Okay, I'm sensing it's not apples in the literal sense.
What kind of real strength is defeated by weakness? We that are stron ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. So, scripture doesn't support that statement. I wonder if he was keying from the section of scripture where it talks about "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners" from 1 Corinthians 15:33. When you decipher King James English it's basically saying that evil associations corrupt good character, or ethics. But weakness always brings down strength sounds like some ole BS that craiggers misapplied and used as a club to scare people into compliance.
What kind of real strength is defeated by weakness? We that are stron ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. So, scripture doesn't support that statement. I wonder if he was keying from the section of scripture where it talks about "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners" from 1 Corinthians 15:33. When you decipher King James English it's basically saying that evil associations corrupt good character, or ethics. But weakness always brings down strength sounds like some ole BS that craiggers misapplied and used as a club to scare people into compliance.
I agree.
You should be strong enough as a person to able to help others up, and also not to be changed easily by the crowd.
But you should also be aware of who you surround yourself with, since you will be influenced by them.
The feeling I remember associated with that phrase is one of heaviness and tunnel vision. People were being targeted?
The feeling I remember associated with that phrase is one of heaviness and tunnel vision. People were being targeted?
Oh yeah. Martindale targeted many many people for all sorts of BS reasons. He taught the corps the same practices and for a while you had little martindale clones like All@n L!ch7 or T0m L@lly. Those werent the only ones from the hitler fan club there were plenty others. It was fashionable to kick people out for a while. Smoking out homos was a big thing, for example -- there were many other reasons just as bogus.. Anyone even suspected of being gay was given the bums rush...well except Rosalie and her group. Anywho.
"Don't associate with those people you've known for years. Their weakness will bring you down."
Oh heck yeah! Now that you mention it, he used that BS line in light of not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, but his application of that was out in left field and was definately used to promote isolationism with only TWI folks period. Only the ones who were proselytised and graduated from from various classes were accepted.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like an attempt at isolationism.
"Don't associate with those people you've known for years. Their weakness will bring you down."
And likely contains a measure of insecurity and paranoia. Consider whether the purveyor of such nonsense acts as if s/he really believes "we are more than conquerors through him who loved us" according to the Book of Romans.
Is that how the phrase went? Is that the right wording? That's how I remember it.
In my view, opinion, and understanding, the phrase borrowed to title this thread is SO kiddywhompus, I believe the sentiment is so misguided as to be evil.
I posted the following to another thread (promised relief) in this forum just a few minutes ago.
[quoting Charity] Instead of overcoming worry and fearwhich the pfal class was promised to do for us,Twi useda lot offear and humiliation to keep people from leaving or disagreeing with them. From what I've read, many leaders became like stalkers - always keeping their 'i's" on other leaders lower on the totem pole which caused them to keep having to look over their shoulders. When people do leave,many THEY take their waybrain with themso it takes a long to very long time to become free of it. That's thecult'sdefinition of leadership.
Keen insight. The practice often did not match the promise. TWI has been totally devoid ofemotional intelligence. Ultimately, it's POSSIBLE for twi to become just another run of the mill fundamentalist Christian SECT, as opposed to cult. IF it intends to ever make that transition, it occurs to me doing so will require recognition/realization of the gap between promise and practice. Leadership toward that aspiration will look and act completely different from how wierwille, martindale and rivenback conducted themselves over the last 50 plus years.
Rather than brainstorming how youth responded in the 1970s (and attempting to revive theRock of Agesvibe) it will take leaders (NOT singular) willing to break the mold (and sort of like the preamble to the US Constitution declaring INTENT and aspiration to perfect the union). Willing to plumb the depths of emotional intelligence and vulnerability (seeBrené Brown's writingsandlectures/videos).
What Wierwille got wrong was largely: using people rather than loving them.
If you'd like to explore the concept ofvulnerability,proandcon, these two talks be Brené Brown can bring tremendous insight. And it won't cost you hundreds of dollars (i.e. you won't have to sign up for a lifetime of useless classes based on empty promises).
That was one of LCM's fave phrases at one time. Made me wince then, and makes me wince now. Can't imagine how he thought it would fit with:
Amplified Bible Now we who are strong [in our convictions and faith] ought to [patiently] put up with the weaknesses of those who are not strong, and not just please ourselves
and
Christian Standard Bible Now we who are strong have an obligation to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not to please ourselves.
New American Standard Bible Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and notjustplease ourselves. 2Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. 3For even Christ did not please Himself...
(or choose your own version of Rom 15:1)
Hey, did Christ get it wrong? By bearing the weaknesses of human beings? Was Christ's strength brought down by human weakness?
Are we not supposed to:
Amplified Bible Carry one another’s burdens and in this way you will fulfill the requirements of the law of Christ [that is, the law of Christian love].
And going forward: Haven't we overcome the weakness of our human abilities (not necessarily our human physical strength):
New International Version You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
YES! Martindale, IMO, was the epitome of Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. I've seen it in my life. I've seen it in local politics. It's reality. I see the verses Twinky highlighted trying to get that message about vulnerability across.
The antithesis thereof, is, IMO, captured in much of what Brené Brown discovered in her research and wrote about with tremendous authenticity.
Primatologist Frans de Waal illustrated it best when he described how Alpha males are NOT bullies. His research demonstrates this when he states, "the smallest male, when he has the right friends and keeps them happy, or he has female support, he can be the alpha." How does one keep his friends happy and get support from the females? It's certainly not rocket science. Instead, it's social psychology.
IOW, you got more with honey than with vinegar. There's a LOT to the concept of vulnerability being a demonstration of strength.
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waysider
I've never heard this. What does it mean?
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Bolshevik
I think it goes along with being unequally yoked and a rotten apple ruining the whole basket. And iron sharpeneth iron.
I seem to remember LCM among others saying it.
It sounds like a move to thin the herd, in order to strengthen the herd. Maybe move some into camps, I don't know. Might be purge related.
It could be about motivating people to not be the weakest link in a chain.
Outside of TWI you hear phrase like "You become the five people you spend the most time with" . . . letting go of people who hold you back
The use of the term "always" may be a concern. Context is always trivial and moot, right?
Edited by BolshevikI heard about a herd - words are made of letters and letters are symbols that mean whatever
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waysider
A strong apple is only as weak as the rotten barrel it's chained to.
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OldSkool
Yeah, that's it. That was a Martindale thing. He used to say that stuff often and about most anything.
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Bolshevik
Okay, I'm sensing it's not apples in the literal sense.
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OldSkool
What kind of real strength is defeated by weakness? We that are stron ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. So, scripture doesn't support that statement. I wonder if he was keying from the section of scripture where it talks about "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners" from 1 Corinthians 15:33. When you decipher King James English it's basically saying that evil associations corrupt good character, or ethics. But weakness always brings down strength sounds like some ole BS that craiggers misapplied and used as a club to scare people into compliance.
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Bolshevik
I agree.
You should be strong enough as a person to able to help others up, and also not to be changed easily by the crowd.
But you should also be aware of who you surround yourself with, since you will be influenced by them.
The feeling I remember associated with that phrase is one of heaviness and tunnel vision. People were being targeted?
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OldSkool
Oh yeah. Martindale targeted many many people for all sorts of BS reasons. He taught the corps the same practices and for a while you had little martindale clones like All@n L!ch7 or T0m L@lly. Those werent the only ones from the hitler fan club there were plenty others. It was fashionable to kick people out for a while. Smoking out homos was a big thing, for example -- there were many other reasons just as bogus.. Anyone even suspected of being gay was given the bums rush...well except Rosalie and her group. Anywho.
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waysider
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like an attempt at isolationism.
"Don't associate with those people you've known for years. Their weakness will bring you down."
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OldSkool
Oh heck yeah! Now that you mention it, he used that BS line in light of not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, but his application of that was out in left field and was definately used to promote isolationism with only TWI folks period. Only the ones who were proselytised and graduated from from various classes were accepted.
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Nathan_Jr
"I have no friends when it comes to the word." (Something like that.)
Isolation, insulation, paranoia, devil spurts everywhere, empties, controlled information flow...
Isolate to develop codependency. Typical NPD strategy.
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Rocky
And likely contains a measure of insecurity and paranoia. Consider whether the purveyor of such nonsense acts as if s/he really believes "we are more than conquerors through him who loved us" according to the Book of Romans.
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Rocky
In my view, opinion, and understanding, the phrase borrowed to title this thread is SO kiddywhompus, I believe the sentiment is so misguided as to be evil.
I posted the following to another thread (promised relief) in this forum just a few minutes ago.
Keen insight. The practice often did not match the promise. TWI has been totally devoid of emotional intelligence. Ultimately, it's POSSIBLE for twi to become just another run of the mill fundamentalist Christian SECT, as opposed to cult. IF it intends to ever make that transition, it occurs to me doing so will require recognition/realization of the gap between promise and practice. Leadership toward that aspiration will look and act completely different from how wierwille, martindale and rivenback conducted themselves over the last 50 plus years.
Rather than brainstorming how youth responded in the 1970s (and attempting to revive the Rock of Ages vibe) it will take leaders (NOT singular) willing to break the mold (and sort of like the preamble to the US Constitution declaring INTENT and aspiration to perfect the union). Willing to plumb the depths of emotional intelligence and vulnerability (see Brené Brown's writings and lectures/videos).
What Wierwille got wrong was largely: using people rather than loving them.
What Martindale got wrong was largely: trying to project an alpha male persona. He didn't/doesn't understand the meaning of alpha male. Vulnerability is strength. "Good vulnerability is fundamentally generous." It takes the first step in disclosure so as to render it safe for others to disclose.
If you'd like to explore the concept of vulnerability, pro and con, these two talks be Brené Brown can bring tremendous insight. And it won't cost you hundreds of dollars (i.e. you won't have to sign up for a lifetime of useless classes based on empty promises).
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chockfull
Whenever I hear some kind of vague generic Lifeline type of quote like this I always say
”Generalizations always generalize”.
Dats right.
Some of my friends clown on each other by calling each other “the weakest link” lol.
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Twinky
That was one of LCM's fave phrases at one time. Made me wince then, and makes me wince now. Can't imagine how he thought it would fit with:
Amplified Bible
Now we who are strong [in our convictions and faith] ought to [patiently] put up with the weaknesses of those who are not strong, and not just please ourselves
and
Christian Standard Bible
Now we who are strong have an obligation to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not to please ourselves.
New American Standard Bible
Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not just please ourselves. 2Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. 3For even Christ did not please Himself...
(or choose your own version of Rom 15:1)
Hey, did Christ get it wrong? By bearing the weaknesses of human beings? Was Christ's strength brought down by human weakness?
Are we not supposed to:
Amplified Bible
Carry one another’s burdens and in this way you will fulfill the requirements of the law of Christ [that is, the law of Christian love].
And going forward: Haven't we overcome the weakness of our human abilities (not necessarily our human physical strength):
New International Version
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
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Rocky
YES! Martindale, IMO, was the epitome of Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. I've seen it in my life. I've seen it in local politics. It's reality. I see the verses Twinky highlighted trying to get that message about vulnerability across.
The antithesis thereof, is, IMO, captured in much of what Brené Brown discovered in her research and wrote about with tremendous authenticity.
Primatologist Frans de Waal illustrated it best when he described how Alpha males are NOT bullies. His research demonstrates this when he states, "the smallest male, when he has the right friends and keeps them happy, or he has female support, he can be the alpha." How does one keep his friends happy and get support from the females? It's certainly not rocket science. Instead, it's social psychology.
IOW, you got more with honey than with vinegar. There's a LOT to the concept of vulnerability being a demonstration of strength.
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