That is your filter talking. My filter is constructed differently.
I agree. It's your Saint Vic worship filter which blinds you to anything outside your confirmation bias.
22 minutes ago, Mike said:
I now think VPW's several SNT comments on finding manuscripts was one of the ways he documented and tried to explain what was going on with research, ESPECIALLY in the years when the need for research was beginning to terminate
Now, why would she need to explain research that was going to terminate by claiming he would one day find the manuscript to prove himself? Your filter's torturing your reasoning.
22 minutes ago, Mike said:
.
In October 1982, right on Craig's Coronation SNT tape, he said the the research was basically done. That was when the Research Dept was to switch gears, but no one really got it. (Certainly not me; I learned all this many years later.) Once he stepped down as President he could no long control that as easily. So he hinted at things on tape, at a distance.
Do you know how silly this sounds. Basically you're trying to say Saint Vic said, I know I said there were manuscripts out there proving my claims, but research is essentially done, we never found those manuscripts, but I'm right anyway.
Again, you're trying to pour tons of manure on an obvious fault, hoping something beautiful will grow.
"I heard a complaint, circa 1977-78, about the research department from 2 associates or members of that department, just a month or two before they were kicked out of the 7th Corps. They told me that VPW was manipulating things and not doing valid research. "
Sure sounds like what was just documented. It's remarkably straightforward. He appealed to the authority of what was written in IMAGINARY DOCUMENTS. That's "not doing valid research" to say the least. (To say the most, it's champion-level Bullshirting to pull that and get away with it.)
"I heard a complaint, circa 1977-78, about the research department from 2 associates or members of that department, just a month or two before they were kicked out of the 7th Corps. They told me that VPW was manipulating things and not doing valid research. "
Sure sounds like what was just documented. It's remarkably straightforward. He appealed to the authority of what was written in IMAGINARY DOCUMENTS. That's "not doing valid research" to say the least. (To say the most, it's champion-level Bullshirting to pull that and get away with it.)
It all depends on what the goal of the research is.
(A) If the goal is to FIND truths not yet known, using only methods of the senses and logic, then the known manuscripts must be recognized as the only evidence available to work with. Everything must be built on that known evidence.
(B) If the goal is to VERIFY truths already known spiritually, then unknown manuscripts may be sought in that verification.
Of course, method B is not recognized by academia at all. The possibility of spiritually knowing anything like this is denied there totally. In other words the students of the Bible forbid the Author from giving revelation to explain the Bible. They want to do it all themselves.
The fact that the devil was the one who cleverly obscured and scrambled the originals, does not daunt these academia students. They think they can match wits with the devil and win.
*/*/*/*
In the early days of VPW's research he knew he had to start with senses approach, or method (A). But God's assurance to him was that when he did his best and was getting stuck, the revelation would be there to get him over the hump.
As time went by, it became useful to "prove" these little leaps of revelation to others to help them in their believing. Occasionally finding a manuscript that verified what God had told him would make it easier to teach others. It would also help VPW's believing for the next round of research.
There were a few other reasons for this kind of Verification Research being useful.
Something to remember is this. Finding a manuscript that verifies what VPW already had committed to DOES NOT PROVE that VPW was right in that prior commitment. But it does help make it easier to believe.
This is a VERY subtle point that few get.
I pointed it out earlier here today in this thread.
There are ALL KINDS of manuscripts out there and hardly any ways to figure out how valid each one is. It is all guesswork. Sometimes it can be a well educated piece of guesswork. But without revelation, all Biblical research is really guesswork, especially when you factor in that the devil intelligently scrambled things for us.
It all depends on what the goal of the research is.
(A) If the goal is to FIND truths not yet known, using only methods of the senses and logic, then the known manuscripts must be recognized as the only evidence available to work with. Everything must be built on that known evidence.
(B) If the goal is to VERIFY truths already known spiritually, then unknown manuscripts may be sought in that verification.
Of course, method B is not recognized by academia at all. The possibility of spiritually knowing anything like this is denied there totally. In other words the students of the Bible forbid the Author from giving revelation to explain the Bible. They want to do it all themselves.
The fact that the devil was the one who cleverly obscured and scrambled the originals, does not daunt these academia students. They think they can match wits with the devil and win.
*/*/*/*
In the early days of VPW's research he knew he had to start with senses approach, or method (A). But God's assurance to him was that when he did his best and was getting stuck, the revelation would be there to get him over the hump.
As time went by, it became useful to "prove" these little leaps of revelation to others to help them in their believing. Occasionally finding a manuscript that verified what God had told him would make it easier to teach others. It would also help VPW's believing for the next round of research.
There were a few other reasons for this kind of Verification Research being useful.
Something to remember is this. Finding a manuscript that verifies what VPW already had committed to DOES NOT PROVE that VPW was right in that prior commitment. But it does help make it easier to believe.
This is a VERY subtle point that few get.
I pointed it out earlier here today in this thread.
There are ALL KINDS of manuscripts out there and hardly any ways to figure out how valid each one is. It is all guesswork. Sometimes it can be a well educated piece of guesswork. But without revelation, all Biblical research is really guesswork, especially when you factor in that the devil intelligently scrambled things for us.
The great thing about the spiritual realm is that it'll support any lies, rationalizations, or half baked theories you care to muster. Nobody can prove or disprove anything so you can pretty much claim anything, even direct contradictions.
That's why wise people want to see chapter and verse.
Especially, when dealing with someone of Saint Vic's caliber.
The great thing about the spiritual realm is that it'll support any lies, rationalizations, or half baked theories you care to muster.
That's why wise people want to see chapter and verse.
That is correct. Fortunately, I think all of these loose ends that didn't get nailed down by senses verification were few in number, and small in impact. I think chapters and verses were found for most of the big items, if not all.
That is correct. Fortunately, I think all of these loose ends that didn't get nailed down by senses verification were few in number, and small in impact.
You think. So tell me how many and how little? Just were do we start getting away from the bible's integrity? Remember: Add to God's Word and you no longer have God's Word.
23 minutes ago, Mike said:
I think chapters and verses were found for most of the big items, if not all.
BIg, little what's the difference. Blowing off error doesn't make it truth. Wasn't there something about leavens and lumps in the bible?
I think you're making things up again. You just said, Saint Vic said One day we'll find a manuscript proving my claim. Then you said he was stopping research before he found the manuscript.
Your adoration filter is apparently so warped Saint Vic can tell you point blank what he did and you'll still find some excuse to give him a pass.
Once again you prove being correct is more important to you than doing what God says.
Mike, was there EVER a standard against which to measure Victor's hunches?
How do "spiritual" hunches constitute a biblical research ministry, or a teaching ministry claiming to be founded on the "integrity of the Word?"
On what, really, was the fellowship aspect of the organization based?
Didn't Victor, in PFLAP teach something about having a center of reference for learning anything?
Why did he feel compelled to send Cummins to Germany to look for that manuscript in the first place?
I can go as far as relying on "first thoughts" and what a minister FEELS led to do when ministering to a person in need... for example perhaps, of physical healing. But what, besides something mentioned already, a sense of confirmation bias, is a follower of Victor's ministry supposed to rely on when the storms come? Like when a person's core beliefs are challenged? Consider Matthew chapter 13.
Quote
3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
I never understood the verses following 13:10. But since I've written news and a blog, I have learned the REAL reason people use parables is to make it easier for the reader or listener to understand what the writer/speaker actually means. So, why wouldn't Cummins have been tasked with figuring out why Jesus made sense when speaking in parables, but NOT when he answered his disciples' question about his rhetorical methods?
Or perhaps Mike doesn't have an answer and is trying to figure it out as he goes?
That would make sense to me, if true. But if it's not Mike's intent, then yes, he's articulating some rationalization as to how he imagined it took place.
You just said, Saint Vic said One day we'll find a manuscript proving my claim. Then you said he was stopping research before he found the manuscript.
Read it all better, and then you'll see all these things happened over a span of many years.
From the 40s thru 1982 the MAIN goal of the research was to find the truth. At 1982 that mostly was done, and things started shifting to verification research.
You filter for reading me is to look for ways to criticize me, and it filters out too many details when the topic is complicated and changes over a span of several decades.
Once you discover Santa Claus isn't real, you can't ever make yourself believe again, no matter how hard you try. Some people choose, instead, to ignore reality and refuse to believe he isn't real.
Read it all better, and then you'll see all these things happened over a span of many years.
Okay, so? Does that make truth any less so? Does that change God?Like I said you're attemptimg to make a silk purse out of Saint Vic's sow's ear by claiming Saint Vic didn't mean what he said.
45 minutes ago, Mike said:
From the 40s thru 1982 the MAIN goal of the research was to find the truth. At 1982 that mostly was done, and things started shifting to verification research.
So you're trying to tell me truth is finite and God is limited right? What other reason would you have to switch over to "verification" other than you think you found all the truth there is.
One of the things I learned is knowledge is humbling. The more you know; the more you realize you don't know. You could spend your entire life studying a subject and realize you've only scratched the surface, If that's true for the physical realm, how much more for the spiritual realm? And our guidebook to the spiritual realm?
45 minutes ago, Mike said:
You filter for reading me is to look for ways to criticize me, and it filters out too many details when the topic is complicated and changes over a span of several decades.
No I criticize your lapses in reasoning and your adoration confirmation bias which blinds you from seeing Saint Vic for what he really is.
Once you discover Santa Claus isn't real, you can't ever make yourself believe again, no matter how hard you try. Some people choose, instead, to ignore reality and refuse to believe he isn't real.
I believe Santa Claus IS real. A real storybook style fictional character, that is. Humans are ALL about stories. People have told their own stories on GSC, for example, which are not fictional.
Read it all better, and then you'll see all these things happened over a span of many years.
From the 40s thru 1982 the MAIN goal of the research was to find the truth. At 1982 that mostly was done, and things started shifting to verification research.
You filter for reading me is to look for ways to criticize me, and it filters out too many details when the topic is complicated and changes over a span of several decades.
There you go again, Mike.
OWN your own level of communications prowess or awkwardness therein.
Also, please tell us exactly HOW you know "you[r] filter for reading me is to look for ways to..." I suspect you don't necessarily "know" what's in his heart. However, you may be able to guess some of it by interpreting his word choice. Please note that (y)our friend Socrates hasn't stooped himself to telling you that you didn't correctly read what he wrote to you.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, and I figure you have, I find it just a tad irritating when you refuse to own responsibility for your own dang words. However, please let me know if you need any clarification and I will do my best to be more clear.
Once you discover Santa Claus isn't real, you can't ever make yourself believe again, no matter how hard you try. Some people choose, instead, to ignore reality and refuse to believe he isn't real.
Yes, for those who expected (and even demanded subconsciously) that VPW would be their Santa Claus or their goodie-goodie Hollywood Holy Man, a late discovery to the opposite would be devastating and irreversible.
I saw many grads do this in the 1970s, and I often lamented over my more cautious and suspicious nature.
All the while VPW was saying he was unworthy and NOT a goodie-goodie, and that the REAL holy man was Jesus Christ, and the REAL Santa Claus figure was the Father.
It may be that those who locked onto the "Santa VPW" show were the ones who wanted Christ to be absent, so he wouldn't distract from that VPW idol worship that definitely happened a lot.
I would expect that extreme VPW worship was probably more prevalent in the Corps applicant population than in those who held back. Penworks seems to have admitted in her book that she was in this category of quickly locking onto the idea that VPW was the holy man of our time. She was a Corps applicant in heart even before taking the Foundational Class.
I remember that time in history very well. The whole baby boom population was seeking enlightenment and holy men at that time. It had been all the rage since the Beatles went to India, and the Moody Blues pumped it up even more a few years later.
Yes, for those who expected (and even demanded subconsciously) that VPW would be their Santa Claus or their goodie-goodie Hollywood Holy Man, a late discovery to the opposite would be devastating and irreversible.
I saw many grads do this in the 1970s, and I often lamented over my more cautious and suspicious nature.
All the while VPW was saying he was unworthy and NOT a goodie-goodie, and that the REAL holy man was Jesus Christ, and the REAL Santa Claus figure was the Father.
It may be that those who locked onto the "Santa VPW" show were the ones who wanted Christ to be absent, so he wouldn't distract from that VPW idol worship that definitely happened a lot. would expect that it was probably more prevalent in the Corps applicant population than in those who held back.
Nah, respectfully, that's a romantascized and nostalgic point of view that doesnt match reality. Wierwille was a fraud from the beginning and you cant blame his followers for wierwille's or TWI's corruption. By their fruits ye shall know them and its all putrid fruit. What? Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the entire lump?
Edited by OldSkool someday I might learn to spell...but I doubt it
Also, please tell us exactly HOW you know "you[r] filter for reading me is to look for ways to..." I suspect you don't necessarily "know" what's in his heart. However, you may be able to guess some of it by interpreting his word choice. Please note that (y)our friend Socrates hasn't stooped himself to telling you that you didn't correctly read what he wrote to you.
That you are constantly playing gotcha with my words and not trying to understand them tells me that you (and others) have such a filter in place. I feel no need to prove it to anyone. It is extremely obvious to anyone not caught up in it.
I have noted the possibility that I do not write something well the first draft, and that I may have not properly read a recent post from you or So_crates.
I get a lot more people and posts challenging me here than you do. Plus MANY of them are total garbage and are just contextually framed insults. So I gloss over posts when the garbage content is high, or when there are one after another garbage posts all in a row.
Want me to read posts better? Then stop participating in the garbage throwing and stop encouraging others to throw it.
But that is unlikely, seeing the emotional attachments you all have to your anti-idol. So until the garbage barrage ceases, maybe you could be so kind as to tell me exactly which lines you mean, when you say I mis-read something. Maybe I can adequately handle them.
Please consider my apology right this minute for not properly reading a post lately to be of the same quality and intensity as your apology right this minute for years of garbage posting against me.
Nah, respectfully, that's a romantascized and nostalgic point of view that doesnt match reality. Wierwille was a fraud from the beginning and you cant blame his followers for wierwille's or TWI's corruption. By their fruits ye shall know them and its all putrid fruit. What? Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the entire lump?
He was not a fraud. He delivered the goods. You just don't like the messenger that delivered the goods.
I know he delivered the goods because I use them every day with great thanksgiving to God that He tolerates sinners a lot better than sinners like you tolerate sinners.
He was not a fraud. He delivered the goods. You just don't like the messenger that delivered the goods.
I know he delivered the goods because I use them every day with great thanksgiving to God that He tolerates sinners a lot better than sinners like you tolerate sinners.
It all depends on what the goal of the research is.
(A) If the goal is to FIND truths not yet known, using only methods of the senses and logic, then the known manuscripts must be recognized as the only evidence available to work with. Everything must be built on that known evidence.
(B) If the goal is to VERIFY truths already known spiritually, then unknown manuscripts may be sought in that verification.
Of course, method B is not recognized by academia at all. The possibility of spiritually knowing anything like this is denied there totally. In other words the students of the Bible forbid the Author from giving revelation to explain the Bible. They want to do it all themselves.
The fact that the devil was the one who cleverly obscured and scrambled the originals, does not daunt these academia students. They think they can match wits with the devil and win.
*/*/*/*
In the early days of VPW's research he knew he had to start with senses approach, or method (A). But God's assurance to him was that when he did his best and was getting stuck, the revelation would be there to get him over the hump.
As time went by, it became useful to "prove" these little leaps of revelation to others to help them in their believing. Occasionally finding a manuscript that verified what God had told him would make it easier to teach others. It would also help VPW's believing for the next round of research.
There were a few other reasons for this kind of Verification Research being useful.
Something to remember is this. Finding a manuscript that verifies what VPW already had committed to DOES NOT PROVE that VPW was right in that prior commitment. But it does help make it easier to believe.
This is a VERY subtle point that few get.
I pointed it out earlier here today in this thread.
There are ALL KINDS of manuscripts out there and hardly any ways to figure out how valid each one is. It is all guesswork. Sometimes it can be a well educated piece of guesswork. But without revelation, all Biblical research is really guesswork, especially when you factor in that the devil intelligently scrambled things for us.
You're describing confabulation via confirmation bias. You literally decide anything you want, because of your narcissistic paranoia that your adversary is "out there", and decide that whatever you like is evidence.
That's how revelation you describe works. You've given no test that might disprove your claims. You've lowered the basketball hoop and invented a new move. Growth does not happen in the real world without repeated failure and pain. You've provided a painless safe-space for yourself.
Enamoured by the faux-intellectual reasoning, you're blinded to the real world. When tested against reality you can't see failure. You live in a fantasy. Your research produces nothing of value to anyone but yourself.
When VPW received "revelation" he was lying to cover his own cowardness. He was too weak to compete against more competent individuals. So he used "revelation" to f_ck with the heads of overly trusting others. His leverage did not stand on its own. And neither does yours.
He was not a fraud. He delivered the goods. You just don't like the messenger that delivered the goods.
I know he delivered the goods because I use them every day with great thanksgiving to God that He tolerates sinners a lot better than sinners like you tolerate sinners.
Your defense mechanisms are working in overdrive. I never met wierwille so I have nothing to like or dislike, never knew the man. What I attack is his false persona and the decades long cover-up to hide his ACTUAL crimes and malfeasance. That which is crooked cannot be made straight. So while wierwille very well may have repented on his deathbed or before of his sins or not...and I dont care about that one way or another because thats between him and Jesus Christ. His legacy and doctrines are fair game and the fruit left behind is putrid.
You are back to saying wierwille was a great man of God because Mike Almighty says so. Your credibility is nill on account of posts just like this. But please keep posting such ridicoulous garbage. You serve as a repellant for anyone who might get caught in wierwilles web of lies. I wish I had read your posts before giving my life to the way international but GSC didnt exist back then.
You're describing confabulation via confirmation bias. You literally decide anything you want, because of your narcissistic paranoia that your adversary is "out there", and decide that whatever you like is evidence.
That's how revelation you describe works. You've given no test that might disprove your claims. You've lowered the basketball hoop and invented a new move. Growth does not happen in the real world without repeated failure and pain. You've provided a painless safe-space for yourself.
Enamoured by the faux-intellectual reasoning, you're blinded to the real world. When tested against reality you can't see failure. You live in a fantasy. Your research produces nothing of value to anyone but yourself.
When VPW received "revelation" he was lying to cover his own cowardness. He was too weak to compete against more competent individuals. So he used "revelation" to f_ck with the heads of overly trusting others. His leverage did not stand on its own. And neither does yours.
One of the best posts I have read in quite a while. Thanks Bolsh!
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
21
19
16
23
Popular Days
Jan 23
53
Jan 21
26
Jan 3
21
Jan 22
19
Top Posters In This Topic
Mike 21 posts
Bolshevik 19 posts
chockfull 16 posts
OldSkool 23 posts
Popular Days
Jan 23 2023
53 posts
Jan 21 2023
26 posts
Jan 3 2023
21 posts
Jan 22 2023
19 posts
Popular Posts
Bolshevik
You're describing confabulation via confirmation bias. You literally decide anything you want, because of your narcissistic paranoia that your adversary is "out there", and decide that whatever you l
WordWolf
"Someday we’re going to find a manuscript that verifies this." "“We probably won’t find a manuscript in my lifetime that verifies this, but my spiritual awareness tells me what the original has t
Rocky
So_crates
I agree. It's your Saint Vic worship filter which blinds you to anything outside your confirmation bias.
Now, why would she need to explain research that was going to terminate by claiming he would one day find the manuscript to prove himself? Your filter's torturing your reasoning.
Do you know how silly this sounds. Basically you're trying to say Saint Vic said, I know I said there were manuscripts out there proving my claims, but research is essentially done, we never found those manuscripts, but I'm right anyway.
Again, you're trying to pour tons of manure on an obvious fault, hoping something beautiful will grow.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
"I heard a complaint, circa 1977-78, about the research department from 2 associates or members of that department, just a month or two before they were kicked out of the 7th Corps. They told me that VPW was manipulating things and not doing valid research. "
Sure sounds like what was just documented. It's remarkably straightforward. He appealed to the authority of what was written in IMAGINARY DOCUMENTS. That's "not doing valid research" to say the least. (To say the most, it's champion-level Bullshirting to pull that and get away with it.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
It all depends on what the goal of the research is.
(A) If the goal is to FIND truths not yet known, using only methods of the senses and logic, then the known manuscripts must be recognized as the only evidence available to work with. Everything must be built on that known evidence.
(B) If the goal is to VERIFY truths already known spiritually, then unknown manuscripts may be sought in that verification.
Of course, method B is not recognized by academia at all. The possibility of spiritually knowing anything like this is denied there totally. In other words the students of the Bible forbid the Author from giving revelation to explain the Bible. They want to do it all themselves.
The fact that the devil was the one who cleverly obscured and scrambled the originals, does not daunt these academia students. They think they can match wits with the devil and win.
*/*/*/*
In the early days of VPW's research he knew he had to start with senses approach, or method (A). But God's assurance to him was that when he did his best and was getting stuck, the revelation would be there to get him over the hump.
As time went by, it became useful to "prove" these little leaps of revelation to others to help them in their believing. Occasionally finding a manuscript that verified what God had told him would make it easier to teach others. It would also help VPW's believing for the next round of research.
There were a few other reasons for this kind of Verification Research being useful.
Something to remember is this. Finding a manuscript that verifies what VPW already had committed to DOES NOT PROVE that VPW was right in that prior commitment. But it does help make it easier to believe.
This is a VERY subtle point that few get.
I pointed it out earlier here today in this thread.
There are ALL KINDS of manuscripts out there and hardly any ways to figure out how valid each one is. It is all guesswork. Sometimes it can be a well educated piece of guesswork. But without revelation, all Biblical research is really guesswork, especially when you factor in that the devil intelligently scrambled things for us.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
The great thing about the spiritual realm is that it'll support any lies, rationalizations, or half baked theories you care to muster. Nobody can prove or disprove anything so you can pretty much claim anything, even direct contradictions.
That's why wise people want to see chapter and verse.
Especially, when dealing with someone of Saint Vic's caliber.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
That is correct. Fortunately, I think all of these loose ends that didn't get nailed down by senses verification were few in number, and small in impact. I think chapters and verses were found for most of the big items, if not all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
You think. So tell me how many and how little? Just were do we start getting away from the bible's integrity? Remember: Add to God's Word and you no longer have God's Word.
BIg, little what's the difference. Blowing off error doesn't make it truth. Wasn't there something about leavens and lumps in the bible?
I think you're making things up again. You just said, Saint Vic said One day we'll find a manuscript proving my claim. Then you said he was stopping research before he found the manuscript.
Your adoration filter is apparently so warped Saint Vic can tell you point blank what he did and you'll still find some excuse to give him a pass.
Once again you prove being correct is more important to you than doing what God says.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Mike, was there EVER a standard against which to measure Victor's hunches?
How do "spiritual" hunches constitute a biblical research ministry, or a teaching ministry claiming to be founded on the "integrity of the Word?"
On what, really, was the fellowship aspect of the organization based?
Didn't Victor, in PFLAP teach something about having a center of reference for learning anything?
Why did he feel compelled to send Cummins to Germany to look for that manuscript in the first place?
I can go as far as relying on "first thoughts" and what a minister FEELS led to do when ministering to a person in need... for example perhaps, of physical healing. But what, besides something mentioned already, a sense of confirmation bias, is a follower of Victor's ministry supposed to rely on when the storms come? Like when a person's core beliefs are challenged? Consider Matthew chapter 13.
I never understood the verses following 13:10. But since I've written news and a blog, I have learned the REAL reason people use parables is to make it easier for the reader or listener to understand what the writer/speaker actually means. So, why wouldn't Cummins have been tasked with figuring out why Jesus made sense when speaking in parables, but NOT when he answered his disciples' question about his rhetorical methods?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Or perhaps Mike doesn't have an answer and is trying to figure it out as he goes?
That would make sense to me, if true. But if it's not Mike's intent, then yes, he's articulating some rationalization as to how he imagined it took place.
Edited by Rockygrammar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
"truths already known spiritually?" Gosh Mike. Really? How would they have become known in the first place?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Read it all better, and then you'll see all these things happened over a span of many years.
From the 40s thru 1982 the MAIN goal of the research was to find the truth. At 1982 that mostly was done, and things started shifting to verification research.
You filter for reading me is to look for ways to criticize me, and it filters out too many details when the topic is complicated and changes over a span of several decades.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Once you discover Santa Claus isn't real, you can't ever make yourself believe again, no matter how hard you try. Some people choose, instead, to ignore reality and refuse to believe he isn't real.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Okay, so? Does that make truth any less so? Does that change God?Like I said you're attemptimg to make a silk purse out of Saint Vic's sow's ear by claiming Saint Vic didn't mean what he said.
So you're trying to tell me truth is finite and God is limited right? What other reason would you have to switch over to "verification" other than you think you found all the truth there is.
One of the things I learned is knowledge is humbling. The more you know; the more you realize you don't know. You could spend your entire life studying a subject and realize you've only scratched the surface, If that's true for the physical realm, how much more for the spiritual realm? And our guidebook to the spiritual realm?
No I criticize your lapses in reasoning and your adoration confirmation bias which blinds you from seeing Saint Vic for what he really is.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I believe Santa Claus IS real. A real storybook style fictional character, that is. Humans are ALL about stories. People have told their own stories on GSC, for example, which are not fictional.
Edited by RockyLink to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
There you go again, Mike.
OWN your own level of communications prowess or awkwardness therein.
Also, please tell us exactly HOW you know "you[r] filter for reading me is to look for ways to..." I suspect you don't necessarily "know" what's in his heart. However, you may be able to guess some of it by interpreting his word choice. Please note that (y)our friend Socrates hasn't stooped himself to telling you that you didn't correctly read what he wrote to you.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, and I figure you have, I find it just a tad irritating when you refuse to own responsibility for your own dang words. However, please let me know if you need any clarification and I will do my best to be more clear.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Yes, for those who expected (and even demanded subconsciously) that VPW would be their Santa Claus or their goodie-goodie Hollywood Holy Man, a late discovery to the opposite would be devastating and irreversible.
I saw many grads do this in the 1970s, and I often lamented over my more cautious and suspicious nature.
All the while VPW was saying he was unworthy and NOT a goodie-goodie, and that the REAL holy man was Jesus Christ, and the REAL Santa Claus figure was the Father.
It may be that those who locked onto the "Santa VPW" show were the ones who wanted Christ to be absent, so he wouldn't distract from that VPW idol worship that definitely happened a lot.
I would expect that extreme VPW worship was probably more prevalent in the Corps applicant population than in those who held back. Penworks seems to have admitted in her book that she was in this category of quickly locking onto the idea that VPW was the holy man of our time. She was a Corps applicant in heart even before taking the Foundational Class.
I remember that time in history very well. The whole baby boom population was seeking enlightenment and holy men at that time. It had been all the rage since the Beatles went to India, and the Moody Blues pumped it up even more a few years later.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Nah, respectfully, that's a romantascized and nostalgic point of view that doesnt match reality. Wierwille was a fraud from the beginning and you cant blame his followers for wierwille's or TWI's corruption. By their fruits ye shall know them and its all putrid fruit. What? Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the entire lump?
Edited by OldSkoolsomeday I might learn to spell...but I doubt it
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
That you are constantly playing gotcha with my words and not trying to understand them tells me that you (and others) have such a filter in place. I feel no need to prove it to anyone. It is extremely obvious to anyone not caught up in it.
I have noted the possibility that I do not write something well the first draft, and that I may have not properly read a recent post from you or So_crates.
I get a lot more people and posts challenging me here than you do. Plus MANY of them are total garbage and are just contextually framed insults. So I gloss over posts when the garbage content is high, or when there are one after another garbage posts all in a row.
Want me to read posts better? Then stop participating in the garbage throwing and stop encouraging others to throw it.
But that is unlikely, seeing the emotional attachments you all have to your anti-idol. So until the garbage barrage ceases, maybe you could be so kind as to tell me exactly which lines you mean, when you say I mis-read something. Maybe I can adequately handle them.
Please consider my apology right this minute for not properly reading a post lately to be of the same quality and intensity as your apology right this minute for years of garbage posting against me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
He was not a fraud. He delivered the goods. You just don't like the messenger that delivered the goods.
I know he delivered the goods because I use them every day with great thanksgiving to God that He tolerates sinners a lot better than sinners like you tolerate sinners.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
"Ya better watch out.
Ya better not cry.
Ya better not pout.
I'm tellin' you why........."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
You're describing confabulation via confirmation bias. You literally decide anything you want, because of your narcissistic paranoia that your adversary is "out there", and decide that whatever you like is evidence.
That's how revelation you describe works. You've given no test that might disprove your claims. You've lowered the basketball hoop and invented a new move. Growth does not happen in the real world without repeated failure and pain. You've provided a painless safe-space for yourself.
Enamoured by the faux-intellectual reasoning, you're blinded to the real world. When tested against reality you can't see failure. You live in a fantasy. Your research produces nothing of value to anyone but yourself.
When VPW received "revelation" he was lying to cover his own cowardness. He was too weak to compete against more competent individuals. So he used "revelation" to f_ck with the heads of overly trusting others. His leverage did not stand on its own. And neither does yours.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Your defense mechanisms are working in overdrive. I never met wierwille so I have nothing to like or dislike, never knew the man. What I attack is his false persona and the decades long cover-up to hide his ACTUAL crimes and malfeasance. That which is crooked cannot be made straight. So while wierwille very well may have repented on his deathbed or before of his sins or not...and I dont care about that one way or another because thats between him and Jesus Christ. His legacy and doctrines are fair game and the fruit left behind is putrid.
You are back to saying wierwille was a great man of God because Mike Almighty says so. Your credibility is nill on account of posts just like this. But please keep posting such ridicoulous garbage. You serve as a repellant for anyone who might get caught in wierwilles web of lies. I wish I had read your posts before giving my life to the way international but GSC didnt exist back then.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
One of the best posts I have read in quite a while. Thanks Bolsh!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.