Research Department

[Bolshevik]

3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

True – but just think if devil spirits could make scrambled eggs out of the Bible just imagine what they could do to a thread – Threggs Benedict…getting beaten up while off the beaten path beats the hell out of QAnon-like sedition…uhm… that’s if you’re even into that sorta thing… sadomasochistically speaking of course. 

Genesis 1:2 -

The spirit of God brooded over the waters - like a hen on eggs

Another thought as to the Holy Spirit being feminine

[Mike]

35 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Wouldn't a political idea be establishing Israel to maintain influence in the Middle East?  Because oil.  

Can't see why one would need conspiracy theories when the need for globalized influence was paramount.

 

The politics part was only secondary in my theory of why TWI Bookstore had those odd books in the Bookstore. 

My theory is that VPW saw how Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" was seriously misleading Christians with timetables for the Return of Christ BASED ON 1949 being the year of a BIBLICAL PROPHESY being fulfilled.  That fulfillment was the United Nations establishing the modern state of Israel in 1949.

THEN Hal Lindsey says the NEXT Biblical prophecy fulfilled will be ...such and such a scripture on such and such a date.  His whole book was that way.  It was a best seller, and the sequel also, and I think the sequel's sequel.  Christians were running up their credit cards with massive debt based on these predictions. It was a mess.... I hear.  I knew a couple of Hal Lindsey fans back then (1970?) but they were fortunately cautious enough to not be so stupid. But there were newspaper articles of crazy things a few were doing. This is roughly 1970-74.

SOOOOOOOOO,  VPW came out and said that the 1949 prophecy fulfullment was a counterfeit.

THEN, a year or two later came the odd books, myth 6 million and 13 tribe, in the bookstore.

I think that is how it went down circa 1975ish.

[Bolshevik]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

 

The politics part was only secondary in my theory of why TWI Bookstore had those odd books in the Bookstore. 

My theory is that VPW saw how Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" was seriously misleading Christians with timetables for the Return of Christ BASED ON 1949 being the year of a BIBLICAL PROPHESY being fulfilled.  That fulfillment was the United Nations establishing the modern state of Israel in 1949.

THEN Hal Lindsey says the NEXT Biblical prophecy fulfilled will be ...such and such a scripture on such and such a date.  His whole book was that way.  It was a best seller, and the sequel also, and I think the sequel's sequel.  Christians were running up their credit cards with massive debt based on these predictions. It was a mess.... I hear.  I knew a couple of Hal Lindsey fans back then (1970?) but they were fortunately cautious enough to not be so stupid. But there were newspaper articles of crazy things a few were doing. This is roughly 1970-74.

SOOOOOOOOO,  VPW came out and said that the 1949 prophecy fulfullment was a counterfeit.

THEN, a year or two later came the odd books, myth 6 million and 13 tribe, in the bookstore.

I think that is how it went down circa 1975ish.

The TWI bookstore had silly books because The Way drew in people who were easily "oooed" and "aaahhhed" and would rather be spoon fed horse pucky than do any real work.

[OldSkool]

8 minutes ago, Mike said:

SOOOOOOOOO,  VPW came out and said that the 1949 prophecy fulfullment was a counterfeit.

Kinda hypocritical of st vic considering he made his own counterfeit with the 1942 promise and snow on the pumps in September type stuff...what's the difference? I don't see a problem when false prophets disagree....they were both lying anyway.

[Mike]

46 minutes ago, chockfull said:

 

Thanks for the link, but 5 pages may be a bit much to search for a tiny factoid like I asked. I had simply HEARD that the book Myth 6M was saying the numbers were exaggerated to influence the UN decision in 1949 to establish Israel.  I simply heard that, was uninterested, and never had the desire to look into it more, and especially not to read the book.  The 5 page thread I just looked at looks like FAR MORE material than I am looking for.   

Has anyone here read that book?

[T-Bone]

15 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The TWI bookstore had silly books because The Way drew in people who were easily "oooed" and "aaahhhed" and would rather be spoon fed horse pucky than do any real work.

There’s something about a cult-mentality that’s common in some religious and political circles…Steven Hassan the author of    Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves     and    Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults     has written another fascinating book about a cult of personality – but since politics is a no-no on Grease Spot Café I’ll leave it up to you to click on this hyperlink, that has been encrypted to protect the indolent >   The Cult of Orange-Hole: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the Orange-Hole Uses Mind Control

[Bolshevik]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

Thanks for the link, but 5 pages may be a bit much to search for a tiny factoid like I asked. I had simply HEARD that the book Myth 6M was saying the numbers were exaggerated to influence the UN decision in 1949 to establish Israel.  I simply heard that, was uninterested, and never had the desire to look into it more, and especially not to read the book.  The 5 page thread I just looked at looks like FAR MORE material than I am looking for.   

Has anyone here read that book?

 

What number exactly would have changed any decision?

https://www.ilholocaustmuseum.org/the-holocaust-in-the-soviet-union/

 

[T-Bone]

27 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Genesis 1:2 -

The spirit of God brooded over the waters - like a hen on eggs

Another thought as to the Holy Spirit being feminine

Yeah – I’ve often thought if God created beings who are male and female, He/She must  know  something about what all that involves. From what little I remember of science/biology we have a mix of both in us too.

 

[Bolshevik]

4 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

There’s something about a cult-mentality that’s common in some religious and political circles…Steven Hassan the author of    Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves     and    Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults     has written another fascinating book about a cult of personality – but since politics is a no-no on Grease Spot Café I’ll leave it up to you to click on this hyperlink, that has been encrypted to protect the indolent >   The Cult of Orange-Hole: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the Orange-Hole Uses Mind Control

Chirps are an example of how social media creates a mob.  Boundaries are eliminated.  Misinformation is transmitted and incorporated within the masses.

[Bolshevik]

3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Yeah – I’ve often thought if God created beings who are male and female, He/She must  know  something about what all that involves. From what little I remember of science/biology we have a mix of both in us too.

 

Well in this case the 3rd person, the progeny, would be mixed in as well.  

Did the Research Department look into all these other ideas out there?

[Nathan_Jr]

16 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Well in this case the 3rd person, the progeny, would be mixed in as well.  

Did the Research Department look into all these other ideas out there?

That would require research, wouldn’t it?

[Bolshevik]

1 minute ago, Nathan_Jr said:

That would require research, wouldn’t it?

Crap . . . I've been so busy I haven't read a book about it . . . . I mean I've gotten through the title but soooo busy

. . . . . .

I asked a lot of questions years ago.  Blank faces.  Blank faces everywhere.  It boggles the mind how some people are content to stay where they are year after year after year after year.

Being handed pre-cut responses is noticeable, even for kids.

If two people are saying the same things . . . are they two separate individuals?  If you can guess what they will say without taking into account who they are . . . when the person doesn't matter . . . like people are interchangeable parts in an ideology

[Nathan_Jr]

6 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Crap . . . I've been so busy I haven't read a book about it . . . . I mean I've gotten through the title but soooo busy

. . . . . .

I asked a lot of questions years ago.  Blank faces.  Blank faces everywhere.  It boggles the mind how some people are content to stay where they are year after year after year after year.

Being handed pre-cut responses is noticeable, even for kids.

If two people are saying the same things . . . are they two separate individuals?  If you can guess what they will say without taking into account who they are . . . when the person doesn't matter . . . like people are interchangeable parts in an ideology

In 1949, seven years after precious 1942, George Orwell published a book.

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

In 1949, seven years after precious 1942, George Orwell published a book.

Clockwork Orange is also a book.

Some people are orange.

The use of fear is quite the motivator.

The fear of mind-control is also a motivator.

[Nathan_Jr]

2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Clockwork Orange is also a book.

Some people are orange.

The use of fear is quite the motivator.

The fear of mind-control is also a motivator.

Some books are orange.

 Some people are afraid of their own mind controlling their own mind. Rely not on your understanding. Renew your mind to groupthink. 

[Nathan_Jr]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

When was that? 

BTW, I always noted in the 1970s that the second and third times through the class were when the most learning happened.

Asked and answered.

If you want to know why (W-H-Y) PFAL required multiple viewings, I could explain in a relevant thread like ....

 

... Otherwise, your question and comment are off topic here.

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Some books are orange.

 Some people are afraid of their own mind controlling their own mind. Rely not on your understanding. Renew your mind to groupthink. 

 

When engaging in groupthink the individual is making a decision, as in collectivism, to put the group cohesion before oneself.  Maybe fear is involved but I don't think it has to be.

I guess that begs a question, is it always best to put oneself before the group?  Is it always groupthink to put others first?  Is ostracism not a real threat?

If a sense of belonging is a genuine need to be addressed doesn't some form of groupthink become acceptable?  Is there a right or wrong context to groupthink?

The whole Research Department is the idea that The Word is The Bible and it needs to be "dug into".  Which has already been done by VPW.   The groupthink is the individual's and the group's acceptance of that idea?

Renewing your mind is essentially, "Lie to yourself".  Just lie to yourself.  Accept what you don't accept.  Ignore the internal boundaries within yourself.  Scramble the internal world.

If you are lying to yourself, how can you trust yourself?  Are you you anymore?  Do you know you at all?  Who is doing the following?  You or you or they?

The Followers of The Way are liars.  All of them.  

A group of liars where each non-individual is putting the group of liars before themselves.  

 

 

[Nathan_Jr]

3 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

 

When engaging in groupthink the individual is making a decision, as in collectivism, to put the group cohesion before oneself.  Maybe fear is involved but I don't think it has to be.

I guess that begs a question, is it always best to put oneself before the group?  Is it always groupthink to put others first?  Is ostracism not a real threat?

If a sense of belonging is a genuine need to be addressed doesn't some form of groupthink become acceptable?  Is there a right or wrong context to groupthink?

The whole Research Department is the idea that The Word is The Bible and it needs to be "dug into".  Which has already been done by VPW.   The groupthink is the individual's and the group's acceptance of that idea?

Renewing your mind is essentially, "Lie to yourself".  Just lie to yourself.  Accept what you don't accept.  Ignore the internal boundaries within yourself.  Scramble the internal world.

If you are lying to yourself, how can you trust yourself?  Are you you anymore?  Do you know you at all?  Who is doing the following?  You or you or they?

The Followers of The Way are liars.  All of them.  

A group of liars where each non-individual is putting the group of liars before themselves.  

 

 

The eight symptoms of groupthink include an illusion of invulnerability or of the inability to be wrong, the collective rationalization of the group’s decisions, an unquestioned belief in the morality of the group and its choices, stereotyping of the relevant opponents or out-group members, and the presence of “mindguards” who act as barriers to alternative or negative information, as well as self-censorship and an illusion of unanimity. Decision making affected by groupthink neglects possible alternatives and focuses on a narrow number of goals, ignoring the risks involved in a particular decision. It fails to seek out alternative information and is biased in its consideration of that which is available. Once rejected, alternatives are forgotten, and little attention is paid to contingencyplans in case the preferred solution fails.

https://www.britannica.com/science/groupthink
 

The two entries directly following groupthink are persuasion and brainwashing. So, I mean to use the term in the context of cult.

---------

I don't think it is always best to put one's self ahead of the group. I usually put others before myself, to a fault. This is not groupthink. It's selfless generosity guided by something greater than myself or the group.

Ostracism is a real threat when one has given away EVERYTHING to join a cult.

---------

When I was in the corporate world, I saw groupthink as a liability, not an asset. Though I expected my team to to be aligned with certain top line goals and values, I challenged them to be creative and think outside the box to find solutions. "We do it that way because we've always done it that way" is a bullshonta, lazy cop out that I strongly discouraged. (I was the black sheep in a good ol boy culture, but I delivered results that couldn't be denied.)

---------

I understand the need for a sense of belonging, but if one must sacrifice one's individuality, independence and free thought for the group, then one should reconsider belonging to that group.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Nathan_Jr
Gloves

[chockfull]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

Thanks for the link, but 5 pages may be a bit much to search for a tiny factoid like I asked. I had simply HEARD that the book Myth 6M was saying the numbers were exaggerated to influence the UN decision in 1949 to establish Israel.  I simply heard that, was uninterested, and never had the desire to look into it more, and especially not to read the book.  The 5 page thread I just looked at looks like FAR MORE material than I am looking for.   

Has anyone here read that book?

Yes I have read it.  It is largely condemned as anti Semitic and portrays the holocaust numbers and details as inflated for political reasons.  What you heard sounds accurate.  Why?  

[chockfull]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

 

The politics part was only secondary in my theory of why TWI Bookstore had those odd books in the Bookstore. 

My theory is that VPW saw how Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" was seriously misleading Christians with timetables for the Return of Christ BASED ON 1949 being the year of a BIBLICAL PROPHESY being fulfilled.  That fulfillment was the United Nations establishing the modern state of Israel in 1949.

THEN Hal Lindsey says the NEXT Biblical prophecy fulfilled will be ...such and such a scripture on such and such a date.  His whole book was that way.  It was a best seller, and the sequel also, and I think the sequel's sequel.  Christians were running up their credit cards with massive debt based on these predictions. It was a mess.... I hear.  I knew a couple of Hal Lindsey fans back then (1970?) but they were fortunately cautious enough to not be so stupid. But there were newspaper articles of crazy things a few were doing. This is roughly 1970-74.

SOOOOOOOOO,  VPW came out and said that the 1949 prophecy fulfullment was a counterfeit.

THEN, a year or two later came the odd books, myth 6 million and 13 tribe, in the bookstore.

I think that is how it went down circa 1975ish.

I thought it was documented that he subscribed to some conspiracy theory newsletters that provided the source for many of these types of revelations and other recommendations.

[chockfull]

8 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Clockwork Orange is also a book.

Some people are orange.

The use of fear is quite the motivator.

The fear of mind-control is also a motivator.

I do not like green eggs and ham.

I do not like them Sam I am.

[Bolshevik]

4 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

The eight symptoms of groupthink include an illusion of invulnerability or of the inability to be wrong, the collective rationalization of the group’s decisions, an unquestioned belief in the morality of the group and its choices, stereotyping of the relevant opponents or out-group members, and the presence of “mindguards” who act as barriers to alternative or negative information, as well as self-censorship and an illusion of unanimity. Decision making affected by groupthink neglects possible alternatives and focuses on a narrow number of goals, ignoring the risks involved in a particular decision. It fails to seek out alternative information and is biased in its consideration of that which is available. Once rejected, alternatives are forgotten, and little attention is paid to contingencyplans in case the preferred solution fails.

https://www.britannica.com/science/groupthink
 

The two entries directly following groupthink are persuasion and brainwashing. So, I mean to use the term in the context of cult.

---------

I don't think it is always best to put one's self ahead of the group. I usually put others before myself, to a fault. This is not groupthink. It's selfless generosity guided by something greater than myself or the group.

Ostracism is a real threat when one has given away EVERYTHING to join a cult.

---------

When I was in the corporate world, I saw groupthink as a liability, not an asset. Though I expected my team to to be aligned with certain top line goals and values, I challenged them to be creative and think outside the box to find solutions. "We do it that way because we've always done it that way" is a bullshonta, lazy cop out that I strongly discouraged. (I was the black sheep in a good ol boy culture, but I delivered results that couldn't be denied.)

---------

I understand the need for a sense of belonging, but if one must sacrifice one's individuality, independence and free thought for the group, then one should reconsider belonging to that group.

Yeah groupthink doesn't make sense in a cult context.  Culties want the easy route.  It's a fantasy.  It's pleasure island.

I like you used the term sacrifice.  The cult didn't take anything.  Everything was freely given.

 

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

I do not like green eggs and ham.

I do not like them Sam I am.

The use of mind control to reform a criminal ultimately leads to more depravity.

[T-Bone]

5 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The use of mind control to reform a criminal ultimately leads to more depravity.

Reminds me of something my Mom said

two wrongs don't make a right

[Mike]

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

Yes I have read it.  It is largely condemned as anti Semitic and portrays the holocaust numbers and details as inflated for political reasons.  What you heard sounds accurate.  Why?  

THANKS.

Yeah, it was 1949 politics that set up Hal Lindsey with his positive conspiracy theory and calendar for Christ's return.  The books' purpose being in the bookstore was to quash the Lindsey calendar which was screwing with peoples' heads.

The reason I am interested is I'm just trying to get the history details straight. 

Lots of people thought that it was anti-Semitism that those books were in there.  I heard that explanation I offered earlier just once and very long ago, and then never re-surfaced again.  It seemed to be forgotten.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Mike