Oh, and since, sometimes, there's people who fog an issue by misplacing where the burden of proof lies in a discussion, there's a thread on Burden of Proof-
Hi T-Bone, do you or anyone else know of someone who has had a different experience than the above when they first began to speak in tongues? Do you know of people who spoke in tongues following vp's instructions, but who later realized it wasn't genuine?
I never followed wierwilles instructions on speaking in tongues. Once I saw it in scripture I decided to give it a whirl. It happened instatanesously. Im more than willing to submit a sample to a language expert at any point in time. I wanna know for myself...nothing to prove to GSC.
The people who witnessed to me proceeded to have a believers meeting right then and there, so I was exposed to it from the start. I had never heard anything about it before that. However, I had taken some acting classes and had heard people imitate foreign languages. I went to a couple of twig fellowships and saw more believers meetings. About a week later, I had a rather emotional personal experience and, while I was by myself, I spoke in tongues out loud. Then, at the next twig meeting, the person leading the meeting asked for someone to speak in tongues and interpret, so I did. It drew some rather puzzled responses. I hadn't had the class yet. I'm not sure if I even had a Bible. I took the class maybe 2 or 3 weeks after that. (It was over 50 years ago, so my memory may be foggy on the details.) I'm currently a casual language learner. It's really opened my eyes to the complexities of human communication. I no longer think of speaking in tongues as anything mystical or spiritual or however you care to phrase it. It's just something you can do if you lower your inhibitions.
Hi T-Bone, do you or anyone else know of someone who has had a different experience than the above when they first began to speak in tongues? Do you know of people who spoke in tongues following vp's instructions, but who later realized it wasn't genuine?
In my HS church youth group a guy who was a year older and a mentor to me went to an Oral Robert’s evangelistic meeting. There he spoke in tongues for the first time. He came home and privately led me according to how he was taught. I did it. It was just praying and doing it not all the speech mechanics BS.
This led me to search for people with knowledge about it. I would say at least half the pastors in my denomination did not believe in it or do it. My home church pastor had a Tuesday night prayer meeting where people did SIT and interpretation but it was another person interpreting not the directive for the same person to interpret. I still feel that is a more accurate handling of it than TWI.
When I met the TWI folks they talked up SIT so much that it impressed me as they actually knew about it. The pastor I was working with then did not. So I decided to take PFAL over his objections.
All the logic of mechanical instruction didn’t get to me because I had already done it.
So some curiosity over gifts of the spirit and a false display of scriptural knowledge on it hooked me into TWI for all of my youth.
Since leaving TWI and thru some of our debate type discussions here I came to the inevitable conclusion that it is easily faked.
For that reason I have just relegated it to my private prayer life and don’t make a big deal about it. It’s just a form of prayer. Other things matter more.
In my HS church youth group a guy who was a year older and a mentor to me went to an Oral Robert’s evangelistic meeting. There he spoke in tongues for the first time. He came home and privately led me according to how he was taught. I did it. It was just praying and doing it not all the speech mechanics BS.
This led me to search for people with knowledge about it. I would say at least half the pastors in my denomination did not believe in it or do it. My home church pastor had a Tuesday night prayer meeting where people did SIT and interpretation but it was another person interpreting not the directive for the same person to interpret. I still feel that is a more accurate handling of it than TWI.
When I met the TWI folks they talked up SIT so much that it impressed me as they actually knew about it. The pastor I was working with then did not. So I decided to take PFAL over his objections.
All the logic of mechanical instruction didn’t get to me because I had already done it.
So some curiosity over gifts of the spirit and a false display of scriptural knowledge on it hooked me into TWI for all of my youth.
Since leaving TWI and thru some of our debate type discussions here I came to the inevitable conclusion that it is easily faked.
For that reason I have just relegated it to my private prayer life and don’t make a big deal about it. It’s just a form of prayer. Other things matter more.
That’s a big deal, Chockfull!
What matters more to me is getting down to the essential nuts and bolts of something. Everyone is entitled to their own takeaways.
Open honest discussions like this are one of the great things I love about Grease Spot Cafe! There’s a lot to be said for the peaceful coexistence of diversity.
Makes me think of a vacation experience. It’s always interesting when we talk to other vacationers. People go to the same place for similar reasons and different reasons. A metaphor rich adventure for life’s journey.
Now tourist traps are something to be avoided. Cults and opportunistic types just want your money…good natured seasoned travelers alert others about that stuff too.
Thanks so much for showing all the threads - I really appreciate it. I have found the many different discussions on GSC to be interesting and helpful. Thanks again.
I'm not sure what, specifically, you're looking for, but it should be there somewhere.
Thanks WordWolf - I had forgotten about this website. It did have what I was looking for under the Letter and Questions page. I've posted the part below. (the underlining is mine)
Q. I have discovered several errors in The Way and have begun to discard some of its practices. The Way emphasizes speaking in tongues so heavily that I wonder if I should stop this, but I believe the Bible does not condemn it. What should I do?
A. There is room for difference of opinion on this question, but consider this: Most Way members were committed believers before they were led astray. The Apostle Paul presents an excellent description of this in his second letter to the Corinthian church:
"I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough... Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ" (II Corinthians 11:1-4, 11-13).
Return to the practice you had before joining the Way. If speaking in tongues was beneficial, then continue it if you wish. If, however, you began speaking in tongues during Power for Abundant Living or under Way tutelage, then do not continue this practice, because The Way is promoting a "different spirit" and counterfeit manifestations, as 2 Corinthians 11 describes. One finds evangelical believers who speak in tongues and others who do not.
I don't know if I agree with him or not. I do continue to SIT the same way as when I first started at the end of the pfal class. Thankfully a lot of info has been shared with me recently on this thread so I want to go through it and consider everything.
Hi T-Bone, do you or anyone else know of someone who has had a different experience than the above when they first began to speak in tongues? Do you know of people who spoke in tongues following vp's instructions, but who later realized it wasn't genuine?
I can't remember learning to SIT, just like I can't remember learning to walk or talk. I must have just picked it up when I was very small.
During children's fellowships, there was an unspoken game to fake it. You got caught. It was funny.
Children can tell who's faking Speaking in Tongues.
As I grew older the more I resented it. I hated it. I would break a sweat in Fellowship at the idea of manifestations. When it came to manifestations, I'd rather be hit with a spoon.
There's something twisted about Speaking in Tongues, or telling yourself some higher power giving you this ability.
Since the feeling is subjective, nobody has reason to take your doubts seriously.
I can't remember learning to SIT, just like I can't remember learning to walk or talk. I must have just picked it up when I was very small.
During children's fellowships, there was an unspoken game to fake it. You got caught. It was funny.
Children can tell who's faking Speaking in Tongues.
As I grew older the more I resented it. I hated it. I would break a sweat in Fellowship at the idea of manifestations. When it came to manifestations, I'd rather be hit with a spoon.
There's something twisted about Speaking in Tongues, or telling yourself some higher power giving you this ability.
Since the feeling is subjective, nobody has reason to take your doubts seriously.
I take everything you say about your years as a child to heart. My own son grew up in twi until we left when he was 8 years old. Your post sparked a small memory that my son did speak in tongues and might even have interpreted. I don't recall teaching him about this though. He did attend children's fellowship at the Rock of Ages for quite a few years. Maybe he saw other kids doing it there. I'll have to ask him what he remembers.
Your experiences growing up in twi are so different from mine and my children's. You were quite close to everything going on while we lived in a different country where twi was very small compared to the states and we never went into the Corps. My heart goes out to you for what you went through . Thanks for sharing the above.
I take everything you say about your years as a child to heart. My own son grew up in twi until we left when he was 8 years old. Your post sparked a small memory that my son did speak in tongues and might even have interpreted. I don't recall teaching him about this though. He did attend children's fellowship at the Rock of Ages for quite a few years. Maybe he saw other kids doing it there. I'll have to ask him what he remembers.
Your experiences growing up in twi are so different from mine and my children's. You were quite close to everything going on while we lived in a different country where twi was very small compared to the states and we never went into the Corps. My heart goes out to you for what you went through . Thanks for sharing the above.
FYI as a teen I jumped between states during the year each year. I was intimately familiar with multiple Limbs at the same time for years. I witnessed many parents trying to figure out how to "bring their kids back". My own parents were in communication with multiple Limb leaders to "keep me in check" as they were often in another state for months. I ended up in New Knoxville, Ohio to try and sort out the infinite conflicts.
FYI as a teen I jumped between states during the year each year. I was intimately familiar with multiple Limbs at the same time for years. I witnessed many parents trying to figure out how to "bring their kids back". My own parents were in communication with multiple Limb leaders to "keep me in check" as they were often in another state for months. I ended up in New Knoxville, Ohio to try and sort out the infinite conflicts.
Thanks for your reply Bolshevik. I can assume, going by your posts on GSC, that going (or being sent) to New Knoxville under those conditions was anything but healing for you. It probably did isolate you more under the guise of twi keeping you under their wing.
twi's GP = God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out.
That people in twi operated the spirit was demonstrated when they were "called upon" by leaders to SIT and interpret or to prophesy which we immediately did.
I remember very little from the Intermediate or Advanced classes. How was it taught that we should operate the other 6 manifestations? Didn't we have to ask God or wait to receive a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom before we could use faith to do gifts of healings ,working of miracles and discerning of spirits.
So why could we always do the first 3 whenever somebody asked us in a believer's meeting but not the other 6 should somebody ask (like someone on their death bed)? This doesn't make sense if it's the same GP for all 9 all the time, or maybe I'm just missing something.
(This is assuming people are still called upon to manifest in a believer's meeting. Maybe they've done away with this.)
twi's GP = God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out.
That people in twi operated the spirit was demonstrated when they were "called upon" by leaders to SIT and interpret or to prophesy which we immediately did.
I remember very little from the Intermediate or Advanced classes. How was it taught that we should operate the other 6 manifestations? Didn't we have to ask God or wait to receive a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom before we could use faith to do gifts of healings ,working of miracles and discerning of spirits.
So why could we always do the first 3 whenever somebody asked us in a believer's meeting but not the other 6 should somebody ask (like someone on their death bed)? This doesn't make sense if it's the same GP for all 9 all the time, or maybe I'm just missing something.
(This is assuming people are still called upon to manifest in a believer's meeting. Maybe they've done away with this.)
That's what other programs are sold for.
You are at some point expected to use all 9 all the time. Usually in the form of spiritualizing basic intuition, common sense, hyper-vigilance, OCD behaviors, and dooms-day prepper foresight.
Can the GP and the story of the 1942 promise both be true?
It seems the 1942 promise violates the GP. The 1942 promise is a fives-senses, natural, old-man experience -- "...audibly, just like I'm talking to you..." The 1942 promise relies on one's own understanding. Does this glove fit?
Can the GP and the story of the 1942 promise both be true?
It seems the 1942 promise violates the GP. The 1942 promise is a fives-senses, natural, old-man experience -- "...audibly, just like I'm talking to you..." The 1942 promise relies on one's own understanding. Does this glove fit?
I guess that wasn't REALLY God talking to victor.
One way the glove fits is via phenomenon.
God can go above and beyond and around and through and do loop de loops and BAM! It all fits now.
Can the GP and the story of the 1942 promise both be true?
It seems the 1942 promise violates the GP. The 1942 promise is a fives-senses, natural, old-man experience -- "...audibly, just like I'm talking to you..." The 1942 promise relies on one's own understanding. Does this glove fit?
You are at some point expected to use all 9 all the time. Usually in the form of spiritualizing basic intuition, common sense, hyper-vigilance, OCD behaviors, and dooms-day prepper foresight.
(I might just have one, possibly two of the above .)
Seriously though - no GP is taught or needed in the other programs (or classes)?
God can go above and beyond and around and through and do loop de loops and BAM! It all fits now.
Renew your mind.
30 minutes ago, OldSkool said:
When I add your posts together the solution is mathematically exact. Like a duck. Ducks don't REALLY wear gloves. This is just a tremendous kernel. Mmmph.
But I still can't find excellor in any dictionary.
Phenomena was often wheeled out as a handy dandy off-ramp, even though Wierwille taught in the Advanced Class that God only used it as a last resort when there was no one "in fellowship" enough to receive revelation. By sheer logic, this alone disqualifies his snowstorm story. Unless, of course, you're open to accepting he was out of fellowship at the time. Not good either way.
Phenomena was often wheeled out as a handy dandy off-ramp, even though Wierwille taught in the Advanced Class that God only used it as a last resort when there was no one "in fellowship" enough to receive it. By sheer logic, this alone disqualifies his snowstorm story. Unless, of course, you're open to accepting he was out of fellowship at the time. Not good either way.
I remember people would put a finger in another's face and say "You're out of fellowship"
Similar to "Where's you believing", "Spiritual check-up", "Off The Word", "Renew Your Mind" . . . man, there was a whole Insult-Speak
I guess when that happens you could point back and say, "That's phenomenal!"
Speaking for myself - I realized I had faked it after I left TWI…in high school I used to do impressions of other languages for the amusement of my friends…at session 12 of the class I followed the instructions- move my lips , tongue mouth but don’t think about what is said. It was just like my high school schtick- a mix of Russian and Asian sounding gibberish.
Previously I replied to your post by saying, "This is both a bit funny and sad at the same time." I've since been reading the "Questioning SIT" thread and I think I have a better understanding of what you are saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside. From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.
It's like so many things talked about on GSC, it's after one leaves twi with all its hype and the rose-colored glasses are finally removed that we are free to question once again whether things were true/real for us or not - like "did I fake speaking in tongues."
This is not a bit funny at all and though we might be sad, mad or hurt to realize we'd been tricked, cheated or deceived, I'm learning that truth does bring freedom.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
43
56
44
67
Popular Days
Jan 3
56
Jan 12
47
Jan 13
44
Jan 4
44
Top Posters In This Topic
T-Bone 43 posts
Bolshevik 56 posts
OldSkool 44 posts
Charity 67 posts
Popular Days
Jan 3 2023
56 posts
Jan 12 2023
47 posts
Jan 13 2023
44 posts
Jan 4 2023
44 posts
Popular Posts
Charity
Reading twi's article both was emotionally and physically sickening. It so reinforced the doctrinal and practical errors that robbed believers of having a personal relationship with God and Jesus Chr
Bolshevik
Rocky
Who among you (or us) might be strategic thinkers? Was Victor Wierwille a strategic thinker? (not necessarily a rhetorical question) Is Mike a strategic thinker? (rhetorical questi
WordWolf
Oh, and since, sometimes, there's people who fog an issue by misplacing where the burden of proof lies in a discussion, there's a thread on Burden of Proof-
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24437-burden-of-proof/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
I never followed wierwilles instructions on speaking in tongues. Once I saw it in scripture I decided to give it a whirl. It happened instatanesously. Im more than willing to submit a sample to a language expert at any point in time. I wanna know for myself...nothing to prove to GSC.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
The people who witnessed to me proceeded to have a believers meeting right then and there, so I was exposed to it from the start. I had never heard anything about it before that. However, I had taken some acting classes and had heard people imitate foreign languages. I went to a couple of twig fellowships and saw more believers meetings. About a week later, I had a rather emotional personal experience and, while I was by myself, I spoke in tongues out loud. Then, at the next twig meeting, the person leading the meeting asked for someone to speak in tongues and interpret, so I did. It drew some rather puzzled responses. I hadn't had the class yet. I'm not sure if I even had a Bible. I took the class maybe 2 or 3 weeks after that. (It was over 50 years ago, so my memory may be foggy on the details.) I'm currently a casual language learner. It's really opened my eyes to the complexities of human communication. I no longer think of speaking in tongues as anything mystical or spiritual or however you care to phrase it. It's just something you can do if you lower your inhibitions.
.
Edited by waysiderwording
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
In my HS church youth group a guy who was a year older and a mentor to me went to an Oral Robert’s evangelistic meeting. There he spoke in tongues for the first time. He came home and privately led me according to how he was taught. I did it. It was just praying and doing it not all the speech mechanics BS.
This led me to search for people with knowledge about it. I would say at least half the pastors in my denomination did not believe in it or do it. My home church pastor had a Tuesday night prayer meeting where people did SIT and interpretation but it was another person interpreting not the directive for the same person to interpret. I still feel that is a more accurate handling of it than TWI.
When I met the TWI folks they talked up SIT so much that it impressed me as they actually knew about it. The pastor I was working with then did not. So I decided to take PFAL over his objections.
All the logic of mechanical instruction didn’t get to me because I had already done it.
So some curiosity over gifts of the spirit and a false display of scriptural knowledge on it hooked me into TWI for all of my youth.
Since leaving TWI and thru some of our debate type discussions here I came to the inevitable conclusion that it is easily faked.
For that reason I have just relegated it to my private prayer life and don’t make a big deal about it. It’s just a form of prayer. Other things matter more.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
That’s a big deal, Chockfull!
What matters more to me is getting down to the essential nuts and bolts of something. Everyone is entitled to their own takeaways.
Open honest discussions like this are one of the great things I love about Grease Spot Cafe! There’s a lot to be said for the peaceful coexistence of diversity.
Makes me think of a vacation experience. It’s always interesting when we talk to other vacationers. People go to the same place for similar reasons and different reasons. A metaphor rich adventure for life’s journey.
Now tourist traps are something to be avoided. Cults and opportunistic types just want your money…good natured seasoned travelers alert others about that stuff too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Thanks so much for showing all the threads - I really appreciate it. I have found the many different discussions on GSC to be interesting and helpful. Thanks again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Thanks WordWolf - I had forgotten about this website. It did have what I was looking for under the Letter and Questions page.
I've posted the part below. (the underlining is mine)
Q. I have discovered several errors in The Way and have begun to discard some of its practices. The Way emphasizes speaking in tongues so heavily that I wonder if I should stop this, but I believe the Bible does not condemn it. What should I do?
A. There is room for difference of opinion on this question, but consider this: Most Way members were committed believers before they were led astray. The Apostle Paul presents an excellent description of this in his second letter to the Corinthian church:
"I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough... Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ" (II Corinthians 11:1-4, 11-13).
Return to the practice you had before joining the Way. If speaking in tongues was beneficial, then continue it if you wish. If, however, you began speaking in tongues during Power for Abundant Living or under Way tutelage, then do not continue this practice, because The Way is promoting a "different spirit" and counterfeit manifestations, as 2 Corinthians 11 describes. One finds evangelical believers who speak in tongues and others who do not.
I don't know if I agree with him or not. I do continue to SIT the same way as when I first started at the end of the pfal class. Thankfully a lot of info has been shared with me recently on this thread so I want to go through it and consider everything.
Edited by CharityLink to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Thank you to everyone who shared their experiences and knowledge about SIT. You are all wonderful!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I can't remember learning to SIT, just like I can't remember learning to walk or talk. I must have just picked it up when I was very small.
During children's fellowships, there was an unspoken game to fake it. You got caught. It was funny.
Children can tell who's faking Speaking in Tongues.
As I grew older the more I resented it. I hated it. I would break a sweat in Fellowship at the idea of manifestations. When it came to manifestations, I'd rather be hit with a spoon.
There's something twisted about Speaking in Tongues, or telling yourself some higher power giving you this ability.
Since the feeling is subjective, nobody has reason to take your doubts seriously.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
I take everything you say about your years as a child to heart. My own son grew up in twi until we left when he was 8 years old. Your post sparked a small memory that my son did speak in tongues and might even have interpreted. I don't recall teaching him about this though. He did attend children's fellowship at the Rock of Ages for quite a few years. Maybe he saw other kids doing it there. I'll have to ask him what he remembers.
Your experiences growing up in twi are so different from mine and my children's. You were quite close to everything going on while we lived in a different country where twi was very small compared to the states and we never went into the Corps. My heart goes out to you for what you went through
. Thanks for sharing the above.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
FYI as a teen I jumped between states during the year each year. I was intimately familiar with multiple Limbs at the same time for years. I witnessed many parents trying to figure out how to "bring their kids back". My own parents were in communication with multiple Limb leaders to "keep me in check" as they were often in another state for months. I ended up in New Knoxville, Ohio to try and sort out the infinite conflicts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Thanks for your reply Bolshevik. I can assume, going by your posts on GSC, that going (or being sent) to New Knoxville under those conditions was anything but healing for you. It probably did isolate you more under the guise of twi keeping you under their wing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
twi's GP = God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out.
That people in twi operated the spirit was demonstrated when they were "called upon" by leaders to SIT and interpret or to prophesy which we immediately did.
I remember very little from the Intermediate or Advanced classes. How was it taught that we should operate the other 6 manifestations? Didn't we have to ask God or wait to receive a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom before we could use faith to do gifts of healings ,working of miracles and discerning of spirits.
So why could we always do the first 3 whenever somebody asked us in a believer's meeting but not the other 6 should somebody ask (like someone on their death bed)? This doesn't make sense if it's the same GP for all 9 all the time, or maybe I'm just missing something.
(This is assuming people are still called upon to manifest in a believer's meeting. Maybe they've done away with this.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
That's what other programs are sold for.
You are at some point expected to use all 9 all the time. Usually in the form of spiritualizing basic intuition, common sense, hyper-vigilance, OCD behaviors, and dooms-day prepper foresight.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Can the GP and the story of the 1942 promise both be true?
It seems the 1942 promise violates the GP. The 1942 promise is a fives-senses, natural, old-man experience -- "...audibly, just like I'm talking to you..." The 1942 promise relies on one's own understanding. Does this glove fit?
I guess that wasn't REALLY God talking to victor.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
One way the glove fits is via phenomenon.
God can go above and beyond and around and through and do loop de loops and BAM! It all fits now.
Renew your mind.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
(I might just have one, possibly two of the above
.)
Seriously though - no GP is taught or needed in the other programs (or classes)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
When I add your posts together the solution is mathematically exact. Like a duck. Ducks don't REALLY wear gloves. This is just a tremendous kernel. Mmmph.
But I still can't find excellor in any dictionary.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Phenomena was often wheeled out as a handy dandy off-ramp, even though Wierwille taught in the Advanced Class that God only used it as a last resort when there was no one "in fellowship" enough to receive revelation. By sheer logic, this alone disqualifies his snowstorm story. Unless, of course, you're open to accepting he was out of fellowship at the time. Not good either way.
Edited by waysiderwording
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I remember people would put a finger in another's face and say "You're out of fellowship"
Similar to "Where's you believing", "Spiritual check-up", "Off The Word", "Renew Your Mind" . . . man, there was a whole Insult-Speak
I guess when that happens you could point back and say, "That's phenomenal!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Soooooooo, excellor is just a made up word like lo shonta?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Previously I replied to your post by saying, "This is both a bit funny and sad at the same time." I've since been reading the "Questioning SIT" thread and I think I have a better understanding of what you are saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside. From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.
It's like so many things talked about on GSC, it's after one leaves twi with all its hype and the rose-colored glasses are finally removed that we are free to question once again whether things were true/real for us or not - like "did I fake speaking in tongues."
This is not a bit funny at all and though we might be sad, mad or hurt to realize we'd been tricked, cheated or deceived, I'm learning that truth does bring freedom.
Edited by CharityLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.