How is this attributed to The Way other than this individual was a Fellowship coordinator?
I wouldn't want to speculate.
I don’t know all the details. What do you know of Bowling Green and TWI? Probably more than one line.
I am sure you could say the same about the Tom guy who offed himself because Craig was doing it with the wife. And they did question the attribution to the Way to the point where everyone is convinced they have no culpability maybe the guy would have killed himself anyway.
Suicide is attributed to the individual.
However look at the Mormon guy I posted about showing increased suicides after the General Assembly of Mormons every year.
I am questioning what type of environment is there at BG with all the staff kids such that a 26 yr old HFC would jump in front of a train? In modern reformed times?
I don’t know all the details. What do you know of Bowling Green and TWI? Probably more than one line.
I am sure you could say the same about the Tom guy who offed himself because Craig was doing it with the wife. And they did question the attribution to the Way to the point where everyone is convinced they have no culpability maybe the guy would have killed himself anyway.
Suicide is attributed to the individual.
However look at the Mormon guy I posted about showing increased suicides after the General Assembly of Mormons every year.
I am questioning what type of environment is there at BG with all the staff kids such that a 26 yr old HFC would jump in front of a train? In modern reformed times?
AFAIF, suicide and crime rates have been rising since 2020. Cult or no cult.
Obviously I'm aware of TWI's presence in Bowling Green and efforts to duplicate at other schools.
I didn't know the individual mentioned here, and I see no reference from that person as to why they chose to do this.
I didn't know the individual mentioned here, and I see no reference from that person as to why they chose to do this.
Nor do I.
I see tremendous cognitive dissonance pressure on the children of high leaders in TWI and have heard many tales surrounding BGSU.
I am asking investigative questions.
Doesn’t sound like you know anything or have anything to contribute. That’s fine I’ll keep talking with you if you want.
I mean I’m not hearing tales of my kids friends in college in various religious groups completing suicide so I was interested in the story.
There was no note left so never classified suicide. But one doesn’t stumble in front of a train so my curiosity is engaged. I could blame it on my wife watching Dateline all the time.
I see tremendous cognitive dissonance pressure on the children of high leaders in TWI and have heard many tales surrounding BGSU.
I am asking investigative questions.
Doesn’t sound like you know anything or have anything to contribute. That’s fine I’ll keep talking with you if you want.
I mean I’m not hearing tales of my kids friends in college in various religious groups completing suicide so I was interested in the story.
There was no note left so never classified suicide. But one doesn’t stumble in front of a train so my curiosity is engaged. I could blame it on my wife watching Dateline all the time.
I've described my own near attempt here before. I was a teenager. I can state it was due to the conflict and pressure from The Way International and the other Christians around it.
In lieu of that, I moved to HQ. I know damn well the followers of The Way are out too lunch.
This person was 29 and married. I'm curious of their reasons, but is there a privacy issue? Why not ask her family?
I've described my own near attempt here before. I was a teenager. I can state it was due to the conflict and pressure from The Way International and the other Christians around it.
In lieu of that, I moved to HQ. I know damn well the followers of The Way are out too lunch.
This person was 29 and married. I'm curious of their reasons, but is there a privacy issue? Why not ask her family?
Sorry you went through that. Sure there is a privacy issue. No I don't think the family would like an interrogation.
I'm an amateur investigative journalist not a paparazzi one.
Trying to bring it up w/o being a morbid a hole. Too late probably.
Think Charlene was mentioned but I can't browse the documents from here.
Thx. Of course it's a paywall to see the docs. It seems someone completed suicide and some other person is suing the Way related to it somehow. I guess I'm not quite curious enough to pay uni courts subscription fee.
I have to figure TWI has at least indirect culpability for the situation. Anna could have had several possible/potential stressors leading to her decision.
Her job, her coursework, her marriage, or some kind of pressure more directly from twi; any or all of them or something else could have been factors. Very tragic.
I feel bad for her even now, almost two years after she died.
Way kids and Bowling Green have a long history. Many, many HQ kids (which means top leadership's kids) attend bowling green. At one time, 2000s, there were (I dont know about today) multiple fellowships on campus ran by way kids. They would also apply for RA positions, which many of them received.
These @$$hats would work on staff where they were basically poor enough to put their families on medicaid and would suck up any grant out there they could get their hands on for the poor and use it for their own kids. While many of the parents doing this stuff had bachelors, et. al. degrees and professional careers before working on staff where they could've easily figured out how to get their kids through school without leeching public resources for those who are truly disadvantaged and not disadvantaged by choice of working on staff. Granted, a lot of the kids would earn scholarship and were academically capable in their own right. I dont want to take anything away from the kids efforts and such because many of them did earn some decent scholarships that were hard to attain.
The thing that used to aggravate the heck outta me is the way international would hold up their own kids as examples of debt free college kids that they sent to BGSU on GRANTS for the poor as if that sort of thing is something your average middle class, abunbantly sharing way follower could pull off. The vast majority of the way international's followers arent poor enough to swoop up the same grants and such staff kids could qualify for because of their parent's low income. Anywho.
The RA positions were coveted because of the perks listed on their website and the position also gave them access to the community with a position of influence used to witness and push all things TWI.
Way kids and Bowling Green have a long history. Many, many HQ kids (which means top leadership's kids) attend bowling green. At one time, 2000s, there were (I dont know about today) multiple fellowships on campus ran by way kids. They would also apply for RA positions, which many of them received.
These @$$hats would work on staff where they were basically poor enough to put their families on medicaid and would suck up any grant out there they could get their hands on for the poor and use it for their own kids. While many of the parents doing this stuff had bachelors, et. al. degrees and professional careers before working on staff where they could've easily figured out how to get their kids through school without leeching public resources for those who are truly disadvantaged and not disadvantaged by choice of working on staff. Granted, a lot of the kids would earn scholarship and were academically capable in their own right. I dont want to take anything away from the kids efforts and such because many of them did earn some decent scholarships that were hard to attain.
The thing that used to aggravate the heck outta me is the way international would hold up their own kids as examples of debt free college kids that they sent to BGSU on GRANTS for the poor as if that sort of thing is something your average middle class, abunbantly sharing way follower could pull off. The vast majority of the way international's followers arent poor enough to swoop up the same grants and such staff kids could qualify for because of their parent's low income. Anywho.
The RA positions were coveted because of the perks listed on their website and the position also gave them access to the community with a position of influence used to witness and push all things TWI.
I originally ended up at a school because of the free ride, and not because they taught what I was studying. Then it was witness witness witness the thing I couldn't understand, The Word. And was told studying "The Word" affects your grades.
After dropping out of school, because The Way (The people now in, is it R&R?, were major part of that) Even then there all sorts of stupid decisions because of the debt policy twisting goals. For all the grants and scholarships choosing lesser options in education had long term costs. Of course J@ckie Horn@y wanted that all turned into a "victory sharing". She and Ed tried to repeat BG over here.
Such unnecessary BS. Undermine futures and claim credit for any success.
I originally ended up at a school because of the free ride, and not because they taught what I was studying. Then it was witness witness witness the thing I couldn't understand, The Word. And was told studying "The Word" affects your grades.
After dropping out of school, because The Way (The people now in, is it R&R?, were major part of that) Even then there all sorts of stupid decisions because of the debt policy twisting goals. For all the grants and scholarships choosing lesser options in education had long term costs. Of course J@ckie Horn@y wanted that all turned into a "victory sharing". She and Ed tried to repeat BG over here.
Such unnecessary BS. Undermine futures and claim credit for any success.
Egads, I didnt realize you lived through that mess! My post was aimed at the parents of the kids doing this sort of thing. Its approproate to see the experiences of the kids at times, thanks for sharing! They shared this stuff on way corps meetings to push the corps into doing the same type of stuff with their kids. Thats totally effed up that you were made to push all things TWI while on campus. Thats a lot of extra pressure in addition to the lecture/test educational model of most any university. Stressful to the hilt.
I have to figure TWI has at least indirect culpability for the situation. Anna could have had several possible/potential stressors leading to her decision.
Her job, her coursework, her marriage, or some kind of pressure more directly from twi; any or all of them or something else could have been factors. Very tragic.
I feel bad for her even now, almost two years after she died.
It is awful. But these things are on the rise.
On another thread I posted a video where someone discussed why cults are attractive, and it's related to why suicide, mass shootings, crime and such have risen lately.
So although this person was associated with TWI, they may have been involved for the same reason they committed suicide.
I also would like to blame TWI for all things that are wrong, but TWI is ultimately a symptom, not a cause.
On another thread I posted a video where someone discussed why cults are attractive, and it's related to why suicide, mass shootings, crime and such have risen lately.
So although this person was associated with TWI, they may have been involved for the same reason they committed suicide.
I also would like to blame TWI for all things that are wrong, but TWI is ultimately a symptom, not a cause.
I agree that there may not be a connection between this case and TWI. It is of note that there is a somewhat scattered trail of suicides that were related to TWI, though I hesitate to link this one.
On another thread I posted a video where someone discussed why cults are attractive, and it's related to why suicide, mass shootings, crime and such have risen lately.
So although this person was associated with TWI, they may have been involved for the same reason they committed suicide.
I also would like to blame TWI for all things that are wrong, but TWI is ultimately a symptom, not a cause.
This is a possibility. I guess if we read the court case documents and knew what TWI was being sued for in the case we would have a better picture.
But make no mistake they are being sued by someone related to the suicide. So it’s not nothing.
There are local suicides I read about in the news. There are some I have connections to. But I can’t think of a single one of those situations where the family or anyone connected is suing someone else over it.
What is TWI a symptom of? That a sucker is born every minute?
What is TWI a symptom of? That a sucker is born every minute?
From reading this site and personal observation, and the commentary on the video posted, people want to belong somewhere. When good alternatives are lacking I'm assuming delinquent organizations become more popular.
From reading this site and personal observation, and the commentary on the video posted, people want to belong somewhere. When good alternatives are lacking I'm assuming delinquent organizations become more popular.
Yes they do. I do. Finding connection post TWI is something I went to therapy for.
What I found was that there are plenty of good alternatives out there. Like install the Meetup app on your phone and look locally. And many many other alternatives that I personally had closed the door on due to my cultic mindset and condescending attitude towards those “not in the household”.
Once I corrected the doctrinal error in my brain cells put there by PFAL, there were plenty of good alternatives.
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chockfull
https://www.tributearchive.com/obituaries/20519475/Anna-Kelling
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Bolshevik
How is this attributed to The Way other than this individual was a Fellowship coordinator?
I wouldn't want to speculate.
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chockfull
I don’t know all the details. What do you know of Bowling Green and TWI? Probably more than one line.
I am sure you could say the same about the Tom guy who offed himself because Craig was doing it with the wife. And they did question the attribution to the Way to the point where everyone is convinced they have no culpability maybe the guy would have killed himself anyway.
Suicide is attributed to the individual.
However look at the Mormon guy I posted about showing increased suicides after the General Assembly of Mormons every year.
I am questioning what type of environment is there at BG with all the staff kids such that a 26 yr old HFC would jump in front of a train? In modern reformed times?
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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Bolshevik
AFAIF, suicide and crime rates have been rising since 2020. Cult or no cult.
Obviously I'm aware of TWI's presence in Bowling Green and efforts to duplicate at other schools.
I didn't know the individual mentioned here, and I see no reference from that person as to why they chose to do this.
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chockfull
Nor do I.
I see tremendous cognitive dissonance pressure on the children of high leaders in TWI and have heard many tales surrounding BGSU.
I am asking investigative questions.
Doesn’t sound like you know anything or have anything to contribute. That’s fine I’ll keep talking with you if you want.
I mean I’m not hearing tales of my kids friends in college in various religious groups completing suicide so I was interested in the story.
There was no note left so never classified suicide. But one doesn’t stumble in front of a train so my curiosity is engaged. I could blame it on my wife watching Dateline all the time.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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Bolshevik
I've described my own near attempt here before. I was a teenager. I can state it was due to the conflict and pressure from The Way International and the other Christians around it.
In lieu of that, I moved to HQ. I know damn well the followers of The Way are out too lunch.
This person was 29 and married. I'm curious of their reasons, but is there a privacy issue? Why not ask her family?
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chockfull
Sorry you went through that. Sure there is a privacy issue. No I don't think the family would like an interrogation.
I'm an amateur investigative journalist not a paparazzi one.
Trying to bring it up w/o being a morbid a hole. Too late probably.
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Bolshevik
I think there was a lawsuit when that young guy killed himself by sitting in front of a train.
That was due to an error. (Robinhood app, stock trading)
But there was a lawsuit.
Edited by BolshevikClarity
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Bolshevik
https://unicourt.com/case/pc-db5-vozzo-v-the-way-international-et-al-688232
Here's a personal injury lawsuit from 2020.
Think Charlene was mentioned but I can't browse the documents from here.
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Bolshevik
I recognize some of the names on the GoFundMe page.
Followers of The Way were donating.
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chockfull
Thx. Of course it's a paywall to see the docs. It seems someone completed suicide and some other person is suing the Way related to it somehow. I guess I'm not quite curious enough to pay uni courts subscription fee.
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Rocky
There's a very brief (one paragraph) news story on the incident on the Toledo Blade website. I got the link from the reddit thread.
I have to figure TWI has at least indirect culpability for the situation. Anna could have had several possible/potential stressors leading to her decision.
Her job, her coursework, her marriage, or some kind of pressure more directly from twi; any or all of them or something else could have been factors. Very tragic.
I feel bad for her even now, almost two years after she died.
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OldSkool
Way kids and Bowling Green have a long history. Many, many HQ kids (which means top leadership's kids) attend bowling green. At one time, 2000s, there were (I dont know about today) multiple fellowships on campus ran by way kids. They would also apply for RA positions, which many of them received.
https://www.bgsu.edu/residence-life/employment-opportunities/ResidentAdvisor.html
These @$$hats would work on staff where they were basically poor enough to put their families on medicaid and would suck up any grant out there they could get their hands on for the poor and use it for their own kids. While many of the parents doing this stuff had bachelors, et. al. degrees and professional careers before working on staff where they could've easily figured out how to get their kids through school without leeching public resources for those who are truly disadvantaged and not disadvantaged by choice of working on staff. Granted, a lot of the kids would earn scholarship and were academically capable in their own right. I dont want to take anything away from the kids efforts and such because many of them did earn some decent scholarships that were hard to attain.
The thing that used to aggravate the heck outta me is the way international would hold up their own kids as examples of debt free college kids that they sent to BGSU on GRANTS for the poor as if that sort of thing is something your average middle class, abunbantly sharing way follower could pull off. The vast majority of the way international's followers arent poor enough to swoop up the same grants and such staff kids could qualify for because of their parent's low income. Anywho.
The RA positions were coveted because of the perks listed on their website and the position also gave them access to the community with a position of influence used to witness and push all things TWI.
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Bolshevik
I originally ended up at a school because of the free ride, and not because they taught what I was studying. Then it was witness witness witness the thing I couldn't understand, The Word. And was told studying "The Word" affects your grades.
After dropping out of school, because The Way (The people now in, is it R&R?, were major part of that) Even then there all sorts of stupid decisions because of the debt policy twisting goals. For all the grants and scholarships choosing lesser options in education had long term costs. Of course J@ckie Horn@y wanted that all turned into a "victory sharing". She and Ed tried to repeat BG over here.
Such unnecessary BS. Undermine futures and claim credit for any success.
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OldSkool
Egads, I didnt realize you lived through that mess! My post was aimed at the parents of the kids doing this sort of thing. Its approproate to see the experiences of the kids at times, thanks for sharing! They shared this stuff on way corps meetings to push the corps into doing the same type of stuff with their kids. Thats totally effed up that you were made to push all things TWI while on campus. Thats a lot of extra pressure in addition to the lecture/test educational model of most any university. Stressful to the hilt.
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Bolshevik
It is awful. But these things are on the rise.
On another thread I posted a video where someone discussed why cults are attractive, and it's related to why suicide, mass shootings, crime and such have risen lately.
So although this person was associated with TWI, they may have been involved for the same reason they committed suicide.
I also would like to blame TWI for all things that are wrong, but TWI is ultimately a symptom, not a cause.
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OldSkool
I agree that there may not be a connection between this case and TWI. It is of note that there is a somewhat scattered trail of suicides that were related to TWI, though I hesitate to link this one.
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chockfull
This is a possibility. I guess if we read the court case documents and knew what TWI was being sued for in the case we would have a better picture.
But make no mistake they are being sued by someone related to the suicide. So it’s not nothing.
There are local suicides I read about in the news. There are some I have connections to. But I can’t think of a single one of those situations where the family or anyone connected is suing someone else over it.
What is TWI a symptom of? That a sucker is born every minute?
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Bolshevik
From reading this site and personal observation, and the commentary on the video posted, people want to belong somewhere. When good alternatives are lacking I'm assuming delinquent organizations become more popular.
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chockfull
Yes they do. I do. Finding connection post TWI is something I went to therapy for.
What I found was that there are plenty of good alternatives out there. Like install the Meetup app on your phone and look locally. And many many other alternatives that I personally had closed the door on due to my cultic mindset and condescending attitude towards those “not in the household”.
Once I corrected the doctrinal error in my brain cells put there by PFAL, there were plenty of good alternatives.
Others mileage may vary.
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Rocky
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