Fiction (novels) can be more powerful than memoir.
Your comment quoted herein has the makings of an incredibly compelling novel.
You mean like?? .... The Hunger Games
Something that shows the exploited individuals' plight and their struggle to overcome? Something that cuts a fine line between the powerful and privileged demonizing the little guy for profit and ultimate rule? Something that signifies a cult-like doctrine being taught to the masses to ensnare them in a trap? Something that appears to offer keys to open doors of knowledge, health, harmony and prosperity.... only, once opened, this door leads one into a dark, blood-red cavern of nightmarish abuse?
Something that shows the exploited individuals' plight and their struggle to overcome? Something that cuts a fine line between the powerful and privileged demonizing the little guy for profit and ultimate rule? Something that signifies a cult-like doctrine being taught to the masses to ensnare them in a trap? Something that appears to offer keys to open doors of knowledge, health, harmony and prosperity.... only, once opened, this door leads one into a dark, blood-red cavern of nightmarish abuse?
Entitled...... The Nightmare Door Has Opened
Yes. The characters will be key.
I was thinking of The Handmaid's Tale, but yes, definitely.
Genuine Biblical principles and guidelines were sorely lacking in the upper levels of twi’s hierarchy. The bedrock principles of true Christianity that they taught us were highly suspect: True genuine wholeness and salvation, nope. True redemption and righteousness thru our lord and savior, Jesus Christ, nope. Genuine cleanliness washed thoroughly and throughly by the blood of the lamb, nope. Genuine sorrow and repentance for the forgiveness of sin, nope.
Wierwille’s doctrine was a long-stemmed glass of red wine laced with poison. Although it looked inviting to drink, it had all the makings of pre-planned deception. If twi really valued us as individuals, as believers, then they would have treated us with respect and reciprocating love. Instead, we were herded around as cattle for the price they could get from us.
Agreed. Wow, the treatment of one another that Jesus SO highlighted... GREAT POINTS!!!
OK... Time for another round of processing after more general cult researching, and reading all of these latest great posts. Thank you all. Crying, journaling, feeling almost unbearable pain, then collecting myself, using my developing critical thinking, then giving voice to the me who wants to come out swinging!!! Onward!! (Comparing twi to Christianity Today's "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill", 25 hours of interviews, the last one of which was 2020 I think... Soooo helpful) Such a better job by some re: some repentance, some restoration, some closure, some genine following of Biblical guidelines!!!)
All of this "self-discovery" is worth the effort to discover one's authentic self, to discover how you were deceived, and to discover the wonders of life going forward.
With the light of open discussion, a multitude of counselors, we begin to see that in twi we were surrounded by false teachers. We had entered their territory where they feast on covetousness following after pernicious ways (causing harm, even death)... where they became traders making merchandise of men.
No longer were we in a world of buying goods and services.... but rather of judgments, unrighteousness and scorn. They held power over us by feigning to care, yet overthrowing our lives into turmoil that brought us deprivation of discovering our true relationship with our lord and mediator, Jesus Christ. Those trappings held us in bondage.
But now.... we are on a clean path. We walk confidently and quickly to victory.
With the light of open discussion, a multitude of counselors, we begin to see that in twi we were surrounded by false teachers. We had entered their territory where they feast on covetousness following after pernicious ways (causing harm, even death)... where they became traders making merchandise of men.
No longer were we in a world of buying goods and services.... but rather of judgments, unrighteousness and scorn. They held power over us by feigning to care, yet overthrowing our lives into turmoil that brought us deprivation of discovering our true relationship with our lord and mediator, Jesus Christ. Those trappings held us in bondage.
But now.... we are on a clean path. We walk confidently and quickly to victory.
They held no power over you. If that's what you really are I am sorry to hear that.
With the evidence that these websites influence those people around our families in The Way International, sites like Grease Spot Cafe remain a hindrance.
Greasespot Cafe is a way for PFAL grads to continue to act out their training, analogous to "defeating the adversary" by making nothing but noise.
Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.
Your one job is to forget. Never mention his name, the weekly who died last century. To disappear into the real world.
When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.
They held no power over you. If that's what you really are I am sorry to hear that.
With the evidence that these websites influence those people around our families in The Way International, sites like Grease Spot Cafe remain a hindrance.
Greasespot Cafe is a way for PFAL grads to continue to act out their training, analogous to "defeating the adversary" by making nothing but noise.
Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.
Your one job is to forget. Never mention his name, the weekly who died last century. To disappear into the real world.
When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
Your post is unclear. To say that "GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately" is false.
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
I am not fighting the way international… I separated from them. I am pointing out their hypocrisy and false teachings.
Why have open forums and healthy discussions and debates if everyone is in agreement? If all are in total groupthink, then what you have is an echo chamber.
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
Well, maybe I just don’t agree with 100 percent of your statements as opposed to being deliberately ignorant.
I personally don’t have blood relatives in. I don’t seek to harm indiscriminately. I don’t really agree with your generalizations.
I do have ex friends in. They pretty much treat me pretty similar to the judgment and shunning that I would experience from blood relatives in.
If I post a statement in good faith, and a blood relative in TWI uses it for nefarious purposes, what recourse do I have? Be hyper sensitive and never post anything negative for fear of it being misused?
I am not fighting the way international… I separated from them. I am pointing out their hypocrisy and false teachings.
Why have open forums and healthy discussions and debates if everyone is in agreement? If all ate in total groupthink, then what you have is an echo chamber.
Yes agree and personally I enjoy kicking around concepts with you my brother.
If I post a statement in good faith, and a blood relative in TWI uses it for nefarious purposes, what recourse do I have?Be hyper sensitive and never post anything negative for fear of it being misused?
I cannot support that. Sorry.
What a strange outcome that would make? If I tip-toed around everything in life so as not to "offend someone".... they would just run roughshod over everything. If NOT offending anyone is the standard practice, then what gives twi the right to go against church orthodoxy?
If one takes that position..... THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS, (contrary to common sense).
I still have a blood relative who is entrenched in Way theology, though not involved with the organization in a physical sense. It's a thin sheet of ice I have to travel sometimes, so I somewhat understand. The Way promoted, and continues to promote, a twisted and harmful way of looking at scriptures and life in general. That can't and shouldn't be denied. We don't have to stand on the roof tops and shout it, but we have to at least acknowledge it. Sometimes when you get old you look in the mirror and wonder, "What the hell happened to me?" GSC helps people answer that question, provided they really want an answer.
Well, maybe I just don’t agree with 100 percent of your statements as opposed to being deliberately ignorant.
I personally don’t have blood relatives in. I don’t seek to harm indiscriminately. I don’t really agree with your generalizations.
I do have ex friends in. They pretty much treat me pretty similar to the judgment and shunning that I would experience from blood relatives in.
If I post a statement in good faith, and a blood relative in TWI uses it for nefarious purposes, what recourse do I have? Be hyper sensitive and never post anything negative for fear of it being misused?
I cannot support that. Sorry.
I can't see an overall positive affect of GSC. It simply exists as does TWI. Maybe it does good. But GSC claiming GSC does good is circular reasoning. I have to look elsewhere.
I highlighted part of your post because I feel it does not reflect what I already said. So we are not talking about the same thing.
I still have a blood relative who is entrenched in Way theology, though not involved with the organization in a physical sense. It's a thin sheet of ice I have to travel sometimes, so I somewhat understand. The Way promoted, and continues to promote, a twisted and harmful way of looking at scriptures and life in general. That can't and shouldn't be denied. We don't have to stand on the roof tops and shout it, but we have to at least acknowledge it. Sometimes when you get old you look in the mirror and wonder, "What the hell happened to me?" GSC helps people answer that question, provided they really want an answer.
That is fine Waysider, and isn't there a way to address that? Be able to connect to those in your peer group without influencing the wrong people?
I can't see an overall positive affect of GSC. It simply exists as does TWI. Maybe it does good. But GSC claiming GSC does good is circular reasoning. I have to look elsewhere.
I highlighted part of your post because I feel it does not reflect what I already said. So we are not talking about the same thing.
I can only speak for myself. The good GSC has done for me is to provide insight into thousands of accounts and details previously hidden to me due to the whitewashing and silencing efforts of TWI.
It has shown me I’m not alone fighting the personal evil impact of that cult on my life.
It provides a mostly uncensored forum for exploring many things affecting life and recovery from a cult.
Theology, philosophy, interpretation of scriptures, emotional intelligence, resilience, cult characteristics and recovery, psychology, self care, and music.
The opening post appears to me to compare Waydale/GSC to TWI and the spin-offs.
If you google "World Population" I think that number shown is much larger than the total PFAL grads. So large in fact PFAL grades divided by world population is essentially zero.
When this much larger group gets this information, what would they do to us?
I can't see an overall positive affect of GSC. It simply exists as does TWI. Maybe it does good. But GSC claiming GSC does good is circular reasoning. I have to look elsewhere.
I highlighted part of your post because I feel it does not reflect what I already said. So we are not talking about the same thing.
I’m curious – where else do you look?
Not seeing an overall positive effect? Are you exaggerating? Or are you talking just about yourself?
Like Soylent Green, Grease Spot Café is made of people– so it’s NOT one voice – but manyvoices – INDIVIDUALS expressing feelings, observations, anecdotes, therapies, etc., - speaking just for myself - it’s done me a lot of good.
For a couple of reasons I disagree with your similar evaluation of TWI and Grease Spot Café. For one thing when a cult-survivor conveys they have the same unreasonably suspicious or mistrustful attitude toward Grease Spot as they do toward TWI, I tend to think they might need to regain confidence in their own cognitive skills.
And the other thing is the difference in agenda - - TWI and Grease Spot are a million miles apart. TWI’s publicly stated agenda on their website looks benign – but underneath the façade are the programs and groupthink dynamics to indoctrinate followers.
Grease Spot’s purpose is to provide a platform for individuals to tell the other side of that cult – there is no censorship – so there’s a mixed bag of input from each Grease Spotter. There might be a gazillion little agendas if you add up why people read and post here.
One of the things I like to do is offer little tidbits of ideas and resources to pique the interest and curiosity of TWI-followers – maybe something will draw them out of that rigid and enslaving mindset...as I said before, that desire to escapemust come from within the person.
I read a fascinating bookChanging Minds: The Art and Science of Changing Our Own and Other Peoples Minds by Howard Gardner . What intrigued me was the author explaining the inner workings of how folks change their minds – this goes much deeper than analyzing external factors like brainwashing, sales gimmicks or browbeating. Gardner talks about these ‘levers’ in our minds - like different research and analysis departments – that an idea must go through and get vetted. When I say vetted - does it pass the smell test? The young and naive do not have well-developed cognitive skills, so they're more likely to fall for scams.
The book even has a chapter that gets into the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus…I read this book AFTER I left TWI, but it helped me understand how TWI was so successful at indoctrinating me. It was by the finesse and sometimes brute force of their manipulative tactics – that they could either sweet talk their way or bully their way through the various mental research and analysis departments.
3 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
A bomb doesn't care who is in its blast. What is unclear?
TWI is indiscriminate like a bomb – it doesn’t care about the lives it destroys. The people of Grease Spot have helped – and continue to help others survive that 'bomb'.
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Charity
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend
skyrider
Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chos
skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/sh
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skyrider
You mean like?? .... The Hunger Games
Something that shows the exploited individuals' plight and their struggle to overcome? Something that cuts a fine line between the powerful and privileged demonizing the little guy for profit and ultimate rule? Something that signifies a cult-like doctrine being taught to the masses to ensnare them in a trap? Something that appears to offer keys to open doors of knowledge, health, harmony and prosperity.... only, once opened, this door leads one into a dark, blood-red cavern of nightmarish abuse?
Entitled...... The Nightmare Door Has Opened
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Rocky
Yes. The characters will be key.
I was thinking of The Handmaid's Tale, but yes, definitely.
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annio
Agreed. Wow, the treatment of one another that Jesus SO highlighted... GREAT POINTS!!!
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skyrider
Keep processing, keep breaking thru barriers -- annio
All of this "self-discovery" is worth the effort to discover one's authentic self, to discover how you were deceived, and to discover the wonders of life going forward.
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skyrider
With the light of open discussion, a multitude of counselors, we begin to see that in twi we were surrounded by false teachers. We had entered their territory where they feast on covetousness following after pernicious ways (causing harm, even death)... where they became traders making merchandise of men.
No longer were we in a world of buying goods and services.... but rather of judgments, unrighteousness and scorn. They held power over us by feigning to care, yet overthrowing our lives into turmoil that brought us deprivation of discovering our true relationship with our lord and mediator, Jesus Christ. Those trappings held us in bondage.
But now.... we are on a clean path. We walk confidently and quickly to victory.
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Bolshevik
They held no power over you. If that's what you really are I am sorry to hear that.
With the evidence that these websites influence those people around our families in The Way International, sites like Grease Spot Cafe remain a hindrance.
Greasespot Cafe is a way for PFAL grads to continue to act out their training, analogous to "defeating the adversary" by making nothing but noise.
Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.
Your one job is to forget. Never mention his name, the weekly who died last century. To disappear into the real world.
When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.
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chockfull
What are these unintended consequences?
Enquiring hindrance site posters want to know.
Wait are you calling yourself out here?
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Bolshevik
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
Edited by BolshevikLink to comment
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skyrider
Your post is unclear. To say that "GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately" is false.
What a broad brush you use.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
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skyrider
I am not fighting the way international… I separated from them. I am pointing out their hypocrisy and false teachings.
Why have open forums and healthy discussions and debates if everyone is in agreement? If all are in total groupthink, then what you have is an echo chamber.
Edited by skyridertypo
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chockfull
Well, maybe I just don’t agree with 100 percent of your statements as opposed to being deliberately ignorant.
I personally don’t have blood relatives in. I don’t seek to harm indiscriminately. I don’t really agree with your generalizations.
I do have ex friends in. They pretty much treat me pretty similar to the judgment and shunning that I would experience from blood relatives in.
If I post a statement in good faith, and a blood relative in TWI uses it for nefarious purposes, what recourse do I have? Be hyper sensitive and never post anything negative for fear of it being misused?
I cannot support that. Sorry.
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chockfull
Yes agree and personally I enjoy kicking around concepts with you my brother.
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skyrider
Totally agree. GSC has been a blessing in every way.
If someone doesn't see the benefits of GSC.... then why are they here? Perhaps, that's the real question that certain individuals need to solve.
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skyrider
What a strange outcome that would make? If I tip-toed around everything in life so as not to "offend someone".... they would just run roughshod over everything. If NOT offending anyone is the standard practice, then what gives twi the right to go against church orthodoxy?
If one takes that position..... THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS, (contrary to common sense).
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waysider
I still have a blood relative who is entrenched in Way theology, though not involved with the organization in a physical sense. It's a thin sheet of ice I have to travel sometimes, so I somewhat understand. The Way promoted, and continues to promote, a twisted and harmful way of looking at scriptures and life in general. That can't and shouldn't be denied. We don't have to stand on the roof tops and shout it, but we have to at least acknowledge it. Sometimes when you get old you look in the mirror and wonder, "What the hell happened to me?" GSC helps people answer that question, provided they really want an answer.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
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Bolshevik
I can't see an overall positive affect of GSC. It simply exists as does TWI. Maybe it does good. But GSC claiming GSC does good is circular reasoning. I have to look elsewhere.
I highlighted part of your post because I feel it does not reflect what I already said. So we are not talking about the same thing.
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Bolshevik
That is fine Waysider, and isn't there a way to address that? Be able to connect to those in your peer group without influencing the wrong people?
Edited by Bolshevikspelling
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Bolshevik
A bomb doesn't care who is in its blast. What is unclear?
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waysider
That's the dilemma I face. Sometime I succeed and sometimes I fail horribly. All I can do is be honest and try.
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chockfull
I can only speak for myself. The good GSC has done for me is to provide insight into thousands of accounts and details previously hidden to me due to the whitewashing and silencing efforts of TWI.
It has shown me I’m not alone fighting the personal evil impact of that cult on my life.
It provides a mostly uncensored forum for exploring many things affecting life and recovery from a cult.
Theology, philosophy, interpretation of scriptures, emotional intelligence, resilience, cult characteristics and recovery, psychology, self care, and music.
I guess ymmv.
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Nathan_Jr
Who are the wrong people?
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Bolshevik
The opening post appears to me to compare Waydale/GSC to TWI and the spin-offs.
If you google "World Population" I think that number shown is much larger than the total PFAL grads. So large in fact PFAL grades divided by world population is essentially zero.
When this much larger group gets this information, what would they do to us?
Edited by Bolshevikspelling - WOW burgers
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waysider
Yum! I think the flies that constantly swarmed them added a delightfully crunchy texture, don't you agree?
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T-Bone
I’m curious – where else do you look?
Not seeing an overall positive effect? Are you exaggerating? Or are you talking just about yourself?
Like Soylent Green, Grease Spot Café is made of people
– so it’s NOT one voice – but many voices – INDIVIDUALS expressing feelings, observations, anecdotes, therapies, etc., - speaking just for myself - it’s done me a lot of good.
For a couple of reasons I disagree with your similar evaluation of TWI and Grease Spot Café. For one thing when a cult-survivor conveys they have the same unreasonably suspicious or mistrustful attitude toward Grease Spot as they do toward TWI, I tend to think they might need to regain confidence in their own cognitive skills.
And the other thing is the difference in agenda - - TWI and Grease Spot are a million miles apart. TWI’s publicly stated agenda on their website looks benign – but underneath the façade are the programs and groupthink dynamics to indoctrinate followers.
Grease Spot’s purpose is to provide a platform for individuals to tell the other side of that cult – there is no censorship – so there’s a mixed bag of input from each Grease Spotter. There might be a gazillion little agendas if you add up why people read and post here.
One of the things I like to do is offer little tidbits of ideas and resources to pique the interest and curiosity of TWI-followers – maybe something will draw them out of that rigid and enslaving mindset...as I said before, that desire to escape must come from within the person.
I read a fascinating book Changing Minds: The Art and Science of Changing Our Own and Other Peoples Minds by Howard Gardner . What intrigued me was the author explaining the inner workings of how folks change their minds – this goes much deeper than analyzing external factors like brainwashing, sales gimmicks or browbeating. Gardner talks about these ‘levers’ in our minds - like different research and analysis departments – that an idea must go through and get vetted. When I say vetted - does it pass the smell test? The young and naive do not have well-developed cognitive skills, so they're more likely to fall for scams.
The book even has a chapter that gets into the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus…I read this book AFTER I left TWI, but it helped me understand how TWI was so successful at indoctrinating me. It was by the finesse and sometimes brute force of their manipulative tactics – that they could either sweet talk their way or bully their way through the various mental research and analysis departments.
TWI is indiscriminate like a bomb – it doesn’t care about the lives it destroys. The people of Grease Spot have helped – and continue to help others survive that 'bomb'.
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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