Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING.
When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/she has pent up inside the crevices of this "renewed mind." LOL. A healthy mind is a questioning mind.
Did wierwille and company really think that we would "stay on the pfal-farm" a lifetime.... repeating its mantra as an invocation to this mythical, pfal-god? How insane is THAT? Only a narcissist could ever imagine concluding such a scenario for his followers. Same goes for all of their "advanced" study classes. Most all of these classes have been redone or tweaked over the years and "The Way Tree" class was completely discarded. Thank you Johnnie Townsend for that class... NOT. As so many posters have said.... such drumbeating of repetition is insanity.
Some question wierwille/twi only to a certain point.... and then stop. That's NOT empowering, that's not freedom. They are STILL tethered to certain aspects of twi's conditioning. It doesn't matter if they exit twi or not.... they are still way-brained by indoctrination.
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING.
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ. It's only been four months and now I've started to fellowship with Christians in a church where I feel at home. A lot of what I'm seeing there lines up with what I've learned on GSC.
The important point to realize is that for me, I needed to begin having fellowship with Christ before I could fellowship with others who belong in his body outside of twi. What helped me to connect with my Lord was posting on GSC so the believers there could show from scripture how it is God's will that we have fellowship with Christ. Once I understood that and I could open the door to receiving him, he went from being someone I knew about in my head to being someone alive in my life.
I still read and send posts on GSC so I can continue learning and maybe help others as I've been helped.
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ. It's only been four months and now I've started to fellowship with Christians in a church where I feel at home. A lot of what I'm seeing there lines up with what I've learned on GSC.
The important point to realize is that for me, I needed to begin having fellowship with Christ before I could fellowship with others who belong in his body outside of twi. What helped me to connect with my Lord was posting on GSC so the believers there could show from scripture how it is God's will that we have fellowship with Christ. Once I understood that and I could open the door to receiving him, he went from being someone I knew about in my head to being someone alive in my life.
I still read and send posts on GSC so I can continue learning and maybe help others as I've been helped.
Exactly right. The more I questioned twi's doctrine.... the more inaccuracies I found.
Then, my understanding and relationship with Jesus Christ was restored fully and completely.
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ. It's only been four months and now I've started to fellowship with Christians in a church where I feel at home. A lot of what I'm seeing there lines up with what I've learned on GSC.
The important point to realize is that for me, I needed to begin having fellowship with Christ before I could fellowship with others who belong in his body outside of twi. What helped me to connect with my Lord was posting on GSC so the believers there could show from scripture how it is God's will that we have fellowship with Christ. Once I understood that and I could open the door to receiving him, he went from being someone I knew about in my head to being someone alive in my life.
I still read and send posts on GSC so I can continue learning and maybe help others as I've been helped.
tremendous post, Charity!
funny how TWI messed with my self-confidence and in a twofold effect - I felt like I had a shallow or underdeveloped relationship with Jesus Christ because I wasn't spiritual enough. But all that’s changed now. By cutting out the middleman of TWI , I decide what I should study, pray about…and even just how to pray.
and in general categories for me frequenting Grease Spot Cafe helped me escape the us-versus-them mentality of TWI. I tend to be more open minded when listening to others - not just on GSC but listening to other viewpoints on TV .
The generally accepted elements of emotional intelligence are:
1. Self Awareness
2. Awareness of Others
TWI systematized doctrinal error in scriptures to erode away strength in each of those areas crucial for interaction and survival in the real world.
Self Awareness - any kind of cogniscence of your own moral barometer is erased by “righteousness” and “believing”
Awareness of Others - an isolationist view is taught and lived - a view where not only all other religions are devil possessed (extreme superstition) but so are all the heads of the Christian denominations and the Popes. Some of this is hidden until the Adv Class where people have 3 yrs of immersion into cult doctrine.
As a result extreme obedience and conformity is demanded and expected unquestioned.
This process like the Stanford prison experiment transforms people into frames of thinking rather quickly and isolated them in to a small society that is very controlling. Time is consumed with multiple meetings and outreach and undershepherding and the follower is swallowed up quickly in the process.
Each stage leads to the next higher level commitment.
True Christianity is free and grassroots. Some churches seem closer to those roots others drift more towards other interests like prosperity gospel.
TWI is 100 percent it’s own isolated cult never interacting with the other 99.9999 % of Christianity.
In direct contrast to this Jesus Christ spoke of believing in him that “my yoke is easy and my burden is light”.
Christ bore the heavy burden and yoke of the law and judgement and gave his life so we don’t have to carry it.
Don’t take it back on your own back as some kind of martyr and live in chains.
This process like the Stanford prison experimenttransformsTRANSFORMED people into frames of thinking rather quickly and isolated them in to a small society that is very controlling.
Frankly, as chockfull's comment suggests, Wierwille's fraudulent take on Christian community, which is really the bottom line of the Way Corps(e), transformed participants and those said participants successfully proselytized into something other than those people's true selves.
The more I questioned twi's doctrine.... the more inaccuracies I found.
I will posit that for a person to break the chains of waybrain in their lives, they will need to look at the bible with new eyes, no longer from the framework of parsing the meanings of greek or aramaic words, no longer from the framework of fundamentalist private interpretation (or even Wierwille's interpretation) of what might be God's true meaning.
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ.
Charity.... your post is tremendous but also saddening. For 30 years, you were alienated from a fulfilling spiritual life, from walking with your lord and savior, because of twi's jaded doctrine. Others have come forward to testify of the same. Twi's destructive doctrine compels twi-followers to make wierwille/twi the mediator between God and man. Twisted.
When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more..... lots of folks are going to be in for a rude awakening. None more than those who'd served twi's self-indulging and idolatrous agenda.
It's a journey. I've been on that road for more than 30 years. I like it.
Yes, it's a journey.
And, whether or not one chooses the Christian life or some other form of fulfillment..... at least, it's his/her choice. Rather than being intimidated and indoctrinated into twi-servitude.... NOW, by questioning all of it, one is able to be free from prejudices and judgments of twi-authoritarianism.
When I exited twi in 1998, one of the first things I did was resolve to hold no sign of guilt. Why should I hold any guilt over my own head and heart? After all, THEY were the deceivers, the hucksters, the opportunists living off my sacrifice to serve twi. Yet, guilt is one of their many weapons. With incremental steps, each class gives them, they think, more access to govern our decisions and life. Remember.....having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.'
One is quickly able to put twi's leadership at arms-length from any more encroachment the minute the weapon of guilt is removed!! With luminous clarity and serenity, one begins to see that twi holds NO POWER over you unless you allow it. Certainly, untangling this whole mess is a process.... but, for me, the beginning step was removing this guilt-weapon from further attacks on my conscience. I refused to think otherwise. Immediately, I began trashing wierwille's [sob-fest] corps letters that claimed "....you're corps, act like it. Stand with me." Then, I began dumping my Way Magazines....all of them, except one where I wrote an article on "Spiritual Integrity" [how appropriate, eh?]. Within days, I was going thru my correspondence files and dumping those. Then, after consultation with my wife.... we agreed that the collateral books were of no use and discarded them.
Six months later, Paul All*n had his run-in with martindale and left twi. Less than two months later, April 1999... he had Waydale up and running.
Explosions of eye-witness accounts started hitting the internet. Hundreds of posters came onboard to join the open discussions. It was easy to discern that there was this pent-up frustration and anger sitting out there just waiting for someone to strike the match. And, Paul was just the man to do it. He was computer savvy and devoted nearly 18-hours per day to monitor the site. His mission was to seek and destroy The Way and Martindale......hence, Waydale. Twi was caught flat-footed and had no idea how to stop this creation that they COULD NOT control.
I would stay up till 2-3am, because there was generally 10-15 people still posting away. It was so electrifying that I didn't want to sleep. Questions sought were questions answered.... promptly. Soon, there was a private messaging and a private chatroom. Holy Moley. Who could sleep will all this activity going on? I couldn't wait to get off work.... to come home and catch up on the threads.
Seemingly, after a few years [4-6].... many posters dropped off after lengthy post counts. Some came to vent, some to ask questions, some to be wierwille-apologists.... which all made for lively discussions. And, after Paul and Fern won their out-of-court settlement with twi, the baton was taken up by GreaseSpot Cafe. I remember the thread where we were given the chance to name the new website.
Lastly, here we are.... nearly 24 years later and going strong. Reaching out with warnings to the hearts and minds of others. Twi has no choice but to "monitor this website and keep their eyes on the enemy." Rosalie, bless her heart, was so computer-illiterate that she had Linder print out copies of our threads and placed on her desk. And, you can be assured that many of us are on their "blacklist." I wear it with honor.
All of this.... because we dared to ask questions that they refused to answer and recompense that they would not deliver.
When I exited twi in 1998, one of the first things I did was resolve to hold no sign of guilt. Why should I hold any guilt over my own head and heart? After all, THEY were the deceivers, the hucksters, the opportunists living off my sacrifice to serve twi. Yet, guilt is one of their many weapons. With incremental steps, each class gives them, they think, more access to govern our decisions and life. Remember.....having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.'
One is quickly able to put twi's leadership at arms-length from any more encroachment the minute the weapon of guilt is removed!!
With luminous clarity and serenity, one begins to see that twi holds NO POWER over you unless you allow it. Certainly, untangling this whole mess is a process.... but, for me, the beginning step was removing this guilt-weapon from further attacks on my conscience. I refused to think otherwise. Immediately, I began trashing wierwille's [sob-fest] corps letters that claimed "....you're corps, act like it. Stand with me." Then, I began dumping my Way Magazines....all of them, except one where I wrote an article on "Spiritual Integrity" [how appropriate, eh?]. Within days, I was going thru my correspondence files and dumping those. Then, after consultation with my wife.... we agreed that the collateral books were of no use and discarded them.
Six months later, Paul All*n had his run-in with martindale and left twi. Less than two months later, April 1999... he had Waydale up and running.
Explosions of eye-witness accounts started hitting the internet. Hundreds of posters came onboard to join the open discussions. It was easy to discern that there was this pent-up frustration and anger sitting out there just waiting for someone to strike the match. And, Paul was just the man to do it. He was computer savvy and devoted nearly 18-hours per day to monitor the site. His mission was to seek and destroy The Way and Martindale......hence, Waydale. Twi was caught flat-footed and had no idea how to stop this creation that they COULD NOT control.
I would stay up till 2-3am, because there was generally 10-15 people still posting away. It was so electrifying that I didn't want to sleep. Questions sought were questions answered.... promptly. Soon, there was a private messaging and a private chatroom. Holy Moley. Who could sleep will all this activity going on? I couldn't wait to get off work.... to come home and catch up on the threads.
Seemingly, after a few years [4-6].... many posters dropped off after lengthy post counts. Some came to vent, some to ask questions, some to be wierwille-apologists.... which all made for lively discussions. And, after Paul and Fern won their out-of-court settlement with twi, the baton was taken up by GreaseSpot Cafe. I remember the thread where we were given the chance to name the new website.
Lastly, here we are.... nearly 24 years later and going strong. Reaching out with warnings to the hearts and minds of others. Twi has no choice but to "monitor this website and keep their eyes on the enemy." Rosalie, bless her heart, was so computer-illiterate that she had Linder print out copies of our threads and placed on her desk. And, you can be assured that many of us are on their "blacklist." I wear it with honor.
All of this.... because we dared to ask questions [and tell OUR OWN stories] that they refused to answer and recompense that they would not deliver.
Exactly right. The more I questioned twi's doctrine.... the more inaccuracies I found.
Then, my understanding and relationship with Jesus Christ was restored fully and completely.
Of course, I was no longer the 20-year old transitioning thru college and life's challenges being pulled in several directions.... and taking the pfal class, to boot. Fast forward to 1999..... with Waydale/GSC backing, the sparks were flying with all the questions that surfaced.
Okay.... since this thread addresses questions, I thought I'd ask another.
This question has surfaced many times, and it came up in the thread A Series of Purges .... but I still am trying to unearth more understanding. Why was there such a dearth of ex-leaders NOT WILLING to come forward and EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
Except for Ralph D., Paul Mosqued@ and Alan Lich-t {some what] ...... why so few?
Was it because.....
There was money to be made by riding the same rails [doctrine]?
Men stayed silent, because they wanted to chum with their buddies and not rock the boat?
Many of these men were compromised in sex scandals of their own and kept their heads down?
Life moves on quickly.... and most just wanted to press forward, not look back?
Many were simply hirelings who didn't really concern themselves with the "flock of the sheep?"
Okay.... since this thread addresses questions, I thought I'd ask another.
This question has surfaced many times, and it came up in the thread A Series of Purges .... but I still am trying to unearth more understanding. Why was there such a dearth of ex-leaders NOT WILLING to come forward and EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
Except for Ralph D., Paul Mosqued@ and Alan Lich-t {some what] ...... why so few?
Was it because.....
There was money to be made by riding the same rails [doctrine]?
Men stayed silent, because they wanted to chum with their buddies and not rock the boat?
Many of these men were compromised in sex scandals of their own and kept their heads down?
Life moves on quickly.... and most just wanted to press forward, not look back?
Many were simply hirelings who didn't really concern themselves with the "flock of the sheep?"
A combination of two or more from above?
None of the above?
Thanks.
Thinking back through my own experiences sometimes I experienced shock like in an auto accident or criminal incident. My mind froze up and so things I saw somehow would not register to question later. Bizarre things.
A lot of times because I am not a fast processor with emotional intelligence I would just get run over and then like 2 months later I would process it and get upset.
Until GSC came along all of this had to be mostly processed alone, or in whispered talks with the spouse, or in guarded tones around other Corps because you never know who is going to write a letter to the board to accuse you of something. All of that happened around us with people trying to lovingly correct upward with scripture and then getting axed.
For anyone with org climbing aspirations like so many of these people have, all of that leads to more and more toxicity and dishonesty. They grow to the point they feel that protecting their position in the hierarchy is protecting “the ministry” so any Machiavellian action is easily justified.
Of the 3 you named I knew 2 of them and they also displayed snake like Machiavellian behavior towards others and some dishonesty and targeting others to preserve themselves. They were not whistle blowers I know people whose lives were deleteriously impacted from both of them.
I would say that all 5 of your reasons or a combination of them probably came into play for many leaders. At least on a subconscious level. I didn’t do the sex scandal bs activity so maybe it was more hidden to me - I only heard rumors. I will say that my own Christian parents are a better example than these clowns in this category.
I also would say that the reputation of the BOD for excommunication precedes them and causes people to not mentally process things but just leave them sit there.
So evil goes unchecked within the org. It’s only outside sources like here at GSC that you get the unfiltered truth on these matters. The whitewash society isn’t giving you any of it.
I suppose the answer is somewhat like a recipe, a little of this, a little of that, a whole bunch of something else...and everybody has their own recipe they tend to prefer.
I was never in the category of these guys or even anywhere close. I was just your basic Joe Believer kind of guy. Still, I can think of reasons I hesitated to speak out when I could have or should have. I had extended family in the ministry. I was the first in my family to become involved and brought these other people in with me. How could I tell them I might have done a horrible thing by bringing them in? Or, even, should I be the one to tell them? If I got thrown out of the little program I was in, how would it reflect on them? How would other believers treat them if they became vocal, too? And, what if they rejected what I told them? They're family. That part doesn't change. So, little by little, I drifted quietly out of sight. Was it right? Was it wrong? I don't know, but that's what I did.
Now, if these decisions weighed so heavily on me, how much more difficult must it have been for these guys who were in visible positions of leadership? We can guess about their reasons, I suppose, but, we'll never really know unless they choose to tell us. The cafe is open 24/7. They're always welcome to come in and grab a seat. First cup is on the house.
I do understand, at least I think I do.... the complexity of confronting these issues while IN the ranks of leadership. But I'm left questioning why a dozen or so didn't come forward after Waydale and/or GSC was up and running (the years, 2000-2005) to EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
I suppose the answer could be as simple as..... why hash thru the details after someone's been OUT for 15 years or more?
To me, I would think that some of these men would have voiced more compassion and empathy by helping to mitigate the destructive nature of twi. Ideally, that would have been the right and proper thing to do. Just like those ex-insiders in Scientology.... Leah Remini and others document a TV-series to expose L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige, Dianetics, Sea Org., programs, hidden practices and abuse, etc. Leah and others brought forth THEIR OWN STORIES AND EXPERIENCES to sound the clarion alarm of danger ahead. Sure, someone could read an article or go to Wikipedia to source these details.... but there is nothing like first-hand accounts to help shine a spotlight on the abusers and abuse.
In my files, I still have my 1985 clergy listing of like 380 twi-clergy. Were these men and women so pathetically self-serving that they didn't care to help those caught in the twi-trap? If so, then how anemic their stature and impact really was.
Okay.... since this thread addresses questions, I thought I'd ask another.
This question has surfaced many times, and it came up in the thread A Series of Purges .... but I still am trying to unearth more understanding. Why was there such a dearth of ex-leaders NOT WILLING to come forward and EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
Except for Ralph D., Paul Mosqued@ and Alan Lich-t {some what] ...... why so few?
Was it because.....
There was money to be made by riding the same rails [doctrine]?
Men stayed silent, because they wanted to chum with their buddies and not rock the boat?
Many of these men were compromised in sex scandals of their own and kept their heads down?
Life moves on quickly.... and most just wanted to press forward, not look back?
Many were simply hirelings who didn't really concern themselves with the "flock of the sheep?"
A combination of two or more from above?
None of the above?
Thanks.
Well, there WERE a few more, even from the beginning. RD joined w/a few to write the letter spurring the first big exodus. John Lynn, Tom R. and Robert B for example. Neither Robert nor Tom put much, if any, effort into establishing a spinoff ministry. But each of them could and did have entrepreneurial talent and redirected their life efforts AFTER their initial declaration of independence.
Therein may lie a clue or two to answering your questions. To my knowledge, also, neither of those two were caught up in the sex scandals. My impression was and is those two found point 4 above applicable to a significant degree. Of course JAL did start and operate his own spinoff, misguided as it could have been or likely was.
Well, there WERE a few more, even from the beginning. RD joined w/a few to write the letter spurring the first big exodus. John Lynn, Tom R. and Robert B for example. Neither Robert nor Tom put much, if any, effort into establishing a spinoff ministry. But each of them could and did have entrepreneurial talent and redirected their life efforts AFTER their initial declaration of independence.
Therein may lie a clue or two to answering your questions. To my knowledge, also, neither of those two were caught up in the sex scandals. My impression was and is those two found point 4 above applicable to a significant degree. Of course JAL did start and operate his own spinoff, misguided as it could have been or likely was.
Yes, there were a few people who gave assistance and/or a different perspective to helping people exit twi. Sue Pierce comes to mind as well.... but no one, or no group or website, except GreaseSpot Cafe has offered a full-expose' of wierwille's deceptive ways and scandalous lifestyle. Not even Waydale.... Paul All*n spent a majority of his energies on martindale's sins and shortcomings. The document section in Waydale put a spotlight on present-day twi, policies and corps teachings back in 1999 that were horrendous.
It seems significant that #4 is more applicable than any of the others. After all, corps in their mid-30's had a lot of responsibilities staring them in the face and bills to pay. After giving 15+ years in twi-servitude, there is simply plenty of career choices to weed thru and/or academia decisions to make. I remember all too well the mountain of stress and turmoil that I encountered at this juncture in life...... Insanity on Steroids.
So, it's fair to say that many, if not most, other corps who exited twi faced these pressures as well. Helping a friend in need is not a sacrifice, because love and concern are involved.....but if you devote a good portion of your life to "random acquaintances and strangers," it is an act of greater virtue. How many of these ex-corps had qualities of virtue extending outwardly to their fellow man? In my opinion, those who've stayed faithful to GSC's mission statement have done an excellent service to others, far greater than any splinter group, by exposing the underbelly of twi for all to see.
If this were my last post..... I remain confident in my decision to join forces with you all. We've done admirable work here at GSC by turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the religious marketplace of our day. With righteous indignation.... it has been done.
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Charity
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend
skyrider
Oftentimes, we hear when twi-followers finally decide to exit TWI..... they seek out a splinter group. Seemingly, deep down they must still cling to the twi-mantra that victor paul wierwille was chos
skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING. When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/sh
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skyrider
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING.
When the mind is free from twi-censorship.... questions flow freely. In my opinion, one begins to realize how many more questions he/she has pent up inside the crevices of this "renewed mind." LOL. A healthy mind is a questioning mind.
Did wierwille and company really think that we would "stay on the pfal-farm" a lifetime.... repeating its mantra as an invocation to this mythical, pfal-god? How insane is THAT? Only a narcissist could ever imagine concluding such a scenario for his followers. Same goes for all of their "advanced" study classes. Most all of these classes have been redone or tweaked over the years and "The Way Tree" class was completely discarded. Thank you Johnnie Townsend for that class... NOT. As so many posters have said.... such drumbeating of repetition is insanity.
Some question wierwille/twi only to a certain point.... and then stop. That's NOT empowering, that's not freedom. They are STILL tethered to certain aspects of twi's conditioning. It doesn't matter if they exit twi or not.... they are still way-brained by indoctrination.
Asking questions, free from censorship..... is EMPOWERING.
Try it. You'll like it.
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waysider
Let's get Mikey to try it. He hates everything.
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Nathan_Jr
7x70
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Charity
I left twi over 30 years ago and have not been comfortable in any church all that time. My mind kept judging their doctrine no matter how loving and accepting the people were. When I began to spend time on GSC, beginning with the Absent Christ thread, I began to see how much of twi's doctrine on the holy spirit field, the law of believing and the "word takes the place of the absent Christ" was inaccurate and had crippled my walk with Christ. It's only been four months and now I've started to fellowship with Christians in a church where I feel at home. A lot of what I'm seeing there lines up with what I've learned on GSC.
The important point to realize is that for me, I needed to begin having fellowship with Christ before I could fellowship with others who belong in his body outside of twi. What helped me to connect with my Lord was posting on GSC so the believers there could show from scripture how it is God's will that we have fellowship with Christ. Once I understood that and I could open the door to receiving him, he went from being someone I knew about in my head to being someone alive in my life.
I still read and send posts on GSC so I can continue learning and maybe help others as I've been helped.
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skyrider
Exactly right. The more I questioned twi's doctrine.... the more inaccuracies I found.
Then, my understanding and relationship with Jesus Christ was restored fully and completely.
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T-Bone
tremendous post, Charity!
funny how TWI messed with my self-confidence and in a twofold effect - I felt like I had a shallow or underdeveloped relationship with Jesus Christ because I wasn't spiritual enough. But all that’s changed now. By cutting out the middleman of TWI , I decide what I should study, pray about…and even just how to pray.
and in general categories for me frequenting Grease Spot Cafe helped me escape the us-versus-them mentality of TWI. I tend to be more open minded when listening to others - not just on GSC but listening to other viewpoints on TV .
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Nathan_Jr
I saw this bumper sticker today:
"A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose."
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chockfull
The generally accepted elements of emotional intelligence are:
1. Self Awareness
2. Awareness of Others
TWI systematized doctrinal error in scriptures to erode away strength in each of those areas crucial for interaction and survival in the real world.
Self Awareness - any kind of cogniscence of your own moral barometer is erased by “righteousness” and “believing”
Awareness of Others - an isolationist view is taught and lived - a view where not only all other religions are devil possessed (extreme superstition) but so are all the heads of the Christian denominations and the Popes. Some of this is hidden until the Adv Class where people have 3 yrs of immersion into cult doctrine.
As a result extreme obedience and conformity is demanded and expected unquestioned.
This process like the Stanford prison experiment transforms people into frames of thinking rather quickly and isolated them in to a small society that is very controlling. Time is consumed with multiple meetings and outreach and undershepherding and the follower is swallowed up quickly in the process.
Each stage leads to the next higher level commitment.
True Christianity is free and grassroots. Some churches seem closer to those roots others drift more towards other interests like prosperity gospel.
TWI is 100 percent it’s own isolated cult never interacting with the other 99.9999 % of Christianity.
In direct contrast to this Jesus Christ spoke of believing in him that “my yoke is easy and my burden is light”.
Christ bore the heavy burden and yoke of the law and judgement and gave his life so we don’t have to carry it.
Don’t take it back on your own back as some kind of martyr and live in chains.
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Rocky
Frankly, as chockfull's comment suggests, Wierwille's fraudulent take on Christian community, which is really the bottom line of the Way Corps(e), transformed participants and those said participants successfully proselytized into something other than those people's true selves.
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Rocky
I will posit that for a person to break the chains of waybrain in their lives, they will need to look at the bible with new eyes, no longer from the framework of parsing the meanings of greek or aramaic words, no longer from the framework of fundamentalist private interpretation (or even Wierwille's interpretation) of what might be God's true meaning.
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skyrider
Charity.... your post is tremendous but also saddening. For 30 years, you were alienated from a fulfilling spiritual life, from walking with your lord and savior, because of twi's jaded doctrine. Others have come forward to testify of the same. Twi's destructive doctrine compels twi-followers to make wierwille/twi the mediator between God and man. Twisted.
When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more..... lots of folks are going to be in for a rude awakening. None more than those who'd served twi's self-indulging and idolatrous agenda.
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Rocky
It's a journey. I've been on that road for more than 30 years. I like it.
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skyrider
Yes, it's a journey.
And, whether or not one chooses the Christian life or some other form of fulfillment..... at least, it's his/her choice. Rather than being intimidated and indoctrinated into twi-servitude.... NOW, by questioning all of it, one is able to be free from prejudices and judgments of twi-authoritarianism.
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Rocky
YES!
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skyrider
When I exited twi in 1998, one of the first things I did was resolve to hold no sign of guilt. Why should I hold any guilt over my own head and heart? After all, THEY were the deceivers, the hucksters, the opportunists living off my sacrifice to serve twi. Yet, guilt is one of their many weapons. With incremental steps, each class gives them, they think, more access to govern our decisions and life. Remember.....having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.'
One is quickly able to put twi's leadership at arms-length from any more encroachment the minute the weapon of guilt is removed!! With luminous clarity and serenity, one begins to see that twi holds NO POWER over you unless you allow it. Certainly, untangling this whole mess is a process.... but, for me, the beginning step was removing this guilt-weapon from further attacks on my conscience. I refused to think otherwise. Immediately, I began trashing wierwille's [sob-fest] corps letters that claimed "....you're corps, act like it. Stand with me." Then, I began dumping my Way Magazines....all of them, except one where I wrote an article on "Spiritual Integrity" [how appropriate, eh?]. Within days, I was going thru my correspondence files and dumping those. Then, after consultation with my wife.... we agreed that the collateral books were of no use and discarded them.
Six months later, Paul All*n had his run-in with martindale and left twi. Less than two months later, April 1999... he had Waydale up and running.
Explosions of eye-witness accounts started hitting the internet. Hundreds of posters came onboard to join the open discussions. It was easy to discern that there was this pent-up frustration and anger sitting out there just waiting for someone to strike the match. And, Paul was just the man to do it. He was computer savvy and devoted nearly 18-hours per day to monitor the site. His mission was to seek and destroy The Way and Martindale......hence, Waydale. Twi was caught flat-footed and had no idea how to stop this creation that they COULD NOT control.
I would stay up till 2-3am, because there was generally 10-15 people still posting away. It was so electrifying that I didn't want to sleep. Questions sought were questions answered.... promptly. Soon, there was a private messaging and a private chatroom. Holy Moley. Who could sleep will all this activity going on? I couldn't wait to get off work.... to come home and catch up on the threads.
Seemingly, after a few years [4-6].... many posters dropped off after lengthy post counts. Some came to vent, some to ask questions, some to be wierwille-apologists.... which all made for lively discussions. And, after Paul and Fern won their out-of-court settlement with twi, the baton was taken up by GreaseSpot Cafe. I remember the thread where we were given the chance to name the new website.
Lastly, here we are.... nearly 24 years later and going strong. Reaching out with warnings to the hearts and minds of others. Twi has no choice but to "monitor this website and keep their eyes on the enemy." Rosalie, bless her heart, was so computer-illiterate that she had Linder print out copies of our threads and placed on her desk. And, you can be assured that many of us are on their "blacklist." I wear it with honor.
All of this.... because we dared to ask questions that they refused to answer and recompense that they would not deliver.
.
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Rocky
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skyrider
Of course, I was no longer the 20-year old transitioning thru college and life's challenges being pulled in several directions.... and taking the pfal class, to boot. Fast forward to 1999..... with Waydale/GSC backing, the sparks were flying with all the questions that surfaced.
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skyrider
Okay.... since this thread addresses questions, I thought I'd ask another.
This question has surfaced many times, and it came up in the thread A Series of Purges .... but I still am trying to unearth more understanding. Why was there such a dearth of ex-leaders NOT WILLING to come forward and EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
Except for Ralph D., Paul Mosqued@ and Alan Lich-t {some what] ...... why so few?
Was it because.....
Thanks.
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chockfull
Thinking back through my own experiences sometimes I experienced shock like in an auto accident or criminal incident. My mind froze up and so things I saw somehow would not register to question later. Bizarre things.
A lot of times because I am not a fast processor with emotional intelligence I would just get run over and then like 2 months later I would process it and get upset.
Until GSC came along all of this had to be mostly processed alone, or in whispered talks with the spouse, or in guarded tones around other Corps because you never know who is going to write a letter to the board to accuse you of something. All of that happened around us with people trying to lovingly correct upward with scripture and then getting axed.
For anyone with org climbing aspirations like so many of these people have, all of that leads to more and more toxicity and dishonesty. They grow to the point they feel that protecting their position in the hierarchy is protecting “the ministry” so any Machiavellian action is easily justified.
Of the 3 you named I knew 2 of them and they also displayed snake like Machiavellian behavior towards others and some dishonesty and targeting others to preserve themselves. They were not whistle blowers I know people whose lives were deleteriously impacted from both of them.
I would say that all 5 of your reasons or a combination of them probably came into play for many leaders. At least on a subconscious level. I didn’t do the sex scandal bs activity so maybe it was more hidden to me - I only heard rumors. I will say that my own Christian parents are a better example than these clowns in this category.
I also would say that the reputation of the BOD for excommunication precedes them and causes people to not mentally process things but just leave them sit there.
So evil goes unchecked within the org. It’s only outside sources like here at GSC that you get the unfiltered truth on these matters. The whitewash society isn’t giving you any of it.
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waysider
I suppose the answer is somewhat like a recipe, a little of this, a little of that, a whole bunch of something else...and everybody has their own recipe they tend to prefer.
I was never in the category of these guys or even anywhere close. I was just your basic Joe Believer kind of guy. Still, I can think of reasons I hesitated to speak out when I could have or should have. I had extended family in the ministry. I was the first in my family to become involved and brought these other people in with me. How could I tell them I might have done a horrible thing by bringing them in? Or, even, should I be the one to tell them? If I got thrown out of the little program I was in, how would it reflect on them? How would other believers treat them if they became vocal, too? And, what if they rejected what I told them? They're family. That part doesn't change. So, little by little, I drifted quietly out of sight. Was it right? Was it wrong? I don't know, but that's what I did.
Now, if these decisions weighed so heavily on me, how much more difficult must it have been for these guys who were in visible positions of leadership? We can guess about their reasons, I suppose, but, we'll never really know unless they choose to tell us. The cafe is open 24/7. They're always welcome to come in and grab a seat. First cup is on the house.
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skyrider
Thanks Chockfull and Waysider...
I do understand, at least I think I do.... the complexity of confronting these issues while IN the ranks of leadership. But I'm left questioning why a dozen or so didn't come forward after Waydale and/or GSC was up and running (the years, 2000-2005) to EXPOSE TWI'S TRAPPINGS?
I suppose the answer could be as simple as..... why hash thru the details after someone's been OUT for 15 years or more?
To me, I would think that some of these men would have voiced more compassion and empathy by helping to mitigate the destructive nature of twi. Ideally, that would have been the right and proper thing to do. Just like those ex-insiders in Scientology.... Leah Remini and others document a TV-series to expose L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige, Dianetics, Sea Org., programs, hidden practices and abuse, etc. Leah and others brought forth THEIR OWN STORIES AND EXPERIENCES to sound the clarion alarm of danger ahead. Sure, someone could read an article or go to Wikipedia to source these details.... but there is nothing like first-hand accounts to help shine a spotlight on the abusers and abuse.
In my files, I still have my 1985 clergy listing of like 380 twi-clergy. Were these men and women so pathetically self-serving that they didn't care to help those caught in the twi-trap? If so, then how anemic their stature and impact really was.
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skyrider
Adding further.... I would be remiss if I didn't add the name of Charlene Edge to the list of those helping to expose twi's trappings.
Her book Undertow is a powerful read of her escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International.
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Rocky
Well, there WERE a few more, even from the beginning. RD joined w/a few to write the letter spurring the first big exodus. John Lynn, Tom R. and Robert B for example. Neither Robert nor Tom put much, if any, effort into establishing a spinoff ministry. But each of them could and did have entrepreneurial talent and redirected their life efforts AFTER their initial declaration of independence.
Therein may lie a clue or two to answering your questions. To my knowledge, also, neither of those two were caught up in the sex scandals. My impression was and is those two found point 4 above applicable to a significant degree. Of course JAL did start and operate his own spinoff, misguided as it could have been or likely was.
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skyrider
Yes, there were a few people who gave assistance and/or a different perspective to helping people exit twi. Sue Pierce comes to mind as well.... but no one, or no group or website, except GreaseSpot Cafe has offered a full-expose' of wierwille's deceptive ways and scandalous lifestyle. Not even Waydale.... Paul All*n spent a majority of his energies on martindale's sins and shortcomings. The document section in Waydale put a spotlight on present-day twi, policies and corps teachings back in 1999 that were horrendous.
It seems significant that #4 is more applicable than any of the others. After all, corps in their mid-30's had a lot of responsibilities staring them in the face and bills to pay. After giving 15+ years in twi-servitude, there is simply plenty of career choices to weed thru and/or academia decisions to make. I remember all too well the mountain of stress and turmoil that I encountered at this juncture in life...... Insanity on Steroids.
So, it's fair to say that many, if not most, other corps who exited twi faced these pressures as well. Helping a friend in need is not a sacrifice, because love and concern are involved.....but if you devote a good portion of your life to "random acquaintances and strangers," it is an act of greater virtue. How many of these ex-corps had qualities of virtue extending outwardly to their fellow man? In my opinion, those who've stayed faithful to GSC's mission statement have done an excellent service to others, far greater than any splinter group, by exposing the underbelly of twi for all to see.
If this were my last post..... I remain confident in my decision to join forces with you all. We've done admirable work here at GSC by turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the religious marketplace of our day. With righteous indignation.... it has been done.
.
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