The ages you cited in your insanity on steroids thread were indeed filled with pressure (John 16:33) in my life. My only child was born in the early portion of that era. Those pressures exposed weaknesses in my life and motivated me to search and to seek out wisdom well beyond what Wierwille/TWI taught (Proverbs 2:1-5). I'm most thankful for the path that I've been blessed to have before me since my youth. My first "professional" job entailed about three years of long-distance telecommunication in a support function for the USAF. I have no doubt that's why I am as comfortable as I have been over the years posting my thoughts on this forum. And hopefully, my travails in and since TWI have lent insight to some of what I post.
Indeed, to my knowledge (somewhat enhanced by the world wide web), you are correct about GSC's role as the sole point of reference for exposing the darkness we endured from the cult. My thought at the moment is Trancechat and Waydale, though the impact of each was limited, were important stepping stones from which GSC learned. The moderators here have been extremely important in maintaining the movement forward.
Even now, the incremental nature of increasing knowledge and understanding are apparent to me. On the thread Promised Relief: Broken Promises, earlier today I synthesized some of the development of my understanding of said increase. I also greatly appreciate how your insight, Skyrider, both rings true and enhances my understanding of said experience. God forbid that was your last post, though we have no control over how long we will live.
Good points, Rocky
I always read with interest what you post. Obviously, you continue to enhance your knowledge by the vast amounts of books that you read. It continues to be one of your many attributes that sets you apart from many. Thanks for your inspiring example.
As you made note..... enhanced by the world wide web, and this site in particular, provides us with exponential insight. Yes, I remember Trancechat as well. At the time, I was scrambling to pay the bills and learn more computer skills. My handle was Harvestime......ie, wheat harvest time. But honestly, I don't think that I posted more than two dozen times on that site. It was all too new to me.... and as a former Limb guy, twi had no desire or foresight to encourage any use of the computer throughout the 90's. LOL
Like you and many others, I stand firm on GSC's mission "To tell the other side of the story of twi's deception and sordid past." It seems clear to me that when a poster like Charity gives her personal account of 30 years "without a church home"....but after spending time on GSC threads, has now found a church where she feels at home is a huge obstacle to overcome. It speaks volumes for GSC's presence.
Thanks Rocky....for posting your comments from the Promised Relief: Broken Promises thread. Appreciate it.
When I exited twi in 1998, one of the first things I did was resolve to hold no sign of guilt. Why should I hold any guilt [unearned] over my own head and heart? After all, THEY were the deceivers, the hucksters, the opportunists living off my sacrifice to serve twi. Yet, guilt is one of their many weapons. With incremental steps, each class gives them, they think, more access to govern our decisions and life. Remember.....having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.'
One is quickly able to put twi's leadership at arms-length from any more encroachment the minute the weapon of guilt is removed!! With luminous clarity and serenity, one begins to see that twi holds NO POWER over you unless you allow it. Certainly, untangling this whole mess is a process.... but, for me, the beginning step was removing this guilt-weapon from further attacks on my conscience.....
How did I become susceptible, and therefore accessible, to these hucksters in the first place? That was THE question that I needed to figure out to stop others from gaining entrance into my life.
Somewhere in the past, when my own understanding of present reality clashed with the authoritative assertions of others.... I renounced my rational reasoning and principles. At the crossroads of the choice between "this is what I know" and "they say" I chose the authority of those whom I deemed to be more spiritual on subjects I did not understand. Simply put, I chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe their statements as truth rather than to think and deliberate. My surrender of self began at this juncture in life.
From there, I allowed myself to feel intimidated to their "superior knowledge." Plunging headlong into their twigs and classes, I was now at the mercy of half-truths and assertions accepted as spiritual faith. At times, held captive by fear and confusion... my feelings of acceptance became my only guide and my remnant of personal identity. No longer was I grounded in my authentic-self, but attached to a group identity, a herd mentality.
Yet, year by year I saw red flags that alerted me to authoritarian hypocrisy. Wierwille violated many of the principles he taught. And, his demeanor off-stage in confrontations with the way corps were far different that his smooth on-stage homiletics. Was this man, this mystic, driven by an urge to deceive, to impress, and to cheat the consciousness of others? Was he really 1) "the teacher, 2) the man of God, 3) our father in the word, and 4) a patriarch and ruler of his tribe?" With each new heightened title.... my mind answered unequivocally and emphatically, "No, he was not!"
Every petulant dictator is a mystic, and every mystic is a potential, power-hungry dictator. He craves obedience from his followers, not their agreement. He desires that they surrender their consciousness to his assertions, his edicts with no reciprocal allegiance to theirs. He works deceptively to deal with his followers by means of faith and force.... disguising both in the process. And, in truth.... a dictator finds no satisfaction in their consent if he must earn it by facts and reason. Wierwille wanted compliance at a whim..... or else, hit the door and be gone with you.
My journey into the unknown started with consent. I gave submission in hopes of spiritual attainment, but found endless caverns of doubt and questions. I had lost my way in life, because these fraudsters were selling snake oil. And, I have come to believe that wierwille was a malignant narcissist who relished the spectacle of suffering, misery, subservience, poverty and fear; these gave him a feeling of triumph, a proof of his own miserable existence. This sociopath felt superior over others by inflicting emotional, psychological, and financial pain and destruction. In the end, wierwille epitomized his opening statements in pfal on John 10:10..... except therein, wierwille was the thief who came not but for to steal, and to kill and to destroy whereby he stood in sharp contrast to living life more abundantly in Jesus Christ.
The entire comment posted above (not just my quote thereof) synthesized and concisely encapsules the (brainwashing) process in the mind of a TWI follower.
From wordnik dot com: [brainwashing is] "The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion [i.e. The Word of God is the Will of God; a 12 session class with forced NON-questioning obedience; ROA yearly "music festival"; annual WOW outreach program; four-year Way Corps "training"/indoctrination program ostensibly to teach spiritual growth and leadership skills etc.], in order to develop a specific belief or motivation [and a fully committed cadre of "leaders."]
In The Road Less Traveled, M. Scott Peck described and teaches a reader to reflect on her/his own road as a way to practice self-therapy. Our brother Skyrider demonstrated exactly that in his comment above.
Critics, initially most prominently from other religious traditions within Christianity, labeled the brainwashing and sometimes described it but rarely examined its mechanisms in the exquisite detail as has been done in the thousands of posts/comments on GSC.
This thread feels to me like a breakthrough synthesis for understanding Wierwille's intended subculture (cult) and its successors/spinoffs. Is it necessary to identify Wierwille's initial motivation as godly or not? IMO, not. It IS possible, however, to discern by its (and his) fruits.
Realization in a person's life may become problematic. Recognition may challenge such persons' sense of belonging or identity (sense of self).
For me, this journey began with the 1986-7 (mass?) exodus from twi as a result of letter signed by several former twi leaders. My next step was to continue home fellowship around the same teachings, followed in the early 1990s when I first read M. Scott Peck's books. Eventually, life interrupted the home bible fellowships because they had been decades of the same, ultimately boring, routine.
Over the following three decades, I have read hundreds of books as I embraced the message in the first 5 verses of Proverbs 2.
if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
Among the things I found, psychological understanding is consistent with knowledge of God, even when I find it outside the bible.
Anyway, I digress (hopefully to avoid boring you).
How did I become susceptible, and therefore accessible, to these hucksters in the first place?
For ME, it started with family upbringing and Catholic schools. IOW, I was ultimately conditioned to accept claims on the PFLAP green card because TWI came from within cultural framework that was familiar to me. A military WOW wandered, on October 31, 1974 into a fellowship in the Lajes Field (Azores) base chapel. He and I become friends. In June/July 75, I first took PFLAP. In August 75, my first ROA and one-year commitment as a PFLAP salesman.
My initial military salary in 1973 was the huge sum of $307/month plus room and board. I started saving because I had plenty left over after living expenses. By the time I took PFLAP, I had saved more than $1k. Besides using some of it to travel to Ohio in 75, I donated much of my savings to TWI. The indoctrination had begun.
My big takeaway is the speaker declaring there is plenty of evidence power does change a person's brain.
Because the clip is primarily about political power/systems, I won't post it here.
However, with more than two decades of posts on GSC, it can be reasonably discerned from examination of this website how that was truly the case with Wierwille, Martindale, and Rivenbark.
This thread feels to me like a breakthrough synthesis for understanding Wierwille's intended subculture (cult) and its successors/spinoffs. Is it necessary to identify Wierwille's initial motivation as godly or not? IMO, not. It IS possible, however, to discern by its (and his) fruits.
I think so too.
Whether or not we can identify wierwille's initial motivation as godly or not.... we certainly experienced its deception and exploitation. And, now some 38 years after his death, we've witnessed its collapse and downward spiral. By every measure, twi is a cult.
For ME, it started with family upbringing and Catholic schools. IOW, I was ultimately conditioned to accept claims on the PFLAP green card because TWI came from within cultural framework that was familiar to me. A military WOW wandered, on October 31, 1974 into a fellowship in the Lajes Field (Azores) base chapel. He and I become friends. In June/July 75, I first took PFLAP. In August 75, my first ROA and one-year commitment as a PFLAP salesman.
My initial military salary in 1973 was the huge sum of $307/month plus room and board. I started saving because I had plenty left over after living expenses. By the time I took PFLAP, I had saved more than $1k. Besides using some of it to travel to Ohio in 75, I donated much of my savings to TWI. The indoctrination had begun.
In the summer of 1973.... my high school classmate encouraged me to visit a local missionary pastor who often flew to Central America for his outreach missions. My classmate was an avid church-goer and I was not. We had several, deep conversations about Jesus as Lord and he felt compelled to help me before he left for the Navy. Little did I realize what was in store for me. Upon arrival at his home, there were only four of us in attendance and this missionary pastor wasted no time before he delved right into the Scriptures. Romans 10:9,10 [the new birth] was his starting point.
From there, he handled aspects of sins and shortcomings and one's old man nature. Another 15 minutes of verses.... all of which would cast the central theme of all Scripture upon Jesus Christ, lord, savior and mediator. Then he asked me if I would confess Jesus as Lord Jesus to receive the new birth. Timidly, I spoke out loud and confessed him as lord. At this point, he stood, approached me and laid hands on me. After ministering the new birth and the other two guys praying.... I "felt" this rush of energy/power from the crown of my head to the tips of my toes. To me, I took this experience as the in-filling of holy spirit.
Days later, my friend left for the Navy and soon I headed off to college. So, for me.... I was born again BEFORE ever hearing about twi or pfal. I never credited twi with leading me to the new birth; I credited my classmate and this missionary pastor. Had I gotten more scriptural understanding before leaving my home town.... perhaps, I never would have been susceptible to twi's hucksters. Who knows? I do know that God has had His hand on my life before AND after twi. No doubt or guilt of this has crossed my mind. Perhaps, that's why when the scales fell from my eyes.... there was no doubt I was released from twi's bondage.
My journey into the unknown [way corps training] started with consent. I gave submission in hopes of spiritual attainment, but found endless caverns of doubt and questions.
Going in residence way corps was journeying into the unknown. We started our training at a campus of their choosing. After 3-4 months, there was a “block rotation.” Dozens of corps were shuffled off to another campus depending upon the needs of the ministry…. especially the corps who had experience in plumbing, carpentry, electrical, floor installations, landscaping, etc. Daily schedules could change at the drop of a hat. If confrontation was doled out at lunchtime…. It didn’t matter if everyone’s schedule got backed up one hour. Time was relative to the circumstances at hand.
No choice of classes. No grades. No achievement by merit. What a “college.”
Everyone got a passing grade. Everyone received public confrontations. Everyone saw each other’s dirty laundry. Everyone failed in their “Light Bearer” experience.
Upon graduation, it wasn’t an absolute that we’d even get an Associate’s Degree….. because “The College of Emporia” had no status for accreditation. If we got this degree, it had to come from the Rome City Indiana Campus. Shady to say the least. So yeah…. this was a journey into the unknown. LOL
We were not required to take assignments when we graduated… but then we were. Bait-and-switch decisions and policies surfaces all around us. And, if you complained, then what were you thinking that you signed up for? We simply didn’t know for sure. We were zealous youngsters on Manipulation Road with a destination known as Exploitation Extravaganza.
Twi had set the snare and we had fallen into it. Through assertions of spiritual attainment and eternal rewards, we were caught into their trap and yet, fearful of trying to escape.
When nearly 80% of the way corps existed en masse in 1986…. it was a major blow to twi’s growing power. Twi ushered in damage control to set the snare again. Did they go thru the godly steps of sorrow leading to repentance? Nope. Martindale and trustees leveled a volley of accusations against these men and splinter groups that defied their heavy-handed authority. And, the wheels of the bus go ‘round and ‘round.
GreaseSpot is the first, and ONLY, place to offer clear and concise markings on how to escape from twi’s trappings. All other places and splinters make concessions around wierwille.
GreaseSpot is the first, and ONLY, place to offer clear and concise markings on how to escape from twi’s trappings. All other places and splinters make concessions around wierwille.
Perhaps the title of a new subforum can be distilled from this statement.
Upon graduation, it wasn’t an absolute that we’d even get an Associate’s Degree….. because “The College of Emporia” had no status for accreditation. If we got this degree, it had to come from the Rome City Indiana Campus. Shady to say the least. So yeah…. this was a journey into the unknown. LOL
Rome City was bull-$hit too.
after in-residence I go to my field assignment - this is in 86 - after Patriarch paper - so I figure while I’m in this city I’ll get a resume together - already thinking about leaving TWI… I go to a professional resume service and as I’m giving them all my info he looks up Way College of Biblical Research Indiana Campus in this big book and informs me they are not accredited! Well that just knocked me for a loop . Those lying thieving weasels.
after in-residence I go to my field assignment - this is in 86 - after Patriarch paper - so I figure while I’m in this city I’ll get a resume together - already thinking about leaving TWI… I go to a professional resume service and as I’m giving them all my info he looks up Way College of Biblical Research Indiana Campus in this big book and informs me they are not accredited! Well that just knocked me for a loop . Those lying thieving weasels.
Yes well the non accredited nature of the so called college the way corpse was built upon had very few educated people. There were virtually no PhD or ThD doctorate holders from accredited programs on staff. Don Wierwille had I believe a doctorate in education - the thesis he presented for it was on the transformation of emporia. The people with more advanced degrees were in non-related fields.
VPs “doctoral college” were a couple of guys in a house with mail in essay assignments. So the founder wasn’t supportive of giving any credence to others with legit doctorates with respect to allowing them space to function. Every single case of more experience and advanced degrees ran up against the stone wall of VPs ego and thus parted ways.
So the essence of what you have in the trained leadership is a bunch of non accredited teachers not holding legitimate classes with peer reviewed educational material but rather and endless re-search into trying to find some greater meaning in sermon notes in collaterals. The classes are Collateral Brainwash 101, 102, and the 102 lab - Lightbearers put a PFlappy class together in a week or two.
The output of that is a bunch of blind leading the blind hardcore salesmen of a product, not an educated spiritual person in the sense of fulfilling any standard curriculum for a bachelors in theology.
Putting any of that on any resume and any other Christian org will ghost you immediately and your presumed accomplishments are met at best with a puzzled look and a question how any of that might apply in the real world.
Putting any of that on any resume and any other Christian org will ghost you immediately and your presumed accomplishments are met at best with a puzzled look and a question how any of that might apply in the real world.
Yup - that’s why I never did put that on my resume. Matter of fact the only time I’ve listed that was on job applications in the security industry - since you have to give an account of extended periods - and a few of the jobs I’ve worked at do a thorough vetting process at the state and federal level…never had it be an issue - and occasionally with some supervisors and coworkers it was a point of interest - and I’m thankful for Grease Spot giving me a chance to get over the stigma of being in a cult and ‘rehearsing’ my lessons learned from bad experiences…never had anyone treat me like I was a weirdo…and with a few I actually got into some cool philosophical and spiritual talks.
Yup - that’s why I never did put that on my resume.
And, that is why so many of the guys I knew skipped past the big company/corporate scene and did self-employment..... painting, landscaping, flooring, roofing, window cleaning, car detailing or sales. All of this got jumpstarted when wierwille demanded corps attend corps week AND roa each year. At the time, there just didn't seem to be many companies out there that gave their young employees 3 weeks vacation time EACH YEAR.... and welcomed you back with open arms. Travel time to Ohio each year could be a real bi+ch.
Add, *more vacation time* needed to visit family, weddings, funerals and baby births.... if you even had an "earthly family" (cough, cough) that you loved and wanted to spend time with. I swear... the narcissist-in-chief never had any empathy for our plight as corps grads. We were simply used and exploited to the max... and then, if obedience waned, discarded. Good riddance!
Putting any of that on any resume and any other Christian org will ghost you immediately and your presumed accomplishments are met at best with a puzzled look and a question how any of that might apply in the real world.
Classes and twi-programs were trappings, for sure..... but so was the repetitive nature of attending Sunday Teaching Services. Back in the day at headquarters, we often had Sunday morning fellowships in the BRC or under the apple trees (on nice summer days).... only to turn around and throw on a suit for Sunday Night 5pm. Apparently, as time marched on, the 5pm Service was moved to 3pm..... to accommodate trustees and emeritus going to bed earlier....er, for travel time extended to out-of-town guests.
Sunday Teaching Reading Service has evolved because every "teacher" became so brain-dead boring with no exciting input or examples from their own lives. No personal testimonies of God-power in action. Besides, Rosalie didn't trust said teacher from going off-script and the pfal-messaging got garbled. So, reading was just going to have to suffice. The Monotony was Killing Me
The butt-brigade ushers made sure that young corps had their butts in front row seats 10 minutes before meetings/sts started.... while they sat near exits and got up and down. Of course, emeritus corps and faithful old timers got choice seating and sat near the back row
Each Sunday.... going thru the motions, sleepwalking thru life.
No one WANTS to "live life" like that.... unless you're a dead-head cultist. It just ain't right. It's a mental trap with lethargic implications. It sets a pattern in your brain cells of low expectations and a God that has no power. But a staffer must comply, because someone has got to sit in those seats. God knows, most who've trodden this path for 5-15 years feel like the siren has gone off and one is led to the train station shipped off to cult camps. Why not have personal testimonies at STS??.... because there are NO vivid, personal testimonies. It's just dead-pan Jan reading her approved "teaching." Week after week, the monotony drones on.
Break free from this trapping.... and spend a few Sundays at the nearby lake.
No one WANTS to "live life" like that.... unless you're a dead-head cultist. It just ain't right. It's a mental trap with lethargic implications. It sets a pattern in your brain cells of low expectations and a God that has no power. But a staffer must comply, because someone has got to sit in those seats. God knows, most who've trodden this path for 5-15 years feel like the siren has gone off and one is led to the train station shipped off to cult camps. Why not have personal testimonies at STS??.... because there are NO vivid, personal testimonies. It's just dead-pan Jan reading her approved "teaching." Week after week, the monotony drones on.
Break free from this trapping.... and spend a few Sundays at the nearby lake.
Frankly, that sounds like the making or muse for short stories, or novels, or perhaps an episode or two of the Twilight Zone.
Edited by Rocky Clarifying (hopefully) the prospective nature of my comment
Classes and twi-programs were trappings, for sure..... but so was the repetitive nature of attending Sunday Teaching Services.
And.... so was the repetitive nature of Rock of Ages and all "Advanced Class Specials." As corps, we were required to be suited up and ready to go long before the meetings started. I always considered *dress protocol* of wearing a coat and tie for meetings at roa, in a hot, muddy cornfield, a cruel joke. It was so damn impractical and stupid. I remember wierwille's "reasoning" for this protocol was..... we wear our best, because God's Word is being represented. And, sure.... wierwille was dressed in a suit at the podium.... with a small air-conditioning unit installed in the podium to keep him nice and cool.
To me, without the presence of God rocking the place.... every big meeting became a herd-fest.
Even the "healing service at roa" became a fizzle when wierwille simply stood at the podium and called for advanced class and corps grads to come forward and minister to those in need. I was SO disappointed. Hypocrisy was at the highest levels of twi.... starting at the top of the pyramid. Which, of course, was no surprise to anyone who did a thorough reading of the four gospels. Jesus always stood against the leaders of the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and scribes. They were the impeders of true deliverance to the people.
So, too, were the trustees and emeritus trustees. Setting forth meetings and forms of godliness, but denying the power thereof. These forms of godliness, attending all these stupid meetings, were the trappings of a cult. Instead of placing Jesus Christ in his rightful place, at the right-hand of the throne of all true power and deliverance... we were serving idols by attending these bloviating herd-fests. Even to this very day.... they blather on, unfazed by selling a product that doesn't deliver. No matter. They pat themselves on the back thinking that they are about the Lord's work.... when even a scant reading of the Book of John shows that Jesus was out and about amongst the people one-on-one.
As I've stated before....imo, none of this cult stuff works without the guilt factor. If people would step back and apply simple discernment and logic, they'd see that after decades of this, it doesn't come near the praise and worship services of God-loving churches. Apparently, wierwille's derogatory proclamations of church denominations in pfal still holds power over their heads. Shouldn't everyone enjoy sitting in a stone-cold meeting to learn greek and aramaic words that you'll probably forget in a week.
As I've stated before....imo, none of this cult stuff works without the guilt factor. If people would step back and apply simple discernment and logic, they'd see that after decades of this, it doesn't come near the praise and worship services of God-loving churches. Apparently, wierwille's derogatory proclamations of church denominations in pfal still holds power over their heads.
Wonderful insight. Indeed, it's likely guilt and fear still enchain many. I hope they would begin to imagine life and Christianity differently than the constant grind of "we're right and everyone else proclaiming love for God is sinister." It's a depressing mental framework PFLAP, Wierwille and the insane subCULTure they established. What happened to freedom in Christ?
Wonderful insight. Indeed, it's likely guilt and fear still enchain many. I hope they would begin to imagine life and Christianity differently than the constant grind of "we're right and everyone else proclaiming love for God is sinister." It's a depressing mental framework PFLAP, Wierwille and the insane subCULTure they established. What happened to freedom in Christ?
IDK, Rocky.... it's like, freedom in Christ got them to come into the store [church or cult], but guilt and fear keeps them coming back.
If people would just go out and live this creed, then church pastors and cult leaders might be out of a job. So, with each sermon there's a snippet of guilt/fear slipped in (just enough) that most people never notice it. But high-demand churches and/or cults keep adding another spoonful to the next sermon to ensure a steady flow of them return.
If I was wanting to figure it out now, I'd be wanting to learn from John Pavlovitz. He spent 25 years as a pastor and became disillusioned with the church. But he still writes, still ministers, and has found ways to subsist.
If I was wanting to figure it out now, I'd be wanting to learn from John Pavlovitz. He spent 25 years as a pastor and became disillusioned with the church. But he still writes, still ministers, and has found ways to subsist.
How about this business/church model?
Change the “requirements” for attendance from weekly to monthly. Send out a decree to your congregation that it is NO longer needed or required to attend church services every Sunday…. only the first Sunday of every month. God honors what's in your heart.... not the activity of weekly church attendance. In fact, if they do show up on those “other Sundays” the church doors will be locked.
Therefore, prepare them with instructions on how this new model will affect their lives. For example, these monthly services will now be 2 - 2 1/2 hours in length…. where most of the congregants will receive the “meat” of the Scriptures. Newcomers will need to attend a different session, a side-service, to learn the basic truths. Children's Fellowship will be allotted a variety of activities, play time and breaks. We will adjust as needed. No messing around. We treat the Scriptures with honor and respect.
On the three other Sundays, spend quality time with your family, loved ones and friends: Online help and support will be available Tuesday thru Friday, 9am-4pm: Senior pastors and associate leaders will monitor this website for questions, support and announcements. With this new model…. we believe that it will be of greater support than weekly services wherein families, who have time constraints and challenging lives, will be able to slow down, rest and be invigorated as they live this FREEDOM IN CHRIST. For indeed, he is truly our mediator, intercessor and advocate.
Enjoy this newfound liberty in Christ. God bless you all.
Note: In addition, if the church has kitchen facilities, break-out rooms, conference rooms and/or a gym..... information will be forthcoming as to when these areas will be available. Suggestions are welcomed.
Change the “requirements” for attendance from weekly to monthly. Send out a decree to your congregation that it is NO longer needed or required to attend church services every Sunday…. only the first Sunday of every month. God honors what's in your heart.... not the activity of weekly church attendance. In fact, if they do show up on those “other Sundays” the church doors will be locked.
Therefore, prepare them with instructions on how this new model will affect their lives. For example, these monthly services will now be 2 - 2 1/2 hours in length…. where most of the congregants will receive the “meat” of the Scriptures. Newcomers will need to attend a different session, a side-service, to learn the basic truths. Children's Fellowship will be allotted a variety of activities, play time and breaks. We will adjust as needed. No messing around. We treat the Scriptures with honor and respect.
On the three other Sundays, spend quality time with your family, loved ones and friends: Online help and support will be available Tuesday thru Friday, 9am-4pm: Senior pastors and associate leaders will monitor this website for questions, support and announcements. With this new model…. we believe that it will be of greater support than weekly services wherein families, who have time constraints and challenging lives, will be able to slow down, rest and be invigorated as they live this FREEDOM IN CHRIST. For indeed, he is truly our mediator, intercessor and advocate.
Enjoy this newfound liberty in Christ. God bless you all.
Note: In addition, if the church has kitchen facilities, break-out rooms, conference rooms and/or a gym..... information will be forthcoming as to when these areas will be available. Suggestions are welcomed.
.
The Christian church I grew up in (middle and high school) basically was a full court basketball court with a stage at the end. They had stacked chairs along the walls that were reset every Sunday. The church was built to serve the community first, then denominational needs second. I revisited the church within the last 5 years. It was too late to reconnect with people I knew - they were kind but I had made my choices and my high school best friend who was the pastors son had died in a car crash a decade ago. The pastor also had passed.
What I saw was that all of their office buildings had scheduled meetings for probably 15 to 20 different community interest groups who all used their offices for free for meetings. That was still functioning according to the original idea when I was there.
I like your ideas about a modern approach to a church. That would be a great church plant idea to function with less activity and more depth.
Calvary chapel has an interesting approach. They do only exegetical teachings not topical. So basically the sermon titles are Bible books or sections only. I enjoy those services occasionally.
Also the music ministries out there in churches are talented. One of the churches I occasionally attend has a Juliard grad leading up the music ministry and he is full of innovative ideas. He leads the worship service basically except the sermon part.
I think freedom in Christ is kind of like freedom in America. It is an ideal and an idea but you have to decide how you will live those freedoms for yourself.
It’s certainly is NOT a meal ticket for a shyster. Although too often in modern cults and modern churches it is exactly that.
Take your freedom seriously and exercise it because when you don’t that is when you forfeit your freedom.
The Christian church I grew up in (middle and high school) basically was a full court basketball court with a stage at the end. They had stacked chairs along the walls that were reset every Sunday. The church was built to serve the community first, then denominational needs second. I revisited the church within the last 5 years. It was too late to reconnect with people I knew - they were kind but I had made my choices and my high school best friend who was the pastors son had died in a car crash a decade ago. The pastor also had passed.
What I saw was that all of their office buildings had scheduled meetings for probably 15 to 20 different community interest groups who all used their offices for free for meetings. That was still functioning according to the original idea when I was there.
I like your ideas about a modern approach to a church. That would be a great church plant idea to function with less activity and more depth.
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Charity
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend
skyrider
Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chos
skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/sh
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skyrider
Good points, Rocky
I always read with interest what you post. Obviously, you continue to enhance your knowledge by the vast amounts of books that you read. It continues to be one of your many attributes that sets you apart from many. Thanks for your inspiring example.
As you made note..... enhanced by the world wide web, and this site in particular, provides us with exponential insight. Yes, I remember Trancechat as well. At the time, I was scrambling to pay the bills and learn more computer skills. My handle was Harvestime......ie, wheat harvest time. But honestly, I don't think that I posted more than two dozen times on that site. It was all too new to me.... and as a former Limb guy, twi had no desire or foresight to encourage any use of the computer throughout the 90's. LOL
Like you and many others, I stand firm on GSC's mission "To tell the other side of the story of twi's deception and sordid past." It seems clear to me that when a poster like Charity gives her personal account of 30 years "without a church home"....but after spending time on GSC threads, has now found a church where she feels at home is a huge obstacle to overcome. It speaks volumes for GSC's presence.
Thanks Rocky....for posting your comments from the Promised Relief: Broken Promises thread. Appreciate it.
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skyrider
How did I become susceptible, and therefore accessible, to these hucksters in the first place? That was THE question that I needed to figure out to stop others from gaining entrance into my life.
Somewhere in the past, when my own understanding of present reality clashed with the authoritative assertions of others.... I renounced my rational reasoning and principles. At the crossroads of the choice between "this is what I know" and "they say" I chose the authority of those whom I deemed to be more spiritual on subjects I did not understand. Simply put, I chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe their statements as truth rather than to think and deliberate. My surrender of self began at this juncture in life.
From there, I allowed myself to feel intimidated to their "superior knowledge." Plunging headlong into their twigs and classes, I was now at the mercy of half-truths and assertions accepted as spiritual faith. At times, held captive by fear and confusion... my feelings of acceptance became my only guide and my remnant of personal identity. No longer was I grounded in my authentic-self, but attached to a group identity, a herd mentality.
Yet, year by year I saw red flags that alerted me to authoritarian hypocrisy. Wierwille violated many of the principles he taught. And, his demeanor off-stage in confrontations with the way corps were far different that his smooth on-stage homiletics. Was this man, this mystic, driven by an urge to deceive, to impress, and to cheat the consciousness of others? Was he really 1) "the teacher, 2) the man of God, 3) our father in the word, and 4) a patriarch and ruler of his tribe?" With each new heightened title.... my mind answered unequivocally and emphatically, "No, he was not!"
Every petulant dictator is a mystic, and every mystic is a potential, power-hungry dictator. He craves obedience from his followers, not their agreement. He desires that they surrender their consciousness to his assertions, his edicts with no reciprocal allegiance to theirs. He works deceptively to deal with his followers by means of faith and force.... disguising both in the process. And, in truth.... a dictator finds no satisfaction in their consent if he must earn it by facts and reason. Wierwille wanted compliance at a whim..... or else, hit the door and be gone with you.
My journey into the unknown started with consent. I gave submission in hopes of spiritual attainment, but found endless caverns of doubt and questions. I had lost my way in life, because these fraudsters were selling snake oil. And, I have come to believe that wierwille was a malignant narcissist who relished the spectacle of suffering, misery, subservience, poverty and fear; these gave him a feeling of triumph, a proof of his own miserable existence. This sociopath felt superior over others by inflicting emotional, psychological, and financial pain and destruction. In the end, wierwille epitomized his opening statements in pfal on John 10:10..... except therein, wierwille was the thief who came not but for to steal, and to kill and to destroy whereby he stood in sharp contrast to living life more abundantly in Jesus Christ.
Peace to all.
.
Edited by skyridertypos
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Rocky
The entire comment posted above (not just my quote thereof) synthesized and concisely encapsules the (brainwashing) process in the mind of a TWI follower.
From wordnik dot com: [brainwashing is] "The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion [i.e. The Word of God is the Will of God; a 12 session class with forced NON-questioning obedience; ROA yearly "music festival"; annual WOW outreach program; four-year Way Corps "training"/indoctrination program ostensibly to teach spiritual growth and leadership skills etc.], in order to develop a specific belief or motivation [and a fully committed cadre of "leaders."]
In The Road Less Traveled, M. Scott Peck described and teaches a reader to reflect on her/his own road as a way to practice self-therapy. Our brother Skyrider demonstrated exactly that in his comment above.
Critics, initially most prominently from other religious traditions within Christianity, labeled the brainwashing and sometimes described it but rarely examined its mechanisms in the exquisite detail as has been done in the thousands of posts/comments on GSC.
This thread feels to me like a breakthrough synthesis for understanding Wierwille's intended subculture (cult) and its successors/spinoffs. Is it necessary to identify Wierwille's initial motivation as godly or not? IMO, not. It IS possible, however, to discern by its (and his) fruits.
Realization in a person's life may become problematic. Recognition may challenge such persons' sense of belonging or identity (sense of self).
For me, this journey began with the 1986-7 (mass?) exodus from twi as a result of letter signed by several former twi leaders. My next step was to continue home fellowship around the same teachings, followed in the early 1990s when I first read M. Scott Peck's books. Eventually, life interrupted the home bible fellowships because they had been decades of the same, ultimately boring, routine.
Over the following three decades, I have read hundreds of books as I embraced the message in the first 5 verses of Proverbs 2.
if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
Among the things I found, psychological understanding is consistent with knowledge of God, even when I find it outside the bible.
Anyway, I digress (hopefully to avoid boring you).
I'll echo skyrider's close:
Peace to all.
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Rocky
For ME, it started with family upbringing and Catholic schools. IOW, I was ultimately conditioned to accept claims on the PFLAP green card because TWI came from within cultural framework that was familiar to me. A military WOW wandered, on October 31, 1974 into a fellowship in the Lajes Field (Azores) base chapel. He and I become friends. In June/July 75, I first took PFLAP. In August 75, my first ROA and one-year commitment as a PFLAP salesman.
My initial military salary in 1973 was the huge sum of $307/month plus room and board. I started saving because I had plenty left over after living expenses. By the time I took PFLAP, I had saved more than $1k. Besides using some of it to travel to Ohio in 75, I donated much of my savings to TWI. The indoctrination had begun.
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Rocky
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. Is that only or primarily a cliché?
I just heard a Big Think YT clip on the subject.
My big takeaway is the speaker declaring there is plenty of evidence power does change a person's brain.
Because the clip is primarily about political power/systems, I won't post it here.
However, with more than two decades of posts on GSC, it can be reasonably discerned from examination of this website how that was truly the case with Wierwille, Martindale, and Rivenbark.
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skyrider
I think so too.
Whether or not we can identify wierwille's initial motivation as godly or not.... we certainly experienced its deception and exploitation. And, now some 38 years after his death, we've witnessed its collapse and downward spiral. By every measure, twi is a cult.
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skyrider
In the summer of 1973.... my high school classmate encouraged me to visit a local missionary pastor who often flew to Central America for his outreach missions. My classmate was an avid church-goer and I was not. We had several, deep conversations about Jesus as Lord and he felt compelled to help me before he left for the Navy. Little did I realize what was in store for me. Upon arrival at his home, there were only four of us in attendance and this missionary pastor wasted no time before he delved right into the Scriptures. Romans 10:9,10 [the new birth] was his starting point.
From there, he handled aspects of sins and shortcomings and one's old man nature. Another 15 minutes of verses.... all of which would cast the central theme of all Scripture upon Jesus Christ, lord, savior and mediator. Then he asked me if I would confess Jesus as Lord Jesus to receive the new birth. Timidly, I spoke out loud and confessed him as lord. At this point, he stood, approached me and laid hands on me. After ministering the new birth and the other two guys praying.... I "felt" this rush of energy/power from the crown of my head to the tips of my toes. To me, I took this experience as the in-filling of holy spirit.
Days later, my friend left for the Navy and soon I headed off to college. So, for me.... I was born again BEFORE ever hearing about twi or pfal. I never credited twi with leading me to the new birth; I credited my classmate and this missionary pastor. Had I gotten more scriptural understanding before leaving my home town.... perhaps, I never would have been susceptible to twi's hucksters. Who knows? I do know that God has had His hand on my life before AND after twi. No doubt or guilt of this has crossed my mind. Perhaps, that's why when the scales fell from my eyes.... there was no doubt I was released from twi's bondage.
Edited by skyridertypos
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skyrider
Going in residence way corps was journeying into the unknown. We started our training at a campus of their choosing. After 3-4 months, there was a “block rotation.” Dozens of corps were shuffled off to another campus depending upon the needs of the ministry…. especially the corps who had experience in plumbing, carpentry, electrical, floor installations, landscaping, etc. Daily schedules could change at the drop of a hat. If confrontation was doled out at lunchtime…. It didn’t matter if everyone’s schedule got backed up one hour. Time was relative to the circumstances at hand.
No choice of classes. No grades. No achievement by merit. What a “college.”
Everyone got a passing grade. Everyone received public confrontations. Everyone saw each other’s dirty laundry. Everyone failed in their “Light Bearer” experience.
Upon graduation, it wasn’t an absolute that we’d even get an Associate’s Degree….. because “The College of Emporia” had no status for accreditation. If we got this degree, it had to come from the Rome City Indiana Campus. Shady to say the least. So yeah…. this was a journey into the unknown. LOL
We were not required to take assignments when we graduated… but then we were. Bait-and-switch decisions and policies surfaces all around us. And, if you complained, then what were you thinking that you signed up for? We simply didn’t know for sure. We were zealous youngsters on Manipulation Road with a destination known as Exploitation Extravaganza.
Twi had set the snare and we had fallen into it. Through assertions of spiritual attainment and eternal rewards, we were caught into their trap and yet, fearful of trying to escape.
When nearly 80% of the way corps existed en masse in 1986…. it was a major blow to twi’s growing power. Twi ushered in damage control to set the snare again. Did they go thru the godly steps of sorrow leading to repentance? Nope. Martindale and trustees leveled a volley of accusations against these men and splinter groups that defied their heavy-handed authority. And, the wheels of the bus go ‘round and ‘round.
GreaseSpot is the first, and ONLY, place to offer clear and concise markings on how to escape from twi’s trappings. All other places and splinters make concessions around wierwille.
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Rocky
Perhaps the title of a new subforum can be distilled from this statement.
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T-Bone
Rome City was bull-$hit too.
after in-residence I go to my field assignment - this is in 86 - after Patriarch paper - so I figure while I’m in this city I’ll get a resume together - already thinking about leaving TWI… I go to a professional resume service and as I’m giving them all my info he looks up Way College of Biblical Research Indiana Campus in this big book and informs me they are not accredited! Well that just knocked me for a loop . Those lying thieving weasels.
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chockfull
Yes well the non accredited nature of the so called college the way corpse was built upon had very few educated people. There were virtually no PhD or ThD doctorate holders from accredited programs on staff. Don Wierwille had I believe a doctorate in education - the thesis he presented for it was on the transformation of emporia. The people with more advanced degrees were in non-related fields.
VPs “doctoral college” were a couple of guys in a house with mail in essay assignments. So the founder wasn’t supportive of giving any credence to others with legit doctorates with respect to allowing them space to function. Every single case of more experience and advanced degrees ran up against the stone wall of VPs ego and thus parted ways.
So the essence of what you have in the trained leadership is a bunch of non accredited teachers not holding legitimate classes with peer reviewed educational material but rather and endless re-search into trying to find some greater meaning in sermon notes in collaterals. The classes are Collateral Brainwash 101, 102, and the 102 lab - Lightbearers put a PFlappy class together in a week or two.
The output of that is a bunch of blind leading the blind hardcore salesmen of a product, not an educated spiritual person in the sense of fulfilling any standard curriculum for a bachelors in theology.
Putting any of that on any resume and any other Christian org will ghost you immediately and your presumed accomplishments are met at best with a puzzled look and a question how any of that might apply in the real world.
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T-Bone
Yup - that’s why I never did put that on my resume. Matter of fact the only time I’ve listed that was on job applications in the security industry - since you have to give an account of extended periods - and a few of the jobs I’ve worked at do a thorough vetting process at the state and federal level…never had it be an issue - and occasionally with some supervisors and coworkers it was a point of interest - and I’m thankful for Grease Spot giving me a chance to get over the stigma of being in a cult and ‘rehearsing’ my lessons learned from bad experiences…never had anyone treat me like I was a weirdo…and with a few I actually got into some cool philosophical and spiritual talks.
Edited by T-Bonetypos
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skyrider
And, that is why so many of the guys I knew skipped past the big company/corporate scene and did self-employment..... painting, landscaping, flooring, roofing, window cleaning, car detailing or sales. All of this got jumpstarted when wierwille demanded corps attend corps week AND roa each year. At the time, there just didn't seem to be many companies out there that gave their young employees 3 weeks vacation time EACH YEAR.... and welcomed you back with open arms. Travel time to Ohio each year could be a real bi+ch.
Add, *more vacation time* needed to visit family, weddings, funerals and baby births.... if you even had an "earthly family" (cough, cough) that you loved and wanted to spend time with. I swear... the narcissist-in-chief never had any empathy for our plight as corps grads. We were simply used and exploited to the max... and then, if obedience waned, discarded. Good riddance!
.
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skyrider
Exactly right
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skyrider
Classes and twi-programs were trappings, for sure..... but so was the repetitive nature of attending Sunday Teaching Services. Back in the day at headquarters, we often had Sunday morning fellowships in the BRC or under the apple trees (on nice summer days).... only to turn around and throw on a suit for Sunday Night 5pm. Apparently, as time marched on, the 5pm Service was moved to 3pm.....
to accommodate trustees and emeritus going to bed earlier....er, for travel time extended to out-of-town guests.Sunday
TeachingReading Service has evolved because every "teacher" became so brain-dead boring with no exciting input or examples from their own lives. No personal testimonies of God-power in action. Besides, Rosalie didn't trust said teacher from going off-script and the pfal-messaging got garbled. So, reading was just going to have to suffice. The Monotony was Killing MeThe butt-brigade ushers made sure that young corps had their butts in front row seats 10 minutes before meetings/sts started.... while they sat near exits and got up and down. Of course, emeritus corps and faithful old timers got choice seating and sat near the back row
Each Sunday.... going thru the motions, sleepwalking thru life.
No one WANTS to "live life" like that.... unless you're a dead-head cultist. It just ain't right. It's a mental trap with lethargic implications. It sets a pattern in your brain cells of low expectations and a God that has no power. But a staffer must comply, because someone has got to sit in those seats. God knows, most who've trodden this path for 5-15 years feel like the siren has gone off and one is led to the train station shipped off to cult camps. Why not have personal testimonies at STS??.... because there are NO vivid, personal testimonies. It's just dead-pan Jan reading her approved "teaching." Week after week, the monotony drones on.
Break free from this trapping.... and spend a few Sundays at the nearby lake.
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Rocky
Frankly, that sounds like the making or muse for short stories, or novels, or perhaps an episode or two of the Twilight Zone.
Edited by RockyClarifying (hopefully) the prospective nature of my comment
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skyrider
And.... so was the repetitive nature of Rock of Ages and all "Advanced Class Specials." As corps, we were required to be suited up and ready to go long before the meetings started. I always considered *dress protocol* of wearing a coat and tie for meetings at roa, in a hot, muddy cornfield, a cruel joke. It was so damn impractical and stupid. I remember wierwille's "reasoning" for this protocol was..... we wear our best, because God's Word is being represented. And, sure.... wierwille was dressed in a suit at the podium.... with a small air-conditioning unit installed in the podium to keep him nice and cool.
To me, without the presence of God rocking the place.... every big meeting became a herd-fest.
Even the "healing service at roa" became a fizzle when wierwille simply stood at the podium and called for advanced class and corps grads to come forward and minister to those in need. I was SO disappointed. Hypocrisy was at the highest levels of twi.... starting at the top of the pyramid. Which, of course, was no surprise to anyone who did a thorough reading of the four gospels. Jesus always stood against the leaders of the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and scribes. They were the impeders of true deliverance to the people.
So, too, were the trustees and emeritus trustees. Setting forth meetings and forms of godliness, but denying the power thereof. These forms of godliness, attending all these stupid meetings, were the trappings of a cult. Instead of placing Jesus Christ in his rightful place, at the right-hand of the throne of all true power and deliverance... we were serving idols by attending these bloviating herd-fests. Even to this very day.... they blather on, unfazed by selling a product that doesn't deliver. No matter. They pat themselves on the back thinking that they are about the Lord's work.... when even a scant reading of the Book of John shows that Jesus was out and about amongst the people one-on-one.
As I've stated before....imo, none of this cult stuff works without the guilt factor. If people would step back and apply simple discernment and logic, they'd see that after decades of this, it doesn't come near the praise and worship services of God-loving churches. Apparently, wierwille's derogatory proclamations of church denominations in pfal still holds power over their heads. Shouldn't everyone enjoy sitting in a stone-cold meeting to learn greek and aramaic words that you'll probably forget in a week.
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Rocky
Wonderful insight. Indeed, it's likely guilt and fear still enchain many. I hope they would begin to imagine life and Christianity differently than the constant grind of "we're right and everyone else proclaiming love for God is sinister." It's a depressing mental framework PFLAP, Wierwille and the insane subCULTure they established. What happened to freedom in Christ?
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skyrider
IDK, Rocky.... it's like, freedom in Christ got them to come into the store [church or cult], but guilt and fear keeps them coming back.
If people would just go out and live this creed, then church pastors and cult leaders might be out of a job. So, with each sermon there's a snippet of guilt/fear slipped in (just enough) that most people never notice it. But high-demand churches and/or cults keep adding another spoonful to the next sermon to ensure a steady flow of them return.
.
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Rocky
Pastors gotta find a better business model.
If I was wanting to figure it out now, I'd be wanting to learn from John Pavlovitz. He spent 25 years as a pastor and became disillusioned with the church. But he still writes, still ministers, and has found ways to subsist.
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skyrider
How about this business/church model?
Change the “requirements” for attendance from weekly to monthly. Send out a decree to your congregation that it is NO longer needed or required to attend church services every Sunday…. only the first Sunday of every month. God honors what's in your heart.... not the activity of weekly church attendance. In fact, if they do show up on those “other Sundays” the church doors will be locked.
Therefore, prepare them with instructions on how this new model will affect their lives. For example, these monthly services will now be 2 - 2 1/2 hours in length…. where most of the congregants will receive the “meat” of the Scriptures. Newcomers will need to attend a different session, a side-service, to learn the basic truths. Children's Fellowship will be allotted a variety of activities, play time and breaks. We will adjust as needed. No messing around. We treat the Scriptures with honor and respect.
On the three other Sundays, spend quality time with your family, loved ones and friends: Online help and support will be available Tuesday thru Friday, 9am-4pm: Senior pastors and associate leaders will monitor this website for questions, support and announcements. With this new model…. we believe that it will be of greater support than weekly services wherein families, who have time constraints and challenging lives, will be able to slow down, rest and be invigorated as they live this FREEDOM IN CHRIST. For indeed, he is truly our mediator, intercessor and advocate.
Enjoy this newfound liberty in Christ. God bless you all.
Note: In addition, if the church has kitchen facilities, break-out rooms, conference rooms and/or a gym..... information will be forthcoming as to when these areas will be available. Suggestions are welcomed.
.
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chockfull
The Christian church I grew up in (middle and high school) basically was a full court basketball court with a stage at the end. They had stacked chairs along the walls that were reset every Sunday. The church was built to serve the community first, then denominational needs second. I revisited the church within the last 5 years. It was too late to reconnect with people I knew - they were kind but I had made my choices and my high school best friend who was the pastors son had died in a car crash a decade ago. The pastor also had passed.
What I saw was that all of their office buildings had scheduled meetings for probably 15 to 20 different community interest groups who all used their offices for free for meetings. That was still functioning according to the original idea when I was there.
I like your ideas about a modern approach to a church. That would be a great church plant idea to function with less activity and more depth.
Calvary chapel has an interesting approach. They do only exegetical teachings not topical. So basically the sermon titles are Bible books or sections only. I enjoy those services occasionally.
Also the music ministries out there in churches are talented. One of the churches I occasionally attend has a Juliard grad leading up the music ministry and he is full of innovative ideas. He leads the worship service basically except the sermon part.
I think freedom in Christ is kind of like freedom in America. It is an ideal and an idea but you have to decide how you will live those freedoms for yourself.
It’s certainly is NOT a meal ticket for a shyster. Although too often in modern cults and modern churches it is exactly that.
Take your freedom seriously and exercise it because when you don’t that is when you forfeit your freedom.
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skyrider
Church Billboard:
Come Visit Our Church
We Meet Once a Month
Our Motto: Live The Life You Know Honors God
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skyrider
Friday Night Music Jamboree.......May-August, 6:00 - 10:00pm
Open Hours for Basketball and/or Volleyball......Saturdays, 1:00 - 5:00 pm
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