the further away from headquarters, the less the "big dogs from headquarters" visited the state.
Seventy five miles of open road, that was the distance between Ohio Limb Hq (the home base of FellowLaborers) and International Hq. It's about an hour and a half drive. And, there was an airfield not far from Ohio Limb Hq, as well. In my multiple years spent at the FellowLaborer program, how many times would you estimate Wierwille visited us?
edit:
Spoiler: It's a number that resembles a goose egg. The only times any other V.I.P.s visited us was when they needed housing as they were enroute to somewhere else.
I'm not sure how that's relative to this discussion but I felt compelled to say it.
Seventy five miles of open road, that was the distance between Ohio Limb Hq (the home base of FellowLaborers) and International Hq. It's about an hour and a half drive. And, there was an airfield not far from Ohio Limb Hq, as well. In my multiple years spent at the FellowLaborer program, how many times would you estimate Wierwille visited us?
Over time the phone hookups became more and more of an emphasized thing. It was mandated certain numbers of common hookups to the Sunday service, and then weekly Corps hookups - all mandated attendance. You were even required to dress up in a suit around your kitchen table to listen to some of these. And they were INCREDIBLY BORING - filling in space with not scriptural teachings but reading can labels, practical advice and other nonsense where the most important factor was not the content but the butt in the chair for control.
I do not recall ever attending a Sunday Night phone hook-up until 1989, 1990. This was the start of those *rebuilding years* after 80% of corps exited en masse. Before then, it was laugh-out-loud ridiculous to attend a Sunday phone hook-up (unless it was Pentecost Sunday) because there was so much activity and good teachings at the state level.
Wheat berries.... no thanks. That was hands-down the worse breakfast served at Emporia.
Haha! Yeah, I remember being on breakfast duty for our house and forgetting to soak them overnight. As soon as I woke up, I quickly put them in a bowl of cold water and stuck them in the fridge before our morning run so I could cook them when we got back There's nothing quite so refreshing as starting your day with a bowl of tiny rubber ball bearings.
At Rome City we had pizza with chicken liver toppings...from the very chickens we killed! this belongs in a movie Silence of the Chickens
Haha…. that’s funny.
Being a farm boy, we did that with our chickens as well. At the time, I wasn’t repulsed by the slaying of a few chickens. It’s not like we gave them names…. and later, we out in the back shed to kill Chelsea Chicken. Now, my angus heifer named Blackie that I raised in 4-H… was a different story. As an 11-year old, I didn’t seem to grasp the fact that she would be sold at the end of the year at the local livestock auction. Then it dawned on me that I had raised my “pet angus” as a 4-H project to document costs and analysis to the point of sale for the slaughterhouse. Sad day.
But I would say that it was a far more common sight when we were pheasant hunting and needed to wring the necks of wounded birds. These were wild game birds, so I held no attachment with them. So, Silence of the Pheasants. No weeping Clarice.
Being a farm boy, we did that with our chickens as well. At the time, I wasn’t repulsed by the slaying of a few chickens. It’s not like we gave them names…. and later, we out in the back shed to kill Chelsea Chicken. Now, my angus heifer named Blackie that I raised in 4-H… was a different story. As an 11-year old, I didn’t seem to grasp the fact that she would be sold at the end of the year at the local livestock auction. Then it dawned on me that I had raised my “pet angus” as a 4-H project to document costs and analysis to the point of sale for the slaughterhouse. Sad day.
But I would say that it was a far more common sight when we were pheasant hunting and needed to wring the necks of wounded birds. These were wild game birds, so I held no attachment with them. So, Silence of the Pheasants. No weeping Clarice.
Well, farm boy – as an old city boy from New York, I actually loved all the farm stuff at Rome City campus. That’s probably one of the few things that made the isolation / intimidation / immersion / indoctrination / idolization ‘life’ somewhat bearable…even simple things like nights when I was on Bless Patrol, and we’d go by the pig barn – I got the biggest kick out of hearing pigs snoring – sounded just like when me and my friends were sleeping off an all-night drinking party…
oh yeah – also ‘farm life’ in general was inspirational…I worked in maintenance for one block and really liked John N33se (in charge of maintenance) – I like learning how things work and fixing stuff. Having a backstage pass to the chicken farm – I came up with a comedy skit and discussed it with John N – and he was on board with it.
Opening scene – corps night – everyone is filing into the chapel – there’s always two corps stationed at the entrance to visually give everyone the onceover to make sure they’re dressed properly and have their nametags on. Switch to a low handheld camera view “walking” toward the chapel – then is stopped by one of the ‘guards’ – who looks down disapprovingly. Switch to ‘guard’ view – and he’s looking down at a bare breasted chicken and says “hey, where’s your nametag?” He then looks to the side and sees a rooster with a nametag Rev. Cluck Norris …guard says “Bless you Reverend Norris” and lets him in…
The idea never got past the developing stage because when I pitched the short video to the assistant way corps coordinator, he didn’t like it. Probably because it was so irreverent to where the Word was being taught or something like that. Oh well, my silly imagination was another thing that made in-residence corps life tolerable.
Skyrider thanks for another incredibly comprehensive assessment of the way corps program – truly a gauntlet like you said – what an overwhelming…intimidating…and treacherous experience in order to become a mini-wierwille clone; which is weird because that’s not what I signed up for:
On 2/9/2023 at 11:30 AM, skyrider said:
(SNIP)
Whatever the encounter, you were about to run the gauntlet as they set their I's on you.
Introduction -- the entry point of your encounter
Involvement -- the beginning baby-steps of attending twig, coffee house setting, or pfal class
Isolation -- within weeks, you are subtly being isolated from friends, family, information, past activities
Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower
Immersion -- introduction of new classes, programs to reinstitute a new trajectory of your life
Indoctrination -- most notably found in their programs, Fellow Laborers and Way Corps Training
Idolization -- can be found at all levels, but mostly among adv class grads and corps grads
Most generally, the first two steps are found at the "twig level." In the early 70's, many of these twig coordinators had a special care and oversight of those in their fellowship. Broadly speaking, it seemed to me like there were hundreds of true shepherds guarding their flocks by night. Dozens upon dozens of GSC-posts give testimony to those early days of twigs and twi-involvement. Depending on how long you stayed in this arrangement, you might have been left with the impression shared by many....Short stay, good memories.
For those who were second generation and grew up in this cult environment, this scenario would be significantly altered.
Isolation...incrementally, began at the twig level, but there was still plenty of time and freedom to "live and move about to your heart's desire." But it was the programs like Fellow Laborers and, specifically, the Way Corps Program where Isolation increased a hundredfold. What was presented as "a college where the Word of God is taught," was pure bait-and-switch. The overall tactic was nothing short of Manipulation of One's Consent. What we had agreed to was twisted to mean that we were consenting to "a lifetime of twi-servitude." Intimidation tactics began in earnest to quell any of the rabble-rousers. The hierarchy of leaders over leaders created an atmosphere of always needing some leader's permission to do the simplest of tasks. During work assignments, one might need to go to the shop coordinator to check out a screwdriver for fixing shelves, chairs or whatever. Yeah, sign your name on a checkout list to be allowed a screwdriver!?! God have mercy if you didn't return the item and resign your name in the appropriate box. Bullsh!t intimidation.
The in-residence classes were straight-up cult Immersion. All classes were taught by in-house "Faculty".... ie, corps peers. Yeah, "in-house".... meaning that the echo chamber was growing louder as "the blind were leading the blind." In my case, we were being taught generally by the 5th, 6th, and 7th way corps. Much of the earlier corps 1-4 were busy with departments, limbs and regions to run. We didn't have any selection of classes or curriculum. Everything was block format. We were simply stationed at a specific campus and instructed to run ..... The Gauntlet of Classes and Indoctrination. With elder corps on both sides, I hoped to make it to "graduation day"... whatever that meant. LOL
By the second year in-residence, we were heavily into more Indoctrination. Privy to more meetings and encounters with twi-hierarchy, one could see the machinations involved to keep the railroad running. Some experts tell us that a young man's mind is not fully developed until the age of 25..... and, in my case, I think that's a fitting description. I saw these red flags, but still wasn't fully cognizant of the destructive and evil nature of the beast. I wasn't aware that wierwille, martindale and others were abusing young corps girls in the motor coaches, cabin 12 at Gunnison and on-campus apartments. The indoctrination took all the full spectrum of cult tactics.... physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual abuse.
Years ago, a poster named Catcup started a thread entitled.... The Nine Dots of Nonsense. Her opening post summarized very well how the corps program became a box of indoctrination.
Is it any wonder that scores of followers reached the point of Idolization of wierwille and his doctrine? Entombed in a world of isolation for decades from the outside world can do that to your mind. What you look at.... you become. Remember that? What you center your whole mind and soul on.... becomes the center of YOUR world. It's a known reality in the psychological realm. All those hyperbolic declarations of "wierwille's greatness" .... all those night owls where we sat cross-legged at those campfires listening to wierwille's bloviating .... all the "bridge-builder" poem reading wherein wierwille equated himself as some great bridge builder who took time to stop and help others to new horizons .... those mind-numbing readings of "A Day with the Wierwilles" ... the life-size bronze statue of wierwille in the auditorium .... and the need to stand with the wierwille family in order that the word will continue to live......SHEEESH. Could I please have back at least three years of my life from such nonsense?
The eyes of a cult, any cult, are always looking for new recruits. If there is a new generation of youth rising up at twi, I can only pray that they will be prodded awake by the hundreds of thought-provoking threads here at GSC. .
Skyrider thanks for another incredibly comprehensive assessment of the way corps program – truly a gauntlet like you said – what an overwhelming…intimidating…and treacherous experience in order to become a mini-wierwille clone; which is weird because that’s not what I signed up for:
That's the thing about a clone factory..... no originality.
Thus, it stands to reason that wierwille was not *original* anything. He replicated (copied) the works of others ad infinitum throughout his whole life thinking that somehow THAT constituted "greatness." And, with this pathological disorder, he set up a training program that mass-assembled copies of himself, the prototype. Further enhancing this delusional approach.... he highlighted a poem and tweaked its title to "What is the Way Corps?" wherein it referenced "the deeply springing powers of a believer unlike the contrasting ivory towers wherein dull denominations rule." That has DELUSION written all over it.
Which is all a fascinating study in and of itself. That wierwille could NOT see the disconnect.
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower
Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations" was utilized as a tool of intimidation. For example, you go to your first twig fellowship.... and within the first 20 minutes, the twig coordinator instructs someone to stand, speak in tongues and interpret. As a newcomer, who never witnessed this before.... you are stunned with silence. What was THAT?
After twig, you have questions and the twig coordinator tells you that all true believers can manifest the gift of the holy spirit. Really? So, these believers can do something that bears witness of God's presence that church people can't? Not until they are fully instructed comes the reply.
For the next few days (with follow-up phone calls and coercion).... you ponder these questions. So, after much consideration you decide to attend another twig fellowship. Again, same thing. You might find yourself intrigued AND intimidated at the same time. This person, these people, have a "superior knowledge" of something in the Bible that you do not have. It's intimidating to be around them when you feel inferior to them. So, you have a choice to make: Do you plunge forward and take this pfal class OR chalk it up to disinformation bordering on the delusional and walk away.
I'm not saying that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues or interpretation of tongues in the Bible..... what I'm saying is that I do not believe twi taught its application correctly of when, where and how it was used in the ecclesia of our time. It's not just rote repetition that is plugged into "a believer's meeting" every time people come together to teach, pray, worship. Nor is it to be used as a vanity show of "look at me." In its simplest terms, I believe that we were taught incorrectly on these worship manifestations.
And, how do you explain wierwille's repetitive LO SHANTA MALIKASETO, LO SHANTIE? That's a rhetorical question... no need to drag this thread into that area again. But I do see this as an intimidation factor that was used in twi to coerce movement and taking more classes to climb the ladder towards "full spiritual maturity." Whatever THAT was. LOL
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower
Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations" was utilized as a tool of intimidation. For example, you go to your first twig fellowship.... and within the first 20 minutes, the twig coordinator instructs someone to stand, speak in tongues and interpret. As a newcomer, who never witnessed this before.... you are stunned with silence. What was THAT?
After twig, you have questions and the twig coordinator tells you that all true believers can manifest the gift of the holy spirit. Really? So, these believers can do something that bears witness of God's presence that church people can't? Not until they are fully instructed comes the reply.
For the next few days (with follow-up phone calls and coercion).... you ponder these questions. So, after much consideration you decide to attend another twig fellowship. Again, same thing. You might find yourself intrigued AND intimidated at the same time. This person, these people, have a "superior knowledge" of something in the Bible that you do not have. It's intimidating to be around them when you feel inferior to them. So, you have a choice to make: Do you plunge forward and take this pfal class OR chalk it up to disinformation bordering on the delusional and walk away.
I'm not saying that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues or interpretation of tongues in the Bible..... what I'm saying is that I do not believe twi taught its application correctly of when, where and how it was used in the ecclesia of our time. It's not just rote repetition that is plugged into "a believer's meeting" every time people come together to teach, pray, worship. Nor is it to be used as a vanity show of "look at me." In its simplest terms, I believe that we were taught incorrectly on these worship manifestations.
And, how do you explain wierwille's repetitive LO SHANTA MALIKASETO, LO SHANTIE? That's a rhetorical question... no need to drag this thread into that area again. But I do see this as an intimidation factor that was used in twi to coerce movement and taking more classes to climb the ladder towards "full spiritual maturity." Whatever THAT was. LOL
I agree that the “worship manifestations” were a vehicle to establish control over the follower and as you accurately portrayed the attitude to immediately become “superior” to other “uninstructed” Christians, thus establishing the isolation and attitude early.
This also immediately separates out the follower from previous churches and Christian ties by false doctrine.
Having experience in running their Intermediate class many times, this is where the ridiculousness increases and is established. Like VPWs fake “lo shanta” repititions now all TWI followers do the exact same thing - with common language as well. Now you have full rooms of silently muttering idiots all conformed to say something grandiose off the top of their heads. I can never forget how the verbosity and formality of the language increases as you go toward those “initiated” meetings of Corps. There you could hear the spiritually heavy brethren bring forth messages that sounded as stupid as the greetings they would send in.
”Worship” is a private matter not for wandering around in sackcloth and ashes and making a spectacle.
TWI uses the manifestations as a club and calls all those who don’t buy on to VPWs flim flam artistry in I Corinthians “uninstructed” or “uninitiated” and thus writes off the rest of the body of Christ. While inflating the head up like a weather balloon.
What you see in the follower in these classes is a tremendous amount of fear. As a coordinator I was mostly getting people comfortable with the fabrication. Excellor Sessions getting people “fluent” in their lo shantas was part of it. If you can “a shonta” “b shonta” “c shonta” not scared with a fluency then you are good to go with the natural language invention also “I the Lord thy God do love you and have called you with a great calling”.
This is all not authentic. It is manufactured horse puckey. I’m not saying I’m God and know all the hearts involved but if you are duplicating a snake oil salesmen’s sounds then you are helping him sell the oil.
True worship is in private. True workings of the Holy Spirit are not self seeking and control oriented and ego magnifying.
I agree that the “worship manifestations” were a vehicle to establish control over the follower and as you accurately portrayed the attitude to immediately become “superior” to other “uninstructed” Christians, thus establishing the isolation and attitude early.
This also immediately separates out the follower from previous churches and Christian ties by false doctrine.
Having experience in running their Intermediate class many times, this is where the ridiculousness increases and is established. Like VPWs fake “lo shanta” repititions now all TWI followers do the exact same thing - with common language as well. Now you have full rooms of silently muttering idiots all conformed to say something grandiose off the top of their heads. I can never forget how the verbosity and formality of the language increases as you go toward those “initiated” meetings of Corps. There you could hear the spiritually heavy brethren bring forth messages that sounded as stupid as the greetings they would send in.
”Worship” is a private matter not for wandering around in sackcloth and ashes and making a spectacle.
TWI uses the manifestations as a club and calls all those who don’t buy on to VPWs flim flam artistry in I Corinthians “uninstructed” or “uninitiated” and thus writes off the rest of the body of Christ. While inflating the head up like a weather balloon.
What you see in the follower in these classes is a tremendous amount of fear. As a coordinator I was mostly getting people comfortable with the fabrication. Excellor Sessions getting people “fluent” in their lo shantas was part of it. If you can “a shonta” “b shonta” “c shonta” not scared with a fluency then you are good to go with the natural language invention also “I the Lord thy God do love you and have called you with a great calling”.
This is all not authentic. It is manufactured horse puckey. I’m not saying I’m God and know all the hearts involved but if you are duplicating a snake oil salesmen’s sounds then you are helping him sell the oil.
True worship is in private. True workings of the Holy Spirit are not self seeking and control oriented and ego magnifying.
Exactly right
And, of course..... no one EVER discussed or confronted wierwille with his "lo shanta" repetition or interpretation. Too intimidated to even think the thought of pointing out the obvious to wierwille's repetition. Why didn't HE practice the alphabet....ie "a shonta" "b shonta" "c shonta" ??? According to his limited vocabulary in tongues (and interpretation).... wierwille was a neophyte (a beginner). He never grew "big and fat spiritually" by speaking in tongues much in his daily life, did he?
The huckster sold his snake oil to the gullible. Many, if not most, were just too intimidated to ask the challenging questions. Wierwille, in his projected power and control over others, planned it that way. He ruled with fear and intimidation.
Notice that wierwille didn't want anything to do with the Intermediate Class. Why is that? Didn't he pontificate over and over again.... that "he had dedicated his life to the holy spirit field?" Yet, he bails out on upgrading the intermediate class. Why? He assigned Earl Burton to teach that class.
That's the thing about a clone factory..... no originality.
Thus, it stands to reason that wierwille was not *original* anything. He replicated (copied) the works of others ad infinitum throughout his whole life thinking that somehow THAT constituted "greatness." And, with this pathological disorder, he set up a training program that mass-assembled copies of himself, the prototype. Further enhancing this delusional approach.... he highlighted a poem and tweaked its title to "What is the Way Corps?" wherein it referenced "the deeply springing powers of a believer unlike the contrasting ivory towers wherein dull denominations rule." That has DELUSION written all over it.
Which is all a fascinating study in and of itself. That wierwille could NOT see the disconnect.
What Is The Way Corps?
Not ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers
Where dull denominational traditions
Rule with heavy hand
Believer’s deeply springing powers.
Not spacious pleasure courts
Or lofty temples of athletic fame
Where devotees of sports mistake a pastime
For life’s highest game.
Not fashion or renown
Or wealthy patronage and rich estate;
No, none of these can crown The Way Corps with light
And make it truly great.
But equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise
Who teach because they love the teacher’s task
And find their richest prize
In eyes that open, and in minds that ask.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE DISCONNECT: The poem reads that it is NOT ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers where dull denominational traditions RULE WITH HEAVY HAND... [or an isolated "headquarters" in rural Ohio that dictates and mandates policies where the chain-of-command leadership must be obeyed].
Maybe wierwille got hung up on the words "denominational traditions" and thought he'd escaped denominational policies and traditions... when in fact, twi became the very thing that wierwille seemingly denounced: Authoritarian control over others.
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower
Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations" was utilized as a tool of intimidation. For example, you go to your first twig fellowship.... and within the first 20 minutes, the twig coordinator instructs someone to stand, speak in tongues and interpret. As a newcomer, who never witnessed this before.... you are stunned with silence. What was THAT?
After twig, you have questions and the twig coordinator tells you that all true believers can manifest the gift of the holy spirit. Really? So, these believers can do something that bears witness of God's presence that church people can't? Not until they are fully instructed comes the reply.
For the next few days (with follow-up phone calls and coercion).... you ponder these questions. So, after much consideration you decide to attend another twig fellowship. Again, same thing. You might find yourself intrigued AND intimidated at the same time. This person, these people, have a "superior knowledge" of something in the Bible that you do not have. It's intimidating to be around them when you feel inferior to them. So, you have a choice to make: Do you plunge forward and take this pfal class OR chalk it up to disinformation bordering on the delusional and walk away.
I'm not saying that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues or interpretation of tongues in the Bible..... what I'm saying is that I do not believe twi taught its application correctly of when, where and how it was used in the ecclesia of our time. It's not just rote repetition that is plugged into "a believer's meeting" every time people come together to teach, pray, worship. Nor is it to be used as a vanity show of "look at me." In its simplest terms, I believe that we were taught incorrectly on these worship manifestations.
And, how do you explain wierwille's repetitive LO SHANTA MALIKASETO, LO SHANTIE? That's a rhetorical question... no need to drag this thread into that area again. But I do see this as an intimidation factor that was used in twi to coerce movement and taking more classes to climb the ladder towards "full spiritual maturity." Whatever THAT was. LOL.
Great post, Skyrider !
You got me thinking about what is communicated subliminally to a newcomer while attending Twig.
The newcomer sees the twig coordinator directing the manifestations.
I don't think what wierwille / TWI taught and practiced about the manifestations was biblically correct. I don't find a master of ceremonies in I Corinthians 14 . We don't have a video of their meetings - but is it possible folks just had a casual manner - if someone felt inspired they'd stand up and pray...or stand up and prophesy.
So many problems here. I don’t know if I have time right now to address them all -- I’m covered up with filling folders with unanswered questions.
Again, the fetshizing of teaching!!
It’s like the aspiring journalist who so desperately wants to write cinema and restaurant reviews because they have love going out to eat and to the movies. Loving these pastimes does not a critic make.
victor was not apt (skilled) to teach. A teacher who is apt does not hate questions. victor HATED questions. It seems Mike learned his evasion tactics from victor, as did my FC.
Indeed, besides considering how with the experience of living for a while (decades perhaps) a person can better recognize the traps cult leaders set up, with those years of experience, there are people who learn to exploit the vulnerability of youth. That's sad. Perhaps it's behind the call, in education circles, to teach critical thinking skills.
However, it occurs to me for a young adult to fend off those who would exploit, emotional/mental health skills are necessary additionally. It's not so easy to raise children who immediately recognize their own vulnerability. It also occurs to me the academy has or should have room for more disciplined study of the phenomenon.
I posted about Dr Lindsay somewhere else, who has documented fake intellectualism in our universities and how easy it is to mirror. These professors are the students of a generation ago.
Studying the history of the dating scene, multiple generations used to be involved in the vetting process. Now we put all decision-making onto very young individuals, generally and culturally speaking.
The more atomized we become, the more prone to mob mentality we become.
The huckster sold his snake oil to the gullible. Many, if not most, were just too intimidated to ask the challenging questions. Wierwille, in his projected power and control over others, planned it that way. He ruled with fear and intimidation.
THE (unspoken) choice always was to belong to the group (cult) or don't.
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skyrider
Looking back through the years of twi-involvement, I now see how this cult organization set their snares to entrap me. It is NO SECRET that cults target the youth and twi is no different. Through ye
skyrider
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations"
waysider
Ambulance chasers
waysider
Seventy five miles of open road, that was the distance between Ohio Limb Hq (the home base of FellowLaborers) and International Hq. It's about an hour and a half drive. And, there was an airfield not far from Ohio Limb Hq, as well. In my multiple years spent at the FellowLaborer program, how many times would you estimate Wierwille visited us?
edit:
Spoiler: It's a number that resembles a goose egg. The only times any other V.I.P.s visited us was when they needed housing as they were enroute to somewhere else.
I'm not sure how that's relative to this discussion but I felt compelled to say it.
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skyrider
Zero.
Do I win a prize?
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waysider
I was editing while you posted the answer but the judges have ruled in your favor. The prize is a lifetime supply of familia and fig pep.
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skyrider
I do not recall ever attending a Sunday Night phone hook-up until 1989, 1990. This was the start of those *rebuilding years* after 80% of corps exited en masse. Before then, it was laugh-out-loud ridiculous to attend a Sunday phone hook-up (unless it was Pentecost Sunday) because there was so much activity and good teachings at the state level.
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skyrider
Does it come with a supply of honey, too?
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waysider
Yes, but you'll need to provide your own wheat germ and flax seeds.
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skyrider
Familia and fig pep I like.
Wheat berries.... no thanks. That was hands-down the worse breakfast served at Emporia.
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waysider
Haha! Yeah, I remember being on breakfast duty for our house and forgetting to soak them overnight. As soon as I woke up, I quickly put them in a bowl of cold water and stuck them in the fridge before our morning run so I could cook them when we got back There's nothing quite so refreshing as starting your day with a bowl of tiny rubber ball bearings.
Can I get a "YUM!", brothers and sisters?
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OldSkool
Only local honey to help with the sinus problems that come with moving to sinus valley...
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waysider
There's an old joke in there about eating some local honey but, since it's off-color, I probably shouldn't go there.
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T-Bone
At Rome City we had pizza with chicken liver toppings...from the very chickens we killed! this belongs in a movie Silence of the Chickens
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skyrider
Haha…. that’s funny.
Being a farm boy, we did that with our chickens as well. At the time, I wasn’t repulsed by the slaying of a few chickens. It’s not like we gave them names…. and later, we out in the back shed to kill Chelsea Chicken. Now, my angus heifer named Blackie that I raised in 4-H… was a different story. As an 11-year old, I didn’t seem to grasp the fact that she would be sold at the end of the year at the local livestock auction. Then it dawned on me that I had raised my “pet angus” as a 4-H project to document costs and analysis to the point of sale for the slaughterhouse. Sad day.
But I would say that it was a far more common sight when we were pheasant hunting and needed to wring the necks of wounded birds. These were wild game birds, so I held no attachment with them. So, Silence of the Pheasants. No weeping Clarice.
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chockfull
Yeeeeessss! Nothing beats chicken processing day with fried chicken on the lunch menu.
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OldSkool
Thats sounds....well....just wrong....
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T-Bone
Well, farm boy – as an old city boy from New York, I actually loved all the farm stuff at Rome City campus. That’s probably one of the few things that made the isolation / intimidation / immersion / indoctrination / idolization ‘life’ somewhat bearable…even simple things like nights when I was on Bless Patrol, and we’d go by the pig barn – I got the biggest kick out of hearing pigs snoring – sounded just like when me and my friends were sleeping off an all-night drinking party…
oh yeah – also ‘farm life’ in general was inspirational…I worked in maintenance for one block and really liked John N33se (in charge of maintenance) – I like learning how things work and fixing stuff. Having a backstage pass to the chicken farm – I came up with a comedy skit and discussed it with John N – and he was on board with it.
Opening scene – corps night – everyone is filing into the chapel – there’s always two corps stationed at the entrance to visually give everyone the onceover to make sure they’re dressed properly and have their nametags on. Switch to a low handheld camera view “walking” toward the chapel – then is stopped by one of the ‘guards’ – who looks down disapprovingly. Switch to ‘guard’ view – and he’s looking down at a bare breasted chicken and says “hey, where’s your nametag?” He then looks to the side and sees a rooster with a nametag Rev. Cluck Norris …guard says “Bless you Reverend Norris” and lets him in…
The idea never got past the developing stage because when I pitched the short video to the assistant way corps coordinator, he didn’t like it. Probably because it was so irreverent to where the Word was being taught or something like that. Oh well, my silly imagination was another thing that made in-residence corps life tolerable.
Skyrider thanks for another incredibly comprehensive assessment of the way corps program – truly a gauntlet like you said – what an overwhelming…intimidating…and treacherous experience in order to become a mini-wierwille clone; which is weird because that’s not what I signed up for:
Edited by T-Bonean old screenplay is unearthed
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skyrider
That's the thing about a clone factory..... no originality.
Thus, it stands to reason that wierwille was not *original* anything. He replicated (copied) the works of others ad infinitum throughout his whole life thinking that somehow THAT constituted "greatness." And, with this pathological disorder, he set up a training program that mass-assembled copies of himself, the prototype. Further enhancing this delusional approach.... he highlighted a poem and tweaked its title to "What is the Way Corps?" wherein it referenced "the deeply springing powers of a believer unlike the contrasting ivory towers wherein dull denominations rule." That has DELUSION written all over it.
Which is all a fascinating study in and of itself. That wierwille could NOT see the disconnect.
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skyrider
4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower
Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations" was utilized as a tool of intimidation. For example, you go to your first twig fellowship.... and within the first 20 minutes, the twig coordinator instructs someone to stand, speak in tongues and interpret. As a newcomer, who never witnessed this before.... you are stunned with silence. What was THAT?
After twig, you have questions and the twig coordinator tells you that all true believers can manifest the gift of the holy spirit. Really? So, these believers can do something that bears witness of God's presence that church people can't? Not until they are fully instructed comes the reply.
For the next few days (with follow-up phone calls and coercion).... you ponder these questions. So, after much consideration you decide to attend another twig fellowship. Again, same thing. You might find yourself intrigued AND intimidated at the same time. This person, these people, have a "superior knowledge" of something in the Bible that you do not have. It's intimidating to be around them when you feel inferior to them. So, you have a choice to make: Do you plunge forward and take this pfal class OR chalk it up to disinformation bordering on the delusional and walk away.
I'm not saying that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues or interpretation of tongues in the Bible..... what I'm saying is that I do not believe twi taught its application correctly of when, where and how it was used in the ecclesia of our time. It's not just rote repetition that is plugged into "a believer's meeting" every time people come together to teach, pray, worship. Nor is it to be used as a vanity show of "look at me." In its simplest terms, I believe that we were taught incorrectly on these worship manifestations.
And, how do you explain wierwille's repetitive LO SHANTA MALIKASETO, LO SHANTIE? That's a rhetorical question... no need to drag this thread into that area again. But I do see this as an intimidation factor that was used in twi to coerce movement and taking more classes to climb the ladder towards "full spiritual maturity." Whatever THAT was. LOL
.
Edited by skyrideradd clarity
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chockfull
I agree that the “worship manifestations” were a vehicle to establish control over the follower and as you accurately portrayed the attitude to immediately become “superior” to other “uninstructed” Christians, thus establishing the isolation and attitude early.
This also immediately separates out the follower from previous churches and Christian ties by false doctrine.
Having experience in running their Intermediate class many times, this is where the ridiculousness increases and is established. Like VPWs fake “lo shanta” repititions now all TWI followers do the exact same thing - with common language as well. Now you have full rooms of silently muttering idiots all conformed to say something grandiose off the top of their heads. I can never forget how the verbosity and formality of the language increases as you go toward those “initiated” meetings of Corps. There you could hear the spiritually heavy brethren bring forth messages that sounded as stupid as the greetings they would send in.
”Worship” is a private matter not for wandering around in sackcloth and ashes and making a spectacle.
TWI uses the manifestations as a club and calls all those who don’t buy on to VPWs flim flam artistry in I Corinthians “uninstructed” or “uninitiated” and thus writes off the rest of the body of Christ. While inflating the head up like a weather balloon.
What you see in the follower in these classes is a tremendous amount of fear. As a coordinator I was mostly getting people comfortable with the fabrication. Excellor Sessions getting people “fluent” in their lo shantas was part of it. If you can “a shonta” “b shonta” “c shonta” not scared with a fluency then you are good to go with the natural language invention also “I the Lord thy God do love you and have called you with a great calling”.
This is all not authentic. It is manufactured horse puckey. I’m not saying I’m God and know all the hearts involved but if you are duplicating a snake oil salesmen’s sounds then you are helping him sell the oil.
True worship is in private. True workings of the Holy Spirit are not self seeking and control oriented and ego magnifying.
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skyrider
Exactly right
And, of course..... no one EVER discussed or confronted wierwille with his "lo shanta" repetition or interpretation. Too intimidated to even think the thought of pointing out the obvious to wierwille's repetition. Why didn't HE practice the alphabet....ie "a shonta" "b shonta" "c shonta" ??? According to his limited vocabulary in tongues (and interpretation).... wierwille was a neophyte (a beginner). He never grew "big and fat spiritually" by speaking in tongues much in his daily life, did he?
The huckster sold his snake oil to the gullible. Many, if not most, were just too intimidated to ask the challenging questions. Wierwille, in his projected power and control over others, planned it that way. He ruled with fear and intimidation.
Notice that wierwille didn't want anything to do with the Intermediate Class. Why is that? Didn't he pontificate over and over again.... that "he had dedicated his life to the holy spirit field?" Yet, he bails out on upgrading the intermediate class. Why? He assigned Earl Burton to teach that class.
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skyrider
What Is The Way Corps?
Not ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers
Where dull denominational traditions
Rule with heavy hand
Believer’s deeply springing powers.
Not spacious pleasure courts
Or lofty temples of athletic fame
Where devotees of sports mistake a pastime
For life’s highest game.
Not fashion or renown
Or wealthy patronage and rich estate;
No, none of these can crown The Way Corps with light
And make it truly great.
But equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise
Who teach because they love the teacher’s task
And find their richest prize
In eyes that open, and in minds that ask.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE DISCONNECT: The poem reads that it is NOT ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers where dull denominational traditions RULE WITH HEAVY HAND... [or an isolated "headquarters" in rural Ohio that dictates and mandates policies where the chain-of-command leadership must be obeyed].
Maybe wierwille got hung up on the words "denominational traditions" and thought he'd escaped denominational policies and traditions... when in fact, twi became the very thing that wierwille seemingly denounced: Authoritarian control over others.
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T-Bone
Great post, Skyrider !
You got me thinking about what is communicated subliminally to a newcomer while attending Twig.
The newcomer sees the twig coordinator directing the manifestations.
I don't think what wierwille / TWI taught and practiced about the manifestations was biblically correct. I don't find a master of ceremonies in I Corinthians 14 . We don't have a video of their meetings
- but is it possible folks just had a casual manner - if someone felt inspired they'd stand up and pray...or stand up and prophesy.
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Nathan_Jr
So many problems here. I don’t know if I have time right now to address them all -- I’m covered up with filling folders with unanswered questions.
Again, the fetshizing of teaching!!
It’s like the aspiring journalist who so desperately wants to write cinema and restaurant reviews because they have love going out to eat and to the movies. Loving these pastimes does not a critic make.
victor was not apt (skilled) to teach. A teacher who is apt does not hate questions. victor HATED questions. It seems Mike learned his evasion tactics from victor, as did my FC.
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Bolshevik
I posted about Dr Lindsay somewhere else, who has documented fake intellectualism in our universities and how easy it is to mirror. These professors are the students of a generation ago.
Studying the history of the dating scene, multiple generations used to be involved in the vetting process. Now we put all decision-making onto very young individuals, generally and culturally speaking.
The more atomized we become, the more prone to mob mentality we become.
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Rocky
THE (unspoken) choice always was to belong to the group (cult) or don't.
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