I've been looking back and finding errors like that, and many of them. Maybe this is what Rocky talks about regarding my poor writing.
May I plead bargain down to a lesser charge of sloppy typos?
If so, I will say that I've been thinking more and more that I need to avoid fast and furious flurries (FFF) of posting. They are fun, because it can be like a live chat.
But the notifications are another flurry of distractions as I hurriedly write to keep my response up at the high pace. And proofreading suffers the most.
I think to avoid this, I should wait when many are posting, but collect their posts in my MS Word, and then slowly respond to all on one document for posting when the traffic slows down.
*/*/*/*
Here is a 2nd draft of that enigmatic post of mine should have said:
"Jesus never laughed in the 4 Gospels" is accurate research, but it is not a very enlightened working of the Word, and even leads to real problems.
Another dubious research method is expecting Jesus to label everything and in modern English idioms.
*/*/*/*/*
I'm sure that wont pay for my mistake, and it is probably still enigmatic without the context. Only those who do the work to trace back to the original post, that the enigma was a response to, will see how it all fits now.
*/*/*/*/*
There was a sect or cult of hippie like Christians who believed that because the 4 Gospels never depict Jesus laugh, it is therefore a sin to laugh.
I met one of them at the 1974 Rock, who was protesting against the Way outside the perimeter of the grounds. He was a real sourpuss, and when he explained that "no laughing" doctrine to me, I was SO TEMPTED loudly guffaw.... but then I realized he probably saw that reaction before, so I withheld. I was then tempted to ask him if Jesus ever... but held back on that too.
Ok thx for the apology. Going back to what we were talking about it was the concept that you can’t add a cubit to your stature by believing.
Jesus taught this.
TWI turns attention towards epistles not Jesus teachings.
Instead of simply working the Word in the context of what Jesus taught VP invented a complex mental model called the GP which has done nothing but isolate Way members from other Christians and cause confusion as to living a spiritual life.
So instead of all the confusion to do with whether or not you have revelation to instantaneously grow a cubit, you start from Jesus teaching as being 100% true without adding on to it.
So the “law of believing” would be a whole line of thinking basically against what Jesus was teaching. Steer clear of it.
Trust God to take care of basic needs. Like the birds.
If you trust our Lord you don’t need to waste all that time and mental modeling on increased beeeeeeeeeleeeeeeeeeeeeeeving.
"My hunch is that in 1968, the plan was to have the GP explained better in the Intermediate and Advanced classes. "
Your IMAGINATION to the side, the Intermediate was completely redone from vpw's TIP class to Burton's Intermediate class, at vpw's direction- and yet there was no addressing of the so-called "Great Principle." If there was going to be a better explanation, there would have BEEN a better explanation. Since the GP is nonsense, there will be no better explanation- just your imaginary word-salad and excuses as to why vpw had the opportunity to do so, but never did.
and some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation period. Don't know if I've punctuated that correctly. Maybe it means some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation. ...like it's not debatable...maybe should use an exclamation point instead...ah heck shingles doesn't care...raptors don't give a damn.
Brother, don't let anybody dumb you down to their level. I find your posts informative, educational, and supported by copious references from various fields and disciplines. Reasoned debate should be along the lines of your posts. I tend to be a bit more terse mostly because most trollish posts can be summarized to a few salient points with out all the salad and the response can be minimal. I choose that method, but please don't stop being you and keep the information coming.
and some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation period. Don't know if I've punctuated that correctly. Maybe it means some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation. ...like it's not debatable...maybe should use an exclamation point instead...ah heck shingles doesn't care...raptors don't give a damn.
Ok Dude . . in the meantime I'll keep my eyes on this red dot . . . . in case it moves . . . better safe than sorry.
I've been looking back and finding errors like that, and many of them. Maybe this is what Rocky talks about regarding my poor writing.
It's AN example thereof. By no means is the example all encompassing. For the record, writing skills and critical thinking skills go hand in hand. Increase/enhance your writing skills, you're likely to do better w/critical and analytical thought.
TWI turns attention towards epistles not Jesus teachings.
Instead of simply working the Word in the context of what Jesus taught VP invented a complex mental model called the GP which has done nothing but...
You seem to imply in you post that Jesus wrote Matt/Mark/Luke/John as opposed to Paul writing his own epistles.
But the truth is:
(1) God gave revelation to Matt/Mark/Luke/John to record Jesus' pre-Pentecost teachings.
(2) God gave revelation to Paul/John/Peter to record Jesus post-Pentecost teachings.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
The Great Principle is nothing more than a pedagogical device to help those in our culture understand Biblical writings, with their embedded cultural understanding of how prophets and others would have "spirit" added for doing God's work.
Our culture is all messed up with the idea of "spirit" due to "ghost stories" and belief in life immediately after death. Also, our culture associates the notion of "spirit added" to be devil possession.
The GP is not a big deal in itself, but is great for unlocking the mystery of Biblical cultural and it's notions of "spirit added."
My working the GP lately is to help us understand better what the film class teaches on it. I can explain the GP to today's computer culture with the analogy of data interface structures.
I have a another useful analogy for understanding the "difficulty" God has communicating with beings that lack this interface of spirit.
Phenomena is where God causes sound and light to portray an angel in the form of a human with a message to a real human. At the receiving end the human is usually fearful and, strongly associating foolishness with all the things of God, being a natural man.
Natural man receiving such a phenomenal message is analogous to a wild animal encountering a human for the first time. The human may be able to produce sounds to communicate, but they are largely lost to the animal in their confusion and fear.
But when a natural man receives spirit, that interface makes up for the great communications inefficiencies inherent in lacking spirit-assisted communication.
The analogy for this efficient communication can be seen in pet dogs and cats or other domesticated animals. The DNA changes in domestication breeding and training serves in this analogy as an interface for communicating with humans, building contextual expectations and soothing fears.
*/*/*/*
Those of you following my GP explanations may see that it is evolving, as I work this topic further. I am now using 2 types of animals in my explanation, wild and domesticated. I am not sure yet if this is a better explanation.
... For the record, writing skills and critical thinking skills go hand in hand. Increase/enhance your writing skills, you're likely to do better w/critical and analytical thought.
Polished writing with proof readings and ample time go hand in hand.
Actually, what looks like a complaint from me about your long posts, is more often a plea to forgive me for not having the time to do a full reading and/or a full response.
I do long posts to deal with very complex ideas untangling errors and miscommunications. But when I can I prefer to keep my post length down.
I had written: "It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass"
T-Bone and OldSkool were wondering what I meant. I was just paraphrasing a passing comment I heard VPW say on more than one occasion.
Sorry I used that line without better explanation for those unfamiliar with VPW saying it.
The usual context for that line is someone experiencing a failure to see one of God's promises come to pass. I have this problem, and at times it rages. Everyone has this problem at times. Abraham had it; it took him YEARS to receive.
The way I calm myself down is by claiming the failure is TOTALLY on my part, and that the Word is still perfect, even if I NEVER see it come to pass in this time period before the Return.
Now I am in agreement with OldSkool's comment.
9 hours ago, OldSkool said:
Jesus himself taught that not one jot or tittle will pass before God fulfills ALL of his promises....
*/*/*/*
A more full form of the statement is:
The Word is still magnificently perfect,
even if I never see it come to pass in my doubt ridden life.
You seem to imply in you post that Jesus wrote Matt/Mark/Luke/John as opposed to Paul writing his own epistles.
But the truth is:
(1) God gave revelation to Matt/Mark/Luke/John to record Jesus' pre-Pentecost teachings.
(2) God gave revelation to Paul/John/Peter to record Jesus post-Pentecost teachings.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
The Great Principle is nothing more than a pedagogical device to help those in our culture understand Biblical writings, with their embedded cultural understanding of how prophets and others would have "spirit" added for doing God's work.
Our culture is all messed up with the idea of "spirit" due to "ghost stories" and belief in life immediately after death. Also, our culture associates the notion of "spirit added" to be devil possession.
The GP is not a big deal in itself, but is great for unlocking the mystery of Biblical cultural and it's notions of "spirit added."
My working the GP lately is to help us understand better what the film class teaches on it. I can explain the GP to today's computer culture with the analogy of data interface structures.
I have a another useful analogy for understanding the "difficulty" God has communicating with beings that lack this interface of spirit.
Phenomena is where God causes sound and light to portray an angel in the form of a human with a message to a real human. At the receiving end the human is usually fearful and, strongly associating foolishness with all the things of God, being a natural man.
Natural man receiving such a phenomenal message is analogous to a wild animal encountering a human for the first time. The human may be able to produce sounds to communicate, but they are largely lost to the animal in their confusion and fear.
But when a natural man receives spirit, that interface makes up for the great communications inefficiencies inherent in lacking spirit-assisted communication.
The analogy for this efficient communication can be seen in pet dogs and cats or other domesticated animals. The DNA changes in domestication breeding and training serves in this analogy as an interface for communicating with humans, building contextual expectations and soothing fears.
*/*/*/*
Those of you following my GP explanations may see that it is evolving, as I work this topic further. I am now using 2 types of animals in my explanation, wild and domesticated. I am not sure yet if this is a better explanation.
Hmmmm. No implications from me. Jesus spoken words were recalled from a direct teaching. You added in some malarkey about how if you had revelation then bla bla bla.
A pedagogical device. That is quite an intellectual term for chart.
Data structure interface is now making an even more far fetched analogy that even fewer have a background in to understand.
You keep on insisting God has difficulty communicating with humans. He doesn’t. He does what is necessary at the time.
The difficulty lies in your difficulty with a limitless God, some semi contradictory areas in His instructions, and your own ego which puffs up making you feel more superior to your fellow humans. This makes you lose even your humanity while getting all sorts of mileage out of labels like “natural man”. That wasn’t a zoology statement it was in a section explaining the different nature of logic between natural focus and spiritual focus.
Maybe one day you will get it all down exactly and you will be like your bronze idol.
It's AN example thereof. By no means is the example all encompassing. For the record, writing skills and critical thinking skills go hand in hand. Increase/enhance your writing skills, you're likely to do better w/critical and analytical thought.
He could show some emotion too. How else does one write so much and say nothing at all?
I had written: "It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass"
T-Bone and OldSkool were wondering what I meant. I was just paraphrasing a passing comment I heard VPW say on more than one occasion.
Sorry I used that line without better explanation for those unfamiliar with VPW saying it.
The usual context for that line is someone experiencing a failure to see one of God's promises come to pass. I have this problem, and at times it rages. Everyone has this problem at times. Abraham had it; it took him YEARS to receive.
The way I calm myself down is by claiming the failure is TOTALLY on my part, and that the Word is still perfect, even if I NEVER see it come to pass in this time period before the Return.
Now I am in agreement with OldSkool's comment.
To be clear, my post was challenging wierwille’s statement – mine was a rhetorical question, asked to undermine wierwille’s point; I could have said that doesn't make sense.
And what was wierwille’s point? I’ve heard him use the phrase in the context of berating followers after some fiasco with the corps program as well as various other failures to achieve a benchmark with other TWI-agenda. And in more general scenarios I’ve heard him use a form of the phrase to reprimand someone’s lack of believing – like even if what you were believing for never happens, it’s still God’s Word. He’d waffle around all kinds of ambitious claims, I remember one time he got off on some scatterbrained tirade about the monumental challenge of getting the Word over the world – and he said something like if we got the Word over the world in his lifetime, we’d see Jesus Christ come back 'booms-quick' – in other words, the failure of wierwille’s conditional phrase doesn’t negate God’s Word.
All of these examples presume biblically sounding goalsare promises of God – with a subtext in each failure that any TWI guilt-ridden follower knows means just because they failed to believe the promises of God - aka the more than abundant life as assured in PFAL – it’s still God’s Word.
I see that all as a misinterpretation and misapplication of Scripture.
As OldSkool referenced Matthew 5:18
New International Version For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
wierwille’s statement "It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass" soundsbiblical – but it negates what Jesus Chrisr said in Matthew 5:18 – another way to put it is if it doesn’t come to pass then it wasn’t the Word of God. For the ancient Hebrews, there was a safeguard to secure the predictive or prophetic elements of Scripture – as mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:22:
New International Version If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Thus, everything in the Bible that God said will come to pass - will happen. There should be no question that it won't.
For greedy, materialistic, health-and-wealth 'believers' that's a different story. "God's Word says I should prosper. I'm dirt poor. I don't understand it. I'm believing for it. I'm practicing the law of giving and receiving - going way over the tithe to TWI. I'm still dirt poor. wa wa wa all the way home in my WOW-moblie."
1 hour ago, Mike said:
*/*/*/*
A more full form of the statement is:
The Word is still magnificently perfect,
even if I never see it come to pass in my doubt ridden life.
*/*/*/*
The abbreviated form of the statement is:
"It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass"
This business here is backpedaling…with some of that conversational quick-change scam to boot!
Shame on you Mike! Quit trying to defend wierwille’s goofy phrases by revising them and running it up the flagpole.
wierwille’s statement "It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass" soundsbiblical
It actually is Biblical when you look at Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego properly applying the idea I heard in VPW's use of that phrase.
Can that phrase be improperly applied by someone? someone including VPW? yes!
I always heard that phrase to mean "When a failure happens with trying to apply the Word, or get results from the Word, that failure is ALWAYS on my part and never on God's."
I always heard, and always applied that phrase to a situation where I failed at my believing, or failed to find the right promise of God, or I didn't believe long enough, or I didn't act on it right, that it was always my fault and not God's....... because, as we all agree, God's promises never fail, even if they never come to pass IN MY LIFE, I know they will eventually for everyone at Christ's Return.
It actually is Biblical when you look at Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego properly applying the idea I heard in VPW's use of that phrase.
Can that phrase be improperly applied by someone? someone including VPW? yes!
I always heard that phrase to mean "When a failure happens with trying to apply the Word, or get results from the Word, that failure is ALWAYS on my part and never on God's."
I always heard, and always applied that phrase to a situation where I failed at my believing, or failed to find the right promise of God, or I didn't believe long enough, or I didn't act on it right, that it was always my fault and not God's....... because, as we all agree, God's promises never fail, even if they never come to pass IN MY LIFE, I know they will eventually for everyone at Christ's Return.
Nope !!!!!!!!!
You’re changing the category
Everything God said will come to pass means just that. No contingencies .
You’re a sneaky little goblin - you refer to Daniel 3 because to YOU that also SOUNDS biblical. I know the exact teaching of wierwille you’re talking about - and yeah that’s another one of those instances of him misinterpreting / misapplying Scripture that I was talking about.
Why don’t you READ what’s WRITTEN!
Read the following section of Daniel 3 and then I’ll point out how it differs from wierwille’s sensationalistic “sermon”:
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”
Daniel 3: 16 - 19
S, M & A (sounds like tech company ) were being pressured to deny God.
BUT
They chose to be faithful to Him no matter happened. They trusted God to deliver them - but were determined to be faithful regardless of the consequences.
You should quit holding onto wierwille’s super-duper believer power daydream. It’s a fantasy. Think of all those in OT and NT who stayed faithful and suffered dearly for it - many died - Hebrews 11 talks about that , and the history of the church is often written with the blood of martyrs.
I don’t know if I’d have that kind of faith if I was threatened to deny God or die. But I know this - wierwille was a self-centered ba$tard of the 1st order. His teachings, his classes, his books, his programs, his ministry - it was always ABOUT HIM! I don’t think the man was capable of compassion, empathy or self-sacrifice - I don’t care how much he made himself out to be Jesus on a stick.
If God always rescued believers who trusted Him - it would make God like a puppet on a string - and the Divine Puppet has a great insurance policy and self-centered people would line up around the block to sign up for that. Yeah that’s the kind of cheesy religion wierwille promoted! A god that one can control.
Drop your silly nonsense and learn to read what’s written. You can’t win this case no matter how many quotes you pull out of wierwille’s dead a$$.
You are continually missing the part where I say "...in my life."
That is where that meme is identical to THE HEART of what Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego said.
Both the meme in question and Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego are saying IN HEART the same thing, which is the following:
"Even if these promises of God are not happening today, now, in my life, I will still believe the promises of God, because they WILL come to pass in my life at the Return."
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waysider
I knew someone who died trying to make it work. Then, the ministry blamed him for not having big enough believing. He left behind a wife and 2 young kids.
WordWolf
Every once in a while, in society and here, there's someone who engages in this specific fallacy. "I must be right because I'm in the minority." "I must be right because lots of people keep insistin
chockfull
As a different direction with respect to all of the philosophical angles on the law of believing, I am considering Jesus teachings in Matt 6:27 “which of you by taking thought can add one cubit to his
Bolshevik
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chockfull
Ok thx for the apology. Going back to what we were talking about it was the concept that you can’t add a cubit to your stature by believing.
Jesus taught this.
TWI turns attention towards epistles not Jesus teachings.
Instead of simply working the Word in the context of what Jesus taught VP invented a complex mental model called the GP which has done nothing but isolate Way members from other Christians and cause confusion as to living a spiritual life.
So instead of all the confusion to do with whether or not you have revelation to instantaneously grow a cubit, you start from Jesus teaching as being 100% true without adding on to it.
So the “law of believing” would be a whole line of thinking basically against what Jesus was teaching. Steer clear of it.
Trust God to take care of basic needs. Like the birds.
If you trust our Lord you don’t need to waste all that time and mental modeling on increased beeeeeeeeeleeeeeeeeeeeeeeving.
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WordWolf
"My hunch is that in 1968, the plan was to have the GP explained better in the Intermediate and Advanced classes. "
Your IMAGINATION to the side, the Intermediate was completely redone from vpw's TIP class to Burton's Intermediate class, at vpw's direction- and yet there was no addressing of the so-called "Great Principle." If there was going to be a better explanation, there would have BEEN a better explanation. Since the GP is nonsense, there will be no better explanation- just your imaginary word-salad and excuses as to why vpw had the opportunity to do so, but never did.
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T-Bone
and some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation period. Don't know if I've punctuated that correctly. Maybe it means some who are misled are looking forward to the Raptor before the tribulation. ...like it's not debatable...maybe should use an exclamation point instead...ah heck shingles doesn't care...raptors don't give a damn.
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T-Bone
thanks OldSkool, I really appreciate that !
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Bolshevik
Ok Dude . . in the meantime I'll keep my eyes on this red dot . . . . in case it moves . . . better safe than sorry.
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Rocky
Neither does honey badger.
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Rocky
It's AN example thereof. By no means is the example all encompassing. For the record, writing skills and critical thinking skills go hand in hand. Increase/enhance your writing skills, you're likely to do better w/critical and analytical thought.
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Mike
You seem to imply in you post that Jesus wrote Matt/Mark/Luke/John as opposed to Paul writing his own epistles.
But the truth is:
(1) God gave revelation to Matt/Mark/Luke/John to record Jesus' pre-Pentecost teachings.
(2) God gave revelation to Paul/John/Peter to record Jesus post-Pentecost teachings.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
The Great Principle is nothing more than a pedagogical device to help those in our culture understand Biblical writings, with their embedded cultural understanding of how prophets and others would have "spirit" added for doing God's work.
Our culture is all messed up with the idea of "spirit" due to "ghost stories" and belief in life immediately after death. Also, our culture associates the notion of "spirit added" to be devil possession.
The GP is not a big deal in itself, but is great for unlocking the mystery of Biblical cultural and it's notions of "spirit added."
My working the GP lately is to help us understand better what the film class teaches on it. I can explain the GP to today's computer culture with the analogy of data interface structures.
I have a another useful analogy for understanding the "difficulty" God has communicating with beings that lack this interface of spirit.
Phenomena is where God causes sound and light to portray an angel in the form of a human with a message to a real human. At the receiving end the human is usually fearful and, strongly associating foolishness with all the things of God, being a natural man.
Natural man receiving such a phenomenal message is analogous to a wild animal encountering a human for the first time. The human may be able to produce sounds to communicate, but they are largely lost to the animal in their confusion and fear.
But when a natural man receives spirit, that interface makes up for the great communications inefficiencies inherent in lacking spirit-assisted communication.
The analogy for this efficient communication can be seen in pet dogs and cats or other domesticated animals. The DNA changes in domestication breeding and training serves in this analogy as an interface for communicating with humans, building contextual expectations and soothing fears.
*/*/*/*
Those of you following my GP explanations may see that it is evolving, as I work this topic further. I am now using 2 types of animals in my explanation, wild and domesticated. I am not sure yet if this is a better explanation.
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Mike
Polished writing with proof readings and ample time go hand in hand.
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T-Bone
Thanks for the reminder, Rocky!
I remember that bad-a$$ from your post on another thread
…You know, instead of the overused I’ma get medieval on you’re a$$
…maybe we could coin a new warning I’ma get honey badger on you
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Mike
Actually, what looks like a complaint from me about your long posts, is more often a plea to forgive me for not having the time to do a full reading and/or a full response.
I do long posts to deal with very complex ideas untangling errors and miscommunications. But when I can I prefer to keep my post length down.
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T-Bone
okay you're forgiven
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OldSkool
According to scripture Jesus gave the revelation to Paul.
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Mike
I had written:
"It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass"
T-Bone and OldSkool were wondering what I meant. I was just paraphrasing a passing comment I heard VPW say on more than one occasion.
Sorry I used that line without better explanation for those unfamiliar with VPW saying it.
The usual context for that line is someone experiencing a failure to see one of God's promises come to pass. I have this problem, and at times it rages. Everyone has this problem at times. Abraham had it; it took him YEARS to receive.
The way I calm myself down is by claiming the failure is TOTALLY on my part, and that the Word is still perfect, even if I NEVER see it come to pass in this time period before the Return.
Now I am in agreement with OldSkool's comment.
*/*/*/*
A more full form of the statement is:
The Word is still magnificently perfect,
even if I never see it come to pass in my doubt ridden life.
*/*/*/*
The abbreviated form of the statement is:
"It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass"
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chockfull
Hmmmm. No implications from me. Jesus spoken words were recalled from a direct teaching. You added in some malarkey about how if you had revelation then bla bla bla.
A pedagogical device. That is quite an intellectual term for chart.
Data structure interface is now making an even more far fetched analogy that even fewer have a background in to understand.
You keep on insisting God has difficulty communicating with humans. He doesn’t. He does what is necessary at the time.
The difficulty lies in your difficulty with a limitless God, some semi contradictory areas in His instructions, and your own ego which puffs up making you feel more superior to your fellow humans. This makes you lose even your humanity while getting all sorts of mileage out of labels like “natural man”. That wasn’t a zoology statement it was in a section explaining the different nature of logic between natural focus and spiritual focus.
Maybe one day you will get it all down exactly and you will be like your bronze idol.
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Bolshevik
He could show some emotion too. How else does one write so much and say nothing at all?
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Bolshevik
Is that your epitaph?
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T-Bone
To be clear, my post was challenging wierwille’s statement – mine was a rhetorical question, asked to undermine wierwille’s point; I could have said that doesn't make sense.
And what was wierwille’s point? I’ve heard him use the phrase in the context of berating followers after some fiasco with the corps program as well as various other failures to achieve a benchmark with other TWI-agenda. And in more general scenarios I’ve heard him use a form of the phrase to reprimand someone’s lack of believing – like even if what you were believing for never happens, it’s still God’s Word. He’d waffle around all kinds of ambitious claims, I remember one time he got off on some scatterbrained tirade about the monumental challenge of getting the Word over the world – and he said something like if we got the Word over the world in his lifetime, we’d see Jesus Christ come back 'booms-quick' – in other words, the failure of wierwille’s conditional phrase doesn’t negate God’s Word.
All of these examples presume biblically sounding goals are promises of God – with a subtext in each failure that any TWI guilt-ridden follower knows means just because they failed to believe the promises of God - aka the more than abundant life as assured in PFAL – it’s still God’s Word.
I see that all as a misinterpretation and misapplication of Scripture.
As OldSkool referenced Matthew 5:18
New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
wierwille’s statement "It’s the Word, even if it never comes to pass" sounds biblical – but it negates what Jesus Chrisr said in Matthew 5:18 – another way to put it is if it doesn’t come to pass then it wasn’t the Word of God. For the ancient Hebrews, there was a safeguard to secure the predictive or prophetic elements of Scripture – as mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:22:
New International Version
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Thus, everything in the Bible that God said will come to pass - will happen. There should be no question that it won't.
For greedy, materialistic, health-and-wealth 'believers' that's a different story. "God's Word says I should prosper. I'm dirt poor. I don't understand it. I'm believing for it. I'm practicing the law of giving and receiving - going way over the tithe to TWI. I'm still dirt poor. wa wa wa all the way home in my WOW-moblie."
This business here is backpedaling…with some of that conversational quick-change scam to boot!
Shame on you Mike! Quit trying to defend wierwille’s goofy phrases by revising them and running it up the flagpole.
Edited by T-Bonetypo
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Bolshevik
"Perfect" is utopian thinking.
Like the Tower of Babbel. Where everyone worked toward perfection together and then became divided.
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Rocky
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Mike
It actually is Biblical when you look at Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego properly applying the idea I heard in VPW's use of that phrase.
Can that phrase be improperly applied by someone? someone including VPW? yes!
I always heard that phrase to mean "When a failure happens with trying to apply the Word, or get results from the Word, that failure is ALWAYS on my part and never on God's."
I always heard, and always applied that phrase to a situation where I failed at my believing, or failed to find the right promise of God, or I didn't believe long enough, or I didn't act on it right, that it was always my fault and not God's....... because, as we all agree, God's promises never fail, even if they never come to pass IN MY LIFE, I know they will eventually for everyone at Christ's Return.
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T-Bone
Nope !!!!!!!!!
You’re changing the category
Everything God said will come to pass means just that. No contingencies .
You’re a sneaky little goblin - you refer to Daniel 3 because to YOU that also SOUNDS biblical. I know the exact teaching of wierwille you’re talking about - and yeah that’s another one of those instances of him misinterpreting / misapplying Scripture that I was talking about.
Why don’t you READ what’s WRITTEN!
Read the following section of Daniel 3 and then I’ll point out how it differs from wierwille’s sensationalistic “sermon”:
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”
Daniel 3: 16 - 19
S, M & A (sounds like tech company
) were being pressured to deny God.
BUT
They chose to be faithful to Him no matter happened. They trusted God to deliver them - but were determined to be faithful regardless of the consequences.
You should quit holding onto wierwille’s super-duper believer power daydream. It’s a fantasy. Think of all those in OT and NT who stayed faithful and suffered dearly for it - many died - Hebrews 11 talks about that , and the history of the church is often written with the blood of martyrs.
I don’t know if I’d have that kind of faith if I was threatened to deny God or die. But I know this - wierwille was a self-centered ba$tard of the 1st order. His teachings, his classes, his books, his programs, his ministry - it was always ABOUT HIM! I don’t think the man was capable of compassion, empathy or self-sacrifice - I don’t care how much he made himself out to be Jesus on a stick.
If God always rescued believers who trusted Him - it would make God like a puppet on a string - and the Divine Puppet has a great insurance policy and self-centered people would line up around the block to sign up for that. Yeah that’s the kind of cheesy religion wierwille promoted! A god that one can control.
Drop your silly nonsense and learn to read what’s written. You can’t win this case no matter how many quotes you pull out of wierwille’s dead a$$.
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Mike
You are continually missing the part where I say "...in my life."
That is where that meme is identical to THE HEART of what Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego said.
Both the meme in question and Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego are saying IN HEART the same thing, which is the following:
"Even if these promises of God are not happening today, now, in my life, I will still believe the promises of God, because they WILL come to pass in my life at the Return."
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