So it was a very selective spotlight. Likely moreso on retired military who went corps vs active military who could never fully qualify to be corps due to their military obligations as you stated. Did wierwille/martindale make special concession for these guys to your knowledge?
Yes, I believe there were concessions made at times. I remember when one military guy received orders II go to the Middle East theatre. He was supposed to teach a Sunday night service, but orders are orders.
Twi missed out on flaunting him on their Sunday night service. He quickly was driven to Dayton, grabbed a plane and was gone.
So it was a very selective spotlight. Likely moreso on retired military who went corps vs active military who could never fully qualify to be corps due to their military obligations as you stated. Did wierwille/martindale make special concession for these guys to your knowledge?
Much like they did with professional athletes in major league sports, and with people who provided large financial donations.
Much like they did with professional athletes in major league sports, and with people who provided large financial donations.
Ahhh.yeah....I remeber seeing a lot of that sort of thing in the old way magasines I would peruse while in-residence. They even had a token black dude...Lonnie something or other...seemed like he was a good dude and had some solid work going on..but the way rag is a fluff publication so I dont know what to make of the guy's legitimace. Meaning Wierwille took over other people's ministries along the way. Heefner/Doop...groove Christians of Rye NY...Im wondering is this guys was one of those.
Ahhh.yeah....I remeber seeing a lot of that sort of thing in the old way magasines I would peruse while in-residence. They even had a token black dude...Lonnie something or other...seemed like he was a good dude and had some solid work going on..but the way rag is a fluff publication so I dont know what to make of the guy's legitimace. Meaning Wierwille took over other people's ministries along the way. Heefner/Doop...groove Christians of Rye NY...Im wondering is this guys was one of those.
If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/
If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/
You may be thinking of Lonnie Frizbee. He was one of those early California Jesus Movement hippie preachers whose work eventually evolved into Calvary Chapel and Vineyard Church. He was, however, a white guy, not black. He died from AIDS in the early 1990s.
If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/
If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/
Yes he is a pharmacist and educator. Masters from Emporia State University -
An educated and accomplished man - who had a threshold limit of bullshonta and hit the road when it topped off over the limit.
Like us. Except he’s probably more accomplished. He probably bailed on TWI younger….
Thats so cool to see how he has taken offpost TWI!! I notice he didnt mention them in his ministry experience and I understand why. Very inspiring to see this.
Thats so cool to see how he has taken off post-TWI!! I notice he didnt mention them in his ministry experience and I understand why. Very inspiring to see this.
Yes, I noticed that as well.....NO MENTION of twi experience or exposure .
Thats so cool to see how he has taken off post-TWI!! I notice he didnt mention them in his ministry experience and I understand why. Very inspiring to see this.
I think that it's safe to say that Lonnell Johnson was not going to allow himself to be caught in twi's trap. Even though he graduated in the 2nd way corps, he did not allow that to define him. Therefore, by 1977 or so he started vigorously pursuing academic achievement to strengthen his ability to break free.
Many have shared thru the years how deathly paranoid wierwille was. He was in constant fear of losing his power and control over others. Was he also afraid that his secret sins would be found out and on display for others to see? I think so.
The cult atmosphere is laced with watchful paranoia: 1) Watch out for devil spirit activity, 2) Watch out that your staffers are not speaking negatives and souring on the cult's headquarter experience, 3) Watch out for internet activity, specifically on the GreaseSpot website, and 4) Watch out that your believing doesn't falter and you're out of fellowship. In other words, the system is built on fear.
As the numbers shrink.... the paranoia grows. More eyes are on the little remnant that's left. The tighter they grip, the more people want to escape the bondage.
and what I said there I thought would be good to add to this thread:
Skyrider said: “He was in constant fear of losing his power and control over others. Was he also afraid that his secret sins would be found out and on display for others to see?”
This right here!!!!!!!
Fear of losing control and fear of exposure!
Toto pulling back the curtain in The Wizard of Oz.
~ ~ ~ ~
In its memory banks R2D2 had the Death Star plans that revealed its weakness
Grease Spot Café is like Toto and R2D2, don’t you think?
Contrary to popular belief, it’s not the strongest nor the fittest nor the smartest who survive.
Dinosaurs alone showed us how wrong that theory is. Some of them were strong, some were smart, but none of them saw extinction coming!
The predictors. Those who can most accurately predict change can adapt to change and therefore survive.
The good news is you are a prediction machine. It’s the single reason why we as a species have stayed around as long as we have.
Our ability to see things before they happen allows us to adjust and stay safe. We do that by remembering, by keeping score of what’s good, what’s bad, what’s right, what’s wrong, what doesn’t work, and all via a massive trench of memories stored in the banks of our subconscious for reference and guidance.
You have spent your entire life keeping track, looking for familiar keys to where things are headed, following a life of the familiar.
End of excerpts from page 41 & 42
~ ~ ~ ~
Don’t go the way of the dinosaur.
The moral of the story: Don’t ignore the mounting evidence and experiences that TWI’s doctrine and practices will doom you to failure.
They held no power over you. If that's what you really are I am sorry to hear that.
With the evidence that these websites influence those people around our families in The Way International, sites like Grease Spot Cafe remain a hindrance.
Greasespot Cafe is a way for PFAL grads to continue to act out their training, analogous to "defeating the adversary" by making nothing but noise.
Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.
Your one job is to forget. Never mention his name, the weekly who died last century. To disappear into the real world.
When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.
On 3/1/2023 at 9:22 AM, Bolshevik said:
On one hand you have to fight The Way International, on the other you have to fight the people around the people using the information posted here for personal gain. We have blood relatives in there. GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately. You've known that for years.
My post you already read is clear.
I think you're deliberately being ignorant on this, Chockful
On 3/1/2023 at 10:28 AM, Bolshevik said:
I can't see an overall positive affect of GSC. It simply exists as does TWI. Maybe it does good. But GSC claiming GSC does good is circular reasoning. I have to look elsewhere.
I highlighted part of your post because I feel it does not reflect what I already said. So we are not talking about the same thing.
On 3/1/2023 at 10:30 AM, Bolshevik said:
That is fine Waysider, and isn't there a way to address that? Be able to connect to those in your peer group without influencing the wrong people?
On 3/1/2023 at 10:31 AM, Bolshevik said:
A bomb doesn't care who is in its blast. What is unclear?
On 3/1/2023 at 1:00 PM, Bolshevik said:
The opening post appears to me to compare Waydale/GSC to TWI and the spin-offs.
If you google "World Population" I think that number shown is much larger than the total PFAL grads. So large in fact PFAL grades divided by world population is essentially zero.
When this much larger group gets this information, what would they do to us?
Bolshevik
I’m calling out your victim blaming bs. I have taught University courses for a long time now and have been taught for 42 years. I know the type of person you are. I know how your thinking works (or doesn’t). You are not smart or provocative. All of your anecdotal claims are dubious opinions that don’t originate in anything near a logical mindset. Your social currency is doxa, mine is episteme. You are a troll, plain and simple. You have a singular belief that you have not shared which allows you to think you are above everyone else here and that everyone here is hindering our families in TWI. So what was done to your family that is currently in TWI? Nothing has happened to mine. Bam, my anecdotal evidence proves yours is wrong. /s *facepalm*
I am a PFAL, AOP Advance class grad, born to my parents while they were in the Corps, later I went into the Family Corps with my parents and brother. My parents gave up their land, homes, horses, and investments to go back into the Family Corps. Once we were in Rome City they controlled our lives every second of every day. When I was raped in the FC they probably held no power over my 7th grade self either. Clearly that was my fault and I was not one with god. Only VPW and LCM’s dick can give godly power to those that “need” it. When we were sitting under the big tent at the RoA waiting to hear where we would go WoW and then to have the entire program cancelled they probably held no control over my family. We were in the middle of the RoA, now homeless and penniless and at the mercy of whatever Loy decided to do with us. The Milgram Experiment shows time and time again that it does not matter what walk of life you come from, you will listen and obey authority. Two out of three people will, every single time, and will give no regard to the consequences of others as long as the authoritarian figure says everything is ok. If we, the victims, do not document what happened to us THEN THE CYCLE WILL CONTINUE AND IN ANOTHER THOUSAND YEARS PEOPLE WILL FALL FOR THE SAME BULLCRAP. This is literally education 101 in high school, middle school? Any and all harm that comes to people, family, and friends still in TWI is NOT OUR FAULT. We control our actions and cannot control the retaliatorial actions of others because we are speaking out on our truths. You are literally blaming the victim. My parents will die with TWI in their hearts and minds before me and my brother cross their minds. GSC might actually reach someone close to them and help them understand their errors. You blame those seeking help and answers when TWI took away their ability to gain an education and to use logical reasoning. If you were in TWI for a long period of time (read decades) and as a youth then your lack of intelligence, sympathy, empathy, and can be explained then I too am sorry that they stole time from you so that you could get a better education and perspective on what you think you are saying. Which of course, no one knows what you are saying but you. Because in the end you aren’t saying anything. You are just being a thorn in our flesh because you don’t know how to help yourself or those close to you. Well guess what, the answers are here if you can get past the fact that we all will have some lingering effects in our beliefs, our thought processes, and the language we use because of TWI.
So what evidence do you have that these websites influence those around our families? And more importantly, do you not understand that that is not our problem? We are here speaking truths about what has happened to us, period. If you are not strong enough or mature enough to hear the truth of how TWI has hurt so many people, then it is I who feel sorry for you. Of the most fundamental truths that I have learned as a teacher, it is that you are projecting. You are acting just like a “wafer” but you have your sights on a different target. Or really the same, right? Because you are attacking ex-TWI-ers just like the TWI does.
I have been a University professor and have read the peer-reviewed research on this and many topics for over a decade. The research proves time and time again that we must always find the truth of a matter before we can begin healing for ourselves, let alone others. Sure, people on this site .... me off and I wish they would stop using old terminology or would just “get over it.” But you know what? At the end of the day we were all robbed of our time. Time we could have been spending elsewhere improving our education, our families, our careers, et cetera. So I understand why people act the way they do and you know what I do when I get frustrated, I walk away for a bit (read years lol). But every time I am at a crossroads in my life and every time I cannot find a way to move forward I end up at GSC and unwrap something new that I didn’t know needed healing. GSC has been THE ONLY SOURCE OF HEALING AND SUPPORT FOR ME FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS and I only post a couple times every few years. I am a ghost around here and yet this community of like-minded individuals is needed for those of us truly destroyed by TWI.
You have chosen to continue to be a “wafer” even though you are outside of their garden.
You have chosen to be ethnocentric and ignorant to feed your ego. Sound like anyone we know?
You speak in riddles that have no discernible thesis nor conclusion. (Btw, this is documented in peer-reviewed research as being a cornerstone of the uneducated mind.) VPW’s Life Lines comes to mind.
Those of us who are PFAL and AOP grads are not continuing to act out our training in any way, shape, or form. Please give me ONE example of how we are. If anything it is YOU who are still emulating the condescending nature that we all learned in TWI. I was trained in those classes to be on a higher plane that those around me. I know the truth and they don’t so clearly I am superior and thus my questions and answers will sound pompous to others, yet profane to myself. I was taught that it was our way or the highway and if you don’t like it then I’m sorry to hear that. SOUND LIKE ANYONE AROUND THIS SITE? (Spoiler Alert: It’s you…) You say that “our one job is to forget.” Once again talking out of your foot and proclaiming what I should do, just like TWI. You do understand that forgetting and not speaking up is tantamount to enabling those who caused us harm, right? You understand that the peer-reviewed research proclaims time and time again that we as a society must document and not forget, lest our sins come back to bite us. Jfc this is common knowledge outside of academia. You are purposely being obtuse or you do not realize that you are just like those that you think you have broken free from. You have almost 8k posts in which you are showing your ignorance over and over again. It is you who are the problem. You need a slap in the face to show you that YOU ARE STILL ACTING LIKE A WAFER (I hate this term but TWI-er doesn't roll of the tongue). You are close-minded, uneducated, and quick to dismiss, only interject half conversations, and speak in riddles all while thinking highly of yourself and putting down others. It's passive aggressive bullying at its finest, whether you realize it or not. I mean I’d go on but jfc the parallels are glaringly obvious.
“When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.” I think this every time I see you post. We are here for healing. You are here for pointing fingers anywhere but towards yourself. It’s exhausting and why I am on a rant. I give people like you ZERO chances. You either know what you are or you do not. If you don’t then this will be a wake-up call and I'll gladly eat crow. If you do then you will reply in unorganized thoughts and riddles that may or may not have relevance towards acknowledging the healing that truth brings around here and that you are coooooonstantly victim blaming and putting the onus of responsibility on anyone but yourself. You do not deserve my respect but I have given it to you, barely. I couldn’t care less how you reply to me. I can take anything you can dish out. I live in FL if you want to do it in person. I’m not a keyboard warrior like you so I’ll gladly show you how your thinking is wrong if you’d like. But in the meantime, stfu and recognize that this site is for those of us who are .... hurting from TWI’s .... and we don’t have more time for it here. We will speak the truth and if that truth hurts your family members, or my family members, it is NOT OUR FAULT. You are a TWI apologist at this point. The fact that others are cordial with you and you are not with them speaks volumes. (I am well aware of my supposed hypocrisy to this point at the moment, but sometimes I need to step out of line to get others back in.) I am not a regular so I don’t gaf who I .... off. And even if I was I still wouldn’t care. I am a victim of many things and will not put up with your pseudo-intellectual doxa when my intellectual episteme already shows me what this site is and who you are. This site has helped my life and my family, you have not helped anyone or anything. PERIOD.
“Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.”
Let me help you out kid. Every single action we do as mammals, let alone human beings, has latent consequences. We are not responsible for said consequences. We can only control our own thoughts and actions. Every time you post one of you 7k plus comments you think you are being sly, slick, and mighty. But the reality is that you are showing those of us around here why we need this place every time you show your foot. You should be thanking those around here for their hard work, time, patience, money, et cetera. Yes there are a lot of egos and I don’t like most of them around here, but that’s my own personal shortcoming, not theirs. I literally come to GSC every 3-5 years and I GET HEALING EACH AND EVERY TIME. You are on here every day and spew vile everywhere I look. Again, as an educated person it is clear you project. I hope you can start to see that. You know you could help those you think need helping instead of complaining that those that "could" hurt your family are using this place of healing as ammo. It’s not our fault that people lurk for information to hurt others. Do not blame the victim. Do not protect the perpetrator.
GSC does not harm indiscriminately. It heals indiscriminately. When a website can provide more powerful healing than a lifetime of being in TWI, then of course there will be those who seek to hurt and dismantle us. When you go on reddit or whatever .... echo chamber you hide in while on the ‘net, do you tell them to stop talking about the subject because they are harming people?
When you proclaim “my post you already read is clear, I think you are deliberately being ignorant on this chockful” you are not being anything but a smug and ineffectual communicator, let alone whatever else you think you are. And for the third or fourth time I will let you know that you are projecting your inadequacies onto the people replying to you. It is not up to us to determine what you mean. It is up to you. If we cannot understand your thesis, let alone your thoughts because you cannot sufficiently communicate them, then you need to take a step back and once again acknowledge it is you who is in the wrong.
You talk about GSC causing harm indiscriminately and when skyrider tells you that you are false you brush him off as not understanding that a bomb doesn’t care who it hurts. Tbone accurately states that it is TWI that is like a bomb. Again, you are projecting. I do not know how long you were or how long you got out, but I’ll say it again: I see no difference between your thoughts, attitude, and words than anyone in TWI. I am 42, I was in TWI for 25 years. Born into the Corp. I know TWI. I know how it and everyone involves works. You have yet to cast your shackles my friend. Until you do I suggest you stop trying to help others. You are harming more than you are helping. We see your mind skipping around and having conversations without us. We see you having thoughts and then spewing half thoughts onto the page. We see you. We see this site. You see neither.
Wtf does the world population and PFAL grads have to do with anything? What would they do to us? As a statistician I would love to know what you thought you were doing with numbers lol. You are seriously throwing incomplete thoughts and incomplete conversations at GSC in an attempt to sound like _____ (fill in the blank).
So needless to say your 7.7k posts on this site alone have had major latent consequences which include telling me to get over it and that I haven’t experienced healing from GSC in the past 15 years. You need to close your mouth and either get an education or listen to others. Either way, you are doing to us what you claim we are doing to your loved ones. It needs to stop. You need to stop.
I could say more but I’ve exhausted myself. Time for warm milk and a nap. Where’s my blanky?!
So needless to say your 7.7k posts on this site alone have had major latent consequences which include telling me to get over it and that I haven’t experienced healing from GSC in the past 15 years. You need to close your mouth and either get an education or listen to others. Either way, you are doing to us what you claim we are doing to your loved ones. It needs to stop. You need to stop.
I could say more but I’ve exhausted myself. Time for warm milk and a nap. Where’s my blanky?
I think he stopped. He asked to be removed from GSC membership. I'm not sure, but the mods may have honored his request.
@Beguiledthat was a pretty formidable rant! Nice! Tell us how you really feel!
I also get worked up at times by the density between certain people’s ears.
Last night was the first time I've been on here in about 3 years and this was the first thread I read. I have no one to blame but myself.
1 hour ago, Rocky said:
I think he stopped. He asked to be removed from GSC membership. I'm not sure, but the mods may have honored his request.
Nevertheless, I just found this YouTube clip.
Great video. Finding the common motive when two people disagree is always the solution. But that wasn't what I was doing. I was flexing in order to draw a line in the sand. "Your bullsh!t stops here." Perhaps that is my glaring problem, I wanted to create the boundary instead of trying to find common ground.
Great video. Finding the common motive when two people disagree is always the solution. But that wasn't what I was doing. I was flexing in order to draw a line in the sand. "Your bullsh!t stops here." Perhaps that is my glaring problem, I wanted to create the boundary instead of trying to find common ground.
Nothing wrong with setting boundaries. Cults and charlatans like victor paul wierwille do not respect boundaries. Boundaries are important.
Sometimes, common ground is nowhere to be found. "Some men you just can't reach." (Thinking of someone else.)
Nothing wrong with setting boundaries. Cults and charlatans like victor paul wierwille do not respect boundaries. Boundaries are important.
Sometimes, common ground is nowhere to be found. "Some men you just can't reach." (Thinking of someone else.)
Yea, that's how I see it. When someone is blatantly a bully, a victim blamer, a contrarian, a passive aggressive whatever - then we will never share the same bread together.
I don't know how old he is but the brain doesn't stop developing until you hit 25, then it takes a few more years to figure out what you know and what you don't know and to figure out the patterns you/society have created in your brain. I'm assuming he is 30 or younger and is still trying to figure out how to find his own mental footing. But if you do that at the cost of others, it's time for you to get slapped upside your developing head.
Late 40s with teenaged kids. Bolsh may come across as uneducated on GSC for one reason or another but is quite educated. So, he is a personal friend of mine and Ive known him since 2001 at least. He's had a rough go of it and that shows through at times. I don't agree with his assessment of GSC and told him as much, but I guess he has some agenda or another to ruing GSC, so be it. He will have to take a number and wait in line on that note.
Perhaps that is my glaring problem, I wanted to create the boundary instead of trying to find common ground.
Well, if it rubbed your rhubarb so to speak then boundaries are healthy. Sometimes it seems in my life that I set boundaries first and then try and find common ground, sometimes, but not always. Peace! Glad you are posting around here BTW, had no idea you lurked so faithfully and for so long. Seems youve given me a run for my money. I lurked a good number of years before finally posting here. Ive been active at times and other times not so much.
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Charity
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend
skyrider
Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chos
skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/sh
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skyrider
Yes, I believe there were concessions made at times. I remember when one military guy received orders II go to the Middle East theatre. He was supposed to teach a Sunday night service, but orders are orders.
Twi missed out on flaunting him on their Sunday night service. He quickly was driven to Dayton, grabbed a plane and was gone.
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Rocky
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Rocky
Much like they did with professional athletes in major league sports, and with people who provided large financial donations.
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OldSkool
Ahhh.yeah....I remeber seeing a lot of that sort of thing in the old way magasines I would peruse while in-residence. They even had a token black dude...Lonnie something or other...seemed like he was a good dude and had some solid work going on..but the way rag is a fluff publication so I dont know what to make of the guy's legitimace. Meaning Wierwille took over other people's ministries along the way. Heefner/Doop...groove Christians of Rye NY...Im wondering is this guys was one of those.
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Rocky
If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/
Three athletes I remember Loy latching on to and promoting were Tony Phillips (MLB utility infielder), Tony Collins (NFL running back) and Irving Fryar (another NFL player). All three of them had significant problems post TWI and did not laud their PFLAP grad status.
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OldSkool
Thanks!!
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waysider
.
You may be thinking of Lonnie Frizbee. He was one of those early California Jesus Movement hippie preachers whose work eventually evolved into Calvary Chapel and Vineyard Church. He was, however, a white guy, not black. He died from AIDS in the early 1990s.
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skyrider
Yes, exactly right. Lonnell Johnson is an accomplished and competent professional.
Another link.... Dr. Lonnell Johnson
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chockfull
Yes he is a pharmacist and educator. Masters from Emporia State University -
An educated and accomplished man - who had a threshold limit of bullshonta and hit the road when it topped off over the limit.
Like us. Except he’s probably more accomplished. He probably bailed on TWI younger….
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OldSkool
Thats so cool to see how he has taken offpost TWI!! I notice he didnt mention them in his ministry experience and I understand why. Very inspiring to see this.
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skyrider
Yes, I noticed that as well.....NO MENTION of twi experience or exposure .
Kicking off the dust of his feet and moving on.
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skyrider
I think that it's safe to say that Lonnell Johnson was not going to allow himself to be caught in twi's trap. Even though he graduated in the 2nd way corps, he did not allow that to define him. Therefore, by 1977 or so he started vigorously pursuing academic achievement to strengthen his ability to break free.
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T-Bone
On another thread Skyrider said this:
and what I said there I thought would be good to add to this thread:
Skyrider said: “He was in constant fear of losing his power and control over others. Was he also afraid that his secret sins would be found out and on display for others to see?”
This right here!!!!!!!
Fear of losing control and fear of exposure!
Toto pulling back the curtain in The Wizard of Oz.
~ ~ ~ ~
In its memory banks R2D2 had the Death Star plans that revealed its weakness
Grease Spot Café is like Toto and R2D2, don’t you think?
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T-Bone
I was re-reading a book on personal empowerment – and when the author talked about dinosaurs and the phrase survival of the fittest – my mind came back to this thread…from the book Stop Doing That $hit: End Self-Sabotage and Demand Your Life Back by Gary John Bishop a bit of urban philosophy:
SURVIVAL OF THE OBVIOUS
Contrary to popular belief, it’s not the strongest nor the fittest nor the smartest who survive.
Dinosaurs alone showed us how wrong that theory is. Some of them were strong, some were smart, but none of them saw extinction coming!
The predictors. Those who can most accurately predict change can adapt to change and therefore survive.
The good news is you are a prediction machine. It’s the single reason why we as a species have stayed around as long as we have.
Our ability to see things before they happen allows us to adjust and stay safe. We do that by remembering, by keeping score of what’s good, what’s bad, what’s right, what’s wrong, what doesn’t work, and all via a massive trench of memories stored in the banks of our subconscious for reference and guidance.
You have spent your entire life keeping track, looking for familiar keys to where things are headed, following a life of the familiar.
End of excerpts from page 41 & 42
~ ~ ~ ~
Don’t go the way of the dinosaur.
The moral of the story: Don’t ignore the mounting evidence and experiences that TWI’s doctrine and practices will doom you to failure.
Get out now!
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Beguiled
Bolshevik
I’m calling out your victim blaming bs. I have taught University courses for a long time now and have been taught for 42 years. I know the type of person you are. I know how your thinking works (or doesn’t). You are not smart or provocative. All of your anecdotal claims are dubious opinions that don’t originate in anything near a logical mindset. Your social currency is doxa, mine is episteme. You are a troll, plain and simple. You have a singular belief that you have not shared which allows you to think you are above everyone else here and that everyone here is hindering our families in TWI. So what was done to your family that is currently in TWI? Nothing has happened to mine. Bam, my anecdotal evidence proves yours is wrong. /s *facepalm*
I am a PFAL, AOP Advance class grad, born to my parents while they were in the Corps, later I went into the Family Corps with my parents and brother. My parents gave up their land, homes, horses, and investments to go back into the Family Corps. Once we were in Rome City they controlled our lives every second of every day. When I was raped in the FC they probably held no power over my 7th grade self either. Clearly that was my fault and I was not one with god. Only VPW and LCM’s dick can give godly power to those that “need” it. When we were sitting under the big tent at the RoA waiting to hear where we would go WoW and then to have the entire program cancelled they probably held no control over my family. We were in the middle of the RoA, now homeless and penniless and at the mercy of whatever Loy decided to do with us. The Milgram Experiment shows time and time again that it does not matter what walk of life you come from, you will listen and obey authority. Two out of three people will, every single time, and will give no regard to the consequences of others as long as the authoritarian figure says everything is ok. If we, the victims, do not document what happened to us THEN THE CYCLE WILL CONTINUE AND IN ANOTHER THOUSAND YEARS PEOPLE WILL FALL FOR THE SAME BULLCRAP. This is literally education 101 in high school, middle school? Any and all harm that comes to people, family, and friends still in TWI is NOT OUR FAULT. We control our actions and cannot control the retaliatorial actions of others because we are speaking out on our truths. You are literally blaming the victim. My parents will die with TWI in their hearts and minds before me and my brother cross their minds. GSC might actually reach someone close to them and help them understand their errors. You blame those seeking help and answers when TWI took away their ability to gain an education and to use logical reasoning. If you were in TWI for a long period of time (read decades) and as a youth then your lack of intelligence, sympathy, empathy, and can be explained then I too am sorry that they stole time from you so that you could get a better education and perspective on what you think you are saying. Which of course, no one knows what you are saying but you. Because in the end you aren’t saying anything. You are just being a thorn in our flesh because you don’t know how to help yourself or those close to you. Well guess what, the answers are here if you can get past the fact that we all will have some lingering effects in our beliefs, our thought processes, and the language we use because of TWI.
So what evidence do you have that these websites influence those around our families? And more importantly, do you not understand that that is not our problem? We are here speaking truths about what has happened to us, period. If you are not strong enough or mature enough to hear the truth of how TWI has hurt so many people, then it is I who feel sorry for you. Of the most fundamental truths that I have learned as a teacher, it is that you are projecting. You are acting just like a “wafer” but you have your sights on a different target. Or really the same, right? Because you are attacking ex-TWI-ers just like the TWI does.
I have been a University professor and have read the peer-reviewed research on this and many topics for over a decade. The research proves time and time again that we must always find the truth of a matter before we can begin healing for ourselves, let alone others. Sure, people on this site .... me off and I wish they would stop using old terminology or would just “get over it.” But you know what? At the end of the day we were all robbed of our time. Time we could have been spending elsewhere improving our education, our families, our careers, et cetera. So I understand why people act the way they do and you know what I do when I get frustrated, I walk away for a bit (read years lol). But every time I am at a crossroads in my life and every time I cannot find a way to move forward I end up at GSC and unwrap something new that I didn’t know needed healing. GSC has been THE ONLY SOURCE OF HEALING AND SUPPORT FOR ME FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS and I only post a couple times every few years. I am a ghost around here and yet this community of like-minded individuals is needed for those of us truly destroyed by TWI.
You have chosen to continue to be a “wafer” even though you are outside of their garden.
You have chosen to be ethnocentric and ignorant to feed your ego. Sound like anyone we know?
You speak in riddles that have no discernible thesis nor conclusion. (Btw, this is documented in peer-reviewed research as being a cornerstone of the uneducated mind.) VPW’s Life Lines comes to mind.
Those of us who are PFAL and AOP grads are not continuing to act out our training in any way, shape, or form. Please give me ONE example of how we are. If anything it is YOU who are still emulating the condescending nature that we all learned in TWI. I was trained in those classes to be on a higher plane that those around me. I know the truth and they don’t so clearly I am superior and thus my questions and answers will sound pompous to others, yet profane to myself. I was taught that it was our way or the highway and if you don’t like it then I’m sorry to hear that. SOUND LIKE ANYONE AROUND THIS SITE? (Spoiler Alert: It’s you…) You say that “our one job is to forget.” Once again talking out of your foot and proclaiming what I should do, just like TWI. You do understand that forgetting and not speaking up is tantamount to enabling those who caused us harm, right? You understand that the peer-reviewed research proclaims time and time again that we as a society must document and not forget, lest our sins come back to bite us. Jfc this is common knowledge outside of academia. You are purposely being obtuse or you do not realize that you are just like those that you think you have broken free from. You have almost 8k posts in which you are showing your ignorance over and over again. It is you who are the problem. You need a slap in the face to show you that YOU ARE STILL ACTING LIKE A WAFER (I hate this term but TWI-er doesn't roll of the tongue). You are close-minded, uneducated, and quick to dismiss, only interject half conversations, and speak in riddles all while thinking highly of yourself and putting down others. It's passive aggressive bullying at its finest, whether you realize it or not. I mean I’d go on but jfc the parallels are glaringly obvious.
“When the birds are silent the rest of us don't have to consider them.” I think this every time I see you post. We are here for healing. You are here for pointing fingers anywhere but towards yourself. It’s exhausting and why I am on a rant. I give people like you ZERO chances. You either know what you are or you do not. If you don’t then this will be a wake-up call and I'll gladly eat crow. If you do then you will reply in unorganized thoughts and riddles that may or may not have relevance towards acknowledging the healing that truth brings around here and that you are coooooonstantly victim blaming and putting the onus of responsibility on anyone but yourself. You do not deserve my respect but I have given it to you, barely. I couldn’t care less how you reply to me. I can take anything you can dish out. I live in FL if you want to do it in person. I’m not a keyboard warrior like you so I’ll gladly show you how your thinking is wrong if you’d like. But in the meantime, stfu and recognize that this site is for those of us who are .... hurting from TWI’s .... and we don’t have more time for it here. We will speak the truth and if that truth hurts your family members, or my family members, it is NOT OUR FAULT. You are a TWI apologist at this point. The fact that others are cordial with you and you are not with them speaks volumes. (I am well aware of my supposed hypocrisy to this point at the moment, but sometimes I need to step out of line to get others back in.) I am not a regular so I don’t gaf who I .... off. And even if I was I still wouldn’t care. I am a victim of many things and will not put up with your pseudo-intellectual doxa when my intellectual episteme already shows me what this site is and who you are. This site has helped my life and my family, you have not helped anyone or anything. PERIOD.
“Posting to the internet always has unintended consequences.”
Let me help you out kid. Every single action we do as mammals, let alone human beings, has latent consequences. We are not responsible for said consequences. We can only control our own thoughts and actions. Every time you post one of you 7k plus comments you think you are being sly, slick, and mighty. But the reality is that you are showing those of us around here why we need this place every time you show your foot. You should be thanking those around here for their hard work, time, patience, money, et cetera. Yes there are a lot of egos and I don’t like most of them around here, but that’s my own personal shortcoming, not theirs. I literally come to GSC every 3-5 years and I GET HEALING EACH AND EVERY TIME. You are on here every day and spew vile everywhere I look. Again, as an educated person it is clear you project. I hope you can start to see that. You know you could help those you think need helping instead of complaining that those that "could" hurt your family are using this place of healing as ammo. It’s not our fault that people lurk for information to hurt others. Do not blame the victim. Do not protect the perpetrator.
GSC does not harm indiscriminately. It heals indiscriminately. When a website can provide more powerful healing than a lifetime of being in TWI, then of course there will be those who seek to hurt and dismantle us. When you go on reddit or whatever .... echo chamber you hide in while on the ‘net, do you tell them to stop talking about the subject because they are harming people?
When you proclaim “my post you already read is clear, I think you are deliberately being ignorant on this chockful” you are not being anything but a smug and ineffectual communicator, let alone whatever else you think you are. And for the third or fourth time I will let you know that you are projecting your inadequacies onto the people replying to you. It is not up to us to determine what you mean. It is up to you. If we cannot understand your thesis, let alone your thoughts because you cannot sufficiently communicate them, then you need to take a step back and once again acknowledge it is you who is in the wrong.
You talk about GSC causing harm indiscriminately and when skyrider tells you that you are false you brush him off as not understanding that a bomb doesn’t care who it hurts. Tbone accurately states that it is TWI that is like a bomb. Again, you are projecting. I do not know how long you were or how long you got out, but I’ll say it again: I see no difference between your thoughts, attitude, and words than anyone in TWI. I am 42, I was in TWI for 25 years. Born into the Corp. I know TWI. I know how it and everyone involves works. You have yet to cast your shackles my friend. Until you do I suggest you stop trying to help others. You are harming more than you are helping. We see your mind skipping around and having conversations without us. We see you having thoughts and then spewing half thoughts onto the page. We see you. We see this site. You see neither.
Wtf does the world population and PFAL grads have to do with anything? What would they do to us? As a statistician I would love to know what you thought you were doing with numbers lol. You are seriously throwing incomplete thoughts and incomplete conversations at GSC in an attempt to sound like _____ (fill in the blank).
So needless to say your 7.7k posts on this site alone have had major latent consequences which include telling me to get over it and that I haven’t experienced healing from GSC in the past 15 years. You need to close your mouth and either get an education or listen to others. Either way, you are doing to us what you claim we are doing to your loved ones. It needs to stop. You need to stop.
I could say more but I’ve exhausted myself. Time for warm milk and a nap. Where’s my blanky?!
Edited by BeguiledI'm human.
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chockfull
@Beguiledthat was a pretty formidable rant! Nice! Tell us how you really feel!
I also get worked up at times by the density between certain people’s ears.
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Rocky
I think he stopped. He asked to be removed from GSC membership. I'm not sure, but the mods may have honored his request.
Nevertheless, I just found this YouTube clip.
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Beguiled
Last night was the first time I've been on here in about 3 years and this was the first thread I read. I have no one to blame but myself.
Great video. Finding the common motive when two people disagree is always the solution. But that wasn't what I was doing. I was flexing in order to draw a line in the sand. "Your bullsh!t stops here." Perhaps that is my glaring problem, I wanted to create the boundary instead of trying to find common ground.
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Rocky
A worthy endeavor. Not necessarily something the person you addressed cares about at all, however.
Then again, sometimes just making the declaration itself is therapeutic.
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Nathan_Jr
Nothing wrong with setting boundaries. Cults and charlatans like victor paul wierwille do not respect boundaries. Boundaries are important.
Sometimes, common ground is nowhere to be found. "Some men you just can't reach." (Thinking of someone else.)
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Beguiled
Yea, that's how I see it. When someone is blatantly a bully, a victim blamer, a contrarian, a passive aggressive whatever - then we will never share the same bread together.
I don't know how old he is but the brain doesn't stop developing until you hit 25, then it takes a few more years to figure out what you know and what you don't know and to figure out the patterns you/society have created in your brain. I'm assuming he is 30 or younger and is still trying to figure out how to find his own mental footing. But if you do that at the cost of others, it's time for you to get slapped upside your developing head.
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Rocky
Probably in his 40s.
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OldSkool
Late 40s with teenaged kids. Bolsh may come across as uneducated on GSC for one reason or another but is quite educated. So, he is a personal friend of mine and Ive known him since 2001 at least. He's had a rough go of it and that shows through at times. I don't agree with his assessment of GSC and told him as much, but I guess he has some agenda or another to ruing GSC, so be it. He will have to take a number and wait in line on that note.
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OldSkool
Well, if it rubbed your rhubarb so to speak then boundaries are healthy. Sometimes it seems in my life that I set boundaries first and then try and find common ground, sometimes, but not always. Peace! Glad you are posting around here BTW, had no idea you lurked so faithfully and for so long. Seems youve given me a run for my money. I lurked a good number of years before finally posting here. Ive been active at times and other times not so much.
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