely described how that was her journey. As have you.
I'm thankful for the way we can bounce ideas off of each other (not just you and me) and the accumulated bounty of wisdom and insight is much greater than just the sum of 2 plus 2 equaling 4.
Yes, with the social network of the internet in play... it is "so much easier" to exit twi today than in the 70's, 80's or 90's. Instantly, you can find support and friends scattered across the country through a number of networks (ie. Facebook or Friend Finder here on GSC). Somebody generally knows someone who can lead you to that long lost friend or acquaintance.
Exit trauma is real, but it can be minimized as long as you keep stretching forward. Do not get caught in a trap of despair or depression. The best days could be right before your eyes. But if you exit twi and STILL hold to waybrain nostalgia and doctrine....then the trap of guilt closes in around you.
Reading is good. Humor is good. Walking in the sunshine is good. Getting a dog as a companion is very healthy. LOL Test the waters of new hobbies. Make the precious moments of the present your friend.
Today is March 4th. To me, it is a significant day. It's the only day on the calendar with a command.... March Forth. The precious moments of our lives are ticking away.
Whatever it is that fuels your gas tank, get busy doing it. Take nothing for granted. Time wasted is time lost. Do not allow a hurtful past steal from a promising present. And, do not allow a promising present overshadow the hope and glory of an eternal future.
I treasure this day, March 4th.... because of what it represents to me. In 1984, I left twi's headquarters with my wife and Vince Finnegan to fly to London, Ontario Canada. Preparations and procedures had already been in play for my wife and I to become the next country coordinators of Canada. Suffice it to say that the last man fell on his face and time was of the essence to replace him immediately.
So, on that day a whole new world opened up to me. Different country. Translation of another language was needed for me (in French Quebec). Metric system. Multi-cultured ethnic groups in every major city.... far more diversified than the U.S. (which seemed new to me in 1984). Language barriers. I was no longer in Kansas.... er, rural Ohio anymore. LOL
Living there for three years was a thrill of a lifetime. The people and culture were fascinating. My travels led me from the west coast to the east coast, from Vancouver, British Columbia to Moncton, New Brunswick. Spending time with Canadian believers was a treasure that I will cherish a lifetime. Lots of events, fun, laughter, weddings and some funerals. Besides the ministry work, I got to alpine snow ski at Whistler, B.C., tour Banff National Park and resort areas several times and ice skate on the canals in Ottawa, Ontario. Three years of power-packed activity.
So, on this March 4th... I raise my glass to salute my Canadian brethren for welcoming me to their country and their homes. Those moments of treasured time spent will be cherished for the rest of my life.
Then there's the guys Martindale pushed out there...anyone with a military service career especially. Thinking of S@m Gr@ham in this regard. They try and grab anyone who can give them some form of legitimacy amongst the professional world.
Yes, twi tried to put higher ranked military men in the spotlight.
The exception with military personnel was.... when they were called to duty, their commitment to military service was #1 priority. No messing around. No bowing to twi-leadership. No taking orders from wierwille or martindale. Nope, none of that. These men never needed to kowtow to region/limb guys. If they were on base and unavailable for a pfal class schedule.... nothing further needed to be said. Twi could not employ their fear or guilt weaponry on them. It did NOT work.
The boundary lines were set and no amount of twi-wrangling could change it. These military men took their orders from someone "higher" than wierwille. I loved it.
But is GSC enough? Yes, GSC provides answers. Intellectual nourishment. However, since we humans are social creatures, and since belonging is really the need twi satisfied for each of us, can (or does, at least in some cases?) GSC provide some direction on or actual fulfillment of former followers' social/belonging need?
I am already persuaded personally how GSC provides some answers to legitimate questions regarding twi positions contrary to biblical teaching and understanding.
Hey Rocky I would say no GSC is not enough. We are just crowdsourcing recovery here in a community.
It will take concerted effort and IRL support groups overall for good effectiveness.
But crowdsourcing spiritual topics to me is the essence of the body of Christ in action.
Yes, twi tried to put higher ranked military men in the spotlight.
The exception with military personnel was.... when they were called to duty, their commitment to military service was #1 priority. No messing around. No bowing to twi-leadership. No taking orders from wierwille or martindale. Nope, none of that. These men never needed to kowtow to region/limb guys. If they were on base and unavailable for a pfal class schedule.... nothing further needed to be said. Twi could not employ their fear or guilt weaponry on them. It did NOT work.
The boundary lines were set and no amount of twi-wrangling could change it. These military men took their orders from someone "higher" than wierwille. I loved it.
.
So it was a very selective spotlight. Likely moreso on retired military who went corps vs active military who could never fully qualify to be corps due to their military obligations as you stated. Did wierwille/martindale make special concession for these guys to your knowledge?
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I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend
skyrider
Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chos
skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/sh
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skyrider
Yep... it's good to have a "Dr." in-house to raise credibility standards for the cult. LOL
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OldSkool
Its also another majorly stupid policy for running Lord knows how many people the heck away from the way international. They just can't seem to get it right. They bums rush and policy as many people out the doors as they can then send a postcard asking people to come home? Head trip...no?
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Rocky
Empty head...
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skyrider
That's the thing about narcissism.... they don't know when they're "over their skies" until it's too late. They lose judgment on their surroundings... being only tunnel-visioned on what they want to happen.
When it finally dawns on them what did happen... they send out "time to come home? postcards. It's a knee-jerk outfit that never had a whole lot of credibility to begin with.
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Share on other sites
skyrider
When twi-followers are looking for an exit ramp.... GSC is a Godsend. No other splinter group or website offers more than this one. This is a direct approach to getting questions answered that you have been looking for. We handle the tough subjects and twi's hidden underbelly.
Different forums are available. If you are strictly concerned about The Way International, then searching "About the Way" is the forum you'd chose. With 189 pages, there is a lot of ground covered.... but I would recommend scouring thru the first 15 pages. Find a thread that piques your interest. There is so much information that, at times, it might seem overwhelming.
Therefore, treat GSC as you would any one research topic or collateral book. With limited time, pace yourself with a goal in mind. What are your interests, questions or main concern? GSC is an open forum with live discussions coming in from all sides. At times, you might want to pick a couple of posters that seem to give you a perspective that relates to you. Other times, you might choose to read the more combative threads. Happy exploring.
After lurking a while, sign in and join the party.
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chockfull
Here is a living example of “Corban”.
https://www.gotquestions.org/corban.html
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chockfull
Yes she fills the bill in a number of categories.
1. Education - PhD in psychology
2. psych background - social / emotional education
3. BLM - just saying diversity doesn’t hurt to have a black woman on the board with all the old white dudes leading other cults.
All the education was pre TWI though. Because student loan debt.
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OldSkool
All that education and I betcha she does little more than nodd in agreement with the old white dudes.
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chockfull
Probably while she diagnoses them lol. But yeah true.
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OldSkool
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skyrider
Yeah, how often did we encounter that? People get their advanced education or business acumen BEFORE they come on board with twi. Then, twi puts them out there front-and-center.... as if to say. "See...see how God builds and brings forth His people to do mighty things for twi, God's ministry!" Dr. R@wlins had delivered nearly 10,000 babies in her early career.... BEFORE championing twi's cause.
I can't name ONE INDIVIDUAL who came up from the ranks of pfal to corps grad to board of directors who has done anything of significance in the business/professional world. Can you?
Everyone in this category was a tag-on.... a professional, a star in their field BEFORE twi. Therefore, I call twi a "glory-grabber".... someone who in my childhood we referred to as a late-comer, hogging the basketball and wanting the applause when it was a team effort. Twi has always done this. Everybody whom wierwille "promoted" to the trustee level or high offices came up thru the ranks of the obedience servant to wierwille. Nothing more.
This stuff all reeks of hypocrisy and fraud salesmanship. In other words.... snake oil.
.
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waysider
Trophy Mentality
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OldSkool
No doubt. Plus folks like Dr Rawlins were given special status amongst the trustees/directors. I liked Dr Rawlins and enjoyed her classes when I was in-res...but how much anyone wanna bet she had Drambuie in her coffee mug.
Then there's the guys Martindale pushed out there...anyone with a military service career especially. Thinking of S@m Gr@ham in this regard. They try and grab anyone who can give them some form of legitimacy amongst the professional world.
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skyrider
For many years, she got to live out a big portion of her retirement years with adulation because of her status to the trustees/directors. She got first-class treatment of service to her, because of that recognition.... not necessarily for her past professional life. So, she got her reward of schmoozing with the upper tier of twi.
Big whoop. Like where are we commanded in scriptures to pay adulation to man/woman? All of this stuff just reefs of adulation/idolatry. On a "Christian campus" (cough, cough) where was the DAILY thanks and giving to the lord Jesus Christ? Sheesh.
.
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OldSkool
Well, Christ is absent to them, so theres that.
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Rocky
But is GSC enough? Yes, GSC provides answers. Intellectual nourishment. However, since we humans are social creatures, and since belonging is really the need twi satisfied for each of us, can (or does, at least in some cases?) GSC provide some direction on or actual fulfillment of former followers' social/belonging need?
I am already persuaded personally how GSC provides some answers to legitimate questions regarding twi positions contrary to biblical teaching and understanding.
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skyrider
Yes, we look for ways of social belonging.... or at least, most all do. I suppose there is that one individual who sits at his computer screen all day long and darts in and out of various websites.... but I don't. I have family, work, neighbors, charitable groups I support and sometimes church. There is plenty of activity for this guy... totally enjoying life at a slower pace than the last four decades. But I do enjoy the thought-provoking insight and discussions here at GSC.
With the accumulative bounty of backgrounds and experiences here, I doubt that I could find another place like it that would offer such wisdom and insight. Yes, wisdom.... the sum total of learning through the ages, the knowledge gained. One just needs a little patience to slow down and listen (and read).
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Rocky
Wonderful insight. I have no doubt many who separate from the cult will eventually find a tribe to which they feel comfortable belonging. LOL... I spend a lot of time in front of my computer... and with books... and with friends/family at times. My reflections on people's social needs stems from seeing how it's much easier for people to leave twi, at least with less exit trauma (loss of social network, especially) if they see the light at the end of the tunnel.
In contrast, there are those who leave the cult when they are personally fed up. Charlene exquisitely described how that was her journey. As have you.
I'm thankful for the way we can bounce ideas off of each other (not just you and me) and the accumulated bounty of wisdom and insight is much greater than just the sum of 2 plus 2 equaling 4.
Edited by RockyLink to comment
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skyrider
Yes, with the social network of the internet in play... it is "so much easier" to exit twi today than in the 70's, 80's or 90's. Instantly, you can find support and friends scattered across the country through a number of networks (ie. Facebook or Friend Finder here on GSC). Somebody generally knows someone who can lead you to that long lost friend or acquaintance.
Exit trauma is real, but it can be minimized as long as you keep stretching forward. Do not get caught in a trap of despair or depression. The best days could be right before your eyes. But if you exit twi and STILL hold to waybrain nostalgia and doctrine....then the trap of guilt closes in around you.
Reading is good. Humor is good. Walking in the sunshine is good. Getting a dog as a companion is very healthy. LOL Test the waters of new hobbies. Make the precious moments of the present your friend.
.
Edited by skyridertypo
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skyrider
Today is March 4th. To me, it is a significant day. It's the only day on the calendar with a command.... March Forth. The precious moments of our lives are ticking away.
Whatever it is that fuels your gas tank, get busy doing it. Take nothing for granted. Time wasted is time lost. Do not allow a hurtful past steal from a promising present. And, do not allow a promising present overshadow the hope and glory of an eternal future.
I treasure this day, March 4th.... because of what it represents to me. In 1984, I left twi's headquarters with my wife and Vince Finnegan to fly to London, Ontario Canada. Preparations and procedures had already been in play for my wife and I to become the next country coordinators of Canada. Suffice it to say that the last man fell on his face and time was of the essence to replace him immediately.
So, on that day a whole new world opened up to me. Different country. Translation of another language was needed for me (in French Quebec). Metric system. Multi-cultured ethnic groups in every major city.... far more diversified than the U.S. (which seemed new to me in 1984). Language barriers. I was no longer in
Kansas.... er, rural Ohio anymore. LOLLiving there for three years was a thrill of a lifetime. The people and culture were fascinating. My travels led me from the west coast to the east coast, from Vancouver, British Columbia to Moncton, New Brunswick. Spending time with Canadian believers was a treasure that I will cherish a lifetime. Lots of events, fun, laughter, weddings and some funerals. Besides the ministry work, I got to alpine snow ski at Whistler, B.C., tour Banff National Park and resort areas several times and ice skate on the canals in Ottawa, Ontario. Three years of power-packed activity.
So, on this March 4th... I raise my glass to salute my Canadian brethren for welcoming me to their country and their homes. Those moments of treasured time spent will be cherished for the rest of my life.
.
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Rocky
I always think of March Fo(u)rth as Walter Cummins Day. He would always make the joke about how it's the only day which is also a command.
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skyrider
Yes, twi tried to put higher ranked military men in the spotlight.
The exception with military personnel was.... when they were called to duty, their commitment to military service was #1 priority. No messing around. No bowing to twi-leadership. No taking orders from wierwille or martindale. Nope, none of that. These men never needed to kowtow to region/limb guys. If they were on base and unavailable for a pfal class schedule.... nothing further needed to be said. Twi could not employ their fear or guilt weaponry on them. It did NOT work.
The boundary lines were set and no amount of twi-wrangling could change it. These military men took their orders from someone "higher" than wierwille. I loved it.
.
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chockfull
Hey Rocky I would say no GSC is not enough. We are just crowdsourcing recovery here in a community.
It will take concerted effort and IRL support groups overall for good effectiveness.
But crowdsourcing spiritual topics to me is the essence of the body of Christ in action.
Glad to discuss these things with you all.
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OldSkool
So it was a very selective spotlight. Likely moreso on retired military who went corps vs active military who could never fully qualify to be corps due to their military obligations as you stated. Did wierwille/martindale make special concession for these guys to your knowledge?
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